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Top 2GNT Technical Performance/Engine Engine Management Systems & Controllers topic #5700
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Subject: "MS2 - Stalling After Start (No Idle)" 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | Previous topic | Next topic
RfOeCnKdOeNrMay-05-13 03:16 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2006
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#5700, "MS2 - Stalling After Start (No Idle)"


          

Hey Guys,

So I finally got Megasquirt to start my car! Thanks to a distress call to Marc (Bullett) it turns out the car was not starting because the wires to the coil pack were reveresed.

Well, I finally got it started using Symtech's 420A base map. I am using MS2/Extra v3.2.4.

The only thing I changed were the required fuel and injector settings.

The car turns over now and runs for about 2 or 3 seconds before stalling. If I hit the throttle a bit here and there I could keep it alive for a little long but not much more.

Here are my log and msq files.... (I might have throttled during the log).


https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B22tb0XxveQ8UlBOY1dkT3FNbGM/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B22tb0XxveQ8VDNpU1huR2FSM0E/edit?usp=sharing

Any ideas?!

/

1996 Eclipse RS-Turbo

  

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Replies to this topic: Pages 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12
RfOeCnKdOeNrMay-05-13 03:17 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2006
259 posts,
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#5701, "RE: MS2 - Stalling After Start (No Idle)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Oh yeah.. I have a built bottom end (0.020 over) and 83 lb/hour Low Z injectors.

/

1996 Eclipse RS-Turbo

  

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SilvrEclipsMay-07-13 05:55 PM
Member since Nov 27th 2007
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#5702, "RE: MS2 - Stalling After Start (No Idle)"
In response to Reply # 1


          

Just a few things I noticed quick when looking at the log, you need to calibrate you TPS. Also you are extremely lean which is probably why you are stalling out. Make sure your req fuel is set correctly and then if add some fuel to the map to try and keep the car running. Also check your WBo2 calibration to the gauge to make sure MS is reading the same number. Remember to check at a rich and lean point. Check around 11.0 and around 18.0

98 Eclipse GS Turbo
Built motor - MS2 - Holset hy35 - Zoom Stg 4 Clutch - 57.5mm TB - ARP Headstuds - Turbonetics wastegate - 3" Turbo back - FMIC - Greddy RZ BOV - Walbro 255 - 650cc Injectors - Fidanza Flywheel - Cobra calipers w/ 13" Rotors - Oil Cooler - DevilsOwn meth injection

1981 Chevy Scottsdale
1987 Nissan 300zx - Chump Car
2001 BMW 325i

  

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RfOeCnKdOeNrMay-07-13 07:12 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2006
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#5703, "RE: MS2 - Stalling After Start (No Idle)"
In response to Reply # 2


          

Originally posted by SilvrEclips
Just a few things I noticed quick when looking at the log, you need to calibrate you TPS. Also you are extremely lean which is probably why you are stalling out. Make sure your req fuel is set correctly and then if add some fuel to the map to try and keep the car running. Also check your WBo2 calibration to the gauge to make sure MS is reading the same number. Remember to check at a rich and lean point. Check around 11.0 and around 18.0


Thanks for looking at it! I won't be able to try some new things for at least a week (the car is at my parents house) but I will look into those.

The required fuel was calculated by TunerStudio. I used 2000cc, 83 lb/hr flow, and a 14.7 AFR. It calculated a required fuel of 3.8?? Is that not right? Is it safe to tweak that number or would you suggest I change the VE table below say 2,000 RPM to richen it a bit?

Also, I know I calibrated my TPS before logging this so perhaps what you are seeing is me throttling to try and keep it alive? Or are you saying that because the minimum is reading as 9%?


/

1996 Eclipse RS-Turbo

  

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RfOeCnKdOeNrMay-07-13 07:16 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2006
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#5704, "RE: MS2 - Stalling After Start (No Idle)"
In response to Reply # 3


          

Also,

I compared the stock 420A base map from Symtech with some other 420a msq files in the depository and noticed each one had a different setting for the "sensor calibration". Right now mine is set to MPX4250... Will these settings have an effect on the idle/issue?

/

1996 Eclipse RS-Turbo

  

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SilvrEclipsMay-08-13 07:54 AM
Member since Nov 27th 2007
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#5705, "RE: MS2 - Stalling After Start (No Idle)"
In response to Reply # 4


          

Yes the throttle should be close to 0% and 100% on the min. This will effect things like over run and closed loop idle if you choose to use those features.

I would leave the required fuel where it set it to and adjust your VE table. If you are running a base map I would scale the whole map when you make changes to try and richen it up. Then once you get the car idling you can see where you need to make changes to.

That sensor is your map sensor, you need to set it to whatever sensor is on the board.

98 Eclipse GS Turbo
Built motor - MS2 - Holset hy35 - Zoom Stg 4 Clutch - 57.5mm TB - ARP Headstuds - Turbonetics wastegate - 3" Turbo back - FMIC - Greddy RZ BOV - Walbro 255 - 650cc Injectors - Fidanza Flywheel - Cobra calipers w/ 13" Rotors - Oil Cooler - DevilsOwn meth injection

1981 Chevy Scottsdale
1987 Nissan 300zx - Chump Car
2001 BMW 325i

  

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Gruff511May-09-13 08:54 AM
Member since Aug 06th 2011
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#5706, "RE: MS2 - Stalling After Start (No Idle)"
In response to Reply # 5


          

Your running too lean and your Throttle position needs to be calibrated properly. Make sure your WBO2 sensor is calibrated correctly since its only reading Lean even when your PW go up. if the O2 is reading correctly then you need more fuel.

Also what are you using to control idle?

Have you set your injector dead time correctly also? that will screw up the injector PW if not set properly.

  

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Tired2May-15-13 09:39 AM
Member since Sep 23rd 2012
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#5709, "RE: MS2 - Stalling After Start (No Idle)"
In response to Reply # 6
May-15-13 09:42 AM by Tired2

          

My vote is the injector dead time.

Are those high or low Z injectors? If they are low Z, you may not be opening them with enough hold current, and they will not open all the way, so MS thinks it is putting in a lot of fuel when really not much is getting in there.

Also make sure if you are running a fuel pressure other than what the injectors were rated at that you convert the flow over. I think 43.5 is typically used for flow specifications, so if you are running something other than that as your base pressure, convert the flow over to what it will really be. (Calculators online).

Oh yea, and what are you using for idle air control? Mine would start but die in a few seconds until I got my IAC set properly (Stock Stepper Based IAC). You can block it off and crack the throttle blades more to rule that out.



  

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RfOeCnKdOeNrMay-15-13 10:05 AM
Member since Jul 18th 2006
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#5711, "RE: MS2 - Stalling After Start (No Idle)"
In response to Reply # 7


          

Thanks for all the tips guys. I was at my parents briefly the other day and gave it a try. Most of my time was taken up by trying to figure out why my wideband gauge was reading 14.8 for the couple seconds it idled but MS was reading 19. I think it was because I never grounded the wideband directly back to MS. I ran an alligator clip to the ground on the wideband and then to a ground straight back to MS and it looked like it was trying to read similar to the gauge. Unfortunately, the car wont idle long enough to see how close.

I have not touched the IAC setting yet (so they are set to whatever the base map from symtech is).

I will take a look at blocking the IAC and seeing what that does.

I have been reading about injector dead time and A majority of the information I am finding show how to calculate it based on a log (with a graph and etc..)... Can you guys point me to how I can calculate it prior to logging (since the car wont start).

Thanks agaiN!

/

1996 Eclipse RS-Turbo

  

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Tired2May-15-13 10:16 AM
Member since Sep 23rd 2012
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#5712, "RE: MS2 - Stalling After Start (No Idle)"
In response to Reply # 8


          

Are you on High or Low Z Injectors?

I did not buy from symtech, but I believe their guides imply using a pwm idle valve, not a 4 wire stepper like the 420a has stock... you may or may not have the hardware on your board to run the stepper based one.

Additionally, it could be open or closed. If you pull the throttle body off, it is easy to see where the valve is in its cycle, but that is a pain. You can block it with a vacuum plug or some-such, just don't let the plug get sucked in the TB

Some info on Stepper IAC:



I managed to use a trimmed down vacuum plug on the throttle stop to achieve about 7-8% tps when off the throttle. Of course, I disabled all the closed loop idle and such.

  

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RfOeCnKdOeNrMay-15-13 11:03 AM
Member since Jul 18th 2006
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#5713, "RE: MS2 - Stalling After Start (No Idle)"
In response to Reply # 9


          

Originally posted by Tired2
Are you on High or Low Z Injectors? I did not buy from symtech, but I believe their guides imply using a pwm idle valve, not a 4 wire stepper like the 420a has stock... you may or may not have the hardware on your board to run the stepper based one. Additionally, it could be open or closed. If you pull the throttle body off, it is easy to see where the valve is in its cycle, but that is a pain. You can block it with a vacuum plug or some-such, just don't let the plug get sucked in the TB Some info on Stepper IAC: I managed to use a trimmed down vacuum plug on the throttle stop to achieve about 7-8% tps when off the throttle. Of course, I disabled all the closed loop idle and such.


They are Accel Low Z 83lb/h injectors.

Thanks for the information and video!

/

1996 Eclipse RS-Turbo

  

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