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Subject: "Well, lets just say this..."

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siueclipse	Sep-29-04 07:19 PM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77214, "Well, lets just say this..."
Sep-29-04 07:40 PM by siueclipse

I didn't break 400whp. Ill have dyno sheet posted tomorrow along with a few other pictures of the nights adventure. I did borrow my buddies camera, but he didn't leave the data cord for it to pull the images off of it. So, Ill have to wait for tomorrow. Overall they were good whp numbers and great torque numbers.

I will be posting a dyno sheet from 21lbs of boost. We did run 26lbs of boost on PUMP GAS with the HRC portfueler (11.6 AFR). However, the run didn't last long because my lower radiator hose decided to burst half way through the pull after turbo spool. We called it a night after that because it was getting late. Also, we never got around to adjusting the cam gears or doing anything with timing. After we got the radiator hose replaced.. on my way home, I ran 25lbs of boost and it felt damn good. Mental note, do not buy OBX high temp radiator hoses.

Also.. here is my idiot move for the day. When I was doing my pulls, I was doing them in 3rd gear. 3rd gear doesn't compare to 4th gear when it comes to dyno results. I didn't realize... I always do my pulls in 4th.

The map HRC gave with the portfueler definetly needs to be tuned for my setup. I didn't adjust the map at all because it simply doesn't make sense. I had a tuner with me looking at the maps and they didn't make sense to him. This guy tunes RX7's, Hondas, Lambos, just about anything. The map didn't look right to him. Some points were starting lean, going rich, then going lean again. While some points looked like they went rich, got lean, and went rich again. Something isn't right with it, however it does work just fine for high boost.

As far as my old dyno numbers.. I was told that the dyno jet ive been running on had the main unit replaced in it because it was and a quote, "defective". What that means, I dont know because I wasn't told. Something about it either not working or not reporting RPM values. (If you don't believe me, call Slingblade and find out for your self). I did doubt my numbers from the past when comparing them to others which I never did before.

Anyway, we will be going back next week when my buddy's Honda is running so we can get a deal on dyno time. Tonight cost me $200 bux for 3 and a half hours.

Im not even going to say the numbers obtained from tonight. Ill let you see them tomorrow for yourself so nobody gets their panties in a bunch tonight and can actually get some sleep... (mattchew).. lol

Take Care,
James

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RE: Well, lets just say this..., TXTurboGS, Sep-29-04 07:32 PM, #1

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TXTurboGS	Sep-29-04 07:32 PM
Member since Sep 29th 2003 333 posts,

#77215, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 0

25psi on pump gas!! No shit bro. I'm eagerly awaiting the numbers. I wonder why Bill said not to mess around with more than 15psi of boost on pump gas.

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injendsm	Sep-29-04 07:32 PM
Donating 2GNT member 6844 posts,

#77216, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 1

what were the numbers?

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siueclipse	Sep-29-04 07:37 PM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77217, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 1

Originally posted by TXTurboGS
25psi on pump gas!! No shit bro. I'm eagerly awaiting the numbers. I wonder why Bill said not to mess around with more than 15psi of boost on pump gas.

Honestly, timing and knock may have been an issue up there. Don't know cause I didn't have a way to find out.

The numbers could be better.. Lets just put it that way. It seems that the entry level 20g turbo I have looses efficiently quick.

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Steve	Sep-29-04 07:53 PM
Member since Sep 15th 2003 1542 posts,

#77220, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 3

hmmm. Ive been waiting to see a dyno sheet to but never said anything. I admire the setup though..Good luck.

Steve-o
Top secret.

Originally posted by FlyinEsi
I guess I'll just have to live with a 500+ hp AWD 4-banger. emoji

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xtrickedeclipsex	Sep-29-04 08:18 PM
Member since Oct 13th 2003 620 posts,

#77221, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 4

emoji
---------------------------------------

"Oh yea, well...My manifold does cool twisty things"

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420a-Tnthewerks	Sep-29-04 08:29 PM
Member since Jun 11th 2004 2267 posts,

#77222, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 5

i'm gonna guess 340-350. eehhh, 330, eehh, somewhere around there.

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Mattchew	Sep-30-04 04:17 AM
Member since Oct 23rd 2003 340 posts,

#77232, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 3
Sep-30-04 04:27 AM by Mattchew

Originally posted by siueclipse

Originally posted by TXTurboGS 25psi on pump gas!! No shit bro. I'm eagerly awaiting the numbers. I wonder why Bill said not to mess around with more than 15psi of boost on pump gas.

Honestly, timing and knock may have been an issue up there. Don't know cause I didn't have a way to find out. The numbers could be better.. Lets just put it that way. It seems that the entry level 20g turbo I have looses efficiently quick.

Are you talking about the same turbo you have for sale? If so the 20G-N is not the entry level 20G. Hahn has two other models besides that one but none of which are designed to make any more hp than the other. They should all be good for around 400WHP or better. I don't know what kind of numbers you put down but if your not close to 400hp your not outgrowing the turbo yet. Armond made 400hp with the entry level 20G.

No matter what you still have room to grow.

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siueclipse	Sep-30-04 04:25 AM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77235, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 7

Originally posted by Mattchew

Originally posted by siueclipse

Originally posted by TXTurboGS 25psi on pump gas!! No shit bro. I'm eagerly awaiting the numbers. I wonder why Bill said not to mess around with more than 15psi of boost on pump gas.

Honestly, timing and knock may have been an issue up there. Don't know cause I didn't have a way to find out. The numbers could be better.. Lets just put it that way. It seems that the entry level 20g turbo I have looses efficiently quick.

Are you talking about the same turbo you have for sale? If so the 20G-N is not the entry level 20G. Hahn has two other models besides that one but none of which are designed to make any more hp than the other. They should all be good for around 400WHP or better. I don't know what kind of numbers you put down but if your not close to 400hp your not outgrowing the turbo yet. Armond made 400hp with the entry level 20G.

I dont have the 20g-n. Im selling the entry level. This turbo seems to loose efficiency after about 23lbs of boost or something is wrong with the tuning. HRC has 3 models of the 20g turbo, not 2 and there are different sizes of the 20g turbo which work in different fashions.

In about 30 minutes ill have pics and dyno shots on my server.

James

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Mattchew	Sep-30-04 04:33 AM
Member since Oct 23rd 2003 340 posts,

#77237, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 8

Originally posted by siueclipse

Originally posted by Mattchew

Originally posted by siueclipse

Originally posted by TXTurboGS 25psi on pump gas!! No shit bro. I'm eagerly awaiting the numbers. I wonder why Bill said not to mess around with more than 15psi of boost on pump gas.

Honestly, timing and knock may have been an issue up there. Don't know cause I didn't have a way to find out. The numbers could be better.. Lets just put it that way. It seems that the entry level 20g turbo I have looses efficiently quick.

Are you talking about the same turbo you have for sale? If so the 20G-N is not the entry level 20G. Hahn has two other models besides that one but none of which are designed to make any more hp than the other. They should all be good for around 400WHP or better. I don't know what kind of numbers you put down but if your not close to 400hp your not outgrowing the turbo yet. Armond made 400hp with the entry level 20G.

I dont have the 20g-n. Im selling the entry level. This turbo seems to loose efficiency after about 23lbs of boost or something is wrong with the tuning. HRC has 3 models of the 20g turbo, not 2 and there are different sizes of the 20g turbo which work in different fashions. In about 30 minutes ill have pics and dyno shots on my server. James

OK, I misread your for sale post, I see now you are going to the 20G-N. When I said 2 models I was referring to the two above the 20G. The 20G-H and the 20G-N. Either way they are just bigger exducer wheels.

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dougie2	Sep-30-04 01:20 AM
Old School 2GNTer 2982 posts,

#77223, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 0

Originally posted by siueclipse
The map HRC gave with the portfueler definetly needs to be tuned for my setup. I didn't adjust the map at all because it simply doesn't make sense. I had a tuner with me looking at the maps and they didn't make sense to him. .... Some points were starting lean, going rich, then going lean again. While some points looked like they went rich, got lean, and went rich again. Something isn't right with it, however it does work just fine for high boost

I had a feeling this would be a problem, with HRC trying to "preprogram" the AIC. I've never heard anything sillier.

Good luck tuning it, the Split Sec software is still very basic but it's confusing as hell!

Doug

Xtreme Performance Services
Race Engines · Transmissions · Turbo Systems · EFI & Tuning · Fabrication · Welding
www.xtremefabrications.com

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Super20G	Sep-30-04 04:51 AM
Old School 2GNTer 2545 posts,

#77238, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 10

Yeah, expecially when they put stuff like

"Just fire the car up, set idle fuel pressure, and drive…Bill has done the hard work for you, no further tuning is necessary!"

But they cover their butt by not sending instructions, haha.

Ohh, and not sending all the parts to do the install, haha.

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siueclipse	Sep-30-04 05:29 AM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77239, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 11

Well, its a good map and does work, just needs fine tuning thats all.

Hey everyone, we are redoing our server this morning at the office so it might be awhile till i get some hosting space going for the pics.

James

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siueclipse	Sep-30-04 05:47 AM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77240, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 0

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Super20G	Sep-30-04 06:24 AM
Old School 2GNTer 2545 posts,

#77241, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 13
Sep-30-04 07:03 AM by Super20G

edit: nm, bass-ackwards thinking emoji What a n*o*o*b thing for me to say, hah

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siueclipse	Sep-30-04 06:29 AM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77242, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 14

Actually.. my AFR is richer than whats optimum. 11.6 is richer than 12.1 (which is where Craig says to be).

James

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dougie2	Sep-30-04 08:04 AM
Old School 2GNTer 2982 posts,

#77245, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 15
Sep-30-04 08:11 AM by dougie2

Originally posted by siueclipse
11.6 is richer than 12.1 (which is where Craig says to be). James

They're pulling timing too, and tuning for drag. You need to be a little richer on the streets esp. without retarding ignition timing.

*edit: I'm sure Mattchew is *Very* thankful for you posting your dyno graphs, even though he isn't saying it. He owes you a kiss *you know where*...lol. Hopefully he can use that data to make 330 wHP. Yay!

Doug

Xtreme Performance Services
Race Engines · Transmissions · Turbo Systems · EFI & Tuning · Fabrication · Welding
www.xtremefabrications.com

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turbo8u	Sep-30-04 08:14 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#77246, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 16

ok so you run 25psi boost and make 330whp with decent air fuel's....and youi claim to have made 380+whp? what were you boosting? 30psi? lmfao...you're still full of shit emoji

nice dyno though, good thing hahn does all your tuning

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

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91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

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djtrickee	Sep-30-04 08:23 AM
Donating 2GNT member 5924 posts,

#77247, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 17

Originally posted by turbo8u
ok so you run 25psi boost and make 330whp with decent air fuel's....and youi claim to have made 380+whp? what were you boosting? 30psi? lmfao...you're still full of shit emoji

nice dyno though, good thing hahn does all your tuning

No silly. He was doing his pulls in 4th gear instead of 3rd. and the dyno was broken. and aliens changed the results. and and and...

.........................................................................................................................

Built. That's All...
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dougie2	Sep-30-04 08:27 AM
Old School 2GNTer 2982 posts,

#77248, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 18

Okay okay okay... let's keep this one on topic.

Doug

Xtreme Performance Services
Race Engines · Transmissions · Turbo Systems · EFI & Tuning · Fabrication · Welding
www.xtremefabrications.com

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DarKReaLity	Sep-30-04 08:27 AM
Donating 2GNT member 934 posts,

#77249, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 17
Sep-30-04 08:28 AM by DarKReaLity

man those drawn out lines makes that dyno sheet look fake...but i believe you this time, i called over there and it's legit. well nice try on the run...you need to tune again but i feel it's the turbo either running out of steam, or them 3rd gear dyno runs. i mean if you have all those mods you have to be atleast 370-400WHP at 25psi. so yeah somethings wrong...or better yet, use some race gas on your next runs. oh and BTW what clutch are you using now?

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siueclipse	Sep-30-04 09:05 AM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77256, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 20

running the stage 4 clutchmasters.

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Mattchew	Sep-30-04 09:06 AM
Member since Oct 23rd 2003 340 posts,

#77257, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 20

I'm not going to get into the old shit but yes it's cool that he posted up A dyno sheet. Why would I have to kiss his ass for posting a sheet 50hp less than he claimed? That would be like giving a trophy for first place to the last guy to cross the finish line.

I WILL however give him the respect for posting his dyno sheets finally. Weather the 382hp was a result of bullshit or a bad dyno it does not matter at this point. Now he has numbers laid down in stone and we can move on. Even if we saw the 382hp dyno sheet at this point it does not matter because we are going forward with this and not backward.

Siueclipe, your car as it sits has the potential to put down high 300 and maybe even clear 400hp. It's going to be a matter of tuning and race gas. Armond never crossed 400hp until he added race gas. Using pump gas to max out hp is a bad idea. Race gas allows that extra buffer for higher boost applications. Sure 400hp on pump would be nice but you should think about getting the most from that turbo before getting rid of it.

And yes, thank you for posting a dyno sheet,

Matt

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siueclipse	Sep-30-04 09:10 AM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77258, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 22

People, please keep in mind that running on a dyno is not a measure of performance. It is only a measure of your tuning. Whatever someone dyno's at, you can expect at least 10whp more on the road.

When we go back we will have the ability to adjust timing if needed, we will have race gas, we will have a modified fuel map and we will be adjusting the cam gears.

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Mattchew	Sep-30-04 09:14 AM
Member since Oct 23rd 2003 340 posts,

#77259, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 23

Originally posted by siueclipse
People, please keep in mind that running on a dyno is not a measure of performance. It is only a measure of your tuning. Whatever someone dyno's at, you can expect at least 10whp more on the road. When we go back we will have the ability to adjust timing if needed, we will have race gas, we will have a modified fuel map and we will be adjusting the cam gears.

Actually real word conditions are going to weigh more on the car than a dyno would. With a dyno jet roller dyno your looking at no real world resistance on the car or even drag from moving through the air. If anything you lose that hp when you go on the road.

Either way those are decent numbers.

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siueclipse	Sep-30-04 09:15 AM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77260, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 24
Sep-30-04 09:17 AM by siueclipse

Actually you dont man. You gain power. On the road you actually gain horsepower because of the outside surroundings.

Example.. Its 80 degrees in the dyno garage. You leave, now you have 50 degree cold air rushing at your intercooler...

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Mattchew	Sep-30-04 09:22 AM
Member since Oct 23rd 2003 340 posts,

#77263, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 25

Originally posted by siueclipse
Actually you dont man. You gain power. Weight of the car within respect to whp doesn't mean much from what I have seen.

How would you gain hp? When your on the road, your pulling the weight of the vehicle vs on a dyno where your just turning the wheels. That's why it does not matter how much a car wieghs when you dyno it. Also when your on the road you have factors such as drag that change the actual load the car is seeing rather than being stationary on a dyno. No offense, but I'm curious to know who told you that.

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siueclipse	Sep-30-04 09:26 AM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77264, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 26
Sep-30-04 09:27 AM by siueclipse

A car will reach its hp no matter what the outside conditions are. It might take it awhile to get to the high horsepower if you take into effect things like drag or wind. In most cases, because of putting a load on the motor, motors tend to perform better or work harder as well.

What about colder air rushing into an intercooler? Doesn't that make power or are intercoolers a waste of money?

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Mattchew	Sep-30-04 09:31 AM
Member since Oct 23rd 2003 340 posts,

#77267, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 27

Originally posted by siueclipse
A car will reach its hp no matter what the outside conditions are. It might take it awhile to get to the high horsepower if you take into effect things like drag or wind. In most cases, because of putting a load on the motor, motors tend to perform better or work harder as well. What about colder air rushing into an intercooler? Doesn't that make power or are intercoolers a waste of money?

If weight and load did not matter than you could run the exact same time at the track whether your car was empty or if you have four people in it. When your not on a dyno your pulling a car vs turning rollers. The dyno does it's best to replicate this environment but dyno jet dyno's are not famous for being the most accurate at this. As for the cooler air, that is what the fans at the dyno are for. Yes you might get more airflow on the open road but the results are not going to be that much greater than a decent cooling fan setup at a dyno. Not to mention the fact that you dyno with your hood open so your releasing a lot of heat that way as well.

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siueclipse	Sep-30-04 09:33 AM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77269, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 28

Originally posted by Mattchew

Originally posted by siueclipse A car will reach its hp no matter what the outside conditions are. It might take it awhile to get to the high horsepower if you take into effect things like drag or wind. In most cases, because of putting a load on the motor, motors tend to perform better or work harder as well. What about colder air rushing into an intercooler? Doesn't that make power or are intercoolers a waste of money?

If weight and load did not matter than you could run the exact same time at the track whether your car was empty or if you have four people in it. When your not on a dyno your pulling a car vs turning rollers. The dyno does it's best to replicate this environment but dyno jet dyno's are not famous for being the most accurate at this. As for the cooler air, that is what the fans at the dyno are for. Yes you might get more airflow on the open road but the results are not going to be that much greater than a decent cooling fan setup at a dyno. Not to mention the fact that you dyno with your hood open so your releasing a lot of heat that way as well.

You are confusing horsepower with inertia and running down the track. Anyone will tell you that fans at a dyno will in no way replicate what you will get on the road. Think about it. Youre last few sentences are absolutely ludacris...

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Mattchew	Sep-30-04 09:45 AM
Member since Oct 23rd 2003 340 posts,

#77275, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 29

Originally posted by siueclipse

Originally posted by Mattchew

Originally posted by siueclipse A car will reach its hp no matter what the outside conditions are. It might take it awhile to get to the high horsepower if you take into effect things like drag or wind. In most cases, because of putting a load on the motor, motors tend to perform better or work harder as well. What about colder air rushing into an intercooler? Doesn't that make power or are intercoolers a waste of money?

If weight and load did not matter than you could run the exact same time at the track whether your car was empty or if you have four people in it. When your not on a dyno your pulling a car vs turning rollers. The dyno does it's best to replicate this environment but dyno jet dyno's are not famous for being the most accurate at this. As for the cooler air, that is what the fans at the dyno are for. Yes you might get more airflow on the open road but the results are not going to be that much greater than a decent cooling fan setup at a dyno. Not to mention the fact that you dyno with your hood open so your releasing a lot of heat that way as well.

You are confusing horsepower with inertia and running down the track. Anyone will tell you that fans at a dyno will in no way replicate what you will get on the road. Think about it. Youre last few sentences are absolutely ludacris...

Your right, I had this backwards. I'm thinking in the world of dyno dynamics vs dyno get. Dyno dynamics tends to simulate real world conditions better than a dyno jet. That is why dyno dynamics numbers tend to be about 17-20% lower. Like you said you will reach the same hp it just may take longer depending on the circumstances. And yes, depending on the conditions of the dyno room the airflow can be better on the road. I'm used to seeing the dynos that have several fans on the car and the bay is open. I am assuming that his dyno jet uses the basic two fan or single blower setup am I right?

If the dyno was setup correctly the only factor that should matter as far as effecting hp would be that you would see more airflow and cooler temps.

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siueclipse	Sep-30-04 09:50 AM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77276, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 30

Well, looks like you assumed too much.

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Mattchew	Sep-30-04 09:51 AM
Member since Oct 23rd 2003 340 posts,

#77278, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 31

Originally posted by siueclipse
Well, looks like you assumed too much.

What do yo mean?

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Mattchew	Sep-30-04 09:55 AM
Member since Oct 23rd 2003 340 posts,

#77281, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 32

Also looking at slingblades website it looks like they use a single blower.

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turbo8u	Sep-30-04 09:53 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#77279, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 30

cooler ambient air temps dont mean shit on a car thats intercooled. it does however increase the efficiency of the intercooler to have cooler air flowing over it. its the actual intake air temp in the manifold that matters.

i also thought it was a load bearing dyno, thats all ive ever worked with so maybe you're right

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

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Mattchew	Sep-30-04 09:54 AM
Member since Oct 23rd 2003 340 posts,

#77280, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 34

Originally posted by turbo8u
cooler ambient air temps dont mean shit on a car thats intercooled. it does however increase the efficiency of the intercooler to have cooler air flowing over it. its the actual intake air temp in the manifold that matters. i also thought it was a load bearing dyno, thats all ive ever worked with so maybe you're right

Have you been to Vishnu?

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turbo8u	Sep-30-04 09:19 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#77261, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 23

Originally posted by siueclipse
Whatever someone dyno's at, you can expect at least 10whp more on the road.

hahahahaha emoji

hahahahaha

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

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siueclipse	Sep-30-04 09:21 AM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77262, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 36

Originally posted by turbo8u

Originally posted by siueclipse Whatever someone dyno's at, you can expect at least 10whp more on the road.

hahahahaha emoji

hahahahaha

by your response, im quessing you are doubting what i said. care to explain why?

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turbo8u	Sep-30-04 09:37 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#77271, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 37
Sep-30-04 09:41 AM by turbo8u

Originally posted by siueclipse

Originally posted by turbo8u

Originally posted by siueclipse Whatever someone dyno's at, you can expect at least 10whp more on the road.

hahahahaha emoji

hahahahaha

by your response, im quessing you are doubting what i said. care to explain why?

its hilarious how much you dont know what you're talking about.

tune to an 11.5 afr on a dyno with 23 degrees advance and make say, 300whp....and then bring it on the road and it'll change afr, pull less timing and make less power.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

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siueclipse	Sep-30-04 09:43 AM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77273, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 38

Originally posted by turbo8u

Originally posted by siueclipse

Originally posted by turbo8u

Originally posted by siueclipse Whatever someone dyno's at, you can expect at least 10whp more on the road.

hahahahaha emoji

hahahahaha

by your response, im quessing you are doubting what i said. care to explain why?

its hilarious how much you dont know what you're talking about. tune to an 11.5 afr on a dyno with 23 degrees advance and make say, 300whp....and then bring it on the road and it'll change afr, pull less timing and make less power.

actually, my AFR's last night didn't change much. do you think the car can't adjust?

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DarKReaLity	Sep-30-04 09:28 AM
Donating 2GNT member 934 posts,

#77266, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 36
Sep-30-04 09:30 AM by DarKReaLity

WAIT A MINUTE HOLD UP! everyone look at that graph and tell me i'm blind, but those lines are going over the 350HP mark right? how in the hell is it showing over 350, if it says you made 337??? dyno graphs read max HP and max torque.

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Mattchew	Sep-30-04 09:32 AM
Member since Oct 23rd 2003 340 posts,

#77268, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 40

Originally posted by DarKReaLity
WAIT A MINUTE HOLD UP! everyone look at that graph and tell me i'm blind, but those lines are going over the 350HP mark right? how in the hell is it showing over 350, if it says you made 337??? dyno graphs read max HP and max torque.

No, 350 is the actual top of the dyno sheet.

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SILVERNT	Sep-30-04 09:44 AM
Member since Oct 05th 2002 4543 posts,

#77274, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 41

btw, their date is off at the shop. Its 9/30/04 right now, and its only 2:45 central

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siueclipse	Sep-30-04 09:34 AM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77270, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 40

Originally posted by DarKReaLity
WAIT A MINUTE HOLD UP! everyone look at that graph and tell me i'm blind, but those lines are going over the 350HP mark right? how in the hell is it showing over 350, if it says you made 337??? dyno graphs read max HP and max torque.

That line you are reading is the torque line which is measured on the other side of the graph.

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siueclipse	Sep-30-04 09:42 AM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77272, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 43

This is what Craig says from HRC.

Craig doesn't like dynos. He's says its a tuning tool. He did say real world numbers will be different. He did agree with me that running down the track will produce colder more dense air the faster you go, which in my mind says more hp than what a dyno can give. He said that sure weight has something to do with it, but wasn't clean on exactly how it effects the car.

I still believe that running down a track will produce more power than comapred to a dyno.

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Mattchew	Sep-30-04 09:50 AM
Member since Oct 23rd 2003 340 posts,

#77277, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 44

Originally posted by siueclipse
This is what Craig says from HRC. Craig doesn't like dynos. He's says its a tuning tool. He did say real world numbers will be different. He did agree with me that running down the track will produce colder more dense air the faster you go, which in my mind says more hp than what a dyno can give. He said that sure weight has something to do with it, but wasn't clean on exactly how it effects the car. I still believe that running down a track will produce more power than comapred to a dyno.

I'll agree with you about the cooler air but that is also dependant on the conditions. A pull down the track in June or July may not yeild better results than a dyno pull in December.

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DarKReaLity	Sep-30-04 09:55 AM
Donating 2GNT member 934 posts,

#77282, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 43
Sep-30-04 09:56 AM by DarKReaLity

Originally posted by siueclipse

Originally posted by DarKReaLity WAIT A MINUTE HOLD UP! everyone look at that graph and tell me i'm blind, but those lines are going over the 350HP mark right? how in the hell is it showing over 350, if it says you made 337??? dyno graphs read max HP and max torque.

That line you are reading is the torque line which is measured on the other side of the graph.

ok sorry man those lines were confusing, i'm not used to seeing the right side being the torque graph.

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turbo8u	Sep-30-04 10:06 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#77283, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 46

the problem with inertia dyno sweep testing is that it only tests the acceleration of the motor and driveline, it doesnt have any load. so what typically happens is the acceleration fuel maps will read rich so the dyno operator or tuner leans them out as with the main fuel maps and once the car hits the street, the actual acceleration of the motor is much slower than when it was tested and it ends up being leaner.

you want to tune full throttle on the street, then dyno tune.

or better yet, load bearing dyno

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

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Mattchew	Sep-30-04 10:09 AM
Member since Oct 23rd 2003 340 posts,

#77284, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 47

Originally posted by turbo8u
the problem with inertia dyno sweep testing is that it only tests the acceleration of the motor and driveline, it doesnt have any load. so what typically happens is the acceleration fuel maps will read rich so the dyno operator or tuner leans them out as with the main fuel maps and once the car hits the street, the actual acceleration of the motor is much slower than when it was tested and it ends up being leaner. you want to tune full throttle on the street, then dyno tune. or better yet, load bearing dyno

http://www.dyno.com.au/home.htm

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JasonESi_T	Sep-30-04 10:14 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3107 posts,

#77285, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 46

I thought HP and torque were supposed to cross at 5250? Yours crosses at 6000 rpms?

Like my old dyno at 13.5 psi with a S16g:

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

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DarkOne	Sep-30-04 10:19 AM
Donating 2GNT member 14955 posts,

#77286, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 49

Because of the "correction" the software does. This is why no chassis dyno is really accurate.

______________________________
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'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
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FlyinEsi	Sep-30-04 10:51 AM
Donating 2GNT member 5187 posts,

#77287, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 50

Originally posted by DarkOne
Because of the "correction" the software does. This is why no chassis dyno is really accurate.

You've got me curious...what "corrections" does the software make?? And how inaccurate does it make a dyno??

___________________________________

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DarkOne	Sep-30-04 10:56 AM
Donating 2GNT member 14955 posts,

#77288, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 51

Originally posted by FlyinEsi

Originally posted by DarkOne Because of the "correction" the software does. This is why no chassis dyno is really accurate.

You've got me curious...what "corrections" does the software make?? And how inaccurate does it make a dyno??

Depends on the dyno, the software, and the corrections used. They're configurable.

Who's to say how inaccurate or accurate they are? Throw one on an engine dyno, then put it back in the car and put it on a chassis dyno, and tell us.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)

Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

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turbo8u	Sep-30-04 11:06 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#77289, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 51
Sep-30-04 11:10 AM by turbo8u

Originally posted by FlyinEsi

Originally posted by DarkOne Because of the "correction" the software does. This is why no chassis dyno is really accurate.

You've got me curious...what "corrections" does the software make?? And how inaccurate does it make a dyno??

a dynojet calulates horspower and torque based off a few things.

one horsepower is equal to a 550 pound force through a distance of 1 foot in one second. so basically it would take 1 HP to lift a 550 pound weight up 1 foot in 1 second. to meausre hp you need to know the force in lbs as well as the velocity in feet per second. it emasures acceleration with the juge drums as well as how much forceis turning them. the force on the dyno drum is calculated from acceleration using newton's 2nd law, force = mass X acceleration. if they know how much the drums weigh and acceleration is measured, the computer can calculate horsepower. torque is calculated as well with horsepower X 5252 / RPM

once they have the numbers a few correction factors are applied, some made public, some hidden. public correction factor is the SAE correction. (standard) this formula assumes a mechanical efficiency of 85%.

the formula used for a dynojet inertial dyno is: CF= 1.18 X (29.22/Bdo) X ((Square Root(To+460)/537)) with 'To' being intake air temp F, 'Bdo' being barometric absolute press. this correction factor is meant to predict output in varying atmospheric conditions and is a +/- 7%

damn that took 3ever

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

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siueclipse	Sep-30-04 11:13 AM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77290, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 53

mmmmmmmmmmm mechanical efficiency

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xtrickedeclipsex	Sep-30-04 01:25 PM
Member since Oct 13th 2003 620 posts,

#77291, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 53

Originally posted by turbo8u

Originally posted by FlyinEsi

Originally posted by DarkOne Because of the "correction" the software does. This is why no chassis dyno is really accurate.

You've got me curious...what "corrections" does the software make?? And how inaccurate does it make a dyno??

a dynojet calulates horspower and torque based off a few things. one horsepower is equal to a 550 pound force through a distance of 1 foot in one second. so basically it would take 1 HP to lift a 550 pound weight up 1 foot in 1 second. to meausre hp you need to know the force in lbs as well as the velocity in feet per second. it emasures acceleration with the juge drums as well as how much forceis turning them. the force on the dyno drum is calculated from acceleration using newton's 2nd law, force = mass X acceleration. if they know how much the drums weigh and acceleration is measured, the computer can calculate horsepower. torque is calculated as well with horsepower X 5252 / RPM once they have the numbers a few correction factors are applied, some made public, some hidden. public correction factor is the SAE correction. (standard) this formula assumes a mechanical efficiency of 85%. the formula used for a dynojet inertial dyno is: CF= 1.18 X (29.22/Bdo) X ((Square Root(To+460)/537)) with 'To' being intake air temp F, 'Bdo' being barometric absolute press. this correction factor is meant to predict output in varying atmospheric conditions and is a +/- 7% damn that took 3ever

---------------------------------------

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dougie2	Sep-30-04 01:55 PM
Old School 2GNTer 2982 posts,

#77292, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 55

WOW! I absolutely can not believe all the ignorant shit I've read in this thread. I'd say ~ 75% of it is incorrect. I hate that people post what they THINK as fact and will argue till death against anything different. I want to point out every little wrong thing in this thread, but I have neither the time nor patience to argue with all the N O O B S.

<<< PAGING MR. MOTOTOOL >>>

Doug

Xtreme Performance Services
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www.xtremefabrications.com

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turbo8u	Sep-30-04 01:56 PM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#77293, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 56

Originally posted by dougie2
WOW! I absolutely can not believe all the ignorant shit I've read in this thread. I'd say ~ 75% of it is incorrect. I hate that people post what they THINK as fact and will argue till death against anything different. I want to point out every little wrong thing in this thread, but I have neither the time nor patience to argue with all the N O O B S. <<< PAGING MR. MOTOTOOL >>>

just do it and stop being lazy

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

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Mattchew	Sep-30-04 02:07 PM
Member since Oct 23rd 2003 340 posts,

#77294, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 56
Sep-30-04 02:10 PM by Mattchew

Originally posted by dougie2
WOW! I absolutely can not believe all the ignorant shit I've read in this thread. I'd say ~ 75% of it is incorrect. I hate that people post what they THINK as fact and will argue till death against anything different. I want to point out every little wrong thing in this thread, but I have neither the time nor patience to argue with all the N O O B S. <<< PAGING MR. MOTOTOOL >>>

I feel honored just to be in your presence. (now where is that rolleyes icon) emoji

Instead of just complaining, why don't you enlighten us oh wise one.

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DarkOne	Oct-01-04 06:55 AM
Donating 2GNT member 14955 posts,

#77342, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 56

Originally posted by dougie2
WOW! I absolutely can not believe all the ignorant shit I've read in this thread. I'd say ~ 75% of it is incorrect. I hate that people post what they THINK as fact and will argue till death against anything different. I want to point out every little wrong thing in this thread, but I have neither the time nor patience to argue with all the N O O B S. <<< PAGING MR. MOTOTOOL >>>

Enlighten me.

______________________________
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dougie2	Sep-30-04 04:19 PM
Old School 2GNTer 2982 posts,

#77303, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 0

Originally posted by Mattchew
When I said 2 models I was referring to the two above the 20G. The 20G-H and the 20G-N. Either way they are just bigger exducer wheels.

Incorrect. The S20G uses a 10cm^2 TD05H turbine section, the S20G-H uses a std. TD06H, and the S20G-N uses a 10cm^2 TD06H. That's all on Hahn's website.

Originally posted by Mattchew
Siueclipe, your car as it sits has the potential to put down high 300 and maybe even clear 400hp. It's going to be a matter of tuning and race gas.

Incorrect. Tuning and race gas will not even come close to increasing output by 60-70 horsepower on the setup he ran.

Originally posted by Mattchew
Armond never crossed 400hp until he added race gas. Using pump gas to max out hp is a bad idea.

Huh? As far as I know most gasoline fuels should have the same potential energy regardless of it's octane rating. Higher octane fuel delays pre-ignition. It burns slower. You only need higher octane fuel if you're increasing the compression ratio (I'm not talking about static CR here guys.)

Originally posted by Siueclipse
Whatever someone dyno's at, you can expect at least 10whp more on the road.

That's a dumb-ass statement. There's no way to measure that.

Originally posted by Mattchew
With a dyno jet roller dyno your looking at no real world resistance on the car or even drag from moving through the air. If anything you lose that hp when you go on the road.

Incorrect. Drag and load don't reduce an engine's power output. Acceleration maybe. Now... the stock ECU will advance ignition timing at higher loads and that would effect power output.

Originally posted by Mattchew
If the dyno was setup correctly the only factor that should matter as far as effecting hp would be that you would see more airflow and cooler temps.

Whoa, you flip-flopped. What about moisture and barometric pressure?

Originally posted by turbo8u
cooler ambient air temps dont mean shit on a car thats intercooled. it does however increase the efficiency of the intercooler to have cooler air flowing over it. its the actual intake air temp in the manifold that matters.

Incorrect. If you were to pump 100* inlet temps through an intercooler with 75* ambient air flowing over it, would the outlet temps be the same if you were to pump 60* inlet temps through it? Let me simplify. The cooler the air enters the turbo compressor, the cooler it will leave the compressor. The cooler it enters the intercooler, the cooler it will exit the intercooler. The cooler it exits the intercooler, the cooler it enters the manifold.

Originally posted by Mattchew
A pull down the track in June or July may not yeild better results than a dyno pull in December.

Huh? Am I the only one that's confused by these comments?

Originally posted by turbo8u
the actual acceleration of the motor is much slower than when it was tested and it ends up being leaner.

A little leaner than 11.6:1 AFR is typically going to help produce a little more horsepower. Lean is good. Lean is powerful. Lean is fast. Lean is also dangerous. Flip-flop... must be a bunch of John Kerry wanna-bes.

Originally posted by turbo8u
you want to tune full throttle on the street, then dyno tune.
or better yet, load bearing dyno

If you're tuning a street car, then it's beter to tune on the street... not on a load bearing dyno. It's just EASIER on the dyno.

Originally posted by turbo8u
a dynojet calulates horspower and torque based off a few things.

one horsepower is equal to a 550 pound force through a distance of 1 foot in one second. so basically it would take 1 HP to lift a 550 pound weight up 1 foot in 1 second. to meausre hp you need to know the force in lbs as well as the velocity in feet per second. it emasures acceleration with the juge drums as well as how much forceis turning them. the force on the dyno drum is calculated from acceleration using newton's 2nd law, force = mass X acceleration. if they know how much the drums weigh and acceleration is measured, the computer can calculate horsepower. torque is calculated as well with horsepower X 5252 / RPM

once they have the numbers a few correction factors are applied, some made public, some hidden. public correction factor is the SAE correction. (standard) this formula assumes a mechanical efficiency of 85%.

the formula used for a dynojet inertial dyno is: CF= 1.18 X (29.22/Bdo) X ((Square Root(To+460)/537)) with 'To' being intake air temp F, 'Bdo' being barometric absolute press. this correction factor is meant to predict output in varying atmospheric conditions and is a +/- 7%

LOL. I know the website where you copied that from. Nice job trying to make it look like your own work. You should've just cut & pasted it exactly instead of changing caps and punctuation. I didn't know your car was German. emoji

Doug

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Justin99RS	Sep-30-04 04:27 PM
Donating 2GNT member 1594 posts,

#77304, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 60
Sep-30-04 04:29 PM by Justin99RS

turbo8u =

:brokeoff

mattchew = emoji

siueclipse =

:brokeoff

dougie2 = the breaker, the owner and the man. with a nice car.

'99 RS
gone, never forgotten

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siueclipse	Sep-30-04 04:30 PM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77305, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 60

LOL. I know the website where you copied that from. Nice job trying to make it look like your own work. You should've just cut & pasted it exactly instead of changing caps and punctuation. I didn't know your car was German. emoji

FUCKING LOL

OWNED

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Mattchew	Sep-30-04 04:38 PM
Member since Oct 23rd 2003 340 posts,

#77307, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 60
Sep-30-04 04:40 PM by Mattchew

OK I do appreciate you setting that straight doug because I would rather be corrected than just told I'm wrong. Let me see if I can address any of the ones I said.

"Incorrect. The S20G uses a 10cm^2 TD05H turbine section, the S20G-H uses a std. TD06H, and the S20G-N uses a 10cm^2 TD06H. That's all on Hahn's website."

I took my information on that straight from Hahns site. Here is the page I was looking at. http://www.hahnracecraft.com/hahn/parts/2ndgensuperturbos.htm

If you look at the "more" part it says the exducer is bigger as you go to different models.

"Incorrect. Tuning and race gas will not even come close to increasing output by 60-70 horsepower on the setup he ran."

I'm not saying race gas alone would give him 60-70hp. I realize that race gas does not increse hp but does help with pre-ignition. But doesn't this reduction allow you to run higher boost levels "safer". #edit I also was saying that his car has more potential than just 337hp.

"Huh? As far as I know most gasoline fuels should have the same potential energy regardless of it's octane rating. Higher octane fuel delays pre-ignition. It burns slower. You only need higher octane fuel if you're increasing the compression ratio (I'm not talking about static CR here guys.)"

All I'm saying is Armond was able to achive better numbers tuning with race gas vs pump.

"Incorrect. Drag and load don't reduce an engine's power output. Acceleration maybe. Now... the stock ECU will advance ignition timing at higher loads and that would effect power output."

I have no reply to that other than I was wrong emoji

"Whoa, you flip-flopped. What about moisture and barometric pressure?"

OK, sure I'm not including all the factors here and I missed that one as well. Really what is the point though of debating dyno hp vs highway hp? Most people when they are giving hp numbers give the dyno numbers. There are tools out there for measuring real world conditions but I have not been to the dyno enough to know if there is an actual dyno that can give you "real world" numbers. Dyno Dynamics is a much better dyno for getting an idea of that but some people don't want to use it because they like the bigger numbers they can get on dyno jet or dyno pak.

"Huh? Am I the only one that's confused by these comments?"

That was not a very clear statement. What I meant was a run down the track in 110 degree heat with high humity tends to be worse than a dry winter with 50 degrees outside. Same thing for a dyno. Most the guys I've seen run better both at the dyno and the track in the late fall.

Clearly Doug I don't know as much as you about this but I do appreciate you taking the time to give your input and explain things.

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dougie2	Sep-30-04 04:44 PM
Old School 2GNTer 2982 posts,

#77308, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 63
Sep-30-04 04:47 PM by dougie2

Originally posted by Mattchew
I do appreciate you taking the time to give your input and explain things.

No problem, you asked. I just hate seeing guys posting info like it's fact when they have no idea what they're talking about. I won't tell you I know something when I don't know it for a fact. I wish everyone else would do the same instead of trying to have the biggest e-testes. If my remarks have been hostile lately it's because the quality of technical discussions here at 2GNT has gone to shit over the last year or so. It wasn't like this 3-4 years ago.

Doug

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tim97rs	Sep-30-04 04:58 PM
Donating 2GNT member 4255 posts,

#77309, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 64

Originally posted by dougie2
No problem, you asked. I just hate seeing guys posting info like it's fact when they have no idea what they're talking about. I won't tell you I know something when I don't know it for a fact. I wish everyone else would do the same instead of trying to have the biggest e-testes. If my remarks have been hostile lately it's because the quality of technical discussions here at 2GNT has gone to shit over the last year or so. It wasn't like this 3-4 years ago.

i have noticed this as well, which was in-part one of the reasons i was being such a dick there for a while.. however i digress. do you think the tech discussions has gone down the tubes because we are reaching a "general pinnicle" with the 420a platform and its kind of a "been there done that" type mentality, that we have reached a technical plateau?

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Remy	Sep-30-04 05:13 PM
Donating 2GNT member 6156 posts,

#77310, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 65

Doug > Everyone else in this thread. emoji

WWW.CNNMOTORSPORTS.COM

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dougie2	Sep-30-04 05:27 PM
Old School 2GNTer 2982 posts,

#77311, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 65

Originally posted by tim97rs
i have noticed this as well, which was in-part one of the reasons i was being such a dick there for a while.. however i digress. do you think the tech discussions has gone down the tubes because we are reaching a "general pinnicle" with the 420a platform and its kind of a "been there done that" type mentality, that we have reached a technical plateau?

Not at all. I don't even believe in "technical plateaus".

There is a lot of false information out there. Believe nothing you hear, and only half of what you see.

Doug

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xtrickedeclipsex	Sep-30-04 07:51 PM
Member since Oct 13th 2003 620 posts,

#77314, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 67

Wow, im surprised this turned out to be a goooood thread . Even tho it was started by a fucking moron
---------------------------------------

"Oh yea, well...My manifold does cool twisty things"

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Eclipse2NR	Sep-30-04 07:56 PM
Member since Nov 25th 2002 581 posts,

#77315, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 67

This got real off topic real quick, in a weird sort of way. Actually it's not even really off topic, it's just bloated like a mofo.

James... do you have a compressor map for your turbo? Do you know how to read it? We need to find out the real efficiency range of your turbo. You also need to make sure your clutch is not slipping. You also need to drive around and datalog your AFR. Do you have any idea how to adjust the map on your AIC? You need some very complete datalogging so you can tune your fuel map.

Let's focus on real ideas here on how to improve these horsepower numbers.

1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / Aerogear Body / Coated in Magnetic Red Metallic rev.2 / T3 Turbo Intercooled @ 8 psi / http://www.team2nr.com
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siueclipse	Oct-01-04 04:26 AM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77335, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 69

Originally posted by Eclipse2NR
James... do you have a compressor map for your turbo? Do you know how to read it? We need to find out the real efficiency range of your turbo. You also need to make sure your clutch is not slipping. You also need to drive around and datalog your AFR. Do you have any idea how to adjust the map on your AIC? You need some very complete datalogging so you can tune your fuel map. Let's focus on real ideas here on how to improve these horsepower numbers.

I do not have a compressor map for the turbo. I wish I did because it does seem to loose efficiency after about 23lbs of boost. Maybe Im puling too much timing though. I have a buddy helping me decipher this program. Its not as easy as I thought it would be.

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MrSlick	Oct-01-04 04:40 AM
Member since Jul 22nd 2002 1120 posts,

#77338, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 70

Originally posted by siueclipse

Originally posted by Eclipse2NR James... do you have a compressor map for your turbo? Do you know how to read it? We need to find out the real efficiency range of your turbo. You also need to make sure your clutch is not slipping. You also need to drive around and datalog your AFR. Do you have any idea how to adjust the map on your AIC? You need some very complete datalogging so you can tune your fuel map. Let's focus on real ideas here on how to improve these horsepower numbers.

I do not have a compressor map for the turbo. I wish I did because it does seem to loose efficiency after about 23lbs of boost. Maybe Im puling too much timing though. I have a buddy helping me decipher this program. Its not as easy as I thought it would be.

Hmmm, the programs not as easy as you thought it would be... isn't that ironic. emoji

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Megasquirt powered 420A
Custom turbo system

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MrSlick	Sep-30-04 08:00 PM
Member since Jul 22nd 2002 1120 posts,

#77316, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 67

Well... I was reading down this thread and laughing at half the posts... I was about to post about it all, but then Doug beat me to it... thanks bro, saved me the typing emoji

The one thing I will say is that I'm surprised at how low the dyno results were... but Dino hit the nail on the head... when he talks about "software correction" he's talking about the fact that all dynos will try to guess what the actual horsepower is by the results they get from their sensors! Dyno testing should not be used as the be all for power comparisons... if two cars are not tested on the same dyno on the same day... you cannot compare the numbers... simple as that.

What matters is how it drives and how it goes down the track if you so like... but even comparing track times can be misleading.

I would like to see your TechEdge datalogs from the run James... or even one from the street to compare... so I can see what the AFR is doing emoji
Please post those... you don't need a camera for that emoji

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Custom turbo system

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siueclipse	Oct-01-04 04:27 AM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77336, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 72

Originally posted by MrSlick
I would like to see your TechEdge datalogs from the run James... or even one from the street to compare... so I can see what the AFR is doing emoji

Please post those... you don't need a camera for that emoji

I didn't record any of the logs from the dyno run. I was simply watching everything in real time. I will this weekend however go out to a country road and see whats up and log the values and post them in an excel spreadsheet when im finished.

James

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MrSlick	Oct-01-04 04:39 AM
Member since Jul 22nd 2002 1120 posts,

#77337, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 73

Originally posted by siueclipse

Originally posted by MrSlick I would like to see your TechEdge datalogs from the run James... or even one from the street to compare... so I can see what the AFR is doing emoji

Please post those... you don't need a camera for that emoji

I didn't record any of the logs from the dyno run. I was simply watching everything in real time. I will this weekend however go out to a country road and see whats up and log the values and post them in an excel spreadsheet when im finished. James

The weekend?

Damnit boy what's wrong with today!

You need to get the fire of excitement under your ass more often!

Todays life lesson for you:
Don't put off till tomorrow what you COULD do today. Just do it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Megasquirt powered 420A
Custom turbo system

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Super20G	Oct-01-04 05:05 AM
Old School 2GNTer 2545 posts,

#77340, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 74
Oct-01-04 05:15 AM by Super20G

Exactly!

I'd be installing my setup if Hahn didnt qualify me wrong... Screw work, your the boss, haha, go reem on the 420a.

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turbo8u	Oct-01-04 06:33 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#77341, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 60
Oct-01-04 06:43 AM by turbo8u

Originally posted by dougie2
Nice job trying to make it look like your own work. You should've just cut & pasted it exactly instead of changing caps and punctuation.

did i say it was my own work? no. i edited it so when you read it, it would make more sense to the topic we were discussing, thats whay it 'took forever'

the secret to creativity is not revealing your sources. einstein said that.

shut the fuck up and get off your high horse dougster. you dont know everything either, and everything you DO know....you were either taught, or learned. so stfu. you're not some tuner god we bow to. the is the internet, and it has a wealth of knowledge, get used to it. stop youre fucking crying 'oh it wasnt like this 3 years ago wahhhhh!'

Originally posted by dougie2
I didn't know your car was German. emoji

i didnt know you were a nazi

and just for the record, ambient air temps still really dont mean shit. my intake air temperature DOES NOT CHANGE with cooler air or hotter air flowing over my intercooler. datalogged many, many times. i also have water/alcohol injection. its about the efficiency of the intercooler more-so. of course a huge dramatic change in temps from like 50-120 will comprimise the efficiency of the intercooler and the manifold temps will reflect that.

turbo inlet air temps are directly proportional to manifold temps, with facotrs like adiabatic efficiency and intercooler efficiency factored in. but the difference from 75 and 100 degree ambient air flow over a properly designed intercooler will only net like a 2* drop in intake air temps.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

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dougie2	Oct-01-04 08:13 AM
Old School 2GNTer 2982 posts,

#77345, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 76

Originally posted by turbo8u
the secret to creativity is not revealing your sources. einstein said that.

If you actually lived by those words then you wouldn't all over James' ass for not posting his dyno sheet.

Originally posted by turbo8u
shut the fuck up and get off your high horse dougster.

So let me get this straight. You called me lazy when I wasn't going to post all the things incorrect in this thread. Now you want me to STFU? Flip-flop.

Originally posted by turbo8u
you dont know everything either, and everything you DO know....you were either taught, or learned.

I said that a few posts back in this thread. "I won't tell you I know something when I don't know it for a fact." Unlike the few of you who like to post incorrect info like you've researched it on your own and it's a fact.

Originally posted by turbo8u
so stfu. you're not some tuner god we bow to.

Why STFU? Because what I post is actually true? Because you're the one that asked me to and now your mad? Because everyone but you has agreed with me? I'm no tuner god. I'm no expert. I'm not a professional mechanic or racer. This is, however, my passion. I really don't care what you think, you care what I think... remember? You asked.

Doug

Xtreme Performance Services
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turbo8u	Oct-01-04 08:41 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#77346, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 77
Oct-01-04 08:42 AM by turbo8u

i couldnt care less what you have to say, but im working on it!

why dont you cry about it dougster?

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

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dougie2	Oct-01-04 08:44 AM
Old School 2GNTer 2982 posts,

#77347, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 78

No reason to poke fun... let's talk cars man.

Doug

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turbo8u	Oct-01-04 08:48 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#77348, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 79

Originally posted by dougie2
No reason to poke fun... let's talk cars man.

we are, but for some reason you'd rather call bullshit on stuff thats true emoji

...thats fine with me, its just funny to watch you flip out over this. maybe you're just on a power trip or somethin who knows.

/end thread hijack

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

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dougie2	Oct-01-04 09:24 AM
Old School 2GNTer 2982 posts,

#77349, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 80

This is why I wasn't going to say anything... "you can't handle the truth."

Doug

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turbo8u	Oct-01-04 09:29 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#77350, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 81

Originally posted by dougie2
This is why I wasn't going to say anything... "you can't handle the truth."

RRRRRIIIIGGGGHHHHHT

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

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DarkOne	Oct-01-04 09:54 AM
Donating 2GNT member 14955 posts,

#77351, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 77

Originally posted by dougie2
I said that a few posts back in this thread. "I won't tell you I know something when I don't know it for a fact." Unlike the few of you who like to post incorrect info like you've researched it on your own and it's a fact.

i'm just curious - which incorrect info. I'm not gonna lie, i haven't read the whole thread and don't care to. I just like to know if *I* am posting something potentially incorrect.

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dougie2	Oct-01-04 11:33 AM
Old School 2GNTer 2982 posts,

#77354, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 83

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=77214&mesg_id=77214&page=#77303

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DarkOne	Oct-01-04 12:20 PM
Donating 2GNT member 14955 posts,

#77355, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 84

mmmmm. Good job.

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'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
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'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)

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xtrickedeclipsex	Oct-01-04 09:37 PM
Member since Oct 13th 2003 620 posts,

#77386, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 85
Oct-01-04 09:38 PM by xtrickedeclipsex

HEY, WHO VOTES DINO IS DRUNK? emoji

i do emoji
---------------------------------------

"Oh yea, well...My manifold does cool twisty things"

www.EnhancedMotorSports.com

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siueclipse	Oct-02-04 01:25 PM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77421, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 86

Well i finally got the car on the road and I completely forgot to log the shit. My rev speed meter is usually right on with the dyno readings. This time, the rev speed registered 402 on the road at 21lbs of boost. When I was at the dyno it was close to the 337 which was registered.. Interesting...

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dougie2	Oct-02-04 01:56 PM
Old School 2GNTer 2982 posts,

#77424, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 87
Oct-02-04 01:59 PM by dougie2

Care to explain how an RSM can calculate the same 337 HP as the dyno, when your ON the dyno? The RSM calculated HP figure is computed using the G-sensor along with other sensor inputs. On the dyno it'll register 0 G since your not moving at all.

Is there something I'm just missing here?

Also- I don't believe there is any way possible for you to be making over 400 WHP at 21 PSI with your setup. If you only knew what I had to go through to make 400 WHP you'd know why I don't believe it's possible on your setup.

Doug

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djtrickee	Oct-02-04 02:20 PM
Donating 2GNT member 5924 posts,

#77425, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 88

Originally posted by dougie2
Care to explain how an RSM can calculate the same 337 HP as the dyno, when your ON the dyno? The RSM calculated HP figure is computed using the G-sensor along with other sensor inputs. On the dyno it'll register 0 G since your not moving at all. Is there something I'm just missing here? Also- I don't believe there is any way possible for you to be making over 400 WHP at 21 PSI with your setup. If you only knew what I had to go through to make 400 WHP you'd know why I don't believe it's possible on your setup.

^^^ Speaks the truth. There is no way NO WAY that the rsm could have measured hp when you were on the dyno. and there is no way you had 337 on the dyno then jumped up to 4XX with the same settings and at only 21psi.

NEXT!!

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DarKReaLity	Oct-02-04 02:22 PM
Donating 2GNT member 934 posts,

#77427, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 88
Oct-02-04 02:26 PM by DarKReaLity

well if you take 15% drivetrain loss, that will be 340WHP. so maybe that looks more like it right there.
EDIT: hey James there you go, you can claim 400crankHP.

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dougie2	Oct-02-04 03:41 PM
Old School 2GNTer 2982 posts,

#77431, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 90

Originally posted by DarKReaLity
well if you take 15% drivetrain loss

When using the RSM you could say that's already been accounted for, since it's using a "g-force sensor" and that sensor gets it's data from power that's already been laid down to the asphalt.

*That description is an analogy

Doug

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djtrickee	Oct-02-04 05:39 PM
Donating 2GNT member 5924 posts,

#77434, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 91

Originally posted by dougie2

Originally posted by DarKReaLity well if you take 15% drivetrain loss

When using the RSM you could say that's already been accounted for, since it's using a "g-force sensor" and that sensor gets it's data from power that's already been laid down to the asphalt. *That description is an analogy

The RSM uses the G-sensor to calculate the "final" "finished" WHP. This includes all negative variables including drivetrain loss, driver and misc. weight, driver inability, and also vehicle aerodynamic drag. It measures what the car is able to create in a real world situation. This and also with the G-tech Pro is why people are disappointed with their numbers coming from these devices. They include variables usually not accounted for but are real world detractions from a Dyno WHP calculation.

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turbo8u	Oct-02-04 02:22 PM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#77428, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 86

Originally posted by xtrickedeclipsex
HEY, WHO VOTES DINO IS DRUNK? i do emoji

i do

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
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02 WRX

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DarkOne	Oct-02-04 10:05 PM
Donating 2GNT member 14955 posts,

#77441, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 93

Originally posted by turbo8u

Originally posted by xtrickedeclipsex HEY, WHO VOTES DINO IS DRUNK? i do emoji

i do

Dude, it was 5 in the afternoon my time. i wasn't drunk, i was hungover.

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'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
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'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)

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xtrickedeclipsex	Oct-03-04 08:08 AM
Member since Oct 13th 2003 620 posts,

#77445, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 94

emoji
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MrSlick	Oct-03-04 08:08 AM
Member since Jul 22nd 2002 1120 posts,

#77446, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 94

All the points above about the RSM meters are correct... they tell you what is actually being applied to the ground... or not in some cases emoji

Also, in my experience the G-Force type meters are actually quite accurate... so long as you get them setup right. But that's the ET side of them, not the HP... haven't used the HP feature too many times... maybe I'll try it out on the Eclipse when I get the turbo back on emoji

And don't forget what I said before about Hahn using his 150 shot to get over 505WHP... that should tell you something! ?Just think about it.

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siueclipse	Oct-03-04 12:12 PM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77456, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 96

So youre saying that I suppose I could believe this RSM when it says 402?

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dougie2	Oct-03-04 12:18 PM
Old School 2GNTer 2982 posts,

#77457, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 97
Oct-03-04 12:21 PM by dougie2

No... you're still not making over 400... give us a break man. emoji

Doug

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siueclipse	Oct-03-04 12:23 PM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77458, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 98

Then why are people saying that g-tech type devices are accuratE?

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dougie2	Oct-03-04 12:34 PM
Old School 2GNTer 2982 posts,

#77459, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 99

MrSlick said that in his experience the ET functions are fairly accurate if set up and calibrated properly. He also said: "But that's the ET side of them, not the HP..."

You don't just pickup 70 WHP overnight by tuning. You also can't make 400 WHP with the S20G @ 21 PSI.

For whatever reason, you want everyone to believe you're making over 400 WHP. It's like you're obsessed with making people believe it. You put it in your sig, you trust a G-Meter's calcs as true, you really don't know WTF you're talking about. Even after everyone gave you hell for claiming 380 some-odd HP, and you refused to post a dyno log, you still have the nerve to say "hmmm, very interesting my G-shit meter shows over 400 WHP and everyone think's they're accurate, I must be making over 400 WHP." What a crock of shit. I bet that 380 WHP number never came from a dyno, I bet it came from your G-shit meter the whole time. LOL emoji

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siueclipse	Oct-03-04 12:37 PM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77461, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 100

Originally posted by dougie2
MrSlick said that in his experience the ET functions are fairly accurate if set up and calibrated properly. He also said: "But that's the ET side of them, not the HP..." You don't just pickup 70 WHP overnight by tuning. You also can't make 400 WHP with the S20G @ 21 PSI. For whatever reason, you want everyone to believe you're making over 400 WHP. It's like you're obsessed with making people believe it. You put it in your sig, you trust a G-Meter's calcs as true, you really don't know WTF you're talking about. Even after everyone gave you hell for claiming 380 some-odd HP, and you refused to post a dyno log, you still have the nerve to say "hmmm, very interesting my G-shit meter shows over 400 WHP and everyone think's they're accurate, I must be making over 400 WHP." What a crock of shit. I bet that 380 WHP number never came from a dyno, I bet it came from your G-shit meter the whole time. LOL emoji

hey chill out man. damn, wake up on the wrong side of the bed or what?

there is nothing wrong with having goals which is why my sig says i will break 400whp. its just a goal that im going to meet. im not obsessed with people knowing anything about my setup.

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dougie2	Oct-03-04 12:41 PM
Old School 2GNTer 2982 posts,

#77462, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 101

Have goals, but stop being a doofus.

Doug

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420a-Tnthewerks	Oct-03-04 12:35 PM
Member since Jun 11th 2004 2267 posts,

#77460, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 99

i believe you can get there or pretty damn close without nitrous. in 4th gear, race gas, up the boost 5psi or more, and tune it right, i think you'd be pretty damn close. like Mr. Slick said, Hahn got 505WHP with a 150 shot, which means they had around 450WHP before nitrous.

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Mattchew	Oct-03-04 12:44 PM
Member since Oct 23rd 2003 340 posts,

#77463, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 103

Didn't Bill make that 505whp like 4 years ago when he was only running 11s? Seriously he has to be making more power now.

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dougie2	Oct-03-04 12:47 PM
Old School 2GNTer 2982 posts,

#77465, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 104
Oct-03-04 12:47 PM by dougie2

He made over 500 with the DFI a few years ago and recently put down the same numbers with the PortFueler. The fuel system isn't the only change they made though.

Doug

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dougie2	Oct-03-04 12:45 PM
Old School 2GNTer 2982 posts,

#77464, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 103

Originally posted by 420a-Tnthewerks
i believe you can get there or pretty damn close without nitrous. in 4th gear, race gas, up the boost 5psi or more, and tune it right, i think you'd be pretty damn close.

Max is about 400 HP at the wheels without any super trick engine mods.

Originally posted by 420a-Tnthewerks
Hahn got 505WHP with a 150 shot, which means they had around 450WHP before nitrous.

WTF? 55 WHP from a 150-shot? You're wrong. When Bill put down 505 his boost controller was set for 18 psi and he used high-octane fuel and 150-shot of nitrous. It'd be in the mid-upper 300 range w/o the nitrous injection.

Doug

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420a-Tnthewerks	Oct-03-04 03:40 PM
Member since Jun 11th 2004 2267 posts,

#77468, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 106

Originally posted by dougie2
WTF? 55 WHP from a 150-shot? You're wrong. When Bill put down 505 his boost controller was set for 18 psi and he used high-octane fuel and 150-shot of nitrous. It'd be in the mid-upper 300 range w/o the nitrous injection.

ooooopps. excuse me, i can't subtract...ass.

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xtrickedeclipsex	Oct-03-04 06:29 PM
Member since Oct 13th 2003 620 posts,

#77477, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 97
Oct-03-04 06:30 PM by xtrickedeclipsex

Originally posted by siueclipse
So youre saying that I suppose I could believe this RSM when it says 402?

Man, you have BANME! Written all over you.
I wish dino would just ban you already...

maybe we should get a poll...Who thinks Mr. 382 WHP should be banned?

lol

(raise my hand) - I

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siueclipse	Oct-03-04 06:39 PM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77480, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 108

Originally posted by xtrickedeclipsex

Originally posted by siueclipse So youre saying that I suppose I could believe this RSM when it says 402?

Man, you have BANME! Written all over you. I wish dino would just ban you already... maybe we should get a poll...Who thinks Mr. 382 WHP should be banned? lol (raise my hand) - I ---------------------------------------

now who is actuing like a doofus.

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MrSlick	Oct-04-04 04:16 AM
Member since Jul 22nd 2002 1120 posts,

#77492, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 109

Here:

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=56512&mesg_id=56512&listing_type=search

That's the last time I remember Bill saying how much power the RS had. 505 without the DFI... 508 with the DFI.
Now I know he's dyno'd since then, but I don't know the numbers... Dino, you remember?

And yes 505 - 150 is about 355.
I say about because a 150 shot of nitrous will rarely actually give you 150WHP.... more like 75 to 100... so that would put HRC close to 400 WHP.

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Super20G	Oct-04-04 10:35 AM
Old School 2GNTer 2545 posts,

#77502, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 110

Bill said he is making more power with the PF than he could with the DFI, but then again.. he's trying to SELL PF's now, haha

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BlueMoonEclipse	Oct-04-04 11:15 AM
Member since Sep 25th 2003 1352 posts,

#77505, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 111

Sigh...

Im at least happy Sui now admits he was wrong with his HP numbers.....

Sui...i would ditch the 20g...go bigger.....since you going the N20 route anyways...you dont have to worry about spooling while on the bottle...

vote for your choice of body style for Bluie!! http://www.cardomain.com/id/bluemooneclipse

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siueclipse	Oct-04-04 11:21 AM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#77506, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 112

Originally posted by BlueMoonEclipse
Sigh... Im at least happy Sui now admits he was wrong with his HP numbers..... Sui...i would ditch the 20g...go bigger.....since you going the N20 route anyways...you dont have to worry about spooling while on the bottle...

i never admitted i was wrong. i said that i started to not believe them because of comparing them to other people's.. then i find out the dynojet was replaced...

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corsagsbo	Oct-04-04 11:53 AM
Old School 2GNTer 390 posts,

#77509, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 111
Oct-04-04 11:58 AM by corsagsbo

Originally posted by Super20G
Bill said he is making more power with the PF than he could with the DFI, but then again.. he's trying to SELL PF's now, haha

that was with the 6 too... it's taken a Gen 7 as standalone and br/57 turbo to make over 400 at 20psi with heavy supporting mods in my case... but please keep up with it guys, because I'll poop bubbles if the Port Fueler eventually proves to worthwhile... emoji

--------------------------------------
know me as santiago
boosted 420a and ej2o..(my 2liter v8 eaters)

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Ducking_Fumbass	Oct-04-04 03:20 PM
Member since Aug 30th 2004 1147 posts,

#77513, "RE: Well, lets just say this..."
In response to Reply # 114

I'd love to see you poop bubbles. The secret to 400+ HP is good fuel management, spark timing management, and a big fucking turbo. Keeping the stock ECU in the loop is problematic.

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Turbo/Nitrous Tech

topic #77214

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