I have not really seen any topic of this sort, so I decided to start one.
On practical side and remaining a budget(most of us are), for a daily driven 2gnt, the perfect performance oriented suspention set-up would be:
1)A good set of Springs(Eibach,prokit/H&R Race spring)
2)Performance shocks(tokiko Illuminas/ Bilstein)
3)Sway bars(RMDSM or any adjustable one)
4)Tie bars F/R Upper/lower
5)Poly-urethane bushing set(Energy supention)
6)A good set of perfomance tires(z-rated with lowest trade wear possible to your liking)
7)$15 camber kit mod for near-stock height springs(aftermarket camber for anything lower)

Now,there is two schools of tought: A) Soft springs and big sway bars. B)Hard springs with soft bars.In my opinion,I would on a 2gnt go for softer springs(eibachs pro kit)and big bar(RMDSM). Some of you guys probably think the Rmdsm is two hard and still induce some understeer, but I experienced it and went away(more neutral balance) with setting the front shocks softer and the rear ones rock hard.
Soon, I am going to try matching an adjustable front bar (set on soft) with the rmdsm in the back, to see how it behaves. Another un-neutral characteristic on the way of reaching handling nirvana is that Several 2gnt I drove showed signs of unbalanced cross weight. What I mean is that some 2gnt, like right turns more than left ones or vice versa. This problem is due to uneven weight distribution on the Right-front/Left-back compared to Left-front/right back. One of my future projects is to weight the car with me in it on all four side and see how practically possible it is to remove or shift weights, so I could correct any imbalance.I'm waiting to hear any input, suggestions and different views from this terrific board cauz at the end we'll all benefit.

It's ignorance to think you know it all

I'm not sure how to reply except with my setup. I built this setup for daily driver, and auto-x.

-Sprint sports 1.5" drop
-Tokiko Ill 5 way adjustable
-Sus Tech front/rear sways
-brembro f/r cross drilled/slotted rotors w/ceramic pads and SS lines.
-f/r upper and lower tie bars.
-race tires for auto-x, kuhmo V700 205 wide (no compare to street tires, these stick like glue)
-daily driver tires, hankook k104 225 wide (had to roll rear fenders)
-15 dollar camber mod, nothing up front.
-energy sus. motor mounts.

I am sure I'm forgeting some stuff on there too, anyway this setup does very well at the auto-x events, (I'm in SM due to the turbocharger setup), I always seem to do 4-6th place consistantly.
The only time I have traction problem is durring trail braking manuvers. If I'm comming into a turn where my speed it a bit too fast, and I try to trail brake (use my brakes during the turn), my rear end will swing out. I can typically correct but I lose time due to the correction. I have tried almost all combo's for my settings and it never seems to eliminate the tail spin totally, although it is very predictable. Anyway that is the only complaint I have with this setup. It does ride a bit rough even with my shocks on their lowest setting. I'm going to guess that everyone has these problems with similar setups. I don't know if I have helped any here, these are just my experiences with my setup.

Kevin
The old:


The new:

Handling perfection???

Fork over some cash for a complete JIC suspension setup....Now if Tein made something for our cars in the more autocross type setup but they dont...they manly street...so its just JIC...and its not a bad choice from what i hear...i actualy am considering em (streatable?? whats that??)

vote for your choice of body style for Bluie!! http://www.cardomain.com/id/bluemooneclipse

Joel Baldridge, ASE Certified Master Technician, Audi Certified Expert Technician

The Stillen sways are cheap and are a bit thicker and stiffer then stock.

good for those of you on a budget like me.

Member # 751


FOUNDER of the Central Cali chapter of 2GNT!
(I got kicked out after I refused to go Cow tiping) - Hehehe you know who this is for

really...it all depends on the person...some may like a tail happy ride, while others might want just a rail riding...ride. Camber may not neccesarilly be bad, depending on how much racing you do and what kind it is.

Basically, the ultimate suspension setup would be completely adjustable. Actual strut tower bars and braces...you know....upper bars taht actually bolt up to the firewall and are stiff, rather then the shit out now. Poly bushings are a great addition, the price is right, but the labor to install blows ass.

The absolute best thing to do if you are just a regular joe driving around is to get some good rims and tires, and some basic suspension bolt ons.

You have to really sit down and look at spring rates, roll on your car, how you drive, and how the car reacts to get the ultimate set up. It will differ between everyone.

Here's a question about those tie-bars out there. Does the company really make a difference? Is it all basically a bar that bolts to your struts? I go on ebay and see sets of 3 or 4 upper and lowers matched for about $60 shipped, compared to a DC sports front-upper for $100 shipped by itself. Are you paying for the name, or the dependability, fitment, and actual performance?

'95 Copper GS-T "Serena" Stage 3 CM Clutch w/alumin flywheel, Injen Intake, Apex'i I/C pipes + Twin Chamber BOV, Defi D-Series Boost + A/F gauges...pushing 17psi!

Fully adjustable coilovers (Teins aren't bad, JICs are better)

Sway bars (RMDSM, preferably)

Poly bushings (Prothane, preferably - stiffer and easier to install)

Upper shock tower bars (all of them are crap, except maybe for the Neuspeed. RRE makes a nice rear)

Lower tie bars (RRE makes a nice front, I am looking at it, in my hands, right now)

Good, lightweight, wide wheels with sticky rubber on them. Go as wide as can you fit. Roll your fenders for more width in back.

Racing seat and harness so you can actually steer the car the way in which it is capable of being steered.

Breakes should be upgraded, as well, as it does not make sense to have a car that handles phenominally, yet requires early braking on corner entry.

If you are truly crazy, get a roll cage. The more chassis mounting points, the better. This will reduce flex more than anything else that you can do to the car.

A smaller steering wheel would make it easier to steer the car, as well.

Weld a steering quickener in. Fewer turns lock-to-lock can be fun!

As for shock tower bars, the adjustable ones are crap. The rear ones with a couple of 90 degree bends on the stantions are crap. RRE has a nice rear bar that will fit your car, but the front says that it will only fit the turbo models. I think that it would hit our valve cover. The top of the shock is not the best place to reinforce, though, as the forces are transmitted to the A-arms instead of the shocks. On a car with struts, it makes sense to bridge the tops of the struts, but with shocks, reinforce the A-arm mounting points.

I don't know of a good rear lower tie bar. I am also not entirely sure how necessary it is, given the strength of the rear crossmember. If you think it would help, get some bar stock, some plating, a brake, and go to town. I would recommend the same for the front shock tower brace, too. Try connecting all four upper a-arm mounting bolts together, and triangulate it to the firewall.

Lastly, check the obvious shit - wheel bearings, bushings, bolts, arms, and ball joints. The best suspension in the world will not eliminate a wheel bearing problem, or a dying ball joint.

for a real race car....
I'd get a NHRA/SCCA legal rollcage. those things are absolute bastards to make and it would completely block off the back seat since you need a diagonal and horizontal brace bar in the main hoop. but on the other hand, roll cages look completely badass from outside the car... nothing like a big metal "X" in the rear window.
I'd change as much of the front end to fiberglass or carbon fiber as I could, since our cars are extremely nose-heavy. carbon fiber hood for sure, maybe fenders, maybe bumper. I'd remove everything inside the front bumper. if I was really crazy, I'd see if I couldn't fabricate new mounts and move the engine back a couple inches but I don't think that is possible without some kind of crazy transmission work. I'd relocate the battery to the trunk, too.
then I'd ditch the stock gas tank and put a fuel cell in the trunk, to help with weight distro and to be legal under more rules. I'd put it as low in the chassis as I could.
then I'd lower the car on some nice full-on racing coilovers. and then I'd put on a widebody kit and some really wide tires, 265/45R17 fronts and 285/40R17 rears.. maybe equal size fronts and rears, the car is FWD so it understeers anyway. Bigger rear tires would help keep the ass end in control under hard braking. of course, you need racing tires for something like this.
then a real racing seat, with a 5 point harness, and a tiny steering wheel. I'd keep the full interior for bragging rights. no back seat tho. I'd drill a bunch of holes wherever I could to save more weight on the car, and change those big rear plastic pieces to fiberglass or carbon fiber since they weigh quite a bit.

1995 Eagle Talon ESi

Since this is suspension oriented thread>
Does any company make a spring that is stock height or .5 drop that has a better spring rate .(everything that I have found is 1.25 or lower)
I don't have the clearance to drop alot because of my mile long nose piece but in high speed cornering it tends to dip to much for my liking , I'm saving up for new swaybars but am trying to search for the right spring rate.


Star Stage II,Vecco SS heatshield,OBX intake,OBX fuelrail,MSD coil & wires,Epac voltage sys.,Hyperground sys.,Eagle rods,JE pistons,ARP studs,meling oil pump(Ceramic coated DP,wastegate tube,Manifold & turbo housing)

Originally posted by rucr8z2
Since this is suspension oriented thread> Does any company make a spring that is stock height or .5 drop that has a better spring rate .(everything that I have found is 1.25 or lower) I don't have the clearance to drop alot because of my mile long nose piece but in high speed cornering it tends to dip to much for my liking , I'm saving up for new swaybars but am trying to search for the right spring rate. Star Stage II,Vecco SS heatshield,OBX intake,OBX fuelrail,MSD coil & wires,Epac voltage sys.,Hyperground sys.,Eagle rods,JE pistons,ARP studs,meling oil pump(Ceramic coated DP,wastegate tube,Manifold & turbo housing)

1995 Eagle Talon ESi

I have the RSR springs. Not too bad of a drop IMO. Close to Eibach Prokit in terms of spring rate, however not progressive in the rear.

-K-

Also look into Tein Type SS coilovers, completely adjustable height and stiffness. Set it where you want it.

I have Apex'i world sport damper coilovers and they are adjustable to anywhere from like a .5" drop maybe, clear down to about 3.5" drop. Stiffness is not adjustable, but I like it right where it is.

___________________________________

Here's my setup:

-B&G coil-overs
-Energy Suspension urethane bushings
-RMDSM Sway bars
-225/45/17 Falken Azenis tires
-12" AEM Brakes front and rear
-Front and rear upper strut bars (mainly for show)

I havent really pushed it yet but there is virtually no body roll and handles great.

_______________________________________


95 Talon ESi-T

if you want handling perfection you dont drop the car at all.
see here, this is my suspension geometry from a 2" drop.
roll center is nice and low but without lowering the center of gravity, the roll couple is increased over stock (how much I havent measured that yet, I need to raise it back up to stock height and take measurements again) but Im sure its worse than stock.

1998 dodge avenger 4 cyl AT
Mods are:
Not enough

so basically, agility would be improved (it would transfer weight quicker from left to right) but steady cornering grip would be lessened?

1995 Eagle Talon ESi

and one of the biggest problems IMO is the lesser shock travel. doesnt matter how well the car handles if it bounces off the bump stops and cant keep the wheels on the ground.

1998 dodge avenger 4 cyl AT
Mods are:
Not enough

I don't think that I would say that the agility is improved. Transferring weight is one thing, but throwing weight is another. How quickly a chassis transfers weight is a factor of chassis stiffness. The quantity of weight transferred is a factor of the vehicle weight, the spring rate, the ME of the anti-roll/torsion/sway bars, and the roll couple length.

I wouldn't think that a longer roll couple would ever be a good thing.

yeah the shortest and lowest roll couple is best.

1998 dodge avenger 4 cyl AT
Mods are:
Not enough

Alright, my answer was a bit demure.

Under no circumstances do you EVER, given the choice, want a longer roll couple. It requires stiffer springs (think HARSHER ride), and much thicker sway/anti-roll/torsion bars.