#9361, "So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).."
So i'm sure i'll miss something here but over christmas break from school i want to do some major stuff to the car. I am going to tell you either what i have or am going to have and I need to know what i'm missing/don't need, etc.
I already have a hard uic pipe, and a 1g bov, and K&N open element.
After this I don't plan on upgrading much more except for injectors and SAFC to manage it. So here is what i have or am going to get.
14b FMIC 2 1/2" exhaust (don't think i will ever push the limits of it so 3" unnecassary?) 2 1/2" DP 2 1/4" IC piping (all of the piping and exhaust will be custom) walabro 255 MBC hard intake pipe (do i need this, will it make a difference?)
So with this i would hope to be low 14's to 13's but not too sure. I'm sure i forgot something i've previously thought of. But is there anything i'm forgetting or should get?
With this setup on stock injectors and no fuel management what psi should i run?
Also with just that stuff how much psi can i push out of the 14b when i upgrade injectors? And what size injectors should i get when i do purchase them?
I appreciate your help. Thanks.
http://home.bendcable.com/optimuspeterson <<<<HRC Stage 2 and Star Instructions 95 Eclipse - SOLD | 93 BMW 318is - SOLD | 2000 S-10 Extreme on 20's - SOLD 93 Toyota/shaved/bagged/body dropped - SOLD | 97 GSX - SOLD 2006 Scion tC
#9362, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 0 Nov-23-04 08:54 AM by HybriDSM
Originally posted by optimuspeterson So i'm sure i'll miss something here but over christmas break from school i want to do some major stuff to the car. I am going to tell you either what i have or am going to have and I need to know what i'm missing/don't need, etc. I already have a hard uic pipe, and a 1g bov, and K&N open element. After this I don't plan on upgrading much more except for injectors and SAFC to manage it. So here is what i have or am going to get. 14b FMIC 2 1/2" exhaust (don't think i will ever push the limits of it so 3" unnecassary?) 2 1/2" DP 2 1/4" IC piping (all of the piping and exhaust will be custom) walabro 255 MBC hard intake pipe (do i need this, will it make a difference?) So with this i would hope to be low 14's to 13's but not too sure. I'm sure i forgot something i've previously thought of. But is there anything i'm forgetting or should get? With this setup on stock injectors and no fuel management what psi should i run? Also with just that stuff how much psi can i push out of the 14b when i upgrade injectors? And what size injectors should i get when i do purchase them? I appreciate your help. Thanks.
You can run low 13's/high 12's with MBC, Exhaust, Filter, Clutch/PP, SAFC and FP. You'll not want to exceed 14-15 psi without being able to manage fuel though.
The FMIC is a bit of a premature thought at this point. If you aren't getting a 3" exhaust, I'd stay with a SMIC (upgraded Supra SMIC eventually) since you'll likely not desire enough power to need 3" or FMIC. At this point, you are kind of jumping around the sequence with what you mentioned, so I would spend a little more time reading up before buying anything.
Have you looked through the DSMTuners and MachV upgrade paths yet?
The 190 lph FP is contingent on your genuinely not wanting to exceed certain power levels. If you think you may one day want a big HP machine, get a 255 lph, FMIC and 3" exhaust. You don't want to have to rebuy things later, so making that decision now could be important.
#9363, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 1 Nov-23-04 09:10 AM by optimuspeterson
yes i have read the upgrade paths. I am getting a good deal on a used 255 pump so that is why i went with that. I'm auto so no need for the clutch. I have a boost gauge on the way.
I went with the FMIC (plus i'm getting good deal on one from somonee local) because the little ricer in me finaly wants a FMIC cause my last one was the SMIC on the GS. Plus i will get a much better deal on the piping when the guy does my exhaust.
And you talk about a FP? whats that fuel pressure something? I was curious if i would need a FPR. I live in the dorms so i can't work on my car so i am doing a bunch of stuff at once. All of that stuff above in my previous post will be done at the same time.
EDIT: oh i assume you mean FP as in fuel pump. I'm an idiot. lol
http://home.bendcable.com/optimuspeterson <<<<HRC Stage 2 and Star Instructions 95 Eclipse - SOLD | 93 BMW 318is - SOLD | 2000 S-10 Extreme on 20's - SOLD 93 Toyota/shaved/bagged/body dropped - SOLD | 97 GSX - SOLD 2006 Scion tC
#9364, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 2
You don't "need" a FMIC. You could spend your money much much better elsewhere despite the good deal. I understand the ricer pull (I vent my BOV, correctly, and love it for the sound plus its ease having the MAF after the BOV and subsequent lack of tubing to reroute) but make sure it's effective and ricey, not just for rice's sake.
Again, this is all contingent on not wanting to exceed a certain power level. You'll need the FMIC with a bigger turbo. You may even want it with the 14b, but I just want to express that you can spend the money more effectively by buying some other things off the bat.
#9365, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 3 Nov-23-04 12:58 PM by FlyinEsi
I think you are kind of contradicting yourself. You say you don't need a 3" exhaust but you want to get into the 13's. I think you will want to go with a 3" exhaust to push that kind of psi and you might as well add a 2.5" pre-flex pipe to 3" post-flex pipe DP since you are building it all anyway. Go bigger now because you will want it/need it later. Plus I think 2.5" exhaust is only recommended up to like 12psi anyways on our cars.
Just my guessing, but I think you will need about 18psi to get into the 13's along with some 550's or bigger injectors. To run the 18psi it is best to have the FMIC, which you are getting, and when you have the Walbro, I would suggest an AFPR, www.speedandthrottle.com has a good one for ~$140.
#9367, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 5 Nov-23-04 02:35 PM by optimuspeterson
Originally posted by Jeff_99gs Auto? The very first thing you should do is a shift kit and end clutch kit. It makes a HUGE difference.
does it make it terrible for daily driving? I've read a little about the shift kit. I have an electronic shift kit on my s10 and on its hardest setting it is a stiff freakin shit. I wouldn't want to have that all the time on my eclipse since it will be a daily driver. I understand it would make a big difference but cons would out weigh the pros.
also, if there is something else i should get instead of the fmic for cost reasons then what is it. Its not i'm only getting the stuff above because thats all i can afford but because thats what i decided to do now.
EDIT: what is a APFR? your link doesn't work.
Its not i can't go 3" but i just didn't think i needed it and i didn't wanted to prevent boost creep as much as possible.
Believe me, all of your advice is much appreciated. thanks.
http://home.bendcable.com/optimuspeterson <<<<HRC Stage 2 and Star Instructions 95 Eclipse - SOLD | 93 BMW 318is - SOLD | 2000 S-10 Extreme on 20's - SOLD 93 Toyota/shaved/bagged/body dropped - SOLD | 97 GSX - SOLD 2006 Scion tC
#9368, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 5 Nov-23-04 02:42 PM by eclipzGST
Originally posted by Jeff_99gs Auto? The very first thing you should do is a shift kit and end clutch kit. It makes a HUGE difference.
It's also pretty cheap too. Is that 255 the low pres or high? If it's the high pressure, you'll need an adjustable fuel pressure regulator (AFPR). As far as everything else goes, try to not have to do things twice. If you'll eventually need a FMIC, get it now. That way, you won't need to have the piping done again later and you can just have it custom made to work with the front mount and 14B. You'll be needing a J-pipe to make the 14B play nice and if you'll be using the SMIC, the J-pipe will need to bend one way and if for a FMIC, it'll go the other way. It won't really hurt anything having it now anyway. Same with the exaust, why upgrade again later if you can get it done now... Kepp us posted with your progress and let us know if you need any more suggestions. You do seem to be on the right track though.
edit: Check the OD on the inlet/outlet on the FMIC before you have the piping made. You may need to go with 2.5".
__________________________________________________________ -Tony <--- NOT asian. '06 Wicked White EVO IX
Originally posted by Avenger When I raise the BS flag ... it's a really big fucking flag and I raise it really fucking high too.
"Never whistle while your pissing." ~The illuminatus Trilogy
#9369, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 7 Nov-23-04 02:51 PM by optimuspeterson
oh, APFR. adjustable FPR. got ya.
what is this J pipe? not part of normal piping when i do the plumbing for the intercooler? I know i need the oil line so i have that coming. I won't be making the piping before i have the IC so i won't do the wrong size. I just already had the UIC so i wanted to try and just use that and stay with 2 1/4.
Also i was unaware of there being 2 different kinds of pumps. I've had one on the GS but didn't know there were different ones out there. never seen them advertised differently
and ok,ok i will get 3". lol
http://home.bendcable.com/optimuspeterson <<<<HRC Stage 2 and Star Instructions 95 Eclipse - SOLD | 93 BMW 318is - SOLD | 2000 S-10 Extreme on 20's - SOLD 93 Toyota/shaved/bagged/body dropped - SOLD | 97 GSX - SOLD 2006 Scion tC
#9370, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 8
There are 2 walbro pumps, the 190 (low) and 255 (high). Same thing as everything else, go with the better now, I think they are the same price anyway.
For the AFPR, sorry about the link, I typed the wrong part of their name, www.fullthrottlespeed.com. Bolts up to the fuel rail and has a spot for a manual fuel pressure gauge built in if you want it.
#9371, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 9
got ya about the FP. i thought he was talking about two different models for the 255 itself.
http://home.bendcable.com/optimuspeterson <<<<HRC Stage 2 and Star Instructions 95 Eclipse - SOLD | 93 BMW 318is - SOLD | 2000 S-10 Extreme on 20's - SOLD 93 Toyota/shaved/bagged/body dropped - SOLD | 97 GSX - SOLD 2006 Scion tC
#9373, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 11
ok, since i haven't even hardly looked unde the hood of this car (been parked since i got it and i've been busy with school) does the t25 not have anything like that at all? So the J-pipe is a must i am assuming.
http://home.bendcable.com/optimuspeterson <<<<HRC Stage 2 and Star Instructions 95 Eclipse - SOLD | 93 BMW 318is - SOLD | 2000 S-10 Extreme on 20's - SOLD 93 Toyota/shaved/bagged/body dropped - SOLD | 97 GSX - SOLD 2006 Scion tC
#9374, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 10 Nov-23-04 04:18 PM by HybriDSM
Originally posted by optimuspeterson got ya about the FP. i thought he was talking about two different models for the 255 itself.
There are two models of the 255 (and the 190 for that matter) A regular one and a high pressure one. Each size has both options.
www.autoperformanceengineering.com (click on 'applications', then 'mitsubishi/eagle/diamond star' and you'll see each version of the 190 and 255.
Also, the J-pipe is a j shaped pipe that goes up (towards the hood) first and then turns down to get towards the IC outlet. It looks like a letter 'J'. It's common to 2gs.
#9375, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 12
so if the j pipe goes towards the IC will it being going towards the stock intercooler or would it beable to go either way. the fmic has outlets on both sides.
so if the fmic i'm gettin has outlets on both sides then is the j pipe the way i still wanna go?
http://home.bendcable.com/optimuspeterson <<<<HRC Stage 2 and Star Instructions 95 Eclipse - SOLD | 93 BMW 318is - SOLD | 2000 S-10 Extreme on 20's - SOLD 93 Toyota/shaved/bagged/body dropped - SOLD | 97 GSX - SOLD 2006 Scion tC
#9377, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 15
ok, i got you, i finally found a pic and understoud exactly what i was looking at and had something else completly different pictured in my head.
http://home.bendcable.com/optimuspeterson <<<<HRC Stage 2 and Star Instructions 95 Eclipse - SOLD | 93 BMW 318is - SOLD | 2000 S-10 Extreme on 20's - SOLD 93 Toyota/shaved/bagged/body dropped - SOLD | 97 GSX - SOLD 2006 Scion tC
#9378, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 16
make sure you have your J-Pipe go to the left side of the car into the FMIC and the FMIC outlet come out the right side and up to the throttle body. Much nicer looking, and much less piping.
#9379, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 17 Nov-23-04 07:02 PM by eclipzGST
yes, there are 2 different versions of the 255 fp. As for the j-pipe, on the T-25, the turbo has an elbow that directs the piping toward the SMIC. On a 14B/16G, the outlet points almost straight up therefore, you'll need to have a flanged elbow to direct the piping towards the intercooler. If you were just going to use a SMIC, you would have one that points towards the passenger side of the car. When using a FMIC, you'll need to have it face the drivers side to the inlet on the intercooler. The outlet is on the other side and you'll have a pretty straight shot for the upper intercooler pipe to head towards the throttle body. Here is a pic of mine:
notice how the pipe comes out of the turbo almost straight up, hooks back down and then curves toward the drivers side of the car.
__________________________________________________________ -Tony <--- NOT asian. '06 Wicked White EVO IX
Originally posted by Avenger When I raise the BS flag ... it's a really big fucking flag and I raise it really fucking high too.
"Never whistle while your pissing." ~The illuminatus Trilogy
#9381, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 19
Originally posted by BMPDirk does the ac fan always have to come out when using a 16g with fmic?
Nope. It depends on the way the IC piping is routed and what kind of piping you get. Many FMICs have both the inlet and outlet on the passenger side of the car, so the piping doesn't even get near the A/C fan. (Big Greddy FMIC and HRC FMIC for example).
#9383, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 21
Well yes, but the incredibly long piping certainly hurts you in the long run. Plus the fact that the crossover pipe blocks a lot of air to the radiator.
#9384, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 22
Originally posted by Jeff_99gs Well yes, but the incredibly long piping certainly hurts you in the long run. Plus the fact that the crossover pipe blocks a lot of air to the radiator.
I don't think the crossover pipe really blocks any more than usual. There is a black plastic piece behind the bumper that the crossover pipe goes under. So it is really not restricting anything. Just extra long pipes.
#9385, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 23
My j-pipe was custom and my car wasn't there when he did it so I kinda got what I got... I have a SPAL fan here that I've yet to install. His piping will have to go the same way as mine because he said his inlet/outlet are on opposite sides. That was why I posted the pic of mine.
__________________________________________________________ -Tony <--- NOT asian. '06 Wicked White EVO IX
Originally posted by Avenger When I raise the BS flag ... it's a really big fucking flag and I raise it really fucking high too.
"Never whistle while your pissing." ~The illuminatus Trilogy
#9386, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 23
Originally posted by FlyinEsi I don't think the crossover pipe really blocks any more than usual. There is a black plastic piece behind the bumper that the crossover pipe goes under. So it is really not restricting anything. Just extra long pipes.
If you saw the HRC FMIC you would be amazed at how much more room there is under there.
#9387, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 25
Optimus im glad you went 4g63, hell yeah! i bought that turbo kit you sold me if you didnt remember... but yeah idk my 4 best mods imo are IC piping, Cams, 3 inch downpipe, and upping the boost... lol do those and you will def. be in the 13s i was..
Boca Raton, Florida 95 Eclipse GS- sold 99 Eclipse GSX- 386awhp 98 Eclipse GS- sold 92 Prelude
#9388, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 26
dont get a 3inch dp youll end up haveing boost creep problems. i would suggest 2.5 inch to a hiflo cat to a 3inch exhaust, and have an o2 dump to make sure you dont creep up to far.
i recomend the fp install kit, or take it up to a dsm shop and have them install it for $250 with their leftover 1g parts.
mbc doesnt really matter, i use the mbc's sold on ebay from seller srpbrent and they work fine on all the cars i have installed them on.
for fuel i recomend the 190lph, just as stated above. dont buy a used fuel pump, be safe and get a new 190lph so you wont need to buy a fuel pressure regulator.
also instead of fmic id go with a supra sidemount, they are good for about 300hp till they get heatsoaked.
a set of har upper intercooler pipes of ebay will set you back about $150, i would reccomend those and a hard intake, it will definetly make the bov louder if it does nothing else.
and lastly i would reccomend not to be skimpy on a boost gauge. its the most important part of your engines life so id get a greddy, even tho they all do the same thing.
#9389, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 27
Originally posted by chrysler kid dont get a 3inch dp youll end up haveing boost creep problems. i would suggest 2.5 inch to a hiflo cat to a 3inch exhaust, and have an o2 dump to make sure you dont creep up to far.
I have 3" turbo back on both of my cars and don't have any problems with boost creep...
_____________________________________ Scott 90' GSX, 06' Effo SSL
#9391, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 29 Nov-26-04 07:57 AM by Jeff_99gs
I had a 3" exhaust on my 14B with no dump at all and zero boost creep. You just have to properly port the wastegate hole, turbo outlet, and o2 housing.
My college roommate had a Big 16G with a 3" downpipe, test pipe, and 3.5" exhaust with no boost creep problems either.
Also Autometer makes a fine boost gauge for $45. Fuck the Greddy gauges unless you REALLY need peak/hold and you have a lot of money burning a hole in your pocket.
And I really would recommend the Walbro 255 pump over the 190. Changing fuel pumps is one of the most annoying and time consuming things you can do on a DSM. Especially the older DSMs. Get the right pump the first time. It is $105 shipped from www.autoperformanceengineering.com. Do not get the high pressure one and you won't even need to get an aftermarket FPR. I swear people think the Walbro 255 needs an aftermarket FPR because they are morons and get the high pressure pump. I get 400 miles to the tank in my Talon in 12's trim on pump gas with the stock FPR and Walbro 255.
#9392, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 30
Originally posted by Jeff_99gs I had a 3" exhaust on my 14B with no dump at all and zero boost creep. You just have to properly port the wastegate hole, turbo outlet, and o2 housing. My college roommate had a Big 16G with a 3" downpipe, test pipe, and 3.5" exhaust with no boost creep problems either. Also Autometer makes a fine boost gauge for $45. Fuck the Greddy gauges unless you REALLY need peak/hold and you have a lot of money burning a hole in your pocket. And I really would recommend the Walbro 255 pump over the 190. Changing fuel pumps is one of the most annoying and time consuming things you can do on a DSM. Especially the older DSMs. Get the right pump the first time. It is $105 shipped from www.autoperformanceengineering.com. Do not get the high pressure one and you won't even need to get an aftermarket FPR. I swear people think the Walbro 255 needs an aftermarket FPR because they are morons and get the high pressure pump. I get 400 miles to the tank in my Talon in 12's trim on pump gas with the stock FPR and Walbro 255.
yup, yup. I get a little creep with my EVOIII 16G because I didn't do enough porting. 19psi is fine for my setup anyway. Jeffs right about the walbro 255. Make sure you get the LOW pressure one and you're good to go. Although, switching pumps is cake on a 2G. Also, if you like the peak boost feature from the gREDDY guages, and need a turbo timer, BLiTZ Dual TT also has boost and peak boost. It's electronic too so it's pretty accurate. I had an autometer guage in my car that I swapped over from my Talon and I never even look at it because the turbotimer sits right where I can see it and it's much easier to glance down that over to the pillar.
__________________________________________________________ -Tony <--- NOT asian. '06 Wicked White EVO IX
Originally posted by Avenger When I raise the BS flag ... it's a really big fucking flag and I raise it really fucking high too.
"Never whistle while your pissing." ~The illuminatus Trilogy
#9393, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 29
Originally posted by chrysler kid i use to have a 3inch exhaust on my 16g and it wouldnt stop creeping, even with an o2 dump, im using some of my experience to give advice. thanks and there is a big difference if you are running an external wastegate, you forgot to mention you have one of those in your above post
Yes my GSX has a external wastegate but my GS has a internal wastegate and both are 3" exhausts... Whats the point??
_____________________________________ Scott 90' GSX, 06' Effo SSL
#9394, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 32
Without proper porting, a smaller turbo will creep with the large exhaust diameter. People just starting to mod these cars need to understand that one cannot just buy a 3" exhaust and go out and have a good time on a T-25, 14b etc.
Getting a 3" means large turbo or heavily ported small turbo.
#9395, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 33
Originally posted by HybriDSM Without proper porting, a smaller turbo will creep with the large exhaust diameter. People just starting to mod these cars need to understand that one cannot just buy a 3" exhaust and go out and have a good time on a T-25, 14b etc. Getting a 3" means large turbo or heavily ported small turbo.
or just set up the fuel to match the boost the turbo creeps to.
__________________________________________________________ -Tony <--- NOT asian. '06 Wicked White EVO IX
Originally posted by Avenger When I raise the BS flag ... it's a really big fucking flag and I raise it really fucking high too.
"Never whistle while your pissing." ~The illuminatus Trilogy
#9396, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 34
i have a 14b i could sell ya. ive had it in my closet for the past year and a half, and i dont think im gunna install it cause im tired of dealin with smog issues and whatnot. email me at eclipsinemcee7@comcast.net if your interested
#9397, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 35
I had creep on my my 16g until i went external. It is a proven fact that it is because of the wastegate hole. Just get the Bullseye power turbine housings with a 38mm flapper....shouldn't creep at all.
_____________________________________________ Jerrome B. 1995 GSX - Race 1997 GST - Drive 1995 GST - Who the hell knows
#9398, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 36
Originally posted by BigBald I had creep on my my 16g until i went external. It is a proven fact that it is because of the wastegate hole. Just get the Bullseye power turbine housings with a 38mm flapper....shouldn't creep at all.
Well it is hardly "proven" since thousands of people can use an internal wastegate on a 16g with no problems at all. Install a 34mm flapper and port the hole to match and you are good to go.
#9399, "RE: So here is what i'd like to do with the my new GSX (need advice).." In response to Reply # 37
Originally posted by Jeff_99gs
Originally posted by BigBald I had creep on my my 16g until i went external. It is a proven fact that it is because of the wastegate hole. Just get the Bullseye power turbine housings with a 38mm flapper....shouldn't creep at all.
Well it is hardly "proven" since thousands of people can use an internal wastegate on a 16g with no problems at all. Install a 34mm flapper and port the hole to match and you are good to go.
agreed---I can hold ludicrously small amounts of boost if I should ever want to-- don't bother externally gating a 16g, not worth it IMHFO
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Black 98 GST missing her owner and looking for a new one...Inquiries welcome
