I have my engine 420A out and i am ready to build a really fast all motor street/strip car. Does anyone have any ideas?

200-220whp get a 2.4 hicomp ported head 22crane cams and port the intake little bit of timing advance and youd be in the 225-250whp range.

add some nitrous and you'll be set.

You can have it cheap, fast or good. Pick any two.

If you want it cheap and fast, it's not going to be good.
If you want it cheap and good, it's not going to be fast.
If you want it good and fast, it's not going to be cheap.

well if you want all motor isnt that no nitrous? but you can go higher compression 10.5-12.5 get all the head work done probley like over a a grand and a half of head work. you can use the 2.2 forged crank setup from FTY personally i would just buy the crank from them and build it myself and have a shop do just hte boring and shit. definitally has a good computer set up. and be prepared to pay out the ass for gas.

Rockin the INDY DSM club

you can hope for 200hp n/a in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first:-) well lets just say its pretty hard to do. hi-comp, cams, port and polish intake, built head, free flowing exhaust, an intake and a whole lot of tuning.

myspace.com/coastiecobb

On top of all the money you are going to spend on tuning, parts, etc, once you get to 220 HP you are going to have such high performance parts in your car that your drivability is going to go downhill.

1/4 Mile: 17.4651 | 1/4 MPH: 76.69 @ 7,000 ft
www.geocities.com/rockyourworld182/

We'll see just how driveable it will be this summer. Won't we?

I think you will find getting 200+ WHP very, very, difficult, not to mention expensive. Hell, at 13 psi UNTUNED, i neted 230 WHP. This is with boost! You can get all the highcompression you want, all the performance parts money can buy for a NA setup, but to make this a streetable car, you wont get close to that much WHP N/A. I'm just being realistic here. Even 200 WHP, if you got it there N/A, wont be a really fast car, mostly becasue we have heavy ass cars. To utilize the most of the N/A power, you will have to do lots of weight reduction, gutting, ect..Now if you just plan to have one drag car only, no street use, then by all means, try to impress us with spending loads of money to reach 200+ HP N/A. It would be really cool to see it, but IMO, the only good thing about trying to do this is for the "hasnt been done" factor. If you really want to go fast in these cars, forced induction/ N2o is the only "best" way to do it. But I wont go into the cost effectiveness of using those methods of power

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

Ive got alot of stuff and hopefully ill make it to 200whp but im not sure ill still have to dyno the SAFC, CAM GEARS, and Ignition

I don't see a 2.0L putting out 200+whp without a stand alone.

High compression, built up, ported/polished, preferably quad TB's and a stand alone, is my basic map to 200whp.



http://www.exileracing.com
una salus victus
Mods List: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/sig.htm

My head is milled in the .035" range, maybe a little bit more.



http://www.exileracing.com
una salus victus
Mods List: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/sig.htm

The only solution to the question can I, is how much money are you willing to spend? Seriosly call the sure fire Mopar builders @ Koffel's place 2 and tell them you would like to get atleats 200hp on the dyno jet all motor and see what they suggest. I literally have my s/s motor in pieces next to me right now and it still amazes me seeing the machine work put into that sucker. On boost I'm looking @ 360-400ch and thats out of a 86 2.2 chrysler T-2 motor. If Koffel's can do that then they can get 200hp out of a DOHC moto

TeamLSR member @ landspeedracing.com

Yeah I have heard some good things about that place.

____________________________________________________
four nails four corners four riders and four horses

Originally posted by DSMkarz
The only solution to the question can I, is how much money are you willing to spend? Seriosly call the sure fire Mopar builders @ Koffel's place 2 and tell them you would like to get atleats 200hp on the dyno jet all motor and see what they suggest. I literally have my s/s motor in pieces next to me right now and it still amazes me seeing the machine work put into that sucker. On boost I'm looking @ 360-400ch and thats out of a 86 2.2 chrysler T-2 motor. If Koffel's can do that then they can get 200hp out of a DOHC moto

You can have it cheap, fast or good. Pick any two.

If you want it cheap and fast, it's not going to be good.
If you want it cheap and good, it's not going to be fast.
If you want it good and fast, it's not going to be cheap.

OK guys PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THIS IS NOT BASHING ANYONE...this was a post i did over at dsmtuners.com...turbo guys were saying us n/a guys are gay and crappy..i hate people who got not respect for both worlds. i love turbo, i just dont want it yet..anyways i wanted to see what u guys thought about my post, think im wrong????

""""OK WOW…There are some real stupid people here. Let me clear a few things up. First off, forged internals do nothing but make your 420a TAKE the power thrown at it. Second .020 over, we all no that’s nothing, all you do that for is to make sure your cylinder walls are nice and fresh when rebuilding. Its does nothing for power, and yes those pistons will TAKE power, but on the dyno it will do nothing, your actually running a tad bit lower compression with those pistons. Ok now to bag on you turbo people...Yes, we N/A people are not Honda’s we don’t run 12’s all motor or even close…But we can make good power out of our N/A motors. I should no, I beat GST/GSX all the time. And im a GS N/A. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE turbo, there no question turbo is probably the most logical for power per dollar, but some of us don’t want to go turbo, and want to laugh when we beat gst’s. check if im wrong on my estimates here
GST to the wheels has around 195 HP
GS to the wheels has around 125
Now let’s do my mod list

CHR Racing Stage 3 ported head, 3 angle valve job, ported Intake Manifold, and upgraded valve springs… Around 35 WHP
Crower Stage 2 Cams, around 15 WHP
Fidanza Adjustable Cam Gears, around 7 WHP
Unorthodox Racing Crank Pulley 5 WHP
Ice Man CAI Around 4 WHP
Apxi Exhaust 5 WHP
AC Header (From UK) Around 7 WHP (in use with ported head)
OBX Fuel Rail is 4 WHP
Milled Deck to raise Compression around 10 WHP
other mods that are not so much power, NGK VForce spark plugs, MSD ignition, Off-road-cat, Grounding system, rebuilt bottom end .020 over new pistons.

I hit Around 215 Hp To my wheels, BYBY GST!!! And yes, my next paycheck im dynoing it, I need the 50 bux first though

But Waite, I also have a sneaky Pete NOS system to hit 35 shot. That’s an extra 20-25 to my wheels. So Waite, now im at 240-250 to my wheels. Ok now, im killing a gst with mods. Hahahahahaha no crank walk or turbo lag...

You turbo guys need to read up and do a little math. Look and see for your self’s, your fu***** stupid. All eclipses are awesome…just whatever ur tastes are…

stupid people make me laugh so hard..


intake stock:-----ported:
.050" 52.8---------52.7 cfm
.100 93.4---------93.8
.150 120.8--------124.5
.200 143.6--------147.3
.250 164.7--------172.1
.300 181.9--------197.4
.350 194.8--------216.3
.400 204.1--------231.6
.450 211.2--------242.0
.500 215.2--------249.8
.550 218.7---------254.0

Exhaust stock ported
.050" 35.3 ------39.0
.100 58.1--------60.2
.150 91.9---------95.0
.200 120.9--------128.1
.250 137.1--------154.9
.300 145.5---------167.6
.350 151.1----------179.2
.400 150.8------------186.5
.450 same--------------189.1
.500 same--------------191.8

this is all stright from the flow bench

SO SHUT Up"""""""


leme no!!!!

thanks

um ur numbers add up to 182...plus ur 25 shot=207 supposed WHP so as far as you sayin bye bye to a GS-T...um...maybe a BONE STOCK one with a REAL BAD driver...but thats about all...

SoCal Meet Sept 04'

you cant be serious..lmaooo

ok let me help you

125+35+15+7+5+4+5+7+4+10=217

then 25 of nitrous to the wheels
= 242

lol come dude....


so anyways, back to me having 215 WHP off the bottle....

missed the 35...hehe mah bad...either way, i dont believe you...need to see ur dyno then i will...until then, u talk mucho.

Anyway, you spend all that cash to BARELY beat a STOCK GS-T...go turbo spend all that cash, you'll be puttin down numbers like siueclipse...now thats a beast...341WHP DYNOED..

SoCal Meet Sept 04'

I'd have kept the name calling out of it. Not going to gain respect by bashing.

You can't do whp math. If this give you 10whop, and this gives you 5 whp. I'm going to have 15whp. Unfortunately it doesnt work like that. The whole is a sum of it's parts. Some mods will do more on their own than than as a part of two mods. Some will will do more in combination with others. The proof is in a dyno sheet or a time slip.

I also think you are a bit optamistic with your power estimates, 35 whp from a ported head, is really stretching it if you ask me, especially as a stand alone number. 4whp from a fuel rail? Our stock fuel rails flow just fine. Again this all comes down to making the parts work together, and the more you do this, the fuzzier your numbers get as to what power came from where.

And trying to have an intelligent NA conversation on DSM tooners, is like french kissing an electric socket. It might be interesting at first, but in the long run just painful.



http://www.exileracing.com
una salus victus
Mods List: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/sig.htm

and another thing it doesn't matter how much power a turbo has it is how little lag you have. And when my car only had about 115 to the wheels i beat a stock turbo. And a stock turbo has 165whp and i had 115. The turbo is slow. It takes 300whp turbo to beat a 200whp all motor. And who wan't lag. When i push that pedal i want that sweet sound of the High compresion and Cams loping.

I hope i get 200 or more wheel horse power i know i got enough stuff. And with the proper tuning

I sure hope you make the shootout in Norwalk, OH this summer, son.
*edited - for correct location*

And, here's a tip for you. If you think to add something to apost you just made within about an hour, you can click the "edit" link next to reply and add to it instead of adding another post there. Just some FYI.

well people my point is, alot of people said you cant get 200-220 whp..wich is BS...the only logical argument there is, that my numbers could be off, but the fact is they cant be off by THAT much...fine, take off 25 hp, im still proving all them wrong...ill be on the dyno soon...'till then..

I just want to say I look forward to seeing a dyno slip cuz I'm really thinking of staying N/A and just tweaking my setup a little...wanna see what I have to look forward to.

---Harry. My car topped out at 140 this morning. I need "turvo." Two of 'em. And Harry, I need the glue to be dry by tonight.---








engine:Je Forged pistons .20
Eagle connecting rods
crankscraper
3-angle valve job
mild p/p
Crower stage 2 cams
Crowers valve springs
Aem cam gears
Pacesetter 4-2-1 headers
AEM V2 CAI
Unorthodox underdrive pulley
Final Drive gears from 99 Stratus
Transgo shift kit
Hayden 6 pass trans. cooler

just a sneaky peat nitrous with a 50 shot nozzle hide in under your passenger seat cushion like tftf rx-7 when your ready to prove yourself at 200 whp take my addvice a talker always looks worse when they can't back it up ,but if you can then all props to you,see you at the track

emrald green 95 esi ,custom ram air , msd ignition,bored tb, afx udp,pacesetter headers,individualy grounded hotter plugs,half way gutted interior 2610 lbs stock wheels no more ac completly removed including all the brackets no more powersteering 50 shot zex
http://members.cardomain.com/tonyz007
14.4 96mph best

why am i stupid?
do you have anything ? nothing...thats what i thought
or do you just say im stupid becuase my numbers are right, and i am right...you dont no shi*..keep with ur cool widebody, cuz u dont no shi* about power

im gonna let dwayne rip on you for that last post cause im sure he will ^^

okay there are some corrections here ill eat my hat if that fuel rail makes more power na. we run rich as it is.

ported head 35whp maybe dont know your port guy well enough
neons have seen upwards to 50whp ON a 2.4 block na.

you cant add single mods together like you did cause things just dont fly that way.
you stock horsepower at the wheels i probably rpetty close to 115whp thats logical im not so sure your gonna hit 240whp with your setup
you would need closer to a 75-100shot for that

200whp froma 2.0 no standalone and no power addrs like nitrous or boost is very hard to do..

things like rotating mass forged internal weight. flywheel weight. start to play in big time because you are trying to squeeze every hp out of it.

the track to 200whp is a long road and costs a grip but it can be done im not sure with you current mods you are their yet. robably closer to 170whp and thats generous (without nitrous)


i understand where you come from everyone rips on na guys because they generally talk smack..

things that would help you getting some type of timing advance device, and maybe a mega squirt to lean you out to gain those extra ponies.

a crank scraper or true windage tray might be a good idea for ya too..

i hope that you do hit 200whp

You can have it cheap, fast or good. Pick any two.

If you want it cheap and fast, it's not going to be good.
If you want it cheap and good, it's not going to be fast.
If you want it good and fast, it's not going to be cheap.

if your looking to get every ounce of power might want to think about boring out the cylinders to a 120-160 over.

knife edging the crank aluminum flywheel
putpose built very light pistons and maybe some grp aluminum rods.

i would advice a better intake manifold if you dont know where to find one ill point you in the proper direction.

for 200whp you will need a better header not one of these over the counter type a true 28" primary 13/4 design tri y design prefered in this situation.

a 60mm tb might be something to think about

if your true;y in for 200whp time for some crane 20 or 22 cams and some 11:1 compression.
12.5:1 would be best for 22's

a unorthodox 48% underdrven neon crank pulley would be the best udp you could get although youd loose p/s and a/c

and one of them howell ecus could be an advantage =P

goodluck

You can have it cheap, fast or good. Pick any two.

If you want it cheap and fast, it's not going to be good.
If you want it cheap and good, it's not going to be fast.
If you want it good and fast, it's not going to be cheap.

This has been pretty good thread, keep it that way, STOP the name calling.

Now back on topic.

The unfortunate fact is, you cannot add up hp/torque production. Because one mod give you 10 whp on a stock engine, and another gives you 10 whp on a stock engine, putting bth mods on doesn mean you gain 20 whp. You may be freeing up some of the same power with the mods. Some mods add low end power, some add high end power. Some raise the mid range torque. Not all power mods add peak hp at the exact same spot in the power band. Some take away parts of the power band in sacrafice for adding it elsewhere. The only true way to do it is to build it, tune it, dyno it, then you will know.

I do think we can make some good power numbers NA.
Will I go turbo? Eh some day, probably when I get a new toy and make the Eclipse my daily driver, and retire the Neon. The turbo is more civil. Which is one of the reason I like going NA.



http://www.exileracing.com
una salus victus
Mods List: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/sig.htm

Even then, actually gaining 10 whp from a single mod is a very tough feat. Only something drastic like cams might be able to produce that.


For example, on my 2gnt, a CAI only netted me an additional 5 hp, and an exhaust approx 4.


Think about what you're asking. 200 WHP, coming from a car that starts at 120... and NO power adders! If you're going to manage that, you're going to need more displacement, MUCH improved air/fuel, and higher revs.

I'd start with a 2.4L motor, bore it to 2.6 (as I believe someone did on this site, I haven't paid way too much attention), get 11:1 or bigger pistons, upgrade fuel components, and THEN start doing everything else. For the same price of putting all this together, you could buy yourself a second eclipse.

It sounds as if the race to get that 200whp is on like Donky Kong these days at 2GNT.com.

I'm just going to stick to my plan of attack and work to being the fastest stock-displacement all-motor 420a DSM.

I can't wait to roll up on the dyno at the shootout and make jaws drop. I know with Michael's help and the input from the rest of the gurus here we can get it done.

I better see Dwayne's car at the shootout too. (hint, hint)

*Skrilla
"Honest officer, I thought you were trying to race me"
Talon: 1st 2.4L
'97 Prelude
'04 350Z

Originally posted by etx
Good luck man! Project 'STFU Brian your talon is dead meat' should be on it's feet soon!

I really wouldn't want to push it more than .060" over.



http://www.exileracing.com
una salus victus
Mods List: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/sig.htm

Originally posted by Michael_97RS
I really wouldn't want to push it more than .060" over. http://www.exileracing.com una salus victus Mods List: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/sig.htm

*Skrilla
"Honest officer, I thought you were trying to race me"
Talon: 1st 2.4L
'97 Prelude
'04 350Z

Originally posted by etx
Good luck man! Project 'STFU Brian your talon is dead meat' should be on it's feet soon!

i dont bash until these stupid turbo guys keep saying na is no good for power...you have no clue..im gussing at my numbers, thats why i said around, and i no i dont have a dyno sheet yet...i will, and i will have round 200 whp... my numbers are just to get a idea of what i will be hitting, im not saying, yes look everyone i will have these exact numbers.....people who say it takes alot to get 200 whp on a n/a eclipse is trippen...yes you can add up hp numbers to give you an IDEA, of what you will be at..yesyesyes you can...it wont give you your real hp, but it will give you some idea, and thats what im doing here...
200whp is already done people

OH!!! and for the cool guy who said 10 hp is sooo hard, you need some shi* like CAMS to make 10 whp...man...ill prove you wrong now...
go on importtuner.com, search under power pages of a n/a eclipse...there they have 2 power pages...one of the pages has a dyno test of AEM adj. cam gear, and a 50 shot....off the cam gears alone he got 9 WHP...lmao, there you go, now you look stupid..after the 50 shot he had 165 WHP...
never mind here is the link jsut to show you
http://www.importtuner.com/events/0204it_ppeclipse/index.html

165 WHP, of a 50 shot and cam gears...lol...dyno proven...thats to funny...


i already have that...now think of all the other mods i have on that dyno...and ull be thinken my numbers..


thank you

pshhhh

.........................................................................................................................

Built. That's All...
.........................................................................................................................
www.monkeybuttpirate.com
.........................................................................................................................
2 Fingers of Scotch with a milk back... Stat!

200 WHP means you need around 230 Crank HP. (aprox 15% drive train loss with a manual). 230 HP. Stock is around 140 HP at the crank. Simple math tells us that you need to gain 90 HP in mods. With bolt ons, this will be VERY hard to do, yet very costly. Can it be done? I would think so, but its a long, hard, expensive road in doing so. There is no way in hell a set of cams will yeild 50 HP, at least no on the 420A. You have to realize that the 420A in stock form, is already tuned, and valve timing, and camshaft profiles are already up to par pretty well. You can def squeeze more HP from this motor NA, but gains will NOT be 50 HP per mod for cams, or whatever. You will NOT gain 35 HP from a ported intake and head. It just wont happen. Porting on big V8 motors give sizeable gains, mostly because they use carbs, and the entire A/F mixture is coming from them, and travels through the entire intake manifolds. This lets them flow more A/F into the cylinders. With our motors, enlarging the ports is somewhat insignificant, but does help slightly, mostly with the power band/torque curve. You actualy prob wont see much, if ANY HP gains from porting on these motors. A big problem from this is because these motors use a MAP sensor, not a MAF(mass air flow). MAF sensors would be a much better way to measure the amount of air going into the motor, and would prob be a much better way to utilize the added airflow of porting. IMO, a MAP sensor just isnt that sensitive to small gains in airflow. Here are more realisitc gains, in CRANK HORSEPOWER

Ported intake and head- ~10 HP
Aggressive cam- ~ 15-20HP
Raising compression ~10-15HP
UDP- ~5-7HP
CAI- ~3-5HP
ADJ cam gears- ~5-7HP

Thats a basic list of popular NA mods
The total adding onto the stock 140 CHP=

204 CHP. Now, take the 15% drivetrain loss=

173.4 WHP I think this is a very attainable power figure. With some aggressive fine tuning, 180 WHP could be possible. Anything above that, will be VERY hard to do. You have already done most of the big NA power adders in this list. Even so, 180, even 200 WHP, in our 2800+ pound cars, will not be all that fast...Start stripping the car to lose weight, and it becomes less and less of a street car. Its going to already run like shit at idle with the large cams and port work.... And another thing, dont just say you will get around "this much" wheel HP. We can all speculate all day long, but it doesnt mean shit until you actually put the car on the dyno, and get your results. The numbers I have posted here, are pretty accurate numbers, from dyno sessions I have been involved with, on these motors.

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

I'm usually very cool with the new people around here, often being told I'm some sort of "no0b's hero" or something for answering teh dumbest of questions and all that without talking shit, but I have to say xtrickedeclipsex, that for someone who has less than 50 posts here, you really have no idea the type of people you are contradicting.

The people who you are arguing with are not hoping you fail, and they are as far away from "haters" as you can get in the DSM community. They are dyed-in-the-wool tuners who know their shit. These guys have done things with and seen things in 420As that I bet even the engineers who designed them hadn't.

I have rebuilt my bottom end by hand and invested over $2000 in my engine so far. I would be lucky to see 165hp at the crank after some dyno time. To get close enough to even see 220hp at the crank (I still think 230 is possible and it is my goal for this August at the shootout.) I am going to be spending close to another $4000 in headwork and supporting mods like fuel management and ignition adjustment. It is a well-documented fact that any 420a approaching the 200hp mark is going to be pushing the limits of daily driveability. Check the video from the DSM shootout last year and listen to how Micheal's car sounds at idle. If your car is anywhere close to the level of tune that his engine is, you would be in almost complete agreement with everything said in this thread.

We are all here to support you in your goal of making this kind of power, but this is a very different community from DSMtooners, and I'll tell you that playing the bullshit card at this point is doing you and your reputation more harm than good. You should stick around. If you are as close as you say you are to the 200whp mark, we want to see it, but we're not the lot to accept some sketchy, half-assed dyno slip posted at some hole-in-the-wall webpage. You want the respect here, you're going to need to post seriously accurate specifications and reliable documentation of your claims, especially when making claims of anything regarding the 420a. You're in the home of the 420a tuner. We know our shit and we can tell the difference between overzealous enthusiasm and the real deal. Just make an effort to accept other members' input and regardless of whether you agree or not, show others the level of respect you want to be shown, even if you don't feel you're being treated the same. The haters will back off and you'll find that the best of the best will remain true.

Now, all this bullshit aside, you are going to make the shootout in Norwalk next summer aren't you? If you are seriously pursuing the all-motor crown, there are a number of people who will be right there cheering you on.

Lata foo.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

Best single reply I have read in a long time.

"I don't see a 2.0L putting out 200+whp without a stand alone.
High compression, built up, ported/polished, preferably quad TB's and a stand alone, is my basic map to 200whp."

if you are really serous about 200whp these are your basic blueprints for 200whp - note the quad tb's, and stand alone...


"It takes 300whp turbo to beat a 200whp all motor"

you can't be serous saying that. you seem to be exageratting the numbers here...9 whp is really 7, 125whp is really 117. how are we supposed to take your estimated #'s serously if you can't even quote numbers from a site right? lets say your numbers are 80% of what you think they are, that seems to be how much % ur exageration is. so 80% of 200whp = 160whp. hehe, alright man im just teasin ya.

If you posted a dyno of 160whp, you would have respect from many ppl here.

03 rally red evo viii - stock
cardomain page
http://www.cardomain.com/id/steve0677

um and i though i posted stupid questions on the forum. Man some people are just plane stupid themselfs!!!!

Too all the NA's. Who needs a soomth running car we like the sweet over lap and high comp. NOT NO BLOWOFF VALVE lol

not to bash bro, but get that thing dynoed and I think you will be shocked with how little power you actually get from each mod...
dyno it, then we'll talk. You might get half of what you are expecting from your mods. Sorry, but its the truth. Look at my mods, I don't make near 250whp.. However, it is much nicer than stock, and does well at the track.

Built block.
Refinished head.
Tuned suspension.
TURBO.

Getting 100 hp per liter on pump gas NA is reasonable.

I would want to run a minum off 10.5 to 1 compression. Completely built engine with full ported head and intake. ON that I would run a catless exhaust and an aftermarket fuel/ignition system such as an Accel DFI.

Visit the Howell Automotive Open House August 20th, 2005. The largest gathering of Chrysler 2.0 engines on the planet.

US Small Business Administration Export Business of the Year for 2003

Visit Howell Automotive at www.howellautomotive.com

220hp is possable and i think dr1665 will prove it to the world.

myspace.com/coastiecobb

So do you want to explain how it takes 300 turbo hp to beat 200 NA hp? That's what I would like to know. And don't even say lag. You don't beat GSTs because of lag. It's a t25, the turbo will spool before the friggen car moves. I gaurantee almost every person with a turbo 420A on their car sees full boost before 4000 rpm, and if they know how to drive, they won't drop below that in a race, so how are you going to beat that with 200 hp NA?

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-Ian
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-1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS (SOLD!)
-2006 Nissan Frontier NISMO
-2003 CBR600RR
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WOW! I can feel the luv growing in her But really I do think this is a possable goal. The problem is there will need to be a lot of dyno-tuning. I wouldnt go UNDER 11:1 compression and you'll need one of the more agressive cam grinds. I would also grind out every casting line inside the block and paint the inside w/ brown rustolium primer. I would definatly use a crank scraper to control windage along w/ a lighter conecting rod. I would look into having custom stock size assesory pully machined out of billit alum and also use the afx udp. Stronger larger lighter valves will take stress off the crank and save hp. quad t.bodies are a must w/ larger injectors. MSD Dis-2 idnition will help run the car smoother and also advance ignition timeing for alittle more power. Along w/ the custom machining and porting your looking @ a crap load of money. So can it be done? Of course it can! Is it worth it? I guess if thats your goal then yes. But in my opinion once you have put the money into it and are all happy w/ the dyno #'s you will want more w/ the guy who spent a less than a G for mods for his ruststang spanks you. I feel to be happy go w/ a lower comp piston so your opsion for boost is always there.

Good luck man I hope you reach your goal:thumbsup

Joe

TeamLSR member @ landspeedracing.com

didnt read any of the posts .. so if anyone has sad this sry. But i would say .. cams, cam gears, pistons (& rings), rods, intake and exhaust manifold, exhaust, and you should be there. If you want to make more the next path is easy to see. Put a turbo on it. Then you will see 320+ whp.

Why thank you sir! We did not know that.
This is the type of thread you should be reading. LOL.

So after I do the fastest 2.0L NA, I think I might go for some superchizzarger action on her. Always the innovative - it's just the damn budget that gets me.

dr1665- I love your ideas...but I think i'm just gonna have to shoot for 231 whp NA by the shootout. Looks like we're heading towards the same goal with the same path to get there. Guess we'll just have to see who's got it done by the due date. Hope to see u there

---Harry. My car topped out at 140 this morning. I need "turvo." Two of 'em. And Harry, I need the glue to be dry by tonight.---








engine:Je Forged pistons .20
Eagle connecting rods
crankscraper
3-angle valve job
mild p/p
Crower stage 2 cams
Crowers valve springs
Aem cam gears
Pacesetter 4-2-1 headers
AEM V2 CAI
Unorthodox underdrive pulley
Final Drive gears from 99 Stratus
Transgo shift kit
Hayden 6 pass trans. cooler

well my car is running better then ever, we tuned the cams gears more and a felt a diffrence, it feels much better now, but still im breaking motor in, 440 miles on the new motor right now, one i hit 650 ill dyno it...i got the money now..i will hit just about 200whp

Lol, well since im GETTIN my eclipse next week... my mods:

Port/polish head (not to sure to what extent, but the car definetly pulls alot harder than my friends stock talon)
Thermal research cat-back
HKS intake (looks like shit so im gunna sell that when i get it, AEM cold air takin its place)

I was thinkin 150 or so HP... Planning on doin stage 2 cams and header, then im done with power till i get outa college, and im gunna take the easy way out with a turbo

Whatever genius said that it takes a 300hp turbo car to beat a 200hp NA car....thats the damn dumbest comment ive heard in a LOOOONG time. the absolute ONLY reason NA cars are fast(like the Honda all-motor drag cars) is because they are VERY light. 300hp turbo vs. 200hp NA in the EXACT same car... it wouldnt even be close, we are talking bus lengths. i hope the original poster reaches his goal, but i think you are a little over-estimating you "planned" power. you will not get anywhere in the neighborhood of 200WHP without quad TB's and a standalone...and tons of tuning. I guess being different is cool. but there is a reason noone has built a 200whp NA before. it cost 2-3X more, to be a lot slower than a stage 2 turbo kit that costs 3k. Goodluck.

1999 Black C5
1997 Silver RS
Wiseco 8.8:1 Pistons(back to low compression!)
Eagle Rods
T3/T4 Turbo
Custom FMIC
Greddy Exhaust
390's
Most current 1/8th mile time: 8.3@90mph 2.015 60'(Nitto Drag radials, i suck)

from what i gather head work and intake mani are the two big power inhibitors for us. i think with some creative intake mani work and an extreme head combined with high compression and #18's or equivalent cams you should be close. if that doesn't do it you should be close. nickel and dime mods should be able to push it over the edge. UDP, oversized TB, thermal wrap, lightened flywheel, ground wires, stiff motor mounts all the way around, maybe even going to 90mm(about 3.5 inches) exhaust might free up enough top end to crack 220. also with this level of all motor tuning the exhaust mani would also become a restriction and you could net small gains by replacing it.

quad TB's would definetly push the 2.0 over 220whp given the major mods listed above(before i mentioned nickel and dime mods).

http://www.ocaddict.com

thanks beefgg for the sig

hey brian, what kind of drivetrain loss are you figuring your 230 chp from? just curious, since I'm not exactly sure what the % is for our cars. has anyone done a COMPLETELY stock dyno run?

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-Ian
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-1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS (SOLD!)
-2006 Nissan Frontier NISMO
-2003 CBR600RR
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stock is supposed to be around 110. there were a few that went into the dyno with minimal mods.

http://www.ocaddict.com

thanks beefgg for the sig

110-115

I'll find a dyno and post it up.


Still a long-ass way for 200 whp , all motor

i would avoid hi comp pistons as much as possible, especially if its a daily driver. port/polish head, manifold, throt bod, hi flow cat, headers, some kinda fuel management.


but thats just me cause my car is a daily driver. :-P

nice guys dont always finish last...

10.5:1 isn't all that high.

Now 12.5:1 I probably wouldn't drop in a daily driver.



http://www.exileracing.com
una salus victus
Mods List: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/sig.htm

A 200 whp 420a will either not be streetable, or very very annoying to do so.





-Ryan



Jetta VR6

dynos -http://vr6dyno.cjb.net/
video clip - http://www.hostdub.com/albums/VTECeateR/VR6openroadcompress.avi

To get 220whp, 12.5 compression will be a necessity. Which will also make the car damn near un-streetable. i just always have been the type to get the most for my hard earned money...seems that a NA setup is just throwing away a lot of money to be slower than a stage II turbo equipped car. but, every one has their opinion, whatever floats your boat. Goodluck with it man.

1999 Black C5
1997 Silver RS
Wiseco 8.8:1 Pistons(back to low compression!)
Eagle Rods
T3/T4 Turbo
Custom FMIC
Greddy Exhaust
390's
Most current 1/8th mile time: 8.3@90mph 2.015 60'(Nitto Drag radials, i suck)

You know where this is going .. Once he gets 200 whp or whatever.. then hes gonna throw a turbo on it. and be making obscene amounts of horspower from the 420.

Originally posted by Michael_97RS
10.5:1 isn't all that high. Now 12.5:1 I probably wouldn't drop in a daily driver. http://www.exileracing.com una salus victus Mods List: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/sig.htm

*Skrilla
"Honest officer, I thought you were trying to race me"
Talon: 1st 2.4L
'97 Prelude
'04 350Z

Originally posted by etx
Good luck man! Project 'STFU Brian your talon is dead meat' should be on it's feet soon!

yea advanced timing would sure make a difference
i agree that 12.5:1 is needed for 230whp 10.5:1 will not do it..


a 200whp car would be streetable as long as it runs on pump gas...

You can have it cheap, fast or good. Pick any two.

If you want it cheap and fast, it's not going to be good.
If you want it cheap and good, it's not going to be fast.
If you want it good and fast, it's not going to be cheap.

Let's just say I grew out of loud exhausts, lumpy idles, and scraping the car on every bump.


They're nice for a while, but when you have to drive 20+ min to work or school everyday, it gets friggin annoying very quick. No doubt, a second race-only car of mine would have all of this, but there's no way in hell its my daily driver. Of course, it's all about what YOU want out of the car. If you want an idea of what I drive, see the video in the sig. I have the same mods as the guy who filmed it (just intake)... and that's pleasantly loud enough for me.


If you can put up with the excess noise, lumpyness, and whatever, by all means. Your car, your pocketbook.



Jetta VR6

dynos -http://vr6dyno.cjb.net/
video clip - http://www.hostdub.com/albums/VTECeateR/VR6openroadcompress.avi

you dont have to have a loud exhuast to be pwoerful and your car doesn't have to scrape everywhere to be powerful either!

lumpy idle so? as long as its consisitant why would it mater?


and to whom ever said 3.5" exhaust ona na 4 cylinder NO! just plain No!

28" 1 5/8" header has proven to be the best deisgn by the neon guys witha tri y design to a nice open/free flowing exhuast.... this is best usable power band and provides the most torque throughout the curve that ive seen ona 420a (in theory torque gets you down the road not Hp)

if someone is to reach 200whp they will do it with cams timing adjustment high comp and port work.

i dont see this happening with less then 10.5:1 16 cams, mild port and polish UDP intake exhuast and all the rest...

Bill

You can have it cheap, fast or good. Pick any two.

If you want it cheap and fast, it's not going to be good.
If you want it cheap and good, it's not going to be fast.
If you want it good and fast, it's not going to be cheap.

wow.. what a load..

people adding up HP numbers like it's granturismo.. hahah.. ricers LOL...

btw.. for the "nay sayers." PACWEST hit over 330hp with the stratus supertouring car.. same engine.. NA..

Your gonna need to rev the crap outta it #1..

so..

bottom end..

lightweight strutted pistons, with cutdown pin without full skirts.. less friction / less weight.

cutdown crank to reduce rotating mass

cutdown rod and main journals to reduce friction

toss the stock crank driving oil pump and use an electric one..

cutdown the fins on the stock waterpump.. less drag.. and better cooling.. go figure

Lightweight rods

12:1 or higher compression

head..

big cams to push the torque peak to about 7500rpm
lightweight retainers
lightweight valves
cut down the oil seals to reduce drag
cut down the bearing surface in the head to reduce drag
Valve job with blended seats and valve face cuts.. none of this 5 angle crap.. you want an infinite angle with enough face to seal the valve..

porting to enhance flow.. hogging out the ports dont count..

new intake manifold.. quad throttle body.. slider style from a skidoo/bike

long tube exhaust header

AFX ecu or aftermarket to allow you to rev to atleast 7500rpm

lightweight flywheel/clutch

that should do it..

oh..

a bigass bag of $$$

-- WheatKing

-- DSM Junkie --
4 - 1G talons
4 - Avenger/sebrings
1 - Jeep to tow em home when they break

I have been a member for a little while but dont post muchon hear, but Xtreme96gs and dr1665 you got a thired person in your race LOL. On asog or asec anyone who mentions all motor just gets bashed and everyone tells them to buy a turbo but Fuck that. I am goign all motor Hear is my plan and im not estimating any nubmer when im done i will have a dyno sheet and a video, maybe some1/4 times too.

AEM V2 intake
60mm TB
Inday Intake Manifold(if they never come out then port and polish)
Phonomic Spacer(if they come out too)
Crane 16 Cams
Upgreade valve train to rev to 8200
AF/X ECU
Crank Scracper
Airmass Headers
Test Pipe(already Have)
Bosal Cat Back
Qualife Limtied SLip
SPec Clutch/w Alumin Fly WHeel
MSD DIS2
ERT Ported Head
AEM Cam Gears
AF/X Under Drive Pully (already Have)
Maybe S-AFC
MSD Coil Pack(already Have)
Magnacore 10mm Wires (already Have)
NGK BKR5e-11 (already Have)
Grounding KIt (already Have)

Them im going to dyno and see where im at. If im still not at the goal then Time for 10.6 Compression and a 2.2L(if it doesnt interfer with my reving too8200rpm)

But thats my plan and im so sticking too it no mater what. I already bought the Headers and ignitoin threw my job and they should be hear soon. Sadfully my project will be on hold for 3 mounth while i am in boot camp. But after i get out its on like donkey kong(stole some one's line LOL)
But their you go

1997 Dodge Avenger I-4 5-Speed
DreamSpeed Cold Air Intake,AF/X Under Drive Pully, ES Motor Mount Inserts, MSD DIS2, MSD Coil Pack, MSD 8.5mm Wires,Aluminem Flywheel,Spec Stage1 Clutch,Crank Scraper, Quaife LSD,Airmass 4-1 Headers, Test Pipe, Bosal Catback,B&M Short SHifter(50%),Symbroski Shifter Kit, Grounding Kit, Solid Front Motor Mount

-- DSM Junkie --
4 - 1G talons
4 - Avenger/sebrings
1 - Jeep to tow em home when they break

Nice plans.

I do recommend the S-AFC or some form of fuel control beyond the AFX ECU. For the planned mod list I see you are definately going to want the additional fine tuning.

I'm researching good NA fuel set up options right now, I think I've found what I like, and will be using/recommending for us NA boys.



http://www.exileracing.com
una salus victus
Mods List: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/sig.htm

I really thing if you guys want to make 200+whp you guys should just forget about getting the AFX ECU, S-AFC, and other piggy backs and just get a stand alone (about $2k-$2.5k cost). Granted the cost is a fair bit more but you get COMPLETE TUNE ABILITY. The thing that will be holding everyone all motor numbers down will be the limitation of stock electronics (even with the AFX because if only modifies existing maps).

Start from scratch with the proper goal. Stand Alone, dyno time, decent number of mods in the category of GOOD QUALITY port work, ITBs, Cams ... 200whp NO PROBLEM.

-"Easy Mac"
05 Mazda RX-8 (RR8 #88)
99 Eclipse RS 398whp & 372lb-ft

*Skrilla
"Honest officer, I thought you were trying to race me"
Talon: 1st 2.4L
'97 Prelude
'04 350Z

Originally posted by etx
Good luck man! Project 'STFU Brian your talon is dead meat' should be on it's feet soon!

-"Easy Mac"
05 Mazda RX-8 (RR8 #88)
99 Eclipse RS 398whp & 372lb-ft