I have no problem believing the planes hit the towers. Fine. What bothers me is the plane hitting the Pentagon. There is just no evidence at all that supports a plane of that size hitting that building. The 5 images that were released of the plane hitting displays what happened over the course of 4 seconds, from 17:37:19 to 17:37:23. In the first two frames, both being taken at 17:37:19 (I would guess at the very instant it turned 19 and the very instant before it turned 20), we go from absolutely nothing in frame to an explosion. So in less than a second, the plane goes from completely off screen to completely off screen again, and in the middle there somewhere over a hundred people died and thousands of gallons of fuel exploded. The hole that was left in the wall before the facade collapsed is not nearly large enough for the kind of damage that should have been made.

Now I am not usually one for conspiracy, but nothing adds up with the Pentagon being hit. I just noticed what looks like a smoke trail which enters the frame from the right on the first frame and dissipates over the course of the next 4 frames after the explosion. I circled the smoke trail in the 5 frames. It looks exactly like some sort of missle was fired at the front of the building.

What looks like a smoke trail seems to enter frame the same second that the explosion occurs.


Smoke trail is now longer, reaching the explosion. Notice how it is slightly larger and more transparent, acting just as smoke would if it were following a rocket or missile.


Again, larger and more transparent. Again, the smoke is dispersing the way it normally would if following a small rocket or missle.


Once again...


The smoke now hangs in the air.



And then the whole thing again for comparison.



Tell me that doesn't look exactly like a missile or rocket being fired at the Pentagon.

it is inda odd, cause i work at an airport, and after the engines fire up, they dont smoke. at all. so thats kinda odd that theres a trail of smoke. then again the engines were most likey maxxed out. who knows.

Yes but if you see the smoke, you should see the plane. It is impossible, even on a camera with that slow of a shutter, to make a plane the size of a 757 completely disappear. Also, the smoke trail is so close to the ground that it could not possibly be from an airplane.

However, a rocket or missile could be small enough and fly low enough to create that kind of smoke trail without being seen in those 5 frames. Plus that little gate is in the way in the only frame that would actually show a missile/rocket.

Why does the date say Sept. 12th?

But I do believe something else went on there besides just a plane crashing.

___________________________________
97 Talon-SOLD
95 GS-T-SOLD
08 F-150

I don't know why it says Sept. 12th or why it is happening at 5pm. It is the 5 frames that were released by the government as the only live footage of the plane hitting the Pentagon. I take it at face value.

I totally belive you man. The American Government IS THE ANTICHRIST as far as I am concerned

I totally think that looks EXACTLY like a missile and I wouldn't put it past Fucktard Bush to do something like that.

meh.

I eat emo kids for breakfast

1995 Eagle Talon (SOLD)
72' SuperBeetle
72' Standard Beetle
56' Deluxe Beetle

http://www.question911.com/
http://www.planetdan.net/pics/misc/georgie.htm

Ok sooo why would a missile or rocket fire at the pentagon? And presumably it is ours cause if another country fired it, then it would be war (traditionaly style), and the terrorist would need some type of military aircraft to launch such a missile.

Were bodies of people in the plane that hit the pentagon recovered?

New Car:
2004 350z base, Nismo CAI, pioneer avic-n1 (dvd, cd, navi)



Old Car:
1998 GS with hrc stage 2, HID 6000k conversion kit, AEM UEGO wideband, sfmu, ml, prokits, Greddy warning gauges: egt, boost gauge, and oil pressure, apexi tt, haydans tranny cooler, costum dp, groundwires, dynotune fp gauge. gst muff, turbo spoiler
Boostin since Aug 03.

nothing like driving with the windows down and the music low: i love hearing the turbo spool, swwwhhhttt!!!!

No offense.. but why is this being brought up now? There has been no new information released in the last 5 years. (That I am aware of)
I don't care to much for a big "conspiracy" I don't care what caused those people to die.. I just feel for the people that lost their lives. That is one truth that will never be overshadowed.

-----------------------------------

My DSM registry.......Powered By Exile Racing
VW= The joy of driving
DSM= The frustration of fixing

The wonders of 2gnt chat:

I got this in an email the other day. There was more to it but this is the interesting part..

"This is something to think about! Since America is typically represented by an eagle. Saddam should have read up on his Muslim passages...

The following verse is from the Koran, (the Islamic Bible)

Koran (9:11) - For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; and there was peace.

(Note the verse number!)"

__________________________________________________________
-Tony <--- NOT asian.
'06 Wicked White EVO IX

The pentagon issue has been shown and argued for the past year, its nothing new that evidence of a plane is missing. You want real arguementitive data, look at the pictures afterwards. No plane remanents exist.

2 things i know are true. Periodically the govt must do things to strengthen the trust of the people to support the govt actions and existance. Afterall read the Declaration of independance and the constitution, the power of the govt only exists as long as people give the govt power. The second thing i know is rather morbid but its a fact. The surface can only hold X amount of people. The doctors and medical field have raised or life expectancy to nearly 100 now yet people continue to over procreate which is slowly creatign an over population problem. Aids, Cancel, and other deseases have helped to limit the surface population here in america. The largest way to limit the suface populatiopn is a "WAR" and the last large brutal war we had was Vietnam. Desert Storm was big but not nearly as large as Vietnam. This also creates the need for a military which is job security for so many people and poitacal leaders.

Food for though as you pay your taxes this year

Terry

So if a missle tagged the building then where is the plane?

_______

BPU'd skittle

yea, do they have any evidence of people's bodies or anything?...and i mean if the people WERENT on the plane that hit the pentagon, where did they go?...and u have a good point about the population, i wouldnt be surprised if the gov. started hiring people to randomly kill off older people or something. we should start having laws about how many children you could have IMO, b/c this world is gonna be maxed out pretty soon

1. you dont need a plane to send a missle somewhere. Ground to air missle.

2. bodies? who said they were on the plane and not in the building when it was hit?

IF the govt and media told you something is it nec true? Do you believe everything you read?

_______

BPU'd skittle

I eat emo kids for breakfast

1995 Eagle Talon (SOLD)
72' SuperBeetle
72' Standard Beetle
56' Deluxe Beetle

There were never any bodies recovered. They apparently burned up completely in the fire. Hell, there was never even any of the plane recovered. It apparently also burned up completely.

___________________________________________

------------------------------------------------
98 ESi
95 GS

Why is this thread even still going? This post alone refuted the entire "conspiracy" argument with a few pictures. It seems like this post was just ignored for the sake of keeping the thread alive with retarded theories.

Originally posted by EvuLFleA "What some experts have called "the most comprehensive forensic investigation in U.S. history" ended Nov. 16 with the identification of 184 of the 189 who died in the terrorist attack on the Pentagon." http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/stripe/6_48/national_news/12279-1.html Didn't they recover the black box from the plane? Must be missle parts. Other missle parts. The missle probably caught on the fence and generator before impact too. Oh yeah, for whoever said the hole was too small. Well, you know the body of the plane is only about 13 feet tall or so. The hole in the pentagon was about....13 feet.

____________________________
HAD: '98 Eclipse RS

HAVE: '04 Grand Prix GTP Comp G

_______________________________________


95 Talon ESi-T

__________________________________________________________
-Tony <--- NOT asian.
'06 Wicked White EVO IX

not like im gonna wade through all this dribble...but i ask a question...

how many more times are we gonna have this EXACT same discussion about the EXACT same issue with the EXACT same results on this forum?

-----------------------------------------
2011 Nissan Xterra Pro-4x

2007 Kawasaki Ninja 650R

1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-NX 75 shot, AEM CAI, P&P t/b and intake mani-SOLD

1964 Buick Electra 225-all original, all power options, 325hp, 445ft/lbs tq

Look, all I am saying is that the only footage of the pentagon being hit by a 757 is 5 frames that were released by the government which don't even show the plane.

A 757 coming in at that angle, flying that low, and going that fast would have been seen from miles away. You would think there would be more than 5 still frames of the entire incident at the Pentagon. Christ they must have 20 cameras on every window there. It is one of the most sacred government buildings in the country.

When I was working in Silver Spring, MD last year, 2 F-18 fighter jets intercepted a confused pilot in a Cessna plane that was flying too close to Washington DC. They threatened to shoot it down while it was still a good 10 miles away from the capital, yet an entire 757 can fly in and strike the Pentagon with no warning, no interception, and not even any footage or pictures of the actual plane. It just doesn't make any sense.

Here is a video that was put together that motivated me to make this post.

http://tinyurl.com/7jgu3

Most of it is total rubbish, but they do make some valid points. Especially about the Pentagon.

ya, that loose change video makes some interesting points.

mainly the hole in the pentagon. dont look like a 757 hit that.

There is an interesting DVD that I saw at a friend's house. It's called "911 in Plane site". It's cool because it's not the typical "X-files" conspiracy style flick. It's just basically factual stuff like scale issues with the size of the plane and the size of the hole in the pentagon and other things that don't add up. It really makes you wonder. It's about the towers and the pentagon. You should check it out if you're interested. It made me ask some questions.

heres the link: http://www.911inplanesite.com/

later

'99gs with some "T": -HRC 20g-FMIC-Portfueler-500cc secondaries-stock primaries-Walbro 255lph fuel pump-p&p intake manifold, p&p head-5 angle valve job-Crane #14 cams-Fidanza adjustable cam gears-PT Cruiser lash adjusters and followers-Crane valve springs-ARP head studs-Built bottom end-JE 8.6 forged pistons-Eagle H-beam rods-Clevite bearings-Total Seal piston rings-Melling oil pump-solid front engine mount (XtremeRS-Matt)-prothane side and rear inserts-Fluidyne radiator-F-A-L slim fans-Thermal R&D 3" cat-back exhaust-HRC eliminator 3" dp-3" hi-flow cat-Greddy type RS bov-Greddy profec B spec-2 electronic boost controller-MSD DIS-2 programmable ignition-Optima red top (in trunk)-Zeitronix Zt-2 wideband A/F meter/datalogger-Greddy gauges: 60mm p/h: boost,egt,a/f- 52mm: oil pressure, fuel pressure-Nology Hot wires-Denso plugs-Missing Link-Eibach pro-kit springs-KYB AGX adjustable shocks-18" Falken Torque 5 (gunmetal)-Falken Ziex 512 225-40-18-empty wallet : (

to do list: brakes, paint, interior


http://www.cardomain.com/ride/570859

NOTE: "Vne" is Velocity (never exceed). It refers to the maximum speed at which a plane can be safely flown without the risk of it falling apart.

what the hell? Is everyone on here smoking something? Terrorists hijacked a plane and crashed it into the pentagon, period. Can we say eyewitnesses? Can we say a missing plane, and missing passengers, with families????

I do have to say though, that quote from Koran 9/11 in intriguing

*sigh*. This clearly isn't the place for this type of thread.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/05/16/060516170846.xsxvy62c.html

Should be interesting.

------------------------------------------------
98 ESi
95 GS

what about the PEOPLE WHO SAW A PLANE HIT THE PENTAGON.

conspiracy theory, bahh....bunch of horseshit

there was heavy traffic that morning and MANY people saw a plane. several 100 eyewtiness accounts say a plane, flying fast as fuck below 50 feet ("the plane was no higher than the tops of telephone poles as it lurched toward the Pentagon.-william middleton sr.") hit the pentagon.

I've never read of ONE single eyewitness account of any rocket or missile (lol) being sighted. you'd think if traffic was heavy, and a few 100 if not 1000 people saw a PLANE...and this theory held ANY water...that SOMEONE would have seen something else.

but no, all you have is peice of shit camera phone pics and smoke theories. lol. i'll go with facts.

"Tell me that doesn't look exactly like a missile or rocket being fired at the Pentagon."

do you have any experience whatsoever with rockets or missiles? were you in the military? are you a weapons or demolitions specialist? have you ever even seen a rocket or missile destroy a building with your own eyes? if not, you cannot make an educated assumption that a rocket hit the pentagon based on these peice of shit pictures. all this does is demonstrates you can question anything, especially on the internet.

simply said: The evidence inside the building is consistent with the evidence of plane wreckage outside, as well as eyewtiness accounts outside -- indicating that a commercial airliner flew into the Pentagon on September 11th.

let it die.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX


"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

wtf? my post got moved back like 3 posts

Interesting... How big was the path of debris on the groud before the building? The first thing I thought when I saw the pictures at the top was "Looks like he hit the ground before he hit the pentagon"... I dunno I guess I find it hard to belive that people are actually claiming such things as this attack being fake... One thing comes to mind when I think of the people that make these documentaries... Manbearpig, and I'm super serial

-Chris
1999 Eclipse T-GS


2.4 Project is Officially underway

Nah, there really shouldn't be any arguing until they release the videos from the Missoui (howeever you spell it) trial.

I'd actually like to see definitive footage. As of now, I still can't believe the plane did that little damage even though I do believe a plan hit it. If it's more sketchy footage I'll be convinced it was not a plane.

------------------------------------------------
98 ESi
95 GS

ugh..

_______

BPU'd skittle

but but but but....what about the aliens at area 51 & the weather balloon?

~Luke
Facebook
1969 Cougar - 11.91 - 380HP
2007 GSXR 750
1999 OZ - SOLD - 15.26 NA - 14.71 on 75 shot

The **NEW** video released today was the same pictures that was posted in the original post... odd.

-Chris
1999 Eclipse T-GS


2.4 Project is Officially underway

ZOMG I just saw this NEW NEW released picture of the crash and it totally proves the government is lying and that is wasn't a 757 that crashed at all!!! I knew JJ was secretly working with Bush. I'll go make my tinfoil hat while you guys check this picture out.

-Chris
1999 Eclipse T-GS


2.4 Project is Officially underway

All I have to say jeff is that i totally agree with what you are saying. For those that are post thing in HIS thread trying to shut it down, and complaining, THIS IS THE PITS, he has every right to post what ever his free mind can think of, and you have every right to post ANOTHER thread named "DONT BRING BACK 9/11 POSTS". Dont come in here undermining his thread.

Mr. Driggs you argue valid points, but i am curiuos and want to ask you: You defend points, and they make absolute logical sense, but do you still disagree with what Jeff is saying here? a TRUTH is a COMPLETE TRUTH, what is, thus, going to explain ALL the incongruencies? I have not studied this subject in depth, but seems to me that most evidence goes against Jeff's idea, that just in some way reinforces the points he is making. (kind of circular resoning, I dont want to explain in depth)

Point being made (I think), Jeff i congrue with you 100%, but its not much we can do now.

I edited to the wiki!

I just watched that whole loose change video... damn that was long. I'll admit he made a couple of point, but most of it was either opinional, or baseless. My favorite part was, talking about the flight 93 crash in that field, "Jane Doe(don't remember the real name) claims that she heard a loud explosion, more like an atom bomb then a plane crash" LOL Cause I'm sure she has heard both in her life and can tell the difference. I just found that funny. The video had some interesting points but I still don't believe it.

EDIT: I also like the part where he is like "If al-quida terrorists attacked us, then why did we attack Iraq and not Afghanistan?" Was he missing from the earth for like 6 months?

-Chris
1999 Eclipse T-GS


2.4 Project is Officially underway

Maybe the government, aware of its debt, saw the towers go down and decided to launch a missile at the pentagon for the insurance money?

-Chris
1999 Eclipse T-GS


2.4 Project is Officially underway

Sarcasm is a tool of the weak. lol jk. I'm not saying they fired a missle into it. My main point, that I think many people can agree with, is the government did not tell us the 100% truth about what really happened. That of course leads to the question Why? What else is false? Can we trust anything they tell us (not really...)

~Luke
Facebook
1969 Cougar - 11.91 - 380HP
2007 GSXR 750
1999 OZ - SOLD - 15.26 NA - 14.71 on 75 shot

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html

/thread

<-- stands corrected on pentagon issue. Now find one for the towers and I'll never complain about the government again....after bush is out of office.

edit: ugh, nevermind, watching a video of the plane hitting the WTC makes me sick to my stomach, theres no point in arguing over it anymore, either the truth will come out one day, or it won't.... I'm not in the government so theres no point in worrying about it.

the vid: ...humanity is a fucked up thing.. http://www.cnn.com/video/us/2001/09/12/2nd.plane.hits.cnn.med.ram

Nobody mentioned about the 15 al queda named in the plane attack that killed EVERYONE, but 9 of them are still alive. Oh, also how does a plane know down twin towers, by hitting it, and when a plane like it crashes into the empire state building, the building is still standing. Now, dont tell me you actually believe a plane knocked down the towers. How did twin tower number 5 which was smaller just fall down for no reason, no debris could of caused it because it was way after everything fell. If you watched the loose change, how can anyone explain the 2 flights that went into the 2 towers were not even scheduled to leave so with passengers. Then they found the 2 planes that were crashed, still on runways but with different flight numbers; why destroy them like they did. It is just somw weird shit, i didnt trust the government before this anyway. The gov works for themselves, they dont give a fuck about USA, they use there intelligence to make us believe them and look stupid. By the way, this is my opinion, comments are welcome, but dont bash me or anyone for stating their opinion.

99 RS-T
"New bottom end(8.6:1 w/long rods)"
Turbonetics 60-1/Portfueler/etc!!!!!

99 RS-T
"New bottom end(8.6:1 w/long rods)"
Turbonetics 60-1/Portfueler/etc!!!!!

Originally posted by fauchpj

Originally posted by freddy_00_69

Originally posted by fauchpj

Originally posted by freddy_00_69 Nobody mentioned about the 15 al queda named in the plane attack that killed EVERYONE, but 9 of them are still alive. Oh, also how does a plane know down twin towers, by hitting it, and when a plane like it crashes into the empire state building, the building is still standing. Now, dont tell me you actually believe a plane knocked down the towers. How did twin tower number 5 which was smaller just fall down for no reason, no debris could of caused it because it was way after everything fell. If you watched the loose change, how can anyone explain the 2 flights that went into the 2 towers were not even scheduled to leave so with passengers. Then they found the 2 planes that were crashed, still on runways but with different flight numbers; why destroy them like they did. It is just somw weird shit, i didnt trust the government before this anyway. The gov works for themselves, they dont give a fuck about USA, they use there intelligence to make us believe them and look stupid. By the way, this is my opinion, comments are welcome, but dont bash me or anyone for stating their opinion.

i really couldnt make out your post into 1 complete statement that made any sense....so read this: http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

Your doing the same thing i did, except you believe what the gov researchers came up with. Its amazing how you can beleive that, but the theories(loose change) also have facts supported by scientific research. My bad for just writing shit and not making my opinion clear. I just agree with the loose change video, maybe one day i will change my mind .

what points in the video do you agree with?

99 RS-T
"New bottom end(8.6:1 w/long rods)"
Turbonetics 60-1/Portfueler/etc!!!!!

That Popular Mechanics article is a good read.

-Chris
1999 Eclipse T-GS


2.4 Project is Officially underway

Yeah I especially like the last issue they addressed... the F16 pilot. The one where the "fact" is proved only by the comments of a single NY state official, in direct contradiction to the comments of a Federal military official. The one where the pilot refused to comment. Where's the FOI release of the F16's flight plan, radar tracking, etc?

In fact, a large portion of the "Facts" in that article were "proved" by eyewitnesses. And in situations where concrete physical evidence (photos, video, radar, flight recorders) should have been available... but are conveniently absent. This evidence is well documented to have been confiscated by the Federal government immediately after 9/11.

All I'm saying is there's a ton of technical data, logs, footage, and physical evidence that the government has posession of, but has for one reason or another chosen not to release to the public. We're left with what amounts to folklore as "facts".

Originally posted by EclipseSix
<-- stands corrected on pentagon issue. Now find one for the towers and I'll never complain about the government again....after bush is out of office. edit: ugh, nevermind, watching a video of the plane hitting the WTC makes me sick to my stomach, theres no point in arguing over it anymore, either the truth will come out one day, or it won't.... I'm not in the government so theres no point in worrying about it. the vid: ...humanity is a fucked up thing.. http://www.cnn.com/video/us/2001/09/12/2nd.plane.hits.cnn.med.ram

I edited to the wiki!

I think there are some real loons out there. Some of them check out 2gnt.

1st of all its pointless to argue without facts. Once someone showed a page full of legitimate facts that showed why the conspiracys were plausible, and why they weren't, I dropped it. So obviously I will listen, and have, so fuck off.

The Goverment works for themselves not for us.
It feels the need to protect us from others and...ourselves.
Sacrifice the few for the greater good of the many as they say.
They'll feed out certain truths in small doses to the media so we can be satisified and go about our normal lives.
If they told the whole truth, there'd be mass paranoia and revolts anyway.
Therefore you will never know 100% truth, because that truth in their opinion is on a 'need to know basis, and we dont need to know'.
You do know there are uncovered documents from the 60's about a plan to frame Cuba to make it look like they were going to attack us; in other words fuel to start a Cuban war? Obviously it never panned out, but the orders were there clear on paper.
So it just goes to show you our goverment isnt always run by honest boy scouts...

~Luke
Facebook
1969 Cougar - 11.91 - 380HP
2007 GSXR 750
1999 OZ - SOLD - 15.26 NA - 14.71 on 75 shot