check it out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEON-2-0-DOHC-TURBO-CUSTOM-kit-like-no-other-420A-R-T_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQitemZ7992898889QQrdZ1

It's on a neon, but that setup looks like it'd work.

Discuss

~Luke
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1969 Cougar - 11.91 - 380HP
2007 GSXR 750
1999 OZ - SOLD - 15.26 NA - 14.71 on 75 shot

everything except for that chinese turbo that will come unglued.

-Roman

It runs like a "bad out of hell". Maybe I'll place a bid...

John 96 GS

Why are the "4" indiviual throttle bodies mounted on the exhaust side?

Isnt that the timing belt on the left hand side? Probably couldnt make that big log of a thing fit. or do neons just flow that way...

Also how is he opening each supposed throttle body? it looks like just some kinda tubular manifold in actuality.

Idunno, im too scared to ask the guy, maybe ill just buy it and put a 4g63-t engine in my 2gnt and it'll prolly work with no fabrication.

*98 eclipse rs
*2005 srt4 (screw the warranty let the modifications begin)

1998 dodge avenger 4 cyl AT
Mods are:
Not enough

no way that would fit on our intake side... and why does it seem that ALL of the super custom, one of a kind, projcts that "work awesome" and "run great" always wind up on ebay with something else being broken....causing the driver to "regretably" have to sell said awesome custom item...?

USED TO HAVE...Everything you wish you had, and then some...

You are somebody special Tim, you matter! - from the admins (but nobody likes you, because your username is just like that other guy's, and you whine a lot)

That is definitely freakin ghetto. Place is about an hour away though, maybe I can check it out.

1998 Eclipse GS

GS-T Axleback|CAI|OBX 4-1 Header|AF/X UDP|

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Built. That's All...
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2 Fingers of Scotch with a milk back... Stat!

oops

USED TO HAVE...Everything you wish you had, and then some...

You are somebody special Tim, you matter! - from the admins (but nobody likes you, because your username is just like that other guy's, and you whine a lot)

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heh that definately wouldn't fit on our cars. Maybe with some modification but bleh...

I wonder why neon peepz don't go for superchargers. Its on the side our turbo is on O_o'

http://www.hadesomega.info -car specz and movies 95 Eclipse RS | 76' 280Z | 89' MR2 | 99 Neon | 91 Zephyr
Who sez FF can't drift?

USED TO HAVE...Everything you wish you had, and then some...

You are somebody special Tim, you matter! - from the admins (but nobody likes you, because your username is just like that other guy's, and you whine a lot)

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USED TO HAVE...Everything you wish you had, and then some...

You are somebody special Tim, you matter! - from the admins (but nobody likes you, because your username is just like that other guy's, and you whine a lot)

I don't know, but I love the 4 throttle bodies on my R6. Hook that shit up to a car with slide stops in the throttle body and I guarantee you won't have traction through all 5 gears....in a turbo car of course.

intricatelines.com/ -graphics and vinyls

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For their tomorrow,
We gave our today."
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Theres lots of good info already on 2gnt on this subject hence what sparked my interest awhile ago.........

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=set_threaded_mode&forum=32&page=&topic_id=888&prev_page=show_mesg

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Wouldn't a setup like the model in the last post result in starvation on the cylinders after the first? Maybe not starvation but I would think a deffinate decrease in flow across the other 3? Maybe not in a forced induction setup but I don't see it working well N/A. But I am willing to bet by the people I see in this thread none are looking for a N/A setup like this anyway.

heh...that pic looks familar.

since I've posted that pic I put very little work into that setup...the 2.4 swap has been consumming all of my time, money and energy.

But but air starvation theroy was adressed by redesigning the upper plenum and increasing the size by about 150% and included "velocity" stacks. Even though I think the previous version was adaquate. I found a generanl rule of thumb was x percent of the engine displacement was adaquate for the upper plenum. Which the first design met. I don't remember what that percented % is and I have that page bookmarked at work. I'll post it up tommorrow. I don't think the bigger plenum will hurt...it'll just take up more space. There are several ppl around the board that have this as a back burner project but nobody has taken it very seriously lately. There was a setup that was about 90% complete sold in the forsale section but I don't know whatever happened with it.

I don't know if I'll ever run mine. But I still plan on getting it completed...someday, maybe this winter I'll tincker with it again. I don't know how much further I'm going to take my car. The 2.4 is killing me and I'll need to take a break from major projects and spending. Maybe someone with a MSnS running will buy it and see what it really can doo....Brian...Aaron...any takers?

edit

heres a mock up of the new upper





I'll probably do somthing with the end so it "funnels" more into the last runner.

getty up

-kent-




'98 Talon...gone, but not forgotten

Well i think if someone is serious about this, make a mockup out of styrofoam, for the runners and the upper plenium. Make a mold using this mock up and lay in fiberglass or some other material that is very heat resistant.
I think a short runner design would be best suited, incorporating the tb's into the short runner with basically a velocity stack attatched to each tb that feeds into the larger plenium. Not sure, but i think unless your forced induction 4x 30mm tb's maybe quite overkill and actually lose air velocity. I look at the design of the magnus intake manifold where the upper plenium is actually "slanted" shall i say, to increase air velocity in the last runner, and the velocity stacks are on the end of the runner inside of the plenium. I wish i didn't suck at drawing, cause the idea is soo clear in my head.

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Here's that reference I mentioned in that last post.


Plenum Volume

There is no simple answer to the needed plenum volume for a given application or rpm range. The good thing about plenum volume is that there is a pretty wide range that it can be and still be effective, so general rules work well. Again the major concerns are with supplying enough air, but with not so great a volume that the throttle response suffers.

For a tuned plenum and intake pipe the following guidelines, from Grape Ape Racing can be used. For engines operating in the 5000-6000 rpm rage. For a four cylinder 50-60% works well. If a boost is desired in a higher rpm range, closer 7000-7500 rpm, the plenum will need to be 10-15% smaller. The plenum size of a Helmholtz resonator may go against the typical plenum size rules, but the rules change when the resonator is being used. The whole Idea of a plenum is to allow the gases to slow down and gain density. The Helmholtz plenum makes a dense charge by used of pressure waves, in the same way tuned port intake runners work. This plenum sizing method only applies to engines that use tuned intake pipe. Using the tuned plenum and intake pipe would suggest a plenum volume of approximately 300cc.

The alternative specifications are for a system with no tuned intake pipe. This is probably more appropriate to the restricted air flow problem. Here a general rule of thumb is to provide an intake plenum with one to two times the engine displacement in order to provide a large amount of available. The volume of air contained in the plenum acts as a low pass filter (capacitor) between the engine and the restrictor, smoothing the flow through the restrictor. Otherwise, without a plenum, the engine would choke the air through the restrictor with each intake stroke of a piston. Using this method would suggest a plenum of 1.2 litres.



http://www.eng.ed.ac.uk/~jchick/Y5/thesis/FormulaStudent/public_html/pt7.htm

getty up

-kent-




'98 Talon...gone, but not forgotten

Considering that the plenuim will more than likely be assembled(welded) in two pieces, I think the addition of a few small diverter fins maybe an inch high starting from the front (Intake port) and working up the plenium wall till the back is reached would allow all 4 tb's to recieve an equal amount of airflow, kind of giving the chamber a vortex.

Then again if a little prep was done prior and if there really was an issue, you could always add 1 mm to each consecutive tb in the series. Giving them a heavier volume of "pull" to outflow or compensate for the one prior.
tb1 tb2 tb3 tb4
30mm 31mm 32mm 33mm
Rather than just adjusting the linkage making sure that when wot was reached all tb's were really at wot rather than already being open further to accomodate airflow starvation.

I think the only real key issue which has been addressed is making sure that when at "wot" the plenuim will flow enough volume.

And just a very rough paper tape example: our current plenium has a mass volume of 104.blah blah and we know we can run a 70mm tb just opening up the inlet and still get optimum flow, so if we wanted to flow 120mm worth of tb's figure we would need to add another 74.blah blah to the chamber giving the final plenium 178.blah of volume. Making the chamber roughly 12.in in circumfrence a radius of 2.2in and a length of 11.6in.
And for real thats just a very half ass'd measurment but it gives you the idea on how much bigger in therory based on using 30.?mm tb's the plenium should be.

Now me personally, that giant obx intake would supply more than enough volume for 4 small tb's though I'm not sure of its chamber volume but its huge. So even a square setup like that on top would surfice and we all know it fits.

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I am not sure that you would really be able to think of the area upwind of the throttle bodies as a plenum, though. A big part of what makes a plenum a plenum is the fact that it is a big volume that shares pressure with the runners. In other words, with the throttles closed, the area behind the throttle will be heavily in vacuum, and the area in front of the throttle will be just about atmospheric.

The formula does not apply to this. I think that a bigger plenum would be more apt to fill each cylinder equally, though, at least on a turbocharged application (duh, what else is there?).

getty up

-kent-




'98 Talon...gone, but not forgotten

Originally posted by micyek

Originally posted by Ducking_Fumbass ...at least on a turbocharged application (duh, what else is there?).

quoted for truth but really...if this was for a N/A aplication there would be no need for a plenum. Like Driggs said up there ^^^ just get four small cone filters...done.

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I have a set of TB's at my house and the more I read this, the more I want to do it. There are a few ways of getting around such things as a MAP & TPS. My busa has a TPS & a MAP on it. Inside the busa's airbox are velocity stacks that extend roughly 2" into the box. Now, if we could make a similar airbox with the air filter made into it, like the bike, and use a WRX-style hood, you could have a true cold-air/ram-air intake that goes directly into the airbox and through the TB's.

Busa TB setup

~Luke
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1969 Cougar - 11.91 - 380HP
2007 GSXR 750
1999 OZ - SOLD - 15.26 NA - 14.71 on 75 shot

Ihave r1 and suzuki throttlebodies I am using for my project. It will deffinatly be over the winter thoguh. Have to get it going normal first.

best time so far 14.3 @ 101.1mph(no traction)
www.cnnmotorsports.com