Welcome to the 2GNT Forum!
Home Site Background Info & Specs Mods & Tech Info CAPS Part Reviews Donate 2GNT Stickers
Search Printer-friendly copy 0 Users in Chat
Top 2GNT Technical Performance/Engine topic #81357
View in linear mode

Subject: "cam install, pains in my ass, wont start" Previous topic | Next topic
willmayoOct-06-04 04:22 AM
Donating 2GNT member
680 posts,
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#81357, "cam install, pains in my ass, wont start"
Oct-06-04 04:31 AM by willmayo

          

Ok well im in the midst of installing crane #14's, crane cam gears, already have ss valves and crane springs installed, along with pt lashers/lifters. got some problems though.

1.) i got a 3/8" drive 6" socket extension JAMMED in the crank bolt hole (i used it instead of something smarter while pulling the old pulley off) stupid, yes. anyway i'm doing it in the parking lot at school just because. stupid, yes again. i ended up going and buying a hacksaw and cutting off the tapered part so i could slip off the pulley. so i still have like 3-4" of extension sticking out. im going to have my parents bring me the sawzall and a drill this weekend, cut it down and then drill it out. let me tell u, those goddamn craftsman tools are strong as shit, took a torch to it to no avail, hacksaw took me 3 hours to get 2/3 of the way through, then i hammered it. anyway, anyone have any suggestions on how to get it out other than drilling it out and re-tapping the hole? anyone think i could just leave it in there and the unorthodox udp will stay on? im thinking thats a bad idea, but then again, that stock pulley was a bitch and a half to get off, so maybe it will hold?

2.) the damn thing wont start up. the timing is DAMN close, it may not be perfect but if it isnt its only a tooth or so off. the motor cranks over, it doesnt quite sound the same as it used to though. i have spark, i have fuel, but it doesnt fire up. i dont get it. i thought i may have had the cam magnet backwards but it only goes on one way. im stumped. i'm going to go double check the timing in a little bit.

3.) the timing belt doesnt sit on the new cam gears right. it hangs over like 1/4" on the motor side. now i know that isn't good for the timing belt. anyone know what the problem is with that?

4.) this has nothing to do with the above problems, but i think my hub might be fucked up. little less than a month ago i replaced 3 wheel studs on the passenger front. after that i think the hub may be bent. i got the whole front end up in the air, put it in gear and let the wheels spin in 3rd gear. the whole wheel wobbles (i know the tire is balanced, rim not bent) as well as the rotor rubbing against the caliper. is it possible that while beating the old studs out i bent the hub all up? i dont wanna go replacing the hub until im sure thats the problem.


any help is really appreciated, been workin on this damn thing for 2 weeks now, finally have it half way together and im at a stand-still until i can figure some shit out. i miss driving my little econo-turd.



edit: yes i searched

--------------------
99 GS-Turbo 3.55 MTX
S16G @ ~15psi - FMIC - Forged Internals
Clinton Township, MI

Status: Parting Out...

  

Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Replies to this topic
RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start, Scandelous, Oct-06-04 04:40 AM, #1
RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start, TeamMichael_97RS, Oct-06-04 05:09 AM, #2
RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start, willmayo, Oct-06-04 07:17 AM, #3
      RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start, grain, Oct-06-04 09:45 AM, #4
           RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start, willmayo, Oct-06-04 01:56 PM, #5
                RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start, 2point4, Oct-06-04 03:25 PM, #6
                RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start, Eclipse2NR, Oct-06-04 03:43 PM, #7
                RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start, TeamMichael_97RS, Oct-06-04 05:23 PM, #8
                     RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start, totaleklipse97, Oct-06-04 07:30 PM, #9
                     RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start, willmayo, Oct-07-04 07:41 AM, #10
                          RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start, TeamMichael_97RS, Oct-07-04 07:51 AM, #11
                               RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start, willmayo, Oct-07-04 08:07 AM, #12
                                    RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start, willmayo, Oct-07-04 04:30 PM, #13
                                    RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start, TeamMichael_97RS, Oct-08-04 08:16 AM, #14
                                         RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start, willmayo, Oct-08-04 08:20 AM, #15
                                    RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start, davo345, Oct-11-04 12:23 PM, #16
                                         idea about vac leaks?...., willmayo, Oct-12-04 08:06 AM, #17

ScandelousOct-06-04 04:40 AM
Member since Jul 19th 2004
445 posts,
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#81359, "RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start"
In response to Reply # 0


          

It sounds like you bent the hub when you beat out the wheel studs.

When you bought the Crame Cams cam gears did they send you ones for the Eclipse 420a or the Neon 420a? If they sent you Neon cam gears the timing may be way off depending how they are indexed from the 2gnt ones.

  

Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

TeamMichael_97RSOct-06-04 05:09 AM
Donating 2GNT member
5866 posts,
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#81360, "RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Alright lets go by the numbers.

Originally posted by willmayo
1.) i got a 3/8" drive 6" socket extension JAMMED in the crank bolt hole (i used it instead of something smarter while pulling the old pulley off) stupid, yes. anyway i'm doing it in the parking lot at school just because. stupid, yes again. i ended up going and buying a hacksaw and cutting off the tapered part so i could slip off the pulley. so i still have like 3-4" of extension sticking out. im going to have my parents bring me the sawzall and a drill this weekend, cut it down and then drill it out. let me tell u, those goddamn craftsman tools are strong as shit, took a torch to it to no avail, hacksaw took me 3 hours to get 2/3 of the way through, then i hammered it. anyway, anyone have any suggestions on how to get it out other than drilling it out and re-tapping the hole? anyone think i could just leave it in there and the unorthodox udp will stay on? im thinking thats a bad idea, but then again, that stock pulley was a bitch and a half to get off, so maybe it will hold?


I would get the extension out. Some have drive around for a little while because they messed up theirs too. Hopefully you didn’t mess of the threads inside the crank. Next time go buy a longer bolt to use the puller on.


Originally posted by willmayo
2.) the damn thing wont start up. the timing is DAMN close, it may not be perfect but if it isnt its only a tooth or so off. the motor cranks over, it doesnt quite sound the same as it used to though. i have spark, i have fuel, but it doesnt fire up. i dont get it. i thought i may have had the cam magnet backwards but it only goes on one way. im stumped. i'm going to go double check the timing in a little bit.


Timing has to be DEAD ON. You’re going to have to pull the Unorthodox back off and reset timing.

The timing marks on the Crane gears are also off, because they are not intended for the 2.0L.

Your best bet now is to put on your stock gears with stock timing, and retime the motor, dead on.


Originally posted by willmayo
3.) the timing belt doesnt sit on the new cam gears right. it hangs over like 1/4" on the motor side. now i know that isn't good for the timing belt. anyone know what the problem is with that?


When Crane produced the cam gears they screwed up. They basically made 2.4L cam gears and called them 2.0L gears.

You DO NOT want you timing belt riding half off the gear, it’s going to get chewed up and break, then you’ll be in a world of hurt. Both your engine and your wallet.


Originally posted by willmayo
4.) this has nothing to do with the above problems, but i think my hub might be fucked up. little less than a month ago i replaced 3 wheel studs on the passenger front. after that i think the hub may be bent. i got the whole front end up in the air, put it in gear and let the wheels spin in 3rd gear. the whole wheel wobbles (i know the tire is balanced, rim not bent) as well as the rotor rubbing against the caliper. is it possible that while beating the old studs out i bent the hub all up? i dont wanna go replacing the hub until im sure thats the problem.


Sounds like you could have messed up the hub.



Originally posted by Scandelous
It sounds like you bent the hub when you beat out the wheel studs. When you bought the Crame Cams cam gears did they send you ones for the Eclipse 420a or the Neon 420a? If they sent you Neon cam gears the timing may be way off depending how they are indexed from the 2gnt ones.


The Neon and Eclipse 420A cam gears are the same. Same timing marks and everything. Crane’s are just wrong.






Exile Racing Technologies: http://www.exileracing.com
Assasin of Joy

  

Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
willmayoOct-06-04 07:17 AM
Donating 2GNT member
680 posts,
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#81371, "RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start"
In response to Reply # 2


          

Originally posted by Michael_97RS
Timing has to be DEAD ON. You’re going to have to pull the Unorthodox back off and reset timing. The timing marks on the Crane gears are also off, because they are not intended for the 2.0L. Your best bet now is to put on your stock gears with stock timing, and retime the motor, dead on.



ok so what about the crane gears? cant use them?

--------------------
99 GS-Turbo 3.55 MTX
S16G @ ~15psi - FMIC - Forged Internals
Clinton Township, MI

Status: Parting Out...

  

Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
grainOct-06-04 09:45 AM
Donating 2GNT member
2551 posts,
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#81379, "RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start"
In response to Reply # 3


          

hahahaha. i hope you have your stock cam gears. cause those are for the 2.4. wont even work for you. better send those back and get some aem's or something, i had the same problem.

  

Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
willmayoOct-06-04 01:56 PM
Donating 2GNT member
680 posts,
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#81386, "RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start"
In response to Reply # 4


          

Originally posted by grain
hahahaha. i hope you have your stock cam gears. cause those are for the 2.4. wont even work for you. better send those back and get some aem's or something, i had the same problem.


i still have them, its running now. but idles REALLY high. every time u rev it up, it holds its rpm for a bit then slowly approaches idle but still never goes under 1200 rpm. any suggestions?

anyone have any suggestions on how to get out the socket extension? it wiggles around a little bit but thats about it. i wanna put my accessories back on but cant cuz im not puttin the crank pulley on with that damn thing in there.

--------------------
99 GS-Turbo 3.55 MTX
S16G @ ~15psi - FMIC - Forged Internals
Clinton Township, MI

Status: Parting Out...

  

Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
2point4Oct-06-04 03:25 PM
Member since Jun 16th 2004
406 posts,
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#81388, "RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start"
In response to Reply # 5


          

I did the same thing once, (extension in crankshaft) i used two pipe wrenches to get it out. put a large one on the crankshaft right where the udp sits, and put a smaller one on the extension. hold the crank wrench steady and turn the one on the extension as if to be unscrewing it and it should work itself outta there. you may want to heat the end of the crankshaft a bit also with a small butane torch or equivalent but make sure you don't get near the oil pump seal. i pointed the torch straight up from the bottom, right onto the crankshaft. its safer that way. i can almost guarantee you killed the threads inside the crank though. you'll have to tap them. the tap size is "1.75 metric" hope that helps you out. laterzzz...chris

  

Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Eclipse2NROct-06-04 03:43 PM
Member since Nov 25th 2002
581 posts,
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#81390, "RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start"
In response to Reply # 6


          

The socket extention actually worked well for me, except I think I used a 1/4" extension, not a 3/8". If the belt's hanging off the cam gears, I wouldnt run the engine at all. Last thing you want is some bent valves from a broken timing belt. Sounds like the 2.4 style gears to me.


1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / Aerogear Body / Coated in Magnetic Red Metallic rev.2 / T3 Turbo Intercooled @ 8 psi / http://www.team2nr.com
Mark Galyan - Indianapolis, Indiana

  

Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
TeamMichael_97RSOct-06-04 05:23 PM
Donating 2GNT member
5866 posts,
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#81391, "RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start"
In response to Reply # 5


          

Originally posted by willmayo
Originally posted by grain hahahaha. i hope you have your stock cam gears. cause those are for the 2.4. wont even work for you. better send those back and get some aem's or something, i had the same problem.
i still have them, its running now. but idles REALLY high. every time u rev it up, it holds its rpm for a bit then slowly approaches idle but still never goes under 1200 rpm. any suggestions? anyone have any suggestions on how to get out the socket extension? it wiggles around a little bit but thats about it. i wanna put my accessories back on but cant cuz im not puttin the crank pulley on with that damn thing in there.


It idles that high because your timing is way off.

Good luck getting the pulley back on with the extension stuck in there, you need the stock crank bolt to pull the pulley back on the crank.



Exile Racing Technologies: http://www.exileracing.com
Assasin of Joy

  

Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
totaleklipse97Oct-06-04 07:30 PM
Member since May 15th 2003
3589 posts,
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#81392, "RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start"
In response to Reply # 8




          

looks like crane fucked another person over!! thanks to crane it took another week to get the right part. and crane said it was my fault until i straight up told them to shove it up their ass. If you need a set of stockers let me know. i have a set. buy unorthodox or fidanza they are damn good.

my car will sound like, bumbabumbubavrooooooooooooooomrooooooooahhhhhhhhhhhhh, kishhhhhh
www.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=643
VW= The joy of driving
DSM= The frustration of fixing

  

Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
willmayoOct-07-04 07:41 AM
Donating 2GNT member
680 posts,
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#81406, "RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start"
In response to Reply # 8


          

Originally posted by Michael_97RS
Originally posted by willmayo
Originally posted by grain hahahaha. i hope you have your stock cam gears. cause those are for the 2.4. wont even work for you. better send those back and get some aem's or something, i had the same problem.
i still have them, its running now. but idles REALLY high. every time u rev it up, it holds its rpm for a bit then slowly approaches idle but still never goes under 1200 rpm. any suggestions? anyone have any suggestions on how to get out the socket extension? it wiggles around a little bit but thats about it. i wanna put my accessories back on but cant cuz im not puttin the crank pulley on with that damn thing in there.
It idles that high because your timing is way off. Good luck getting the pulley back on with the extension stuck in there, you need the stock crank bolt to pull the pulley back on the crank. Exile Racing Technologies: http://www.exileracing.com Assasin of Joy



are you sure the timing is off? i did it by the book, all the marks line up and everything. i was thinking the idle problem was because of a vacuum leak. i broke one of the cheap hard plastic vacuum lines running from the egr to the intake plenum.

--------------------
99 GS-Turbo 3.55 MTX
S16G @ ~15psi - FMIC - Forged Internals
Clinton Township, MI

Status: Parting Out...

  

Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
TeamMichael_97RSOct-07-04 07:51 AM
Donating 2GNT member
5866 posts,
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#81407, "RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start"
In response to Reply # 10


          

The timing marks on the Crane gears are incorrect. So even if you are lined up on those, your timing is off.

The broken vacuum line does not help, and is causing it's own problems. You'll need to fix both.



Exile Racing Technologies: http://www.exileracing.com
Assasin of Joy

  

Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
willmayoOct-07-04 08:07 AM
Donating 2GNT member
680 posts,
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#81410, "RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start"
In response to Reply # 11


          

Originally posted by Michael_97RS
The timing marks on the Crane gears are incorrect. So even if you are lined up on those, your timing is off. The broken vacuum line does not help, and is causing it's own problems. You'll need to fix both. Exile Racing Technologies: http://www.exileracing.com Assasin of Joy


sorry i may not have mentioned, but i swapped the stockers back on and aligned those perfectly. i need to concentrate on getting the damn extension out because it makes turning the crank a PITA.

--------------------
99 GS-Turbo 3.55 MTX
S16G @ ~15psi - FMIC - Forged Internals
Clinton Township, MI

Status: Parting Out...

  

Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
willmayoOct-07-04 04:30 PM
Donating 2GNT member
680 posts,
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#81443, "RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start"
In response to Reply # 12


          

bizump, anyone have any idea whats goin on with my idle? checked all the vaccum lines and they're good. car idled fine before i ripped her apart so i doubt if its the AIC. think it could be the intake manifold not tight enough or something? i gotta get this thing runnin good soon. i wanna go home saturday night (im at school). its wierd i can cover up the throttle body with my hand and it keeps idling just as high. i dont get it!

--------------------
99 GS-Turbo 3.55 MTX
S16G @ ~15psi - FMIC - Forged Internals
Clinton Township, MI

Status: Parting Out...

  

Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
TeamMichael_97RSOct-08-04 08:16 AM
Donating 2GNT member
5866 posts,
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#81469, "RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start"
In response to Reply # 13


          

Check for vacuum leaks at all the gaskets.

If you don't have the crank pulley back on the engine could be trying to use a higher idle to spin the alternator faster to get a better charge in the system.

Get it all back together if you haven't and start diagnosing from there.



Exile Racing Technologies: http://www.exileracing.com
Assasin of Joy

  

Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                        
willmayoOct-08-04 08:20 AM
Donating 2GNT member
680 posts,
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#81470, "RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start"
In response to Reply # 14


          

Originally posted by Michael_97RS
Check for vacuum leaks at all the gaskets. If you don't have the crank pulley back on the engine could be trying to use a higher idle to spin the alternator faster to get a better charge in the system. Get it all back together if you haven't and start diagnosing from there. Exile Racing Technologies: http://www.exileracing.com Assasin of Joy


i'll do that, thats an interesting idea. i never really thought of it but it makes sense, i'll let you know what happens. im just gonna have to concentrate on getting that damn extension out now.

--------------------
99 GS-Turbo 3.55 MTX
S16G @ ~15psi - FMIC - Forged Internals
Clinton Township, MI

Status: Parting Out...

  

Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
davo345Oct-11-04 12:23 PM
Member since Jul 15th 2003
510 posts,
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#81596, "RE: cam install, pains in my ass, wont start"
In response to Reply # 12


          

Originally posted by willmayo
Originally posted by Michael_97RS The timing marks on the Crane gears are incorrect. So even if you are lined up on those, your timing is off. The broken vacuum line does not help, and is causing it's own problems. You'll need to fix both. Exile Racing Technologies: http://www.exileracing.com Assasin of Joy
sorry i may not have mentioned, but i swapped the stockers back on and aligned those perfectly. i need to concentrate on getting the damn extension out because it makes turning the crank a PITA.


I did the same thing a while back...and learned my lesson. What I did to get it out was used a manual spring compressor to somehow hook the extension and then expand the compressor. It worked well. It was basically the same way a jaw puller worked.

bobin' and weavin' in traffic. No other place i'd rather be emoji.



^^^^^EVERYTHING HAS TO GO.

  

Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
willmayoOct-12-04 08:06 AM
Donating 2GNT member
680 posts,
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list
#81629, "idea about vac leaks?...."
In response to Reply # 16


          

In the HG set, there was only one new gasket for the egr. so i replaced the one that goes on the egr valve, not on the intake. i just reused the intake one which was in, eh, not so good condition, prolly my leak huh? i ordered an set of egr blockoff plates, that damn pipe is gonna melt all my wiring that is strewn all over the place now. sound like a plausible cause of my whack idle?

--------------------
99 GS-Turbo 3.55 MTX
S16G @ ~15psi - FMIC - Forged Internals
Clinton Township, MI

Status: Parting Out...

  

Report This Post to Admin Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Top 2GNT Technical Performance/Engine topic #81357 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 2.2
Copyright 1997-2005 DCScripts.com, Copyright 2005-2026 2gnt.com
Generated in 0.075 seconds, executing 48 queries.