Hey everyone,

Wiseco pistons are totally phat! Check out this picture, it really shows the quality of the piston



Notice how the lower right hand corner of the piston has a big chunk taken out of the valve relief? That's QUALITY if I've ever seen it. Not only that, but look at that picture again. The guy who owns this claims it's a forged piston, but I just find that hard to believe. Doesn't it look cast to you? The finish on it is awful. Take a look at this picture here



notice again, that big chunk is still missing from the piston. I guess someone dropped their silly putty piston on the floor and decided to use it anyway. Also notice right on the lip of that piston that there's another chunk taken out of the piston? eek.

Then, look at the coated piston on the right. It's got ping-inducers all over the surface because the "ceramic" coating on the top is all rough and bubbly. It actually looks like the coating was sanded on, doesn't it? You can see a better picture of the uneven coating here



right next to the light from the flash, you can see the ping-inducers I talked about earlier. Man, too bad I don't have any pictures to show of the hyperpolychromeoly coatings on the sides of the pistons

Speaking of hyperpolychromeoly, the guy who made those pistons over at wiseco has never seen a 420a head in his entire life. The quench pads on that this are atrocious! Do they have *no* clue or what? I mean, the quench pads on a piston should look somewhat like the head that they're mated to. Otherwise, it defeats the purpose of even having quench pads. Check out this head:



The pads on the piston shouldn't have a shoulder all around them like those wiseco's I showed you guys earlier. They should look cloverleafed on the intake side of the piston, and flat across the other side. Either that, or that shouldn't have even attempted quench pads at all.

And lets talk about alloys, shall we? Wiseco pistons are made out of the cheapest crap on the planet. I wouldn't put a Wiseco in my LAWN MOWER let alone a performance oriented engine. I think they stock Wiseco pistons over at Pep Boys. Maybe I'm wrong. Anywho, the aluminum that pistons are made of expands MORE if it's a higher quality piston. And Wiseco's have the least piston to wall clearance I've seen at like .003". So, for those of you who don't know what that is, it's like .0005" more piston to wall clearance than you'd account for using CAST pistons. That's how high quality Wiseco pistons are.

Silly Wiseco!

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

riiiiiiiiiiight. Thats why many highpowered cars are using Wiseco pistons without problems. Go check out Magnus motorsports. They Wiseco without any problems.

"Shop smart, shop S-Mart!" ~ Ash
Member # 1523

>riiiiiiiiiiight. Thats why many highpowered cars
>are using Wiseco pistons without problems. Go check out Magnus
>motorsports. They Wiseco without any problems.

Hey do some research before posting. Magnus uses Ross Pistons.

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

>riiiiiiiiiiight. Thats why many highpowered cars
>are using Wiseco pistons without problems. Go check out
>Magnus motorsports. They Wiseco without any problems.

You know what? I should add more to this.

Have you ever met Marco? Have you ever shaken that man's hand? Have you talked to Marco in person? Has he borrowed your tools? Have you ever even purchased anything from Marco? Did you even know that Marco owns Magnus?

Marco would be insulted by you accusing him of using Wiseco pistons. Even if Marco had a slip of bad judgement and called up Wiseco, he knows his so much about engines that he'd at least order it with the correct top on the piston. Not only that, but he'd make that piston so custom it wouldn't even be classified as a Wiseco anymore. If Marco were here he'd pimp slap so so quickly you'd be cryin'

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

my bad, maybe I am thinking of one of the people from Magnus, (MC55) who uses Wiseco pistons. but then maybe im wrong. I may be getting them confused with another place. Either way thats my fault. But, I do know there are people using Wiseco pistons and have pretty good amounts of power without any problems. either way, my bad on the magnus part.


also, id say that the reason you dont see any of the machine lines or marks is because the pistons are ceramic coated, so any of the lines or markings are covered up.

alos, how is that little chip going to affect anything? just curious

"Shop smart, shop S-Mart!" ~ Ash
Member # 1523

>But, I do know there are people using Wiseco pistons
>and have pretty good amounts of power without any problems.

what's a good amount of power to you? 250? 300?

>also, id say that the reason you dont see any of the machine
>lines or marks is because the pistons are ceramic coated

In the second picture I put up the piston on the left is not coated, the piston on the right is coated.

>alos, how is that little chip going to affect anything? just
>curious

If you buy a new set of pistons and they came like that you should send them back. Nicks, sharp edges and anything else that will cause a hotspot will also cause detonation. Not only that, but aluminum shouldn't do that. Aluminum is a soft metal, but any piston that's not made out of crappy pot metal won't nick like that unless you really screwed something up.

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

>what's a good amount of power to you? 250? 300?
more like 400+ whp, or 450+ crank hp. 250-300 is nice, but not what I would consider a lot.

>In the second picture I put up the piston on the left is not
>coated, the piston on the right is coated.

again, my bad, i thought about that after i posted this.


the part about the nick i dont know because I dont know much about that partof the engine, like combustion chamber stuff. I work with jet engines, so the combustors I'm used to are totally different. anyway


PS. nice sig, real mature

"Shop smart, shop S-Mart!" ~ Ash
Member # 1523

What the hell happened to those things, I just got somw wisecos and they look nothing liek that, mine were perfect, no chunks missing like that, that sucks.

hehe
those pistons do not look very "high quality"
the thing that confuses me about the surface finish of that piston is that there are no machine lines on it. usually, forged parts are forged to near final shape then finish machined to tolerance. This is the most effective way to produce a high precision part. JE does it this way. they have a base forging that is machined to finish. That is why their pistons have machine tool marks on them. I believe JE uses 2618 alloy which has an extremely high tensile strength when compared to other alloys.

lates
james

Rest In Peace Heidi Doggy

Glad to see my pictures are getting good use besides my own...
Awesome!

Deutsche automotives für das Leben!
http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=3784

heh. THEY ARE FREAKIN CERAMIC COATED. i assume cuz that is what someone else said. aren't those bill's pistons tho? where did i see these....

Having Problems? Heres my Three step solution to anything 2gnt related.
Step 1: Put down everything in your hands.
Step 2: Grab a lucky strike, Smoke it.
Step 3: Walk to the fridge, double fist some keystone ice, sit down in the shade, drink one beer, finish cigarette, drink other beer, roll a joint, smoke it, walk back to your problem, and in about 5 minutes the solution will come to you.
If not. Go here: here

If still nothing, your trying to hard. Start over at step 1.

>heh. THEY ARE FREAKIN CERAMIC COATED.

Take a look again buckey. the one on the left isn't, the one on the right is.

>i assume cuz that is what someone else said.

you know what happens when you assume...

>aren't those bill's pistons tho? where did i see these....

Bill who?

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

>Bill who?

the guy you make fun of by your name, and in your sig.

why should anyone on here listen to you? i say this because one, your new here. simple. 2, you make fun of and are immature towards other board members.

not trying to be an a$$ just trying to figure out why

"Shop smart, shop S-Mart!" ~ Ash
Member # 1523

>why should anyone on here listen to you?

I didn't say they had to listen to me. Maybe they could read what I was saying, and come to a conclusion based on THIOUGHT instead of blindly following someone else?

Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not the one who tells people how things work incorrectly. coming on this forum preaching information that isn't accurate is highway robbery. The saddest part about it is that people like you get defensive because you don't want to actually know that everything some random guy you met on the Internet is WRONG.

> i say this because one, your new here.

So? That doesn't mean I don't know my a$$ from a hole in the ground. That doesn't mean the people who have been here forever DO know their a$$ from a hole in the ground.

>2, you make fun of and are immature towards other board
>members.

I only make fun of people who are wrong. They deserve it.

"not trying to be an a$$" I'm just telling you how it is.

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

for some reason i found your last post funny. not really sure why though, maybe the last line or something. oh well, anyway. I was just wondering.

"Shop smart, shop S-Mart!" ~ Ash
Member # 1523

Nobody benefits from a troll.

ban his ass already

__________________________________________
~Chris
03 SRT-4

>Nobody benefits from a troll.

This topic provides valuable information. It shows people how bad some manufacturers are. It also shows how bad those pistons are.

What have you posted that's valuable lately?

>ban his ass already

What have YOU posted that's valuable lately?

This information is relevant to people considering buying pistons. Who'd buy hunks of crap? I'm just posting what I think of those pistons. Instead of bashing me about it, why don't you get into a discussion about the topic?

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

mototool your posts are retarded. you aren't helping anyone becasue NO one gives you enough credit to listen to what the fuck you are saying.

you might think you are helping people, but if someone wanted information on good pistons they would talk to someone who knew what the fuck they were talking about

not some childish girl who no one likes or respects.

dinown his ass back to the stone age
_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

Uberingram> I bow down to the Geo

>mototool your posts are retarded.

thanks. I value your input and will be taking that into account on my next post.

>you aren't helping anyone becasue NO one gives you enough credit to
>listen to what the fuck you are saying.

that's not my fault.

>you might think you are helping people, but if someone wanted
>information on good pistons they would talk to someone who
>knew what the fuck they were talking about

Point out one place where I don't know what I'm talking about. Sorry, but all the info in this thread that's been posted by me is correct and accurate. If I posted anything that's false, why don't you point it out?

>not some childish girl who no one likes or respects.

I curtsy to you, kind gentleman. You're right, "nobody" likes or respects me.

Jump on the crappy forged piston bandwagon. I thought this topic was SUPPOSED to be about how bad Wiseco pistons are? It's since fallen way off target. That's too bad, there's some valueable information in this post.

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

indeed, sorry about jackin the thread

carry on gentlemen.

my opinion = get CP's
_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

Uberingram> I bow down to the Geo

>my opinion = get CP's

That's what I'm talking about. Get a set of CP's, or JE's, or Ross. Don't buy crappy pistons.

Crappy pistons straight up suck. Pistons that look like the ones in this thread are horrible, and defeat the purpose of putting "special purpose" pistons in your engine.

If you curtsy like I do, maybe you'll just want to run 4 pounds of boost and stay on the stock internals. But, there's nothing worse than spending money on pistons and ending up with a heaping steamy pile like that.

I mean, who sells that stuff anyway? They should be kicked.

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

So what about what I post. At least I use my own SN.

I'll gladly call idiocy on myself in honesty, bitch.

__________________________________________
~Chris
03 SRT-4

>>Nobody benefits from a troll.
>
>This topic provides valuable information. It shows people how
>bad some manufacturers are. It also shows how bad those
>pistons are.
>
>What have you posted that's valuable lately?


Do a search. Or better yet head to the 1g/4g section and look at pretty much any post. I'm sure you'll find a "valuable" post or two there.

my god, this thread is getting long.

I still don't get what happened to those pistons, did you get them like that or did they break in your motor

the pistons in both pics are ceramic coated ud know that if u were intellegent as u portray
the left one is ceramic un polished the right is polished...

there is an old skool trick to polishing the piston tops to reflect more heat in the combustion chamber...

the piston did not come with the gouge in it...

so if u knew what u were talking about ud know that JE and Weisco are the same Company And produce nearly Identical pistons, must mean JE are crap...

but JE uses a stronger alloy then CP must mean they are crap...

Ross is behind in machine work technology.... Arias is the only original piston maufactuer with their patented tapper skirt design ona forged piston...


Bill

You can have it cheap, fast or good. Pick any two.

If you want it cheap and fast, it's not going to be good.
If you want it cheap and good, it's not going to be fast.
If you want it good and fast, it's not going to be cheap.

>the pistons in both pics are ceramic coated ud know that if u
>were intellegent as u portray

Sorry, I have a rough time differentiating between crap and POLISHED crap.

>there is an old skool trick to polishing the piston tops to
>reflect more heat in the combustion chamber...

Uh, what? yeah just like the 150% less friction old skool trick at 750rpm, right? I think the mother's polish fumes got to you.

Imagine what the high gloss shine will do at 7500rpm?

>the piston did not come with the gouge in it...

Did you drop it?

>so if u knew what u were talking about ud know that JE and
>Weisco are the same Company And produce nearly Identical
>pistons, must mean JE are crap...

Right - and that means because FORD owns Jaguar that Jag's are pieces of shit, right? It also means because the government controls both the police and FBI that the FBI is no "better" than the cops?

>but JE uses a stronger alloy then CP must mean they are
>crap...

where'd you get that? You're off in your own little world there. JE and CP use the same alloy.

You're so off in your thinking anyway. Where'd you get that "better" materials expand less? Aluminum alloys of higher quality expand MORE when heated. It happens. Deal with it and account for it. The Wiseco's call for .003" expansion, which is *nothing* as far as a forged piston goes.

>Ross is behind in machine work technology....

They are? Have you been out to their shop, or did you hear that seventeenth hand? Just curious.

> Arias is the only original piston maufactuer with their patented
> tapper skirt design on a forged piston...

uh, all skirts taper. it's part of their design. As for Arian pistons, if you're all up on their jock why don't you use those in your block?

I'd bet any piston manufacturer worth their weight in forgings each owns at least one patent. to say ONE manufacturer has ONE patent on ONE thing of a piston is totally stupid. It's not even worth mentioning. I'd hope that ALL piston manufacturers would have AT LEAST one patent. If they don't they're not innovative enough to do anything but copy someone elses work.

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

Troll or no, i think MotoFool is fighting a losing battle here. That's some serious shit, Tool... especially considering you're right.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

This is cool...

1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS 10th Anniversary OZ Edition
Check Out My Site For Pix
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/EclipseRaceR/MyEclipse/VIS%20CF%20Hood/

NOT COOL! wtf? why are we arguing? nice. thats great. we got someone who can't differentiate between polished ceramic coated pistons, and unpolished unceramic coated pistons. wtf??????? and as far as him going "bin ladin" on weisco for finding pictures of weisco pistons that weren't even like that when weisco sent them. d00d. here it is in black and white...those are colors for your information. i just want to clear up some things for you.

1. STFU!
2. Now that is said and i have you duck taped to some rail road tracks, the pistons pictures you dug up from somewhere to create a totally meaningless post were NOT like that when deleivered. so if there are any problems with them, its not weisco's fault. you can't even see the pistons, they are coated! stfu!
3. You need to stfu!
4. Don't move, the train will be by soon. Have a nice squish!


EDIT: how many posts did it take for you to piss me off? ONE! how pathetic is that. you are the first person on here that has really irritated me. do people hate you in real life? do you have a gilfriend? oh wait. nevermind no offense. and don't come on here posting pictures of your Jessica simpson girlfriend pictures!!!!!! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bye beech.

Having Problems? Heres my Three step solution to anything 2gnt related.
Step 1: Put down everything in your hands.
Step 2: Grab a lucky strike, Smoke it.
Step 3: Walk to the fridge, double fist some keystone ice, sit down in the shade, drink one beer, finish cigarette, drink other beer, roll a joint, smoke it, walk back to your problem, and in about 5 minutes the solution will come to you.
If not. Go here: here

If still nothing, your trying to hard. Start over at step 1.

wow......

yeah.... i feel much better.

Having Problems? Heres my Three step solution to anything 2gnt related.
Step 1: Put down everything in your hands.
Step 2: Grab a lucky strike, Smoke it.
Step 3: Walk to the fridge, double fist some keystone ice, sit down in the shade, drink one beer, finish cigarette, drink other beer, roll a joint, smoke it, walk back to your problem, and in about 5 minutes the solution will come to you.
If not. Go here: here

If still nothing, your trying to hard. Start over at step 1.

nm.

__________________________________________
~Chris
03 SRT-4

all you need is love

stop fighting children and mototool...please stfu before people get so pissed they pop hemmorhoids and beat you over the head with them

_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

Uberingram> I bow down to the Geo

When it comes time to go to class, you need to listen to the teacher, not the student... I'm with Dino on this one

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

anyways, I would say that the amount a piston expands is directly proportional to the silicon content, as opposed to using the word "quality" because unfortunately that can be pretty subjective when u are talking to motorheads. the trade off with changing the silicon content is higher durability (more resistance to detonation) vs more expansion of the metal as it heats up (so you'll need more piston - wall clearance, thus more piston slap). It's up to you whichever you prefer.

2gnt: '99 RS-T, killed by a toyota, pending rebuild...
Daily: Volt
Daily #2: '99 EVG ebike- STOLEN by PEDRO

For the record I did not have these pistons machined for me. I bought these from bob stockum, the only other guy that is building custom parts for the 2.4's(back last fall)

Also I never said that wesico were the best pistons out there they were cost effective for the time that i bought them last year, and the only thing available without waiting 4-8weeks for custom pistons that cost over 200$ more..

Find me a piston with rings for the same price of 425$ that is better then the weiscos...

I sell JE's asa dealer my cost on custom pistons would have been mimimum 125$ more...

CP was not very wide spread last fall... I thought about having Ross or Arias build them but for the price it was not worth it due to the fact this is only my starter motor to last until the next one is built to be faster..

If you dont like the weiscos so much DONT BUY them, stay with your Ross pistons, even though Ross doesn't have a shelfed piston for the 2.4...

I still find it funny that you can only say piston coatings are crap you never prove your theorys...

No piston coatings wont produce more power, but with a friction modifying coating you reduce the drag in the motor signifigantly..
If you dont beleive me then prove me wrong with scientific evidence that shows 110% that a moly coated motor will not last longer and free up lost power in friction..

Bill

You can have it cheap, fast or good. Pick any two.

If you want it cheap and fast, it's not going to be good.
If you want it cheap and good, it's not going to be fast.
If you want it good and fast, it's not going to be cheap.

Mototool do u wnat me to post pics of the Forged(ooops by your terms they are cast pistons) Je's(2.0 not 2.4 pistons also) i had coated they dont have any miss haps in the coating would that make you satisfied?

Bill

You can have it cheap, fast or good. Pick any two.

If you want it cheap and fast, it's not going to be good.
If you want it cheap and good, it's not going to be fast.
If you want it good and fast, it's not going to be cheap.

EZ

>anyways, I would say that the amount a piston expands is directly
>proportional to the silicon content, as opposed to using the
>word "quality" because unfortunately that can be pretty
>subjective when u are talking to motorheads.

You're right. I wasn't getting too specific about it because chances are my stuff would either be deleted, or ignored. The higher the Silicon content of the piston the more it will expand. Also, the higher the silicon content, the better heat resistance, and more durability. And, the less they suck in general.

>For the record I did not have these pistons machined for me. I
>bought these from bob stockum, the only other guy that is building
>custom parts for the 2.4's(back last fall)

You didn't even use parts you sell in an engine that you're putting together Uh, yeah, I'd buy parts from you.

>Also I never said that wesico were the best pistons out there they
>were cost effective for the time that i bought them last year, and
>the only thing available without waiting 4-8weeks for custom pistons
>that cost over 200$ more..

You bought them last year, but STILL aren't using them, so why would waiting 4 to 8 weeks matter?

>Find me a piston with rings for the same price of 425$ that is
>better then the weiscos...

You, being a dealer, should get JE's at cost, shouldn't you? I wouldn't waste my time looking for you, anyway. You'd probably end up carrying them, and then you'd just be freeloading and you'd end up making some cash off me, like you do these forums anyway.

>CP was not very wide spread last fall...

CP has been around for years. They were formed back in '98 right after Wiseco bought JE. A few guys from JE left that company because they didn't like new management, and went and started CP. Anyway, 1998 was *5* years ago. You just didn't know about them.

>I thought about having Ross or Arias build them but for the price it
>was not worth it due to the fact this is only my starter motor to
>last until the next one is built to be faster..

And since you don't actually know enough about pistons to be INNOVATIVE and have them make a custom piston for your customers, you decided just to be cheap and buy Wiseco's from the other guy who already built and sold parts for them. Way to innovate

>If you dont like the weiscos so much DONT BUY them, stay with your
>Ross pistons, even though Ross doesn't have a shelfed piston for the
> 2.4...

If I want a steamy pile I'll go produce one in the bathroom. I wouldn't use a set of Wiseco pistons as ashtrays if I could. If someone gave them to me, I'd sneak over to your house and install them in your computer. Oh, nevermind, you've already got a set.
As for Ross - I don't have Ross, I don't want Ross. I stated earlier that Marco at Magnus uses ROSS, NOT WISECO. Since you're hard of reading, you probably missed that, too.

>I still find it funny that you can only say piston coatings are crap
>you never prove your theorys...

You never even read other people's posts, do you? Yesterday I said "coatings that you spray on will flake off" and I still stand by that. Coatings applied to pistons from a spray gun aren't BONDED to the aluminum in any way. You need to actually DO something to get the coating to stick to them. this should clear it up: cheap ass "coatings" don't do anything for you but flake off.

>No piston coatings wont produce more power, but with a friction
>modifying coating you reduce the drag in the motor signifigantly..

They won't? The way you carry on about 900% less friction at only 750 rpm! "Imagine what that'll do at 7500 rpm?" ... probably nothing. You just said it yourself.

How thick is your moly coating? You spray it on with your $650 HPLV gun, so it's not going to be all that even, or all that thin. Do you account for your coating with your machine work?

>If you dont beleive me then prove me wrong with scientific evidence that shows 110% that a moly
>coated motor will not last longer and free up lost power in friction..

You're a dumbass. "No piston coatings wont produce more power" and then the next paragraph you say "prove me wrong with scientific evidence ... that a moly coated motor will not last longer and free up lost power in friction.." You should really choose one idea and stick with it. Which one is it?

>do u wnat me to post pics of the Forged(ooops by your terms they are
> cast pistons) Je's(2.0 not 2.4 pistons also)

No eye wood liek u to youse pr0p3r gr4mm0r avory 1nce en a wile. Sp34l1ing th1ngz g0od werkz 2! I said your Wiseco's LOOK cast. They're owned by the same parent company but that's a far cry from "basically the same" - Are your siblings just like you because you have the same parents? God have mercy on your parents if that's the case.

>i had coated they dont have any miss haps in the coating would that
>make you satisfied?

No. It wouldn't. A shop's car is pretty indicative of the shop's quality. If you cut corners on your own vehicle, why wouldn't you on customer cars? Anyway, these wiseco's suck, that's the topic of discussion.

There's only one way you could satisfy me... Alright, maybe two.

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

>>If you dont beleive me then prove me wrong with scientific
>evidence that shows 110% that a moly
>>coated motor will not last longer and free up lost power in
>friction..
>
>You're a dumbass. "No piston coatings wont produce more power"
>and then the next paragraph you say "prove me wrong with
>scientific evidence ... that a moly coated motor will not last
>longer and free up lost power in friction.." You should really
>choose one idea and stick with it. Which one is it?

Engine coatings won't *produce* power directly, but some assist in reducing friction which *usually* and *hopefully* will increase power output.

That's Bill's point... and that's a true statement. And you accuse HIM of being reading impaired.

Hey motoTOOL... what's in your engine? I'm curious to see your work since you came onto our forums talking big talk. You may not respect Bill's work, and you don't have too, but stop hiding behind a mockup of his username and reveil yourself and your work dude. Sheesh!

>That's Bill's point... and that's a true statement. And you
>accuse HIM of being reading impaired.

Yeah but it's all half-assed. Bill wants to reduce friction here, and "free up" horsepower there, but only using coatings. He didn't go through and reengineer the entire block to make use of every available friction reducing thing he could have done. Just coated them, raved about it, and called it good.

Imagine what'd it do at 7500rpm if he did EVERYTHING he could do, instead of just coating his skirts with Moly?!

>Hey motoTOOL... what's in your engine?

Well, you see. I don't actually have one yet. I've been saving up my allowance so that I can buy a briggs and straton for my junior dragster. I've got $10 right now, so it'll be another 4 and a half years until I can actually get me engine. When it's done I'll be the fastest .4 liter, it'll be fun! I'm making my own turbo kit for it too! it'll have a log manifold that's been mig welded even!

>I'm curious to see your work since you came onto our forums talking
>big talk.

I used JB weld to weld all the seams on my intake manifold - and I also made it so that it has a "Magnus" look to it. I also threaded all the barb fittings right into the 1/8" aluminum. It works great, until I hit boost!

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

>Troll or no, i think MotoFool is fighting a losing battle
>here. That's some serious shit, Tool... especially
>considering you're right.

Right or not... he's still a troll.

In all seriousness though, he needs banned IMO... 2GNT needs to live up to it's name.

9D9 Set a bad example....tisk...tisk...

1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS 10th Anniversary OZ Edition
Check Out My Site For Pix
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/EclipseRaceR/MyEclipse/VIS%20CF%20Hood/

>You're a dumbass. "No piston coatings wont produce more power" and >then the next paragraph you say "prove me wrong with scientific >evidence ... that a moly coated motor will not last longer and free >up lost power in friction.." You should really choose one idea and >stick with it. Which one is it?

Bill is right here. Coatings wont PRODUCE more power, they would FREE UP lost power just as using underdrive pulleys and lightened flywheels free up power. Im sure every one would agree to that using lighter parts puts less drag on the engine. Reducing friction puts less drag on the engine. Im sure you even know that. Make sure you also READ what is being said right. Also, I believe he said they were baked on and NOT sprayed on.

I think so far everyone in this post has read something the wrong way and then someone ended saying crap about it.

Also, grow up!! Quit typing on that name and use your real name. You may know a lot about this kind of stuff, but not many will take you serisouly because your being immature. You may be right about this stuff, but your being immature by coming on here and using a name and attacking another 2gnt memeber. Yes you are atacking him because of your sig and becuase of your name. Your name is soley to make fun of Motofool. dont gives us crap saying otherwise.

"Shop smart, shop S-Mart!" ~ Ash
Member # 1523

>>You're a dumbass.
>Bill is right here.

Yeah, he's right. Sure. He can't even make up his mind!

>Coatings wont PRODUCE more power, they would FREE UP lost power just
> as using underdrive pulleys and lightened flywheels free up power.

uh-huh. You guys over analize things. Do you think bill's going to end up using underdrive pulleys, a lightened flywheel and everything else he can he help him free up horsepower? If he did that you'd see PROPER quench on the tops of those pistons. Not only that, but he wouldn't be using Wiseco's because they're like the heaviest piston ever produced.

>Im sure every one would agree to that using lighter parts puts less
>drag on the engine.

Uh, no. Lighter parts rotating result in less rotating mass. If you wanted to go into some "hypothetical" situation about weights of things, you wouldn't even want to coat anything because it'd add a few extra grams here and there. I don't think he's running titanium rods, either.

>Reducing friction puts less drag on the engine.

Okay, well, I bet Bill is using really thin rings, and dry sumping his engine so that he can get the least friction anywhere. Here's a clue for you: The rings cause way more friction on the cylinders than the skirts of the pistons do.

> Make sure you also READ what is being said right.

Why? you don't READ what I'm saying at all. Bill's just pissed off because I just might be right. Crappy coatings don't work.

>Also, I believe he said they were baked on and NOT sprayed on.

ahem. No, he said "$650 HVLP Gun" ... do you know what those are used for? AUTOMOTIVE PAINT.

>Also, grow up!!

Wait, hold on, let me throw a tantrum.

WaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhhh.

Okay, I'm done now.

>Quit typing on that name and use your real name.

This is my name. I'm using it. I chose it because I like motors and tools. How come nobody believes that? :roll

>You may know a lot about this kind of stuff, but not
>many will take you serisouly because your being immature.

I just pointed out the fact that those are crappy coatings on crappy pistons, and everyone gets in an uproar about it. So what, big deal? Wiseco's have no thought put into them, and they're made out of crappy metal. On top of that, some guy went and sprayed on that 1600 degree "ceramic" based paint, then POLISHED it, and he thinks it's going to actually DO something. That's like getting your piston powdercoated. Duh.

>Yes you are atacking him because of your sig and
>becuase of your name.

w00d u by3 sum3th1ng fr0m a gy3 th4t c4nt sp34ll n3th1ng r1t3?

>Your name is soley to make fun of Motofool.

Were you with me when I registered? How do you know? He makes fun of his own name. it's got FOOL in it.

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

>Wait, hold on, let me throw a tantrum.

>WaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhhh.

>Okay, I'm done now.

Ha, now that was funny. Made me giggle. Anyway.

Ligther parts make less rotational mass which makes less drag. Dont attempt to argue this point. It may not necessarily be a big difference but there is still a difference. Also, I was simply saying less friction can free up power and let the engine rev faster just as pulleys and lightened flywheels do. I never said he was using them.

Ok, fine, he used the gun or whatever, at which, I didnt think HE coated them. I thought he had someone else doing it.

Also, your name is making fun of his and I bet that everyone on here would agree to that. And yeah you probbaly do like tools and motors but you still ar emaking fun of his name. You cant prove that otherwise.

Anyway, Im done with that. I want to hear what you think one should do then. Such as, what pistons to use, why, if coatings are bad, why then? how do you free up power or make less friction?

oh, one other thing. This is a message board and people have to type to post on here. So if someone happens to make a spelling mistake, its probably because they mistyped it. I make mistakes a lot becuase I type fast and I dont always catch my mistake. Oh and, someone doe snot need to spell a word perfectly for someone to read it and heres why... kind of funny if you ask me.

"Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae.
The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm.
Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe."

on that note, how about we start over here and not attack each other and the crap we say, but attempt to have a somewhat decent conversation which would require BOTH of us to work on it and not just one of us. sound good to you?

one more thing, why is this the ONLY thread (other than the one that was already locked) that you are talking in? makes me wonder

"Shop smart, shop S-Mart!" ~ Ash
Member # 1523

>Ligther parts make less rotational mass which makes less drag.

What's your definition of Drag? If it's this:

"(1) : the retarding force acting on a body (as an airplane) moving through a fluid (as air) parallel and opposite to the direction of motion (2) : friction between engine parts; also : retardation due to friction"

then you're not correct. weight doesn't neccesarily cause friction. I can add 100 pounds to my flywheel, and it'll take longer to rev, but it will not be causing drag due to friction.

>Dont attempt to argue this point.

That's your problem. #1: any point can be argued. #2: you saying something like that under the assumption that you're right only leads to a point to be argued. #3: this point is arguable, but only because you're not completely correct in saying "Ligther parts make less rotational mass which makes less drag." which isn't, in fact, correct. Then you tell me I can't argue your incorrect point? You've been smoking the crack a little too long.

>It may not necessarily be a big difference but there is still a
>difference.

How do you know? Is it measurable? Is it even worth it? $100+ dollars for .0000001 whp? You get the same gains when it's one degree colder outside.

>I never said he was using them.

Okay. My point is that if he's doing one thing and not another he's trying to "free up" horsepower in vain.

>Ok, fine, he used the gun or whatever, at which, I didnt think
>HE coated them. I thought he had someone else doing it.

He said he didn't coat them. He also said that they use a $650 gun to coat them.

>Anyway, Im done with that. I want to hear what you think one
>should do then. Such as, what pistons to use, why, if coatings
>are bad, why then? how do you free up power or make less
>friction?

Putting a turbo on your car makes all this other stuff not matter very much. how come nobody understands that? If your car is tuned properly, coatings do NOTHING for you. If you think you're going to burn a hole in your piston, or your stuff pings all the time, that's where the coatings help. PROPERLY applied high quality coatings, that is.

>oh, one other thing. This is a message board and people have
>to type to post on here. So if someone happens to make a
>spelling mistake, its probably because they mistyped it.

Proper grammar in typing, as in speaking, is a sign of intelligence. If some guy on the Internet is talking to you about what you should do to your car, and is trying to get your business, wouldn't you feel more comfortable if he sounded intelligent? I would.

>I make mistakes a lot becuase I type fast and I dont always
>catch my mistake.

Okay. We all make mistakes, and live with them. But when u type thngs lke ths b cuz its eezier 2 tpe thn u r n0t misspealling th1ngs, u r b3ing LAZY. b cuz itz EZ R 2 tpye lke a sl0b end uther ppl n3ed 2 dec0d3 whut ur s4yn. C whut I m33n?

>on that note, how about we start over here and not attack each
>other and the crap we say, but attempt to have a somewhat
>decent conversation which would require BOTH of us to work on
>it and not just one of us. sound good to you?

Yeah, you should really work on it. If you do that, then I guess we can have a decent conversation.

So, How was your day today? Was it good? Mine was. Thank you for asking

>one more thing, why is this the ONLY thread (other than the
>one that was already locked) that you are talking in?

Beecuz thugh sheit doughsent knead two hyt thugh phan n evory thophic han twogeee enntee.

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

>then you're not correct. weight doesn't neccesarily cause
>friction. I can add 100 pounds to my flywheel, and it'll take
>longer to rev, but it will not be causing drag due to
>friction.

Maybe I should have worded it differently. Less weight will let it rev faster but not necessarily creat less friction. My bad on that part. However though, the frictional force is equal to the coefficient of friction x the normal force. So a heavier object will have a greater frictional force on it. Hence, where the lighter parts and less friction came into play. Theres more to this and stuff but Im getting ready to go to lunch and dont feel like typing it all out.


>That's your problem. #1: any point can be argued. #2: you
>saying something like that under the assumption that you're
>right only leads to a point to be argued. #3: this point is
>arguable, but only because you're not completely correct in
>saying "Ligther parts make less rotational mass which makes
>less drag." which isn't, in fact, correct. Then you tell me I
>can't argue your incorrect point? You've been smoking the
>crack a little too long.

True any point can be argued, just as there is a question for every answer....not sure how that fits into this but whatever.

>How do you know? Is it measurable? Is it even worth it? $100+
>dollars for .0000001 whp? You get the same gains when it's one
>degree colder outside.

I would say that anything to create less friction would be good. Hell they constantly try ot make oils to create less friction, why not try coatings or certain materials to create less friction? just a thought.

>Okay. My point is that if he's doing one thing and not another
>he's trying to "free up" horsepower in vain.

ok, i see your point now, but, I would do some things to my car to free up weight but not others. I eventully want to get a lightened flywheel but i dont want to get underdrive pulleys for various reasons. Yeah a lightened flywheel is probably the biggest or best way to do this but some of the other things i dont like or for whatever reasons.

>Putting a turbo on your car makes all this other stuff not
>matter very much. how come nobody understands that? If your
>car is tuned properly, coatings do NOTHING for you. If you
>think you're going to burn a hole in your piston, or your
>stuff pings all the time, that's where the coatings help.
>PROPERLY applied high quality coatings, that is.

Ok, thats all I wanted to know.

>Yeah, you should really work on it. If you do that, then I
>guess we can have a decent conversation.

I did say both of us, but less just drop that...of which ignore this line.

>So, How was your day today? Was it good? Mine was. Thank you
>for asking

Mine is great actually. This is my last week of co-op before I go back to school. So working about 830-3 with long lunches is nice, and still getting paid for 40 hours is cool too.

>Beecuz thugh sheit doughsent knead two hyt thugh phan n evory
>thophic han twogeee enntee.

Understandable....

"Shop smart, shop S-Mart!" ~ Ash
Member # 1523

Tool- just don't buy from him if you don't like his shit. He's at least made an effort to help fellow 2gnt members. I have one of Bill's turbo manifolds and have made a large amount of power with it.

Wiseco isn't the best piston out there and he never claimed that it was. He never said anyone HAS to coat their pistons (which need sprayed on before it's baked on, not one or the other). But, the parts he is providing us are better than stock and are cost effective.

Please take your immature JB welded intake comments and such nonsense to the pits. I don't really care how much you know, I'm tired of seeing your name already... and this is only your second post.

I wish you actually did know what you were talking about... maybe then you'd try helping people instead of trying to cause controversy.

Just curious if Mototool is canadian since he claims to know Marco from Magnus. Also I think he brings up some good points, sometimes it is good to call someone out on an issue. Some of you may remember when Shawn from NER, Skrilla, and to an extent Wyatt were all looked upon very highly by the 2GNT community untill they started screwing people over. Im not saying Motofool is in any way tring to do this and I dont think Mototool should be banned.

_______________________________________


95 Talon ESi-T

>Just curious if Mototool is canadian

Eh buddy, I'm not Canadian, eh? Screw you buddy!

What's this all aboot??

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

yeah, im curious as to how he knows Marco. or anyone from Magnus Motorsports

"Shop smart, shop S-Mart!" ~ Ash
Member # 1523

Well, I am the other Bill from GotTude.com. I can't say that I appreciate the parody of my company name. Just because you do not appreciate the knowledge of one of the partners gives you no right to parody the good name that I have worked (and helped) to create.
I see that you do have much knowledge, and you know the right people. Now, rather then accusing you of being a Canuckistanian like Marco Passente, I will actually ask how you know Marco. Would you, by chance, be a member of NABR (your devout attention to grammar and spelling indicate such)? And if so, were you at the shootout?
All bantering aside, building a motor, as I am sure that you well realize, is a comedy of compromise. Many factors must be weighed and balanced (pun notwithstanding), from rotational mass verses adequate inertia to launch, internal friction verses rotating mass, to price verses power. Certain factors must yield to others. I would be interested in seeing a motor with Ti rods, superlight pistons, counterweights removed, underdriven pulleys all around, and paper-light flywheel be able to launch in any non traction-impaired scenario. Sometimes, it is more important to maintain a bit of rotational inertia to actually be able to get the car moving, and that is when the issue of coatings comes into play. Making the best of the motor by reducing internal friction without breaking the bank and making a motor that is next to impossible to launch with slicks.
I have no experience with the shop who did the coatings on Bill's motor, but I have heard (secondhand knowledge here), that the shop is reputable. I asked Bill about the bubbling on the pistons, and he wasn't thrilled to see it.
The biggest compromise that had to be made in putting his motor together was cost. He started this business because the job market REALLY sucks where he lives, and the cost of living is not terribly high. This translates into low wages, which are not conducive to making a lot of power from a small motor, especially a 4 cylinder. So, he started the business with no startup capitol, and has done his best to make it grow. When I came on board, I wanted to increase the variety of products available for the 2GNT community, and felt that it would be best to do so with an established, but fledgling, company. If this is a problem to you, kindly keep your opinion to yourself. If you have any questions regarding the company, please contact me privately. If you have any questions about our products, please feel free to post publicly, and we will do our best to address your concerns, and possibly explain where we are coming from.
I get the impression that you were not terribly impressed with the intake manifold that we are trying to develop. Please note that the pictures that you saw were only from the prototype stage, and far from a finished product. The finished product will not have holes tapped directly into 1/8" Al. There will be a plate in place which will increase the thickness to 1/4" at the very least. This manifold is another work influenced by compromise. Will it outperform a perfectly engineered sheetmetal manifold? Probably not. Will it be considerably cheaper? You can bank on it. This is a stage one manifold, designed for people who want a large bang for their buck. I am currently working the math on another style of manifold that is usually referred to as a "reverse collector" manifold. I do not have the dimensions ready, and the diagrams are not at the point where they can be publicly posted. This manifold, however, could be set up and tuned for any RPM, but I am doing the math for a high RPM high turbo setup. There will be a fuel rail of similar principle to go along with the manifold. The goal is to have a manifold and fuel rail that will reduce or eliminate hot cylinders and cold cylinders.
I hope that I was able to show you that this business is innovative, creating new products and using new designs. However, we must be able to appreciate the tight fisted people who are not willing (or able!) to drop $600-$700 for a properly made manifold, or $2000+ for the best internals out there. In a perfect world, we would focus on the best of the best. In the real world, however, compromises must be made.
-=B-=

Dude, Boeing called. They want their wing back.

Dark0ne95: There is a butthole on that girl that his going to feel the wrath of 23 yeras of worldwide hate.
Me: Can I put that in my sig?
Dark0ne95: GO right fucking ahead.

edit: nevermind...

this is all so bunk!!! wtf! here is where i sit now...


MotoTool. Good job. you found a problem. Yeah, I have no problem discussing things like this. just don't talk shit when you do it!!! state your opinion. not your vulgar/profain vocabulary. When someone resorts to making fun of them because they make typos, thats really lame. I don't think he should be banned. I think he should quit talking smack and i as well. Mototool, you need to argue about something that is relevent! someone will make a statement about pistons, and you'll counter it by saying, no way, because mcdonalds french fries are better! you might be right but noone cares. just like the coatings, they WERE NOT SPRAYED! so leave it alone. So what If he wants to make his engine have a few minor performance details such as ceramic/moly coatings.??? do you really care? Does he HAVE to make his engine all out drag? i highly doubt you even own a car. It seems to me most of the things you say, come straight from google.com my friend. Bill already stated above that this is just an engine that will be nice, but not as nice as the one he will be making later. so you don't need to get after him about using all the bleeding edge parts. he can use whatever the hell he wants. its not being sold to you is it??? and as far as him not putting parts into his car that he sells, didn't he say he was on a budget? yeah... weisco are a bang for the buck piston. and if you don't agree, that is nice. just like eagle rods. they are nice rods, not the best, but they will work just freakin fine. why don't you get after every other memeber on this board for not using the eagle extremes??? You just need to lay off a bit and so do i. I just find that most of your views have been twisted and deformed... Cut to da CHEESE BRO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

late.

Having Problems? Heres my Three step solution to anything 2gnt related.
Step 1: Put down everything in your hands.
Step 2: Grab a lucky strike, Smoke it.
Step 3: Walk to the fridge, double fist some keystone ice, sit down in the shade, drink one beer, finish cigarette, drink other beer, roll a joint, smoke it, walk back to your problem, and in about 5 minutes the solution will come to you.
If not. Go here: here

If still nothing, your trying to hard. Start over at step 1.

>Yeah, I have no problem discussing things like this. just don't talk
>shit when you do it!!!

I'm not talking shit about crappy pistons or coatings. No amount of discussion will change the fact that I think they're both poor in this case.

>state your opinion. not your vulgar/profain vocabulary.

I curtsy to you, too, find gentleman. Point out the vulgarific profanities in anything that I posted? I see. Yes, that wasn't posted by me. You'll notice most of the posts that AREN'T mine are filled with profanities. Unless you consider "curtsy" a profane word.

>When someone resorts to making fun of them because they make typos,
>thats really lame.

I know it is. They're not typos, though. They're deliberate. Being lazy isn't a typo, it's a disease.

>someone will make a statement about pistons, and you'll
>counter it by saying, no way, because mcdonalds french fries
>are better!

I like Burger King frys, thank you very much. They're made with peanut oil which mades them stronger than McFrys, and they cut through the windage better than McFrys. Did I say windage? I meant Ketchup.

>you might be right but noone cares. just like the coatings, they
>WERE NOT SPRAYED!

How do you know they weren't sprayed? Did you ask Bill yourself? I did. He told me they were put on with a "$650 HPVL gun".

>do you really care?

No. But other people need to realize that coatings aren't the end all solution to their performance upgrades.

>Does he HAVE to make his engine all out drag?

No. Does he have to try to sell things to everyone on 2gnt?

>i highly doubt you even own a car.

You're right, I don't. I don't even know what an automobile is. I'm into french fries. I make internal combustion engines out of potatoes and peanut oil.

I'm so surprised you found out that I work at Burger King. Not to offend any of you who do work at Burger King.

>It seems to me most of the things you say, come straight from
>google.com my friend.

Really? Google is psychic? Can you quote where I found my information? I mean, if you said it's all on Google, you should have no problem finding it.

Maybe my information really comes from knowing what I'm talking about?
I got that definition of Drag from Merriam-Webster. I wanted to make sure we all knew what the definition was, so I posted it here.

>Bill already stated above that this is just an engine that will be
>nice, but not as nice as the one he will be making later.

That's funny. No, really, it's my vaporware thing that Bill didn't get before. He asked where he could pick some up, but it looks like he's already got some.

>he can use whatever the hell he wants. its not being sold to you
>is it???

He's trying. I bet if I asked about them, he'd reply with "c4ll m3 up, I'll g1v3 y4 my sp34c14l pr1c1ng 0n th3m!"

>yeah... weisco are a bang for the buck piston.

so are stockers.

>and if you don't agree, that is nice.

I don't. It is Nice.

I wouldn't use Eagle rods if I had the chance to. I'd use french fries.

>You just need to lay off a bit and so do i. I just
>find that most of your views have been twisted and deformed...

which ones? I'll be happy to rewrite the sentences so they say the same thing using different words for you.

>Cut to da CHEESE BRO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cut the cheese? no, that wasn't me. Maybe it was your dog?

Are you upset because you have Wiseco Pistons or something? This is a real question, I'm not being a smart prick about it or anything like that. Really, why are you so upset about all of this?

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

I dont mind a professional arguement about anything but you are not being professional and just want to stir up shit...

When you get to a question you cannot answer you bring out stupid things like calling forged pistons silly putty and not even usging the proper term for coatings,

Just cause you dont like coatings doesn't mean they dont work...
your either hiding the fact that friction additives work or you just dont want to loose an argument..

and if coatings dont work why does 80% of ring manufactueres use Moly coating on rings on the edge that touches the cylinder walls...(mind u these are sprayed on and baked also but thats irrevant, cause all moly coatings and ceramic coatings are well 90% of the ones in use today)

and how can a properly tuned motor reduce friction it cant!
ceramic coating is just a barrier to help with the problem of melting pistons for a number of reason the #1 reason is for bad tuning...

people that are running as much boost as i plan to often strive to get the most out of what they can...

with paying the cheaper price for a weisco piston and having it coated it will last longer toward detonation then a higher quality piston not coated..


yea im sure you can find a small detail in anything i say that can be twisted 1000 ways...

If your want to make this a more professional level and remove the childish remarks from all sides, I ask for you to kindly change your signature to something more appropriate. If you dont Like my products fine there are other vendors.

Bill

You can have it cheap, fast or good. Pick any two.

If you want it cheap and fast, it's not going to be good.
If you want it cheap and good, it's not going to be fast.
If you want it good and fast, it's not going to be cheap.

>I dont mind a professional arguement about anything but you
>are not being professional and just want to stir up shit...

u r beeing prufessunale? Eye kudent t3ll.

>When you get to a question you cannot answer you bring out
>stupid things like calling forged pistons silly putty

That's an insult. Silly putty is a better alloy than what they make Wiseco's out of. Okay, I'll be prudent. What questions did I not answer?

>and not even usging the proper term for coatings,

You mean hyperprochromeloly isn't correct? You got me confused when you had your moly / polymoly / chromeoly runaround. Maybe you can clear that up for me?

"Chromoly is a metal, it is a baked on finish and isn't far from 4030 Chromoly." Actually, that's not a direct quote, I cleaned it up, and made it sound better, but you get the idea.

So, you don't use that do you? You use a Moly that you just spray on and watch dry, and I correct?

>Just cause you dont like coatings doesn't mean they dont
>work...

I didn't say I don't like coatings. I said I don't like CHEAP coatings.

>your either hiding the fact that friction additives work or
>you just dont want to loose an argument..

I don't loose things very often. That sounds painful. But I think you actually tried 2 saye "lose" as in "not win" and you're right. I don't like to lose arguments. I wasn't trying to start one, because I stated my OPINION in the first post about this topic... and that topic was? You're right. It was crappy pistons with crappy coatings.

>and if coatings dont work why does 80% of ring manufactueres
>use Moly coating on rings on the edge that touches the
>cylinder walls...

I don't know why 80% of ring manufactueres does uses them. Your moly coating is so thin and weak that it would be scraped off almost instantly on the edge of the ring anyway. Which ring manufacturers does this, I'm just curious. Do they use the same coatings you do?

>and how can a properly tuned motor reduce friction it cant!

I didn't say it couldn't. On a turbocharged application, though, the friction, and the "flow" of air is all relatively irrelevant. I think we're talking about different coatings.

>ceramic coating is just a barrier to help with the problem of
>melting pistons for a number of reason the #1 reason is for
>bad tuning...

Why else would you melt a piston, other than bad tuning? It all comes down to how much fuel someone forgot to put into their air:fuel mixture along with the air that they put in. That all comes down to tuning.

>people that are running as much boost as i plan to often
>strive to get the most out of what they can...

How much boost do you plan to run? I run 30psi on CAST pistons. I know how to tune my lawnmower, though, so I guess that's a whole different story? By that rationale, you must run like 50 bajillion pound of boost, right?

>with paying the cheaper price for a weisco piston and having
>it coated it will last longer toward detonation then a higher
>quality piston not coated..

Uhh How can you prove that? I'd take a high quality non coated piston any day over a low quality coated one. On top of that, I'd take any uncoated piston any day over one that YOU had coated, with all those bubbles in your ceramic coatings. eek.

>I ask for you to kindly change your signature to something more
>appropriate.

Is it the "w3 d0 stuff 2 ur c4r" or is it the "GotTard" that's so offensive to you? Or is it just "The other white meat"?

>If you dont Like my products fine there are other vendors.

I know, and I use them instead. They don't plaster their crap all over 2gnt all the time, offering up "special pricing" to people. How shady does that sound? Do you accept Paypal?

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

OK I couldn't let this one go......

"with paying the cheaper price for a weisco piston and having it coated it will last longer toward detonation then a higher quality piston not coated.."


I disagree with that comment. I'm not going to get in the middle of this but when I see something like that, I can't let it go.

Nick

This is entertaining....

^^^ funny guy.... and yes entertaining. whos right? whos wrong? the world will never know.

(ok that sounds like the stupid "how many licks to the center of a tootsie pop commercial)

One more thing and then Im pretty much done with this. Mototool is being immature by making fun of Motofool and constantly spelling words the way he is such as "w3 du etc" and he is immature for the signature that he has. For these main reasons, I find nothing from him usful. He may be right about some of this stuff, but I still dont trust him as I dont trust immature people.


one more thing about the coatings. Bill said hey are sprayed on then BAKED on. Mototool, quit saying he just sprays them on and thats it, because you have said that numerous times now. Bill has stated they are sprayed and baked on. Make a note of that.

I also find it funny that this is the only thred (other than the one that was locked) that Mototool has had anything to say on. If he knows so much, why does he not look around on the rest of the forum and try to help others out rather than solely using this thread and having this argument go on longer than it needs too?


...this thread is growing faster than a thread full of porn pictures and websites...

"Shop smart, shop S-Mart!" ~ Ash
Member # 1523

Personally I would never run wiseco anything in my motor. Bill knows his stuff, but I cannot say I agree with everything he preaches. I would rather anyone on the board not post technical stuff if they do not know its true. Or at least include something like "a little fucking bird told me wisecos suck" so its taken with a grain of salt. Mr Mototool has disguised his real name because everyone wants to give Bill a free reach around when he posts something. Anyone who disagrees with his gospel gets attacked. I don't blame him for making a new nick name. Everyone here is human, we all make mistakes. But if I shit on the couch I don’t make my friends clean it up, ill take responsibility for it and everyone else should also.

How about a little constructive criticism instead of bastardizing every thread!


edit:
Eagle5: "also find it funny that this is the only thred (other than the one that was locked) that Mototool has had anything to say on."

That is a false statement sir. It sounds like YOU should take a look around.

____________________________________________________
four nails four corners four riders and four horses

>Mr Mototool has
>disguised his real name because everyone wants to give Bill a
>free reach around when he posts something. Anyone who
>disagrees with his gospel gets attacked.

I think this is the funniest thing i've read all day. Sadly, it's true. I'm willing to bet that's why this individual is doing this.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

>That is a false statement sir. It sounds like YOU should take
>a look around.

It was not false not long ago. Up until maybe an hour ago, ( not sure as the time on the board is not the same as my time on comp ??) this was the only thred. He started to post on the Mototool thread in the pits.

SO my statement was not false. Now it is false, however it was not false.

This is the only useful thread he has posed anything in. how about that?

"Shop smart, shop S-Mart!" ~ Ash
Member # 1523

>It was not false not long ago.

h3 1s r1t3. th1s st4t3m3nt wuz n0t f4ls3 4n h0ur 4g0

>SO my statement was not false. Now it is false, however it was
>not false.

th1s 1s 4ssum3sm1ng. u 2 r f1t31ng 4 n0 r34s0n

>This is the only useful thread he has posed anything in. how
>about that?

that's not true. I posted two days ago but the triple action moderators didn't agree with what I had to say. All that stuff was entirely useful, but since I wasn't all up on Bill's grill my threads were deleted. I went against what Bill said, it was great. Let's do it again tomorrow.

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

>that's not true. I posted two days ago but the triple action
>moderators didn't agree with what I had to say. All that stuff
>was entirely useful, but since I wasn't all up on Bill's grill
>my threads were deleted. I went against what Bill said, it was
>great. Let's do it again tomorrow. \

ok. I meant after that post. as before i believe I said that the other times. however, i forget what was said in that post. I read it but dont remember it. oh well anyway.

(The following is a serious question, so please respond seriously to it) Im curious as to where you know all this stuff from? Like where did you find this info out or what not? Im just wondering and I am in no way saying your making any of it up. I really want to knwo how you know some of the things you have said about pistons and such.

again, that is meant as a serious question and not to attack you or anything else, but solely, as a question.

Have a nice day!

"Shop smart, shop S-Mart!" ~ Ash
Member # 1523

>that's not true. I posted two days ago but the triple action
>moderators didn't agree with what I had to say. All that stuff
>was entirely useful, but since I wasn't all up on Bill's grill
>my threads were deleted. I went against what Bill said, it was
>great. Let's do it again tomorrow.

In case you truly question why your first posts were deleted and locked:

1. You obviously created your username and signature simply to attack MotoFool and expose his faults

2. Your responses were rather unprofessional and looked like the start of a nice flame war

3. You had no history, so I felt no reason to cut you slack


I believe that this thread and your username are still active because:

1: You've sparked some beneficial discussion

2: Your attitude is tempered by some definite knowledge

3: You're a bit of an enigma now

4: Its like a train-wreck...you have to watch

Corbin

'95 ESI-T
HRC+FMIC+ETC...



Gimme fuel...Gimme fire...Gimme that which I desire

>4: Its like a train-wreck...you have to watch

He's got my attention

Allan
2008 Magnetic Black 350z NISMO /1976 Austin Mini 1098 Special (export)

Member# 1980

I don't who will use this for your arguement but these are our "good pistons" and "good coated pistons" ... we use both.

^^^^ dem purrrrrty

"Shop smart, shop S-Mart!" ~ Ash
Member # 1523

If anyone cares they are CP's

I was wondering if they were CP's or not. figured they were. i assume the top ones are coated and the bottom are regular considering how shiny they are

"Shop smart, shop S-Mart!" ~ Ash
Member # 1523

this is one of the silliest longest threads ive read in a long time, its suprising that a mod has let this foolishness continue.

DWAYNE H


www.gottude.com
Red/Black/Silver 01 GSXR 750
Lots of Apexi components...

Are you kidding?? Dino even got in on it. I haven't posted because I don't know shit about pistons, and I might add, there are a few people who have posted and made themselves look like idiots! But, I will say that I have learned a thing or two due to this thread, so I can understand why it is still going. Plus, it's pretty entertaining

Allan
2008 Magnetic Black 350z NISMO /1976 Austin Mini 1098 Special (export)

Member# 1980

>Are you kidding?? Dino even got in on it. I haven't posted
>because I don't know shit about pistons, and I might add,
>there are a few people who have posted and made themselves
>look like idiots! But, I will say that I have learned a thing
>or two due to this thread, so I can understand why it is still
>going. Plus, it's pretty entertaining

I'm with you...hehe

User banned for scamming members on 2GNT, WIDSM, and CHITOWNDSM. This user and his brother Jason Ames have been involved with theft of parts from other DSM members. This individual is not trustworthy and should not be involved in any type of sale.

VT loves the CP's! ^ major bling factor heh. I wish I would have got CP's, but i guess the JE's will hold up just as well.

Eagle5; Wrong again sir!
http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=59389&mode=full

____________________________________________________
four nails four corners four riders and four horses

>Eagle5; Wrong again sir!
>http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=59389&mode=full

haha, yeah, I actually caught that not long after I posted that. ah oh well. I actually remember reading that earlier too, not sure why I forgot about it but oh well. Im done with all this. it was entertaining for awhile.

note: he has at most 2 posts with something useful in it, the first one he had and this one. hows that for ya?

"Shop smart, shop S-Mart!" ~ Ash
Member # 1523

heheh. ^

Well i wish mototool was here a couple weeks ago! I ended up polishing my pistons with bakeing soda tooth paste and using peanut butter instead of assembly lube!!

____________________________________________________
four nails four corners four riders and four horses

>VT loves the CP's! ^ major bling factor heh. I wish I would
>have got CP's, but i guess the JE's will hold up just as
>well.
>
>Eagle5; Wrong again sir!
>http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=59389&mode=full

There is nothing wrong with JE's

>>VT loves the CP's! ^ major bling factor heh. I wish I would
>>have got CP's, but i guess the JE's will hold up just as
>>well.
>>
>>Eagle5; Wrong again sir!
>>http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=59389&mode=full
>
>There is nothing wrong with JE's
>


Yeah i know, but i have JE's in my other motor and figured i would try something new. At least I know they worked great in this other motor. This is Derek BTW.

____________________________________________________
four nails four corners four riders and four horses

Tom said you called yesterday, What's up with the cams?????????

Good discussion (somewhat). I've learned a couple of things myself...I think.

Let's just try and keep BS to a minimum.

Be mindful folks, there's absolutely nothing wrong with debate and argument. Sometimes IMO, it's the best way to educate the audience. The only thing we moderators do not care for are namecalling and other childish innuendos. Other than that, we prefer to not censor and I believe we let most things go. I understand some BS has occurred here, to some degree, but I think the solid discussion is worthy for it to continue (for a while longer) if we can all at least try and play like adults.

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

Agreed. I have also found this educational. Interesting is also a nice way of saying things.

To mototool, maybe things are just read wrong? then again most of your posts do sound uhm...rude? ( runs un fear of retaliation.. ) but seriously though. Forgot who but they did make a good point. You do make some good points and share some of your know how. It might not be the nicest but it is there. The method of delivery could use some "polishing" itself but theres always time for him to cool off a bit.

I know I can come off as a smart-ass so its no biggie. Motofool is an established member of our community ( I talk to him on AIM)thats why we defend him and i can see why we should. Lets not forget though that what makes this site great is that we welcome new ppl. esp those with things to say so the rest of us may learn.

Thats all I have to say on the matter

Member # 751


FOUNDER of the Central Cali chapter of 2GNT!
(I got kicked out after I refused to go Cow tiping) - Hehehe you know who this is for

Hello vt, thank you for the posts on the pistons and coatings...

The Coatings on the CP are sprayed on then baked, but no remarks are said about vt's ? (interesting)

If somone does not like my advice or what I have said ona subject then start a professional argument, I do not take offence in being wrong, i Take offence to Hacks at me and My Buisness. I am done with this mud slinging contest.

Mototool when you decide, to stop the childish remarks then I might participate in another one of your debates in various aspects of the DSM world.

Bill
moving on cause this will never get anywhere with your 1337 talk

You can have it cheap, fast or good. Pick any two.

If you want it cheap and fast, it's not going to be good.
If you want it cheap and good, it's not going to be fast.
If you want it good and fast, it's not going to be cheap.