over the wintertime I want to do the 2.4 swap but I have no money to turbo, so I'd do it the all-motor way. Would there be anything different I would have to do electronically or fuel-wise as compared to a turbo 2.4? Most guys who do the swap already have turbo setups and the supporting stuff (S-AFC and Vortech SFMU and so on) so I don't think this topic has come up for discussion much.
My own intuition says that I would probably need the ECU and fuel pump from the 2.4 donor because bigger motor needs more air & fuel then the 2.0's stock supporting parts will provide. My guess is that I just use the ECU (or screw messing with an ECU and just get a Megasquirt while my car is blown apart for five months), grab a S-AFC for tuning, and a bigger fuel pump and SFMU for safety, but I haven't done the swap and other guys here have. What do you have to say?

1995 Eagle Talon ESi

ive been trying to get driggs to go all motor 2.4 forever!

the guys over at forward motion can even make you custom allum rods with custom pistons for any CR you want (less weight is always good) or even the steel 6.16 rods i went with slightly more weight. 200+whp is EASYYYY. you know the phrase 'no replacement for displacement' well this applies to NA car's mostly imo, same in this situation. you just cant beat a longer stroke. lol. anyway with custom rods and pistons and obviously a fuel management to control spark and fuel up in the higher rpm's you could easily wind it to 9500-10K rpm's....on top of that a neon gearset or something? thats just sick

but no, the stock 2gnt ecu can control the igniton and fuel tables for a 2.4. its actually pretty sweet. just a re-wire of some minor shit and it works. you'd need some 24lbers right off the bet or even raise the idle pressure with the stock injectors but thats not such a grand idea. accel 24's would do just fine. or even 310's...very commin with the neon guys. also an intank isnt such a bad idea either, but im also an advacate of taking care of supporting mods before the big cheese. ya know?

mild cam shafts to keep it streetable, custom pistons/rods, possibly nitrous, fuel management, etc...thats a fuckin mean ass NA 2gnt . and oh...no one has it yet either...so you'd be the first

why is it that the TALON guys push the envelopse the farthest??? muhahah!

edit: the more cc's on the street the better. the more low end torque on the street the better. this is exactly what a 2.4 will do for you. domination.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX


"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

why mild cams? Crane 0016's all the way. Anything higher and you'll need to run on race gas (if the cr is above 11:1) , or use methanol or propane injection. (NA booster) which wouldnt really be a bad thing imo. Would def run the megasquirt if youre not 97' , as portfueler or 8 injector on an NA doesnt seem like it makes too much sense obviously. Perhaps even E-manage.

For all motor i would sudgest you follow what the guys at neons.org are doing with their 2.4's

i think if i were to setup one from what i see them do

Megasquirt (with megaspark hopefully if they get the hall effect sensor pattern down for neons/eclipses)

Crane #22(they go bigger...), PnP head + 1mm valves (the full head works, btw if you doing head work check out fierro racing. )

High compression pistons needed (W Inj. anyone??)

sounds good....i would like to do that

Just that my goal is to be the fastest 2gnt auto so i definitively need turbo (wow lofty goal )

vote for your choice of body style for Bluie!! http://www.cardomain.com/id/bluemooneclipse

yeah but you cant run no crane 22's on pump gas. So imo, at most crane 0018's on 11:1 cr, and even then like i said, run methanol injection to raise the pump gas octane level. So in the likelyhood of wanting to go turbo later, run 0016's with 10:5:1 cr at most, with megasquirt, so you can still run a turbo on it as long as its tuned right. (DR1665's futuregoals - the 2.4)

what would be an ideal na setup using the 2.4l that would allow you to use pump gas as well as being streetable?

edit---i just realized how much of a noob that post made me sound like. i apologize for that.

www.gregsorrells.com

http://ubanimator.com>

so crane 16's on 10.5 compression.........would the afx ecu be a good idea as well? not sure whether or not a safc would be needed. as far as fuel is concerned, how much will it need to be upgraded?

www.gregsorrells.com

http://ubanimator.com>

Fuel needs to be upgraded to match the horsepower level I plan on making.. probably not a good idea to push the stock stuff too far (my car is only a '95) and the eventual goal is around 225 wheel horsepower so with around 300 flywheel horsepower (w/an auto trans I think 300 at the flywheel goes with 225 at the wheels) I should run pretty big injectors, 460s even, and then I'd need a Walbro pump for sure to keep up with it. If I go with 460s I'm pretty sure I could get by with the stock ECU since a 100% duty cycle would work. If I get bigger injectors I'd need to mess around with the electronics a bit though, compensate for a lower duty cycle or I'll just flood the motor and run pig rich ...

The thing I am most excited about is stroking this guy out to a 2.6 liter (that would be super-bad-ass). I remember reading somewhere that the 2.4 only has a larger bore then the 2.0 and as such the 2.2 stroker for the 2.0 works on the 2.4 as well to make it 2.6 (but I am probably mistaken since that doesn't sound quite right).

Camshafts are the biggest part of the plan. And since the motor is going to be in pieces anyways, why not get a port 'n' polish? I was looking into Stage 2 cams from Crower since that would give me bad-ass high RPM performance but depending on the whole bottom end deal spinning 10 grand on the stock rods would not be cool (and then I definitely need aftermarket engine management, stand-alone) and my car is auto so I'd have to figure out how to get it to shift at 9,500 instead of 6,400.

How bad-ass would a 2.6 liter all-motor 2GNT be? HOLY HELL I'm pumped for the wintertime.

1995 Eagle Talon ESi

umm...

well no, the 2.4 has the same bore size as the 2.0. just with a 101mm stroke, thats the major diff. the block is just taller = longer stroke. if i were you though i wouldnt go "2.6"...its not needed, and you wont be able to rip it to 9500 safely, imo. just go with the custom allum rods, 10:1 comp (or even stock 9.6:1 CR if you want) and some crower 2's or 3's. the torque downlow would be VERY fun...but you'll obviously never be as fast as the same motor boosted. there is no sense is going all out NA if you're auto anyway.

manual swap with a 3.55 trans and get a long rod 2.4L with a built head, oversized valves, crankscraper, udp, lightened flywheel, etc. the motor would rev REAL fast being that the internal weights are kept to a minimum with a the allum rods and shorter piston height (fress up some weight, which is always good)

but yea, just a simple .040 overbore is a LARGE 2.4L. a 2.6L motor is a custom stroker and in the end would not be worth it to get both a custom crank, custom rods and pistons. you'll be spending over 5K for what....a slightly broader torque curve?

edit: you wont need anything larger than 310 injectors for an NA 2.4...depends on some mods but you sure as hell dont need gargantuan injectors like on a turbo application. injector sizing is very important, look first at the motor as an airpump...and then figure how much air it pumps and therefore how much fuel it will need...and adjust the injector size accordingly.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX


"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

How'd Brynden get the 2.6 liter thang done ??
Reading up on old posts, you seem pretty fond of the SRT-4 stock rods how would they do in a all-motor application? If they are really as stout as it sounds then they would do as well as aftermarket bits? I see you talking alot about them being forged cracked cap so on but I don't see "aluminum" anywhere which is the buzzword for an all-motor buildup, imo.
Aftermarket pistons for sure. Bore .030 over to clean up all the crap and 10.5 compression is a safe bet. 11.5 takes either a lot of know-how or expensive gasoline. Stock 2.4 pistons might get it done in a pinch but it'd be a waste of effort to not to do it.
2.6 liter is out it seems. $5k is a big chunk of change that I could spend on a manual swap. I would do the swap, but there is no 2GNT parts cars in Canada to help get it done. Next time I see the swap parts in the For Sale I'm gonna have to get on it.
edit: A tranny swap in the for sale section!! A godsend!!

1995 Eagle Talon ESi

with the stock srt rods you can push up to 500+whp...(proven on an srt-4) but you also keep the 1.48 rod ratio, which isnt good for a high rpm screamer. the alluminum rods i was saying are a custom length you order from forward motion. you can also get billet steel rods in a custom length also with custom pistons. i wouldnt run to high of compression though, without some sort of detonation control that is (water injection, propane, etc)

the stock srt internals wont have that high of a redline. you'd need to throw in some custom shit, but thats just part of the game

edit:

brynden's 2.6 was a custom stroker. custom crank. as in longer than the 2.4's 101mm stroke. my 2.5L is just because of an overbore, lot cheaper that way to milk some cc's out of an already large cc block

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX


"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

get a bike...15k rpms muhaha.

Having Problems? Heres my Three step solution to anything 2gnt related.
Step 1: Put down everything in your hands.
Step 2: Grab a lucky strike, Smoke it.
Step 3: Walk to the fridge, double fist some keystone ice, sit down in the shade, drink one beer, finish cigarette, drink other beer, roll a joint, smoke it, walk back to your problem, and in about 5 minutes the solution will come to you.
If not. Go here: here

If still nothing, your trying to hard. Start over at step 1.

Waaahaa I searched and found my answer. So ya, let's hear more suggestions.
The motor mount... looks easy enough, measure twice cut once found a pic that should be very helpful. I'll have to find some spares so I don't mess up mine. Use aftermarket cams, don't have to mess with the cam magnet, rewire the injector pack 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, 4-1 .. all stock sensors fit right on... I should probably relocated my battery and take out my front bumper support too to get rid of the 2GNT's nose-heavy balance (but I do like that sure-footed turn in although lift-off oversteer is the suck) .. coilovers .. some new rims .. shave teh spoiler .. touch up the paint .. fix the dents
daaamn I am pumped for wintertime!!

1995 Eagle Talon ESi

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX


"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

1995 Eagle Talon ESi

www.gregsorrells.com

http://ubanimator.com>

one of the 2.4 true pionners

one of the 2.4 true pionners

www.gregsorrells.com

http://ubanimator.com>

Ok guys leme explain why you need to rotate the cam magnet...the magnet works with a hall sender sensor that controls the injector firing timing ...will be off causing a CEL and the worse part is that your injectors will not be firing at the optimal point for best power/fuel economy, and idle will be at best like a carb setup...

Now if you ran an UMS(megasquirt standalone with spark + WB02) i dont see why you would need to do any of the rewiring, me wating for UMS to see if i make the jump....oh and checking with the neon guys who are trying to addapt the MS to our hall effect sensor patterns so the MS spark works without the little crank sensor addapter.. (if im going MS im doing it all the way...not just as a fuel controler)

Its just taking a little more time for UMS to develop

vote for your choice of body style for Bluie!! http://www.cardomain.com/id/bluemooneclipse