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topic #104041

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Subject: "Needs low-end torque"

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N4cer	Apr-28-07 04:53 AM
Member since Aug 27th 2006 80 posts,

#104041, "Needs low-end torque"

DISCLAIMER: I've searched and searched, and can't find anything specific to this.

My Eclipse is my daily driver. It's a 1995 Eclipse GS. I already have my toy fast car, and this isn't it. I want better drivability instead of max speed.

What can I do to give it more balls down low? I mean, it runs great in the upper RPMs as we all know, but down low off the line, just driving normal, it's pathetic. What mods would be good for balls down low? Or should I go with a small turbo that spools low in the RPM range, and a good FMIC since it'll be in boost a lot? NOTE: NO MATTER WHICH ROUTE I GO, I'D LIKE TO USE MOSTLY USED PARTS SINCE MOST OF MY MONEY GOES TO MAKING THE SS WHAT I WANT IT TO BE. I'm thinking this if I stay NA (tell me what else you think):
Header/exhaust (nothing TOO loud)
CAI or short ram
Maybe cam gears?
Is there a cam swap that gives mostly low end balls? Based upon my limited cam knowledge, I can't see it happening without making it a turd in the rest of the rev range. But you guys know WAY more than me on the 420A.

If not, I'm thinking of piecing together a cheap turbo setup, since I'm NOT wanting it to outrun ANYTHING. Just to be more fun to drive. From reading here, I'm seeing that 5-8psi is totally reliable if done safely with heat control in mind. Correct me if I'm wrong. Tell me if this is along the right lines:
- mostly used parts -
14b
12:1 FMU (is this too outdated for like 5-8psi?)
FMIC (would a used SMIC be okay for this low level of boost, or is the FMIC worth it in performance gains?)
Piping
Catback (used stock GS-T?)
Manifold (does somebody make one, or will I have to make it myself?)
EGT and boost gauges
Will I need bigger injectors or a bigger fuel pump?

Anybody got any help for me? I greatly appreciate it. I know the info is all probably in the site, but it would take SOOO long to dig through all of it. It's hard to do that when some of you guys are total gurus on here and can answer this easier than squeezing out a small fart. After all, it is a "discussion board" and not a "sticky board". Thanks fellas.

**************************************
1995 Eclipse GS - bone stock
2000 Camaro SS - heads/cam/bottle

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Replies to this topic

RE: Needs low-end torque, Moderator

cs82685, Apr-28-07 05:11 AM, #1

RE: Needs low-end torque, N4cer, Apr-28-07 05:25 AM, #2

RE: Needs low-end torque, Moderator

cs82685, Apr-28-07 07:32 AM, #3

RE: Needs low-end torque, N4cer, Apr-28-07 08:16 AM, #4

RE: Needs low-end torque, RoninEclipse2G, Apr-28-07 08:43 AM, #5

RE: Needs low-end torque, Moderator

bullettdsm, Apr-28-07 12:02 PM, #6

RE: Needs low-end torque, N4cer, Apr-28-07 12:58 PM, #7

RE: Needs low-end torque, Moderator

bullettdsm, Apr-28-07 11:16 PM, #8

RE: Needs low-end torque, N4cer, Apr-29-07 05:08 PM, #9

RE: Needs low-end torque, goalie40, Apr-30-07 09:07 AM, #10

RE: Needs low-end torque, RallyEclipse98, Apr-30-07 12:37 PM, #11

RE: Needs low-end torque, goalie40, Apr-30-07 12:57 PM, #12

RE: Needs low-end torque, RallyEclipse98, Apr-30-07 01:08 PM, #13

cs82685	Apr-28-07 05:11 AM
Donating 2GNT member 2007 posts,

#104042, "RE: Needs low-end torque"
In response to Reply # 0

Originally posted by N4cer
I want better drivability instead of max speed. What can I do to give it more balls down low?

These things don't respond too well to bolt ons so I'd say stroker, 2.4l swap (from the cloud cars cirrus/stratus) or small turbo. Personally I think I'd go with the 2.4 swap in your position or a small turbo setup, both are going to require a bit of reading and research, the swap will require more fabrication though.

Originally posted by N4cer
I want better drivability instead of max speed. What can I do to give it more balls down low? Tell me if this is along the right lines: - mostly used parts - 14b 12:1 FMU (is this too outdated for like 5-8psi?) FMIC (would a used SMIC be okay for this low level of boost, or is the FMIC worth it in performance gains?) Piping Catback (used ock GS-T?) Manifold (does somebody make one, or will I have to make it myself?) EGT and boost gauges Will I need bigger injectors or a bigger fuel pump? Anybody got any help for me?

12:1 fmu is fine for stock injectors and 5-8psi on a 14b. You can use a stock dsm SMIC and get one for cheap. You won't need bigger injectors, but you will need a walbro 255lph hi-pressure pump (you can get the 190 but I think they are virtually the same if not the same $$ wise)

I contributed to the Wiki!
EVO IX - just a really expensive boost gauge and a K&N air filter
96 Eclipse RS -awaiting registration and inspection
95 Eclipse GS - parts car
Mods/Profile - http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=cs82685

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N4cer	Apr-28-07 05:25 AM
Member since Aug 27th 2006 80 posts,

#104043, "RE: Needs low-end torque"
In response to Reply # 1

Thanks bro. I've seen your posts and you seem to really know your stuff. Any ideas where to find a turbo manifold?
And do you think this is even okay to do to a daily driver?
I agree on the Walbro. I just put one in the SS. It was super easy. And thankfully, the Eclipse seems like it will be also. Do I need to upgrade the fuel pump wiring for my application? I know I had to on the SS, but that kinda uses a little more fuel. LOL!

**************************************
1995 Eclipse GS - bone stock
2000 Camaro SS - heads/cam/bottle

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cs82685	Apr-28-07 07:32 AM
Donating 2GNT member 2007 posts,

#104048, "RE: Needs low-end torque"
In response to Reply # 2
Apr-28-07 07:38 AM by cs82685

Originally posted by N4cer
Thanks bro. I've seen your posts and you seem to really know your stuff. Any ideas where to find a turbo manifold? And do you think this is even okay to do to a daily driver? I agree on the Walbro. I just put one in the SS. It was super easy. And thankfully, the Eclipse seems like it will be also. Do I need to upgrade the fuel pump wiring for my application? I know I had to on the SS, but that kinda uses a little more fuel. LOL!

You don't need to rewire your fuel pump but some people do.
It's a really easy installation, shouldn't take more than 1 hour from the very start to the very finish.

As for manifolds, might have to go the custom route, I think you can mod your stock exhaust manifold. Just do a quick search in the turbo section for 14b manifold should help you out a bit

Here's a couple threads to get you started
http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=97644&mode=full

14b bolted to stock mani:
http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=83141&mode=full

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=36636&mode=full

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N4cer	Apr-28-07 08:16 AM
Member since Aug 27th 2006 80 posts,

#104051, "RE: Needs low-end torque"
In response to Reply # 3

Thanks, bro. And stupid question, but 5-8lbs... what octane do I wanna run?

**************************************
1995 Eclipse GS - bone stock
2000 Camaro SS - heads/cam/bottle

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RoninEclipse2G	Apr-28-07 08:43 AM
Donating 2GNT member 2745 posts,

#104054, "RE: Needs low-end torque"
In response to Reply # 4

Any time you're going to add pressure run 91 min unless you're at an altitude of 9000+ ft

Erik P.
Official 2GNT thread Hijacker
Some say that he's driven over more Covenant than he's shot, and that his grenades aren't where you'd expect them to be...
All we know is, He's not The Stig... But he is The Stig's Spartan cousin!

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bullettdsm	Apr-28-07 12:02 PM
Donating 2GNT member 2676 posts,

#104057, "RE: Needs low-end torque"
In response to Reply # 5

If you had to put on just one single thing; MSnS.

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

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N4cer	Apr-28-07 12:58 PM
Member since Aug 27th 2006 80 posts,

#104058, "RE: Needs low-end torque"
In response to Reply # 6

Yeah? Tell me why, and what it'll help. I mean, I have heard of the MS, but I freely admit that I'm not too familiar with it. I know the shop who does my LS1 has used a MS on an LT1 engine, but fill me in on how a lone MSnS will help. I wanna learn, and get all I can safely get from my car.

**************************************
1995 Eclipse GS - bone stock
2000 Camaro SS - heads/cam/bottle

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bullettdsm	Apr-28-07 11:16 PM
Donating 2GNT member 2676 posts,

#104061, "RE: Needs low-end torque"
In response to Reply # 7
Apr-28-07 11:17 PM by bullettdsm

Originally posted by N4cer
Yeah? Tell me why, and what it'll help. I mean, I have heard of the MS, but I freely admit that I'm not too familiar with it. I know the shop who does my LS1 has used a MS on an LT1 engine, but fill me in on how a lone MSnS will help. I wanna learn, and get all I can safely get from my car.

The stock ECU sucks balls. MSnS gives you adjustability for spark and fuel. THIS will unlock the most power in one step. Being able to lean her out and bring up timing will definitely add some pop for you. How much on a stock set-up is unknown. But with the MSnS, you are putting down a pretty important building block to any future mods, as well.

To give you an idea of how it can help, I gained .4 in the quarter solely on my MSnS install!

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N4cer	Apr-29-07 05:08 PM
Member since Aug 27th 2006 80 posts,

#104068, "RE: Needs low-end torque"
In response to Reply # 8

I see that. But with this being my daily driver, I'm not sure I have the time for all the wiring involved and the possible mistakes along the way with that wiring. I can't find a direct plug-in kit for it anywhere. Only one that plugs into one side and you have to splice into the car side, I think. I'm sure the tuning could be done relatively easily, by looking at the software.

**************************************
1995 Eclipse GS - bone stock
2000 Camaro SS - heads/cam/bottle

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goalie40	Apr-30-07 09:07 AM
Member since Sep 12th 2005 431 posts,

#104081, "RE: Needs low-end torque"
In response to Reply # 9

well you are talking adding a turbo so i cant see how msns will be a lot of work. less work for sure, compared to adding a turbo and it will give you that punch you are looking for.

We will build you bigger and stronger

Wake up and drive my ass... More like wake up and fix it.

If the opposite of Pro is Con
then the opposite of Progress is Congress

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RallyEclipse98	Apr-30-07 12:37 PM
Member since Feb 22nd 2007 165 posts,

#104087, "RE: Needs low-end torque"
In response to Reply # 10

Originally posted by goalie40
well you are talking adding a turbo so i cant see how msns will be a lot of work. less work for sure, compared to adding a turbo and it will give you that punch you are looking for.

That sounds awesome!!!! You don't have to be a '97 to run MSnS do you? I don't think so but just to be sure

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goalie40	Apr-30-07 12:57 PM
Member since Sep 12th 2005 431 posts,

#104088, "RE: Needs low-end torque"
In response to Reply # 11
Apr-30-07 01:01 PM by goalie40

nope you are all good there is a guy here that is N/A with msns do a search ahh never mind a present here ya go.

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=89078&mode=full

We will build you bigger and stronger

Wake up and drive my ass... More like wake up and fix it.

If the opposite of Pro is Con
then the opposite of Progress is Congress

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RallyEclipse98	Apr-30-07 01:08 PM
Member since Feb 22nd 2007 165 posts,

#104089, "RE: Needs low-end torque"
In response to Reply # 12

Originally posted by goalie40
nope you are all good there is a guy here that is N/A with msns do a search ahh never mind a present here ya go. http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=89078&mode=full

Yeah I did search and read that. Just making sure. Thanks!

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