2GNT.com Forums - Viewing message - RE: Hydrogen generators?

Interested In Advertising with 2GNT?

Printer-friendly copy

Email this topic to a friend

3 Users in Chat

Top

2GNT Technical

Performance/Engine

topic #108913

View in linear mode

Subject: "RE: Hydrogen generators?"

Previous topic | Next topic

VelocitaPaola	Sep-27-08 02:07 PM
Member since Jun 13th 2005 626 posts,

#110127, "RE: Hydrogen generators?"
In response to In response to 27
Sep-27-08 02:40 PM by VelocitaPaola

Originally posted by KnightHawk434thStrapping a tank of H2 in your trunk is dumb unless HIGHLY reinforced. You get rear ended and BOOM there goes you, your car and anything within a certain radius.

It was just an example to point out the specious logic being used here...

Originally posted by KnightHawk434th3) By law of physics energy is consistent. Meaning energy cannot be created, nor destroyed...just transferred, which is what my buddy's system is doing. Transferring the energy from the electrolysis system to his fuel/intake system. That may have been a misconception on previous posts. People automatically assumed it was creating energy, which in itself IS physically impossible. But by transferring the energy makes it possible.

Yes, we're on the same page here, but you need to consider the whole system. Mechanical energy from the engine is converted to electrical energy by the alternator. The electrical energy is then converted to chemical energy via electrolysis. The chemical energy then, coming full circle, is converted back into mechanical energy by turning the crank through combustion in the cylinder.

Of course, that description is simplified because we have not accounted for friction in the engine or friction in the bearings of the alternator, electrical resistance in the wiring, efficiency of the electrode material, impurities in the electrolyte, stray losses, etc. If all of those opposing forces were non-existent, the system would be self-sustaining. In reality, however, they degrade the efficiency of the process and cost us energy: hence the net loss.

Here's one last thing to ponder... since hydrogen is a compressible fluid and water is not, comparing volumes means nothing. The volume of a certain amount of hydrogen changes with pressure and temperature. Here's a little chemistry for you to mull over.


molar mass H2O = 18.0153 g / mol
18.0153 g / mol x (1 mL / 1 g) = 18.0153 mL / mol
18.0153 mL / mol x (L / 1000 mL) =  0.0180153 L / mol
0.0180153 L / mol x (gal / 3.785 L) = 0.00476 gal / mol
1 / (0.00476 gal / mol) ~ 210 moles per gallon


210 mol H2O = 420 mol H :210 mol O


PV = nRT -> V = (nRT)/P

n = 420 mol H
T = 20*C (RTP)
P = 1atm (RTP)
R = 0.08205746 L*atm*K^−1*mol^−1 (Ideal gas constant)

V = ((420 mol H)x(20*C)x(1atm)x(0.08205746))
V = 689.283 L
689.283 L x (gal / 3.785 L) = 182.109 gallons H

Essentially, one gallon of water can create 182.109 gallons of elemental hydrogen at room temperature and pressure (1atm and 20*C or roughly 70*F). At lower temperatures this figure is less and vice versa. Feel free to plug in your own temperature and pressure variables...

-----------------------------------------

-Paul

Service Manuals and Guides

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote