Ran Friday with the local club at LVD:

14.597@93.47!

I'm guessing that has got to be the fastest. Gotta be happy with that! Now that I am there, I may take a break for a while with the 420a. Gotta work on the AWD. Possibly I'll come down to the SO. I dunno. I know I can cut a light and run with the guys running low 14's. Nice to be able to beat both the FWD and AWD turbo stockers!

Just thought I would share :cheers

MB

Nice #'s

What's your setup?

Your car is prolly faster then mine... my snail is weighing my car down though! :p

congrats, Im 99.99% sure thats the fastest NA time ;last fastest time I can think of was a ummm.... 14.6XX on the boards by billy something or other

Originally posted by Aggression
Nice #'s What's your setup?

hehe, look at the post right after yours...
http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=11&topic_id=5140&mode=full

Fuckin A that's a fast NA...

Originally posted by DarkOne
Fuckin A that's a fast NA...

haulin' ass for sure

nice job man!

Thanks guys,

I don't think I'm going to the SO. The new rule change allowing FMIC's kind of cuts me out of the loop. I can cut a light and beat a low 14 runner but there is no way I am going to beat an 11 or 12. Especially without being able to use drag slicks. Shit, timing is everything in life. :shrug

Aggression; mod post;

Inside:
JE 10.5
Crower 2
Stainless valves
.020 off head
5 angle valve job
Personal port and polish (intake and exhaust)
MLS Head gasket
Of course, full rebuild on bearing etc. (stock)
Full float wrist pins

Outside:
AF/X pulley
AF/X ECU
S-afc
Jeep 60 mm TB
Personal port and polish intake
1 adj. cam gear on intake side
E-bay Ram air intake
Catch can
E-bay 4-1 header (cleaned up with grinder)
"hi-flow cat"
2.5 exhaust
No power steering

Suspension;
tiens and adj KYB's (1.8 drop) in front
stock springs adj KYB in back

Still gotta get back to the dyno to fine adjust safc. Should be just a little more HP. I am curious how much that will add. I'm guessing 5 hp at best.

MB

That's awesome, man. Definitely impressive. Props.

Damn, great work Mark. Definetly impressive. It's too bad we won't see you at the SO.

Dammit, this all makes me wish I hadn't sold all the shit I had.

Good runs, though, it's very impressive.

Mark is the man. Todd is still the man, too. :P

Me? I'm just some choad who can't keep it together long enough to dyno it or get to the track. Ah well. Makes a nice daily driver as long as I don't need the AC. :P

Originally posted by bullettdsm
Ran Friday with the local club at LVD: 14.597@93.47! I'm guessing that has got to be the fastest. Gotta be happy with that! Now that I am there, I may take a break for a while with the 420a. Gotta work on the AWD. Possibly I'll come down to the SO. I dunno. I know I can cut a light and run with the guys running low 14's. Nice to be able to beat both the FWD and AWD turbo stockers! Just thought I would share :cheers MB

Can i ask you a quick ? any Weight reduction mods. Dont take this the wrong way i'm looking to give a run for the money pending the new job. Like i said dont take that that wrong way i actully would like to work with sombody that expierence pushing the 420a. Instead of competing we could co operate and gain more on the turbo guys. Another ? the 5 valve job did you see a great improvement on that one extra Exhaust or intake.

No, I'm not taking it the wrong way. The more the merrier :thumbsup . I'd love more people to get into the NA mode. Please have at it. I'm really not in competition, I'm more in curiousity. Just want to see how far these can go.

The only weight reduction was the seats and the spare tire. I got a lot more that I can do, I'm just taking this a step at a time. As for the 5 vs 3 angle, I really can't say. I just felt that since my intended red line was 8500 (which is now 7800 because of a malfunction in the ECU) I wanted to get as smooth a flow as I could.

I've got no problem answering any questions. You can feel free to PM me or we can talk about it on the thread. There are a few others that are running down this same road. Good die-hards with lots of info. Keep in mind a couple of things; It is not just how much power you are putting out; it is what you are doing with your power. I am beating guys who have more power and less weight then me.

And more importantly, you will HAVE to come up with some way to adjust/change you stock timing and fuel A/F. I was lucky enough to have a 97 which allowed me to use the AF/X ECU. Otherwise, it seems that the choice of interest is the MSnS.

Good luck,

MB

I thought for sure that run was made with your redline at 8000+. I didnn't figure on you still having that ecu malfunction. Has Gary taken care of that yet?

I'm curious/excited to see what can be done with you revving 8K+...

I've got my stock ECU ready to go in (thanks to R34Eclipse) but I can't take it out now do to the down time. I'm going to approach Gary at the end of the season when I can put that slow ass stock ECU in and send my AFX ECU.

It's kind of funny on my 1 to 2 shift. I can often hear one little pop as the limiter comes in because I am shifting that close to the line. In all honesty, with my set-up, I would only use the 8500 on the 1 to 2 shift. It climbs real quick at that and allows me to fall back into power range. It seems that I want to hit the 2 to 3 shift at right around 7800. Just short of wheelspin but it falls back into power range.

The higher red line not being there is just one more thing that makes me think I can lower the time.

MB

Hey, what was your upgrade path?? I currently have the full exhaust, and intake, and am working to improve the head; also I am looking to advance my timing, any advice? My car pulls really hard and was dynoed at 147 stock with my cat back, anyway, congrats on that run, I was waiting for someone to give turbo a run for their money! And hey how much did it cost you to get to where you’re at now??

Originally posted by talon749
Hey, what was your upgrade path?? I currently have the full exhaust, and intake, and am working to improve the head; also I am looking to advance my timing, any advice? My car pulls really hard and was dynoed at 147 stock with my cat back, anyway, congrats on that run, I was waiting for someone to give turbo a run for their money! And hey how much did it cost you to get to where you’re at now??

Check out his mod list at the top of this thread. And check out his other threads, he explains it.

Originally posted by bullettdsm
In all honesty, with my set-up, I would only use the 8500 on the 1 to 2 shift. It climbs real quick at that and allows me to fall back into power range. It seems that I want to hit the 2 to 3 shift at right around 7800. Just short of wheelspin but it falls back into power range. The higher red line not being there is just one more thing that makes me think I can lower the time. MB

Makes sense using the redline on 1-2 shift. Maybe when you get that ecu straightened out, you can bump the 2-3 up to 8K even...if it don't spin, to eek out a little more time.

Keep us posted Mark, I am sitting here VERY intrigued. I would like to see 14.3s. I think that is possible. Then who knows, instead of the goal being to crack 14s, maybe it will be 13s?

Originally posted by bullettdsm
No, I'm not taking it the wrong way. The more the merrier :thumbsup . I'd love more people to get into the NA mode. Please have at it. I'm really not in competition, I'm more in curiousity. Just want to see how far these can go. The only weight reduction was the seats and the spare tire. I got a lot more that I can do, I'm just taking this a step at a time. As for the 5 vs 3 angle, I really can't say. I just felt that since my intended red line was 8500 (which is now 7800 because of a malfunction in the ECU) I wanted to get as smooth a flow as I could. I've got no problem answering any questions. You can feel free to PM me or we can talk about it on the thread. There are a few others that are running down this same road. Good die-hards with lots of info. Keep in mind a couple of things; It is not just how much power you are putting out; it is what you are doing with your power. I am beating guys who have more power and less weight then me. And more importantly, you will HAVE to come up with some way to adjust/change you stock timing and fuel A/F. I was lucky enough to have a 97 which allowed me to use the AF/X ECU. Otherwise, it seems that the choice of interest is the MSnS. Good luck, MB

Thanks mine i hve a 97 to so i've already looked at the AF/X ECU i'm goign this week to pick up a carbon Fiber hood and put my header on when it gets here. I think when we goto the track this friday i'm goign to gut the interior completey out *sans dash* but idk. The whole thing is kinda like a project car for our little business and my buddy currently holds the 2200 Cavalier NA record. So he has alot of expiernce in the area. Another ? have you used slicks yet if so how much of a emprovement.

Originally posted by Dreamspawn
i'm goign to gut the interior completey out *sans dash* but idk.

Consenus is that, for every 100lbs you remove from the car, you can shave a tenth off your E.T.. This *only* applies to experienced drivers who are consistent with their times. Squid Skins, up in Canada, offers CF and fiberglass 2Gb body components for the Talon which, according to the owner (with whom I have discussed this a couple times), shave about 600lbs off the car. They aren't cheap, but if Mark levels off at 14.5s, consistently, reducing the weight of the car by 600lbs could, theoretically at least, put him into high 13s all motor. I would shit my pants.

Originally posted by Dreamspawn
Thanks mine i hve a 97 to so i've already looked at the AF/X ECU

If you are serious about making some record-breaking NA times, I'm going to go ahead and say you need to get MSnS. The AFX/R is great. I had it, I loved it, and I miss having it installed on my car. The stock ECU is a stupid turd concerned only with economy and reliability. The AFX/R is a nice step up which requires no thinking whatsoever, but for the money, the MSnS gives you much, much more tunability for your mods and will allow you to fully make use of them.

Dreamspawn,

Last time on the track was the first time with slicks. So obviously they helped. Still haven't got the tire pressure dialed in. I really needed them for the 1 to 2 shift and the 2 to 3 shift. Got rid of the wheel spin. Great that you got the 97. AF/X is a big difference over the stock ECU. You will need to change the timing etc from stock either with AF/X or the MSnS.

Talon749; I'm not busting on you or anything. Believe me, stranger things have happened, but 147 to the wheels with just an intake and a header sounds very unusual. Our cars generally run about 110whp stock. To gain 37 from just those two add-ons makes me want to question your dyno guy's accuracy. Again, just very unusual.

That being said; You can check my previous mod list for the extent of my mods. I have been telling people that for less than 3k you can run right around 15 and have a rebuilt engine. I sat down and did a litle math;

UDP 150
ECU 300
10.5 JE's 500
Machine Work 350
Bearings 60
Gaskets(w/HG)150
Valves 140
Jeep TB 50
Ram Air 50
Header 100
Clutch 300
Cams 300 (?)

Total: 2450

Some of the parts were good used and all of the labor was mine. This does not include things like a timing "kit" (maybe around 160), or oil pump (another 150?) or suspension mods needed. The reason for that is is because many do already have those things so I don't want to skew the numbers. The list is necessary things.
I did spend another 400 on my suspension. This is needed to get the power to the ground. But you will need that regardless of what you build, be it NA or otherwise. I also spent 40 on a solid front roll stop engine mount and another 50 for the other motor mounts.

In addition to this money I probably spent around another $1000 for "R+D". I did buy/make some things just to check them out and see if they would fit in with what I was doing. I junked a brand new header, I've got both a modular and non modular clutch, I made three TB's, I've got a partial CAI brand new in my junk box, I've got a head with grinding holes into the water jackets (heh, heh), I've got three different intakes. Things like that. You've got to be able to accept that you WILL waste some money and time (I know that Brian can attest to that :thumbsup ).

Good luck to you guys and keep us posted.
Gotta run,
MB

whoa noo noo not 147 whp stock that would be amazing! 147 crank, I think it was around 119 to the wheels.

LOL! Yeah, gotcha now talon749. That makes sense :thumbsup .

Brian,
You're looking at exactly what I was thinking about when I thought I could drop into the 13's. The question is, do I want to go that route? Don't know yet. The NA is, by far, my favorite car among the DSM's. I'm not so sure that I want to do all that. I've already got a "race car" in the AWD.

Gotta see where the trip takes it.

MB

Originally posted by bullettdsm
Brian, You're looking at exactly what I was thinking about when I thought I could drop into the 13's. The question is, do I want to go that route? Don't know yet. The NA is, by far, my favorite car among the DSM's. I'm not so sure that I want to do all that. I've already got a "race car" in the AWD. Gotta see where the trip takes it. MB

Heh. You could look at it this way... you're the fastest all motor DSM in the country right now. Dip into the thirteens and you will be something of a god in this community. Especially if you continue to share your secrets. The more 2GNTs we can get into the fourteens and lower, the better this platform looks to everyone. :thumbsup

Fastest all motor DSM and the mods list isn't even that long, kudos!

Thanks BlackMagic, I appreciate the support.

LOL! Yeah, Brian, some god I would make. I'm still too much of a Nancy-Boy to attempt the MSnS x( (Don't agree too quick).

As for the secrets; honestly, like you say, the more that others know about what it takes, the better for the community (that reads a little corny, but true). Sharing the "secrets" only helps to generate interest for those ITB's I might do :P .

MB

Thanks bullettdsm, you just made up my mind about what I want to do with my car. I was under the impression that if you wanted to break into the 14's with NA, you would have to spend twice the amount of money it would cost for a turbo kit. I have a 97 avenger, so I wanted the afx ecu in the worst way, but would be worthless if I went turbo. Thanks for the info, it will definately come in handy.

Originally posted by Vengance97
Thanks bullettdsm, you just made up my mind about what I want to do with my car. I was under the impression that if you wanted to break into the 14's with NA, you would have to spend twice the amount of money it would cost for a turbo kit. I have a 97 avenger, so I wanted the afx ecu in the worst way, but would be worthless if I went turbo. Thanks for the info, it will definately come in handy.

Well, it can easily get to that point. Mark saved a bunch of money by switching to Geico and he also did a lot of the work himself. To give you another opinion (and not to discount what Mark's said and you're thinking, because I really want to see more people take this route), here's my list:

Bottom end: $2500
Head + cams: $2100
Bolt-ons: $300
Tuning: $700
Total: $5600

Given you can put a turbo system together for under $2000 with GOOD parts, you can see where things got a bit pricey for me. If I were to do it again, I would probably leave the bottom end alone, aside from rings, bearings, and pumps, and that would save something like $1500 imo. Sticking with stock sized valves and doing the portwork yourself could save a LOT of money on the head, but you're taking a risk if you don't know what you're doing and why.

So, by all means, go all motor. We'd love to see it done. I think it's safe to say that an all motor 2GNT will be in the thirteens before we know it.

Originally posted by DR1665
I think it's safe to say that an all motor 2GNT will be in the thirteens before we know it.

Mhmm, the thought of that.

I cannot fucking wait.

Originally posted by cc8balla

Originally posted by DR1665 I think it's safe to say that an all motor 2GNT will be in the thirteens before we know it.

Mhmm, the thought of that. I cannot fucking wait.

I know, right? Who woulda thought the day would come when we could honestly expect it?

Exactly. It seriously seems like yesterday when we were watching the likes of you, Mark, and the other NA DSM gods push for 14s.

Exciting times.

Sorry I am late to reply Mark (this is the first I saw this, even though you clearly posted it over on NEDSM) but great job! I never would have thought a non turbo 420A could have gone this fast. And you can clearly drive seeing as you have a 60' better than many AWD's running the same time, and your MPH is relatively low for that time. So ya, keep up the good work! (Although you will have a hard time catching me now!)

LOL! Ha ha! Hey Marshall, Nice times. Dropping like a rock. 13.4 now with the GSX, huh? Beauty. Maybe by the end of the season you'll break into the 12's? Yeah, I dunno about catching you now!

Tell me, (BTW I appreciate the check-in comments) how is NED's launching pad? I have heard that it beats the crap out of LVD's. Think it might be worth it to head up there next time? I'm waiting for the heat to break a little before I run again.

MB