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Subject: "Car won't start after turbo install"

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Emsand1	Jan-16-06 09:18 AM
Member since Mar 03rd 2005 55 posts,

#92737, "Car won't start after turbo install"

Completed most of the turbo install and started the car to make sure everything was ok. let car run for approximately 15 minutes and it sounded good.

I shut the car off to finish running the gauges and BOV vacuum line. Started car up again and it sounded good. Watch the Fuel ratio continually climb towards Lean and shut the car off. I disconnected the fuel gauge at the ECU thinking that teeing into the O2 wire at the ECU may be throwing the car off. Now the car will not start.

My BOV, FMU, and wastegate are teed off at the manifold.

Why would the car run perfect for 15 minutes and then after a few more upgrades, not run at all?

Also, I'm new to turbo. When the car was running, I did not hear the turbo doing anything. I assumed it was because I was at idle.

Sounds fuel related but I'm not sure.

Please help

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Replies to this topic

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, BumpinTalon, Jan-16-06 09:23 AM, #1

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, Emsand1, Jan-16-06 09:43 AM, #2

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, Blizare, Jan-16-06 09:44 AM, #3

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, Emsand1, Jan-16-06 09:46 AM, #4

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, djtrickee, Jan-16-06 09:48 AM, #5

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, baxsom, Jan-16-06 11:52 AM, #6

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, Emsand1, Jan-16-06 12:02 PM, #7

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, baxsom, Jan-16-06 01:33 PM, #8

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, Emsand1, Jan-16-06 02:04 PM, #9

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, baxsom, Jan-16-06 02:14 PM, #10

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, Emsand1, Jan-16-06 02:36 PM, #11

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, DarkEclips96, Jan-16-06 03:29 PM, #12

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, EclipseTenzoR, Jan-16-06 05:00 PM, #13

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, Emsand1, Jan-17-06 02:01 AM, #14

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, ForceFed420a, Jan-17-06 02:12 AM, #15

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, donnyb373, Jan-17-06 02:28 AM, #16

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, Emsand1, Jan-17-06 10:24 AM, #17

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, rs_smoked_you, Jan-17-06 06:07 PM, #18

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, ForceFed420a, Jan-18-06 02:29 AM, #19

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, Emsand1, Jan-18-06 04:28 AM, #20

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, ForceFed420a, Jan-18-06 05:30 AM, #21

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, Emsand1, Jan-19-06 01:21 AM, #22

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, ForceFed420a, Jan-19-06 01:42 AM, #23

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, Emsand1, Jan-19-06 06:06 AM, #24

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, Blizare, Jan-19-06 06:15 AM, #25

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, Emsand1, Jan-19-06 03:48 PM, #26

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, rs_smoked_you, Jan-19-06 07:27 PM, #27

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, BigRand, Jan-30-06 01:48 AM, #28

RE: Car won't start after turbo install, ForceFed420a, Jan-30-06 03:04 AM, #29

BumpinTalon	Jan-16-06 09:23 AM
Member since Mar 23rd 2004 2381 posts,

#92738, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 0
Jan-16-06 09:24 AM by BumpinTalon

Unless that fuel gauge was a wideband, it is going to climb to lean no matter what... they cycle from lean to what your fuel ratio actually is. On a cold start, it cycles very slowly so it may have lead you to believe the car was leaning out (which at idle isn't any big deal anyway).

Try putting it back to the way it was when it was running and see if that fixes it. Your turbo won't make any noise at all at idle. The only way to make sure it is actually spinning is to take the air filter off and look at the blades yourself.

edit: Wait, hold on a second, you completely disconnected your O2 sensor from the ECU? Well no shit its not running! Hook it back up, the ECU NEEDS that signal.

1995 Eagle Talon ESi

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Emsand1	Jan-16-06 09:43 AM
Member since Mar 03rd 2005 55 posts,

#92740, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 1

Originally posted by BumpinTalon
Unless that fuel gauge was a wideband, it is going to climb to lean no matter what... they cycle from lean to what your fuel ratio actually is. On a cold start, it cycles very slowly so it may have lead you to believe the car was leaning out (which at idle isn't any big deal anyway). Try putting it back to the way it was when it was running and see if that fixes it. Your turbo won't make any noise at all at idle. The only way to make sure it is actually spinning is to take the air filter off and look at the blades yourself. edit: Wait, hold on a second, you completely disconnected your O2 sensor from the ECU? Well no shit its not running! Hook it back up, the ECU NEEDS that signal.

No..I didn't unhook the O2 from the ECU, I unhooked the gauge from the O2. I reversed the steps I took before the problem but that did not help.It sounds like the car is losing fuel but I don't know why.

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Blizare	Jan-16-06 09:44 AM
Donating 2GNT member 7595 posts,

#92741, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 1
Jan-16-06 09:44 AM by Blizare

Originally posted by BumpinTalon
edit: Wait, hold on a second, you completely disconnected your O2 sensor from the ECU? Well no shit its not running! Hook it back up, the ECU NEEDS that signal.

HOLY EDIT Batman!!

The air/fuel guage you have tells you nothing really.

Do you have a FP gauge hooked up?? What is idle FP? What are you using for a rising rate fuel pressure regulator?

I eat emo kids for breakfast

1995 Eagle Talon (SOLD)
72' SuperBeetle
72' Standard Beetle
56' Deluxe Beetle

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Emsand1	Jan-16-06 09:46 AM
Member since Mar 03rd 2005 55 posts,

#92742, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 3

I didn't explain myself well. The O2 sensor was never unhooked. I used a wire tap to connect the O2 and fuel gauge. I thought the gauge may be creating power loss at the ECU so I took the tap off.

96 Klipse
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djtrickee	Jan-16-06 09:48 AM
Donating 2GNT member 5924 posts,

#92743, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 3

Originally posted by Blizare

Originally posted by BumpinTalon edit: Wait, hold on a second, you completely disconnected your O2 sensor from the ECU? Well no shit its not running! Hook it back up, the ECU NEEDS that signal.

HOLY EDIT Batman!!

no shit! some people need to learn to read mo'betta... right blizzy?

Originally posted by Blizare
The air/fuel guage you have tells you nothing really. Do you have a FP gauge hooked up?? What is idle FP? What are you using for a rising rate fuel pressure regulator?

Need more info on the setup... what fuel setup? what turbo kit, if any? whats your idle FP at? did you reset the ECU/ unhook the battery when you were installing the gauges? There are so many variables/questions.

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baxsom	Jan-16-06 11:52 AM
Member since Nov 27th 2004 758 posts,

#92746, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 5

is the fuel pump even kicking on?
i had that problem once
the wire to the fuel pump was pulled loose doing some work and it cranked because there was fuel still in the line but as soon as it emptied
headache, fustration, and a lot of cursing until i realized that the customary brrrrrrrrrp that i hear when i turn the key on wasnt there

1996 eclipse GS-T
1968 Ford Mustang
2004 Suzuki GSXR600
2006 Honda CBR1000RR
Decisions Decisions

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Emsand1	Jan-16-06 12:02 PM
Member since Mar 03rd 2005 55 posts,

#92748, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 6
Jan-16-06 12:03 PM by Emsand1

I don't have the fuel pressure gauge hooked up yet since I have not figured out what size the fule rail service port is.

When I first installed the walboro pump...it was seriously loud. Before I got to the point where the car wouldn't run at all, I thought the pump seemed quieter. I could be wrong. The pump still engages so it's working but I don't know how well.

I went from the side of my Vortech FMU to the FPR and from the bottom to the tank return. If my vacuum was not working properly, what kinds of symptons would I see.

Keep in mind, the idle was perfect and the fuel gauge read perfectly stoick. As the idle started lowering, the fuel ratio dropped to lean quickly and the car died.

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baxsom	Jan-16-06 01:33 PM
Member since Nov 27th 2004 758 posts,

#92751, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 7
Jan-16-06 01:34 PM by baxsom

wait
please clarify
you said that you were not sure what size the test port it
(4an by the way)

what are you using for a return line

the standard setup
fuel line to fuel rail
the schraeder valve is removed from the test port and then a line is run from that to the fpr/fmu/sfmu whatever

then that to the return to the tank

where did you tap the fuel rail for the return?

the easiest thing to do for a fuel pressure gauge is where the fuel line hooks into the fpr use a T fitting and screw the fuel pressure gauge and the fuel line from the fuel rail into the T then put the T into the FPR

1996 eclipse GS-T
1968 Ford Mustang
2004 Suzuki GSXR600
2006 Honda CBR1000RR
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Emsand1	Jan-16-06 02:04 PM
Member since Mar 03rd 2005 55 posts,

#92752, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 8

Originally posted by baxsom
wait please clarify you said that you were not sure what size the test port it (4an by the way) what are you using for a return line the standard setup fuel line to fuel rail the schraeder valve is removed from the test port and then a line is run from that to the fpr/fmu/sfmu whatever then that to the return to the tank where did you tap the fuel rail for the return? the easiest thing to do for a fuel pressure gauge is where the fuel line hooks into the fpr use a T fitting and screw the fuel pressure gauge and the fuel line from the fuel rail into the T then put the T into the FPR

I didn't run a return line from the rail. I mounted my FMU in the rear and ran the side of my vortech to the stock FPR and the bottom back to the tank.

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baxsom	Jan-16-06 02:14 PM
Member since Nov 27th 2004 758 posts,

#92753, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 9

ok i will be the first to admit i am no expert but everything that i have read has said that you cannot use the stock fpr and that the loop i explained is the way you have to go. I am using the hahn kit that came with the cartech rising rate so the stock fpr got taken out.

unless you have another source that says you can do it your way i would change it

every fuel setup article that you find will say to go
tank to rail to fuel management back to tank

im out of my league on this one anyone else with experience with his type of setup wanna help out?

1996 eclipse GS-T
1968 Ford Mustang
2004 Suzuki GSXR600
2006 Honda CBR1000RR
Decisions Decisions

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Emsand1	Jan-16-06 02:36 PM
Member since Mar 03rd 2005 55 posts,

#92754, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 10

Originally posted by baxsom
ok i will be the first to admit i am no expert but everything that i have read has said that you cannot use the stock fpr and that the loop i explained is the way you have to go. I am using the hahn kit that came with the cartech rising rate so the stock fpr got taken out. unless you have another source that says you can do it your way i would change it every fuel setup article that you find will say to go tank to rail to fuel management back to tank im out of my league on this one anyone else with experience with his type of setup wanna help out?

I believe it's a difference between FMU and SFMU. SFMU set up is exactly as you stated. On a simple FMU, you have to use the stock FPR with it. Thanks for the info on the fule rail fitting. It was driving me nuts. I'll try and set up the pressure gauge tommorrow to narrow down the search.

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DarkEclips96	Jan-16-06 03:29 PM
Member since May 23rd 2005 399 posts,

#92756, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 11
Jan-16-06 03:30 PM by DarkEclips96

Correct, leave stock FPR with the FMU

2002 WRX
Eclipse RS-T..sold

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EclipseTenzoR	Jan-16-06 05:00 PM
Member since Nov 09th 2003 2386 posts,

#92757, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 12

Check Fuses? Does the car even go on accessory? Can you hear the pump prime? I would review basics first just to make sure.

98' Eclipse GS- Hahn Stage 2- SOLD
02' Honda S2000- SOLD
04' Acura TL- Current Whip

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Emsand1	Jan-17-06 02:01 AM
Member since Mar 03rd 2005 55 posts,

#92766, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 13

Originally posted by EclipseTenzoR
Check Fuses? Does the car even go on accessory? Can you hear the pump prime? I would review basics first just to make sure.

The fuel pump does prime, the fuses appear to be good. The car turns over but will not engage. I should have the pressure gauge hooked up this evening to verify the fuel pressure.

I have a code 11. The timing is right on and I replaced the crankshaft and camshaft position sensor and the inginition coil two weeks ago due to an intermittent power loss problem. The ECU was reset after the installation. The mechanic still had a problem with the intermittent loss and spent three days on what he said was a lose wire connection at the ECU.

The way in which the car stopped running was similar to the original problem only now the car will turn over but not engage at all.

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ForceFed420a	Jan-17-06 02:12 AM
Member since Oct 18th 2004 620 posts,

#92767, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 14

I would verify all the necessities to run.

Spark/Fuel/Compression (I'm assuming your timing is fine, as it sounds like you did nothing to disturb that)

Are you sure that the problem lies with the fuel? Could it be lack of or weak spark? (ASD relay/CKP/CMP/Coil/Wires/Plugs). Did you check your plugs? Are they fouled?

I would pull the plugs and check if you have spark and if they're fouled. You said it ran for 15 minutes right?

Also, on a random aside, it could be a clogged cat, but that's unlikely.

I guess my point is, narrow the search down to one of the three components, and then subdivide.

It sounds like most of the thread is focused on a lack of fuel, when we're not really all that sure it's the cause of the problem.

Brian

Red 97 Eclipse GS (420a) MTX
Custom Garrett T3 Turbo system
Megasquirt w/52 lb/hr injectors & a Walbro 255
Kicker/Alpine Audio (3 amps, 2 subs)
90 Cav 2.2 TBI auto (winter) <- yeah, it's fast

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donnyb373	Jan-17-06 02:28 AM
Member since Apr 07th 2004 1122 posts,

#92768, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 15

this also sounds liek your ecu is taking a crap on you, mine did this until i replaced the ecu

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Emsand1	Jan-17-06 10:24 AM
Member since Mar 03rd 2005 55 posts,

#92775, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 16

OK...I hooked up the fuel pressure gauge to the fuel rail and got no pressure while turning it over. I left the SS line on the fuel rail and took the pressure gauge off and cranked it to see if any fuel was moving to the line. Nothing. If the car will not actually run, would I have fuel spitting out of the SS line? I removed the schrader so nothing is blocking it.

I still hear the fuel pump engaging so I'm pretty sure it's not the pump.

Could my Vortech FMU becausing this?

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rs_smoked_you	Jan-17-06 06:07 PM
Member since Nov 14th 2005 201 posts,

#92791, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 17

check all your fuel lines, maybe you pinched one installing some of ur new stuff.

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ForceFed420a	Jan-18-06 02:29 AM
Member since Oct 18th 2004 620 posts,

#92795, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 17

Originally posted by Emsand1
OK...I hooked up the fuel pressure gauge to the fuel rail and got no pressure while turning it over. I left the SS line on the fuel rail and took the pressure gauge off and cranked it to see if any fuel was moving to the line. Nothing. If the car will not actually run, would I have fuel spitting out of the SS line? I removed the schrader so nothing is blocking it. I still hear the fuel pump engaging so I'm pretty sure it's not the pump. Could my Vortech FMU becausing this?

Hehe, well that'll do it! I would pull the "supply" line from the tank off. Try to prime. If not, your fuel pump could be at fault (assuming no lines kinked).

Pop your fuel pump out and check the sock. It's possible that it's clogged up.

Also, could be the fuel filter. I've had filters so clogged that the car wouldn't run.

If the engine's getting no fuel, it's either fuel pump, fuel pump sock, fuel filter, or fuel pump relay.

Brian

Red 97 Eclipse GS (420a) MTX
Custom Garrett T3 Turbo system
Megasquirt w/52 lb/hr injectors & a Walbro 255
Kicker/Alpine Audio (3 amps, 2 subs)
90 Cav 2.2 TBI auto (winter) <- yeah, it's fast

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Emsand1	Jan-18-06 04:28 AM
Member since Mar 03rd 2005 55 posts,

#92797, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 19

Originally posted by ForceFed420a

Originally posted by Emsand1 OK...I hooked up the fuel pressure gauge to the fuel rail and got no pressure while turning it over. I left the SS line on the fuel rail and took the pressure gauge off and cranked it to see if any fuel was moving to the line. Nothing. If the car will not actually run, would I have fuel spitting out of the SS line? I removed the schrader so nothing is blocking it. I still hear the fuel pump engaging so I'm pretty sure it's not the pump. Could my Vortech FMU becausing this?

Hehe, well that'll do it! I would pull the "supply" line from the tank off. Try to prime. If not, your fuel pump could be at fault (assuming no lines kinked). Pop your fuel pump out and check the sock. It's possible that it's clogged up. Also, could be the fuel filter. I've had filters so clogged that the car wouldn't run. If the engine's getting no fuel, it's either fuel pump, fuel pump sock, fuel filter, or fuel pump relay. Brian

Great ideas Brian. Thanks. Pulling the pump would make sense no emoji

96 Klipse
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Rhedora rear
18"BSAs on 40s
Kenwood Player
Fosgate & Alpine
Viper w/ remote start
Tein drop
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ForceFed420a	Jan-18-06 05:30 AM
Member since Oct 18th 2004 620 posts,

#92801, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 20

Hope it helps emoji Let us know what you find.

Brian

Red 97 Eclipse GS (420a) MTX
Custom Garrett T3 Turbo system
Megasquirt w/52 lb/hr injectors & a Walbro 255
Kicker/Alpine Audio (3 amps, 2 subs)
90 Cav 2.2 TBI auto (winter) <- yeah, it's fast

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Emsand1	Jan-19-06 01:21 AM
Member since Mar 03rd 2005 55 posts,

#92827, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 21

Problem resolved. It was a faulty fuel pump. I put the old pump back in and the car runs fine.

96 Klipse
Stillen front
Rhedora rear
18"BSAs on 40s
Kenwood Player
Fosgate & Alpine
Viper w/ remote start
Tein drop
Star Stage II

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ForceFed420a	Jan-19-06 01:42 AM
Member since Oct 18th 2004 620 posts,

#92828, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 22

Good to hear bro

Brian

Red 97 Eclipse GS (420a) MTX
Custom Garrett T3 Turbo system
Megasquirt w/52 lb/hr injectors & a Walbro 255
Kicker/Alpine Audio (3 amps, 2 subs)
90 Cav 2.2 TBI auto (winter) <- yeah, it's fast

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Emsand1	Jan-19-06 06:06 AM
Member since Mar 03rd 2005 55 posts,

#92835, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 23

Originally posted by ForceFed420a
Good to hear bro

Brian

Thanks for the tips Brian. I didn't actually think it would be the pump so I wasn't going to take it out.

96 Klipse
Stillen front
Rhedora rear
18"BSAs on 40s
Kenwood Player
Fosgate & Alpine
Viper w/ remote start
Tein drop
Star Stage II

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Blizare	Jan-19-06 06:15 AM
Donating 2GNT member 7595 posts,

#92836, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 24

So you put in another walbro right??? No boosting on the stock pump imo. emoji

I eat emo kids for breakfast

1995 Eagle Talon (SOLD)
72' SuperBeetle
72' Standard Beetle
56' Deluxe Beetle

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Emsand1	Jan-19-06 03:48 PM
Member since Mar 03rd 2005 55 posts,

#92862, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 25

Originally posted by Blizare
So you put in another walbro right??? No boosting on the stock pump imo. emoji

Oh yeah...I definitely went with another Walbro. Took my car for the first spin tonite and wow, what a great feeling. I bought the kit used so you really don't know what you're getting. The Tial wastegate must have a 6 or 7 psi spring since it topped out at just over 6 psi. I can't wait to see what another 3 to 4 psi is gonna feel like.

I'm basically running a no cat system since the guy who owned the kit before me cut the exhaust out instead of unbolting it. I have about two foot of exhaust and that's it and damn it's loud.

96 Klipse
Stillen front
Rhedora rear
18"BSAs on 40s
Kenwood Player
Fosgate & Alpine
Viper w/ remote start
Tein drop
Star Stage II

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rs_smoked_you	Jan-19-06 07:27 PM
Member since Nov 14th 2005 201 posts,

#92867, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 26

very nice! good to hear its running good, plus loud int bad if you have the speed to back it up!!

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BigRand	Jan-30-06 01:48 AM
Member since Mar 16th 2005 29 posts,

#93073, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 10

Okay, so I'm just say this now, but you filled the car with 91(minimum octane) before you started the car up right?

Good, now that that dumb question is out of the way, lets see if this will help you out.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=59595&d=1138466299

And this is the thread I found it from on dsmtuners.com

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212954

I'd say make sure your fuel is hooked up correctly, and check for any leaks. Do you have any cel lights with the key in the on position? Does the car even crank? Did you change the spark plugs and make sure they aren't fouled out beyond belief? Did you place your 02 sensor back in the right place after trying to tap the wire?

Okay well I'm done with the random questions, but check all thoughs and see if something works for ya.

---------------------------------------
~Randy
99 GS(w/turbo)
285whp/300ft-lbs

Myspace:
http://www.myspace.com/420aturbo

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ForceFed420a	Jan-30-06 03:04 AM
Member since Oct 18th 2004 620 posts,

#93075, "RE: Car won't start after turbo install"
In response to Reply # 28

Ummm.....he fixed it. It was the fuel pump.

Brian

Red 97 Eclipse GS (420a) MTX
Custom Garrett T3 Turbo system
Megasquirt w/52 lb/hr injectors & a Walbro 255
Kicker/Alpine Audio (3 amps, 2 subs)
90 Cav 2.2 TBI auto (winter) <- yeah, it's fast

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