Do you guys think it's safe to run 20psi with a star stage II turbokit, howell bottom end performance rebuilt kit, and the hahn portfueler. This is pretty much what I have going into my car right now and after the break in period I will dyno tune to 20psi but I am having second thoughts because I can't afford another rebuilt.

Do you guys think I will be ok or if you think it's pushing it what would be a safe but fast ammount of boost driven daily?



Bit and owned by boost bug!

well, to be honest, this should be in the TURBO forum, and it sounds like you need to know a lot more about turboing your car, but to answer your question there are people doing 20+psi daily driven on similar build lists to yours. but they didn't just have someone throw thier stuff into thier car either, they know a lot about turboing and fuel systems and delivery, tuning etc. there is a lot to know/do in regards to tuning your fuel set-up to have a "reliable" 20psi daily driver. its not just an install-n-go type deal.

until you know more about your system beyond whats on the instalation instructions, you should shoot for 16 psi and go learn up on the finer point of turboing... it will only benefit you in the end.

ps - this is the long, polite way of saying "you need to search".

USED TO HAVE...Everything you wish you had, and then some...

You are somebody special Tim, you matter! - from the admins (but nobody likes you, because your username is just like that other guy's, and you whine a lot)

lol you should shoot for like 5psi until you figure things out.

no, it's not safe to run 20psi on 93 octane every day.

Jon

1997 Eclipse RS
1998 Dodge Dakota Sport
12.671 @ 111.660 1.586 60' 5/28/04

www.haiokuracing.com

shaun> i'm sayin', bro!

From what I gathered, it's all in the tuning. But that will all be in the dyno places hands for me. I have the softwear to go with the portfueler and I'm also having an EGT probe and autometer guage to help them with tuning. A lot of help I recieved from etx from this board about my fuel system and whether it can handle 20psi and doing some research it seems that the 4g63 engines can handle that all day. The evo has 20psi stock it seems. I found the posts that said what is needed for 18psi but the portfueler never came out during those posts so i'm not sure how it compares.

I def. have a lot to learn but I'm doing all the research I can do but as always I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.

Also with my rebuilt kit I am using the MLS metal headgasket and I have a stage 3 clutch from titan motorsports as well. Just looking for any info I can get, what would I need to handle 20psi if not this?



Bit and owned by boost bug!

Are you still on the stock diff? If so, 20 psi is going to make for a lot of one-wheel-peels.

Yeah I can't afford another grand for lsd. I'm actually more interested in getting strong axles before that to be able to use slicks one day. I never will do a race from a stop unless it's at the drag strip, if I ever race it would be a roll race on the highway and not an all out street race from a stop. After this I'll start to worry about suspension and traction but with the 9-10psi I had, I had almost no traction problem because of this weard lean spot I had from 4-5.5k. It caused crazy backfire almost as though it was running super rich but my air/fuel went towards lean so I never had a smooth supply of full boost. It was because of my ecu it seemed so I haven't felt traction issues yet, but I am actually excited about having enough power to worry about traction.

In any case, traction and suspension will be my next issue I'm sure, but for now I'm just trying to gather what else I could need if anything to have 20psi daily driven.


Bit and owned by boost bug!

talk to ryan95i4 he is driving EVERYDAY on 22psi on a 20g turdblo....if you got any ? im sure he can answer them

20psi on your car with pump gas.....you get a bad batch of gas and go bye bye....I wouldn't run more then 18 on the street if i were you jimmy.....and i can help you with your tuning if you have a logger....the hell with paying a dyno shop........

_____________________________________________
Jerrome B.
1995 GSX - Race
1997 GST - Drive
1995 GST - Who the hell knows

ok, few things cause im running between 18-20psi on my car.

how many times you accually going to need your car to be at 20psi?
why do you need 20psi dd?
what turbo you have that will handle 20psi efficiantly.
ever hear of traction? good luck getting it.

i think i boost like 10-psi, going half trottle.

In order to run 20 psi on that turbo, you will have to have some sort of way to control your ignition timing advance, using 91-93 octane fuel. If you want to run 100+ octane fuel all the time, then don't worry about it It's def do-able, you just need all the parts that go along with it, to handle the power. And as the others have said, traction will be an issue. You will need damn good tires, a very strong clutchI(best clutch master's clutch you can get..500HP), and some form of a two stage boost controller. You dont want to run 20 psi in 1st, or even 2nd gear for that matter. You won't want to run 20 psi all the time either, you will eat up tires and gas like nothing. Having it available to run 20 psi is what you want. And yes, you will need good amounts of tuning(fuel and ignition timing). Sounds like the Megasquirt n'spark setup would be good for your objectives.

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

These were the answers I was looking for. The post above hit the nail on the head. I want 20psi available to me which is why I wanted to dyno tune with 20psi. 18psi is fine I guess but I'm sure it will spike to 19-20 anyway. I guess to be safer I'll dyno tune and keep it at 18psi daily driven, but is that a big enough dif. in boost or just as bad. Bigbald thanx for offering to help, but I'd like it dynotuned just to be sure and I'm curious about what my hp will be anyway.

The clutch I have going in is the stage 3 one from titan motorsports and like I said I would only romp on it from a roll but I guess sometimes I'd have some fun from a stop, but that wouldn't be for racing.

What do you guys think with 18psi dynotuned. Also if it's dynotuned do you think it would spike to 19-20 or would it hold the boost better? Thanks again for all the help this is exactly what I was looking for. I've talked to etx who has run more than 20psi with the 8 injector setup but then I've talked to so many others who said that could cause my engine to go again.


Bit and owned by boost bug!

I told him to wait on the megasquirt and he went and got the portfueler. Well Jimmy, I'm sure 20psi will be fine. But you really have to mind your tuning since anything over 93 is hard to find. Some of the other cars starts to advance it's timing at 15psi and others over 20psi. That's why tuning is extremely important over 15psi. I run 15psi daily and I can feel if my car is not acting right sometimes. I say you should tap out at 18psi until you can get a wideband and better tuning tools.

intricatelines.com/ -graphics and vinyls

"Tell them of us and say,
For their tomorrow,
We gave our today."
-- The Kohima Epitaph

I don't want to reiterate any of the previous posts, but running a turbo setup capable of handling 20psi daily is certainly possible--with the right fuel/ignition setup. For a basic piggyback fuel controller type setup on pump gas, I believe boosting over 18-20 is riding a fine line at which detonation and timing issue becomes a factor. Even well known tuner shops (if you read Turbo, Sport Compact or other mags) shy from boosting over ~18-19 psi on pump gas.

The reliable factor is another issue; I think the more power output you can achieve, the less reliable a car becomes. It's not only the 20 psi itself that is a factor, but other things, such as, detonation, frequency and length of time at which you put that load on the car, and proper maintenance. Just my .02

___________
Kon C

"Sometimes, a man has to do what a man has to do."

I tried to do a search on megasquirt after finally learning all I can about the portfueler and I just can't figure out what it is. So I was basically worried it was too much for me, and I wouldn't know what to do with it. The portfueler seemed to be a bolt on kit which is the main reason why i bought it.


Bit and owned by boost bug!

It seems that timing is the main issue, I'm very ignorant but it seems our ecu is the biggest problem. 15psi seems to be the line between having any sort of timing issues. Now I'm very much contemplating dyno tuning to 15psi, and leaving it at that. I want to learn more about the megasquirt and whether it'll work with the 8 injector setup but I'm also thinking of one day going full standalone. I'm very ignorant on all this though but it seems these are what will fix the timing issues and make it much more safer to run 18-20psi.

Keep the comments coming I think these are setting me in the right direction.

Bit and owned by boost bug!

I've run 15 psi daily for quite a while now. It's a lot of fun, and sometimes, I wonder why I would want to run more. 1st gear is useless at 15 psi, so my Greddy Profec B Spec II goes into low boost(8 psi), and then to 15 psi in second gear. Even with my 17" Toyo T1S tires, it still breaks loose in second gear at 15 psi. It's a great boost level to run, and to be honest, I don't even hit 15 psi that often. Only for certain times that arise I think 8-10 psi is fun for daily driving..that's just me though. I usually now just keep the boost controller in low boost all the time..

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

Nice thats good to know. 15psi def. sounds like the ideal boost setting. What would be a predicted whp figure with that psi and the portfueler and the star stage II turbokit. I did a search and found some numbers with 14psi, none with the 8 injector setup though, but from what I've gathered...280whp around? I also have this ghetto 3"catback exhuast that leads to a 2.5" muffler. Would that hurt my whp. I mean if I got a new 3" catback exhuast with a 3" high performance cat for instance, would this help increase hp without stressing the engine with more boost, or would it not differ to much from the exhuast I have now?


Bit and owned by boost bug!

Having a complete 3" exhaust will benefit you at the boost level. However the key thing here is to make sure you utilize a muffler design that will be "non-turbulent". (no baffles, or corregated louvers through the center core) It's tough to say what type of improvement you could expect since already having 3" piping, but an additional 10-12whp would be realistic through a 3" high flow cat and muffler with your planned set-up.

--------------------------------------
know me as santiago
boosted 420a and ej2o..(my 2liter v8 eaters)

Thanx, yeah the reason I am interested in this is because after learning that 15psi the ideal boost setting, I wanted to find other ways to get more whp out of her. But what I'm wondering is will this put the same ammount of stress as raising the boost or is it a much better and safer way to gain more hp. For instance if I was to do a port and polish and get a better exhuast, would this put more stress on the engine as though I just raised the boost?



Bit and owned by boost bug!

with all do respect, it sounds like your thinking too hard about this. but to make it simple; an efficient exhaust will allow the engine, turbo, and other related parts to work more freely. (less stress)


--------------------------------------
know me as santiago
boosted 420a and ej2o..(my 2liter v8 eaters)

Gotchya, and yeah I am really thinkin hard into this, lol, I want more power but with more power comes more problems and I really can't afford another rebuilt. So i'm taking everyone's word for it and hopefully will be satisfied with 15psi of boost, thanx a lot for the info and dealing with my ignorance! Back to searching and lurking.


Bit and owned by boost bug!

Jimmy with forge internals you won't have to worry about blowing another engine, especially since it's low compression. You'd have to be detonating hardcore for you your rebuilt engine to go. If I had the portfueler, I'd defintely go for 20psi. 15psi is fun, but you always wonder about a couple more psi.

intricatelines.com/ -graphics and vinyls

"Tell them of us and say,
For their tomorrow,
We gave our today."
-- The Kohima Epitaph

Niice, I forgot I will have 8.6 compression, but I thought everyone here that rebuilt went for that?

Bit and owned by boost bug!

Sorry to bring back this thread. But I am in need of advice with something new I want to try. I am going to be using water injection from coolingmist.com, I upgraded to 100psi waterpump and will use windshield washer fluid. Do you guys think this will solve the issues with timing and let me boost 18-20psi? The car is almost done, I'm making some last minute decisions on whether I can do this with the portfueler, or should I keep it at low boost and try and get the megasquirt.


Bit and owned by boost bug!

I don't know if it will "solve the issues" per se.

Adding water or R-OH is effectively like upping the octane, giving you more resistance to detonation.

the best path I see is running an MS+S like Mr. Slick's got. That'll give you full control on your timing when you're up there, and with 20 psi you can stick with the original (one they give you) MAP sensor. Water or alcohol is a not a bad idea, but if you're stuggling with timing (or worried about it), MS is a way that you can be sure that you have control.

Brian

Red 97 Eclipse GS (420a) MTX
Custom Garrett T3 Turbo system
Megasquirt w/52 lb/hr injectors & a Walbro 255
Kicker/Alpine Audio (3 amps, 2 subs)
90 Cav 2.2 TBI auto (winter) <- yeah, it's fast

I just pmed him. But I'm hoping this will work with the 8 injector setup and I won't have bad timing issues. Also will the fuel pump that the Star kit came with be good for 18-20psi?


Bit and owned by boost bug!

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX


"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

Makes me feel a lot better to have choosen to use water injection. Right now I'm just really hoping to reach close to 300whp with the portfueler and water injection, with the turbo that came with the star kit. I think with that turbo, thats pretty good power. I know eventually if I wanted more, I'd def. need the megasquirt but right now I'd really want to work with what I have. But for say 18-20psi on pump gas + water injection, do u guys think I'll be good without the megasquirt?


Bit and owned by boost bug!

as long as you keep that boost cool and your air fuel numbers stay in check across the rpm range i think you'll be perfectly fine on 20psi. how often do you really need to use 20 pounds of boost though? lol...hardly ever

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX


"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

Oh yeah def. lol, I just really want that power on tap, or just know that I can use it safely. I mean I may even keep the boost at 15 for daily driving (but knowing me idk). But just to know I can safely up the boost some nights if I ever need it...

I hang out with a lot of 4g63 guys and it seems they can run 20psi all day long, being the only 420a I wanna represent when needed.


Bit and owned by boost bug!

ok i know im comparing apples to oranges here, but showing the extremes sometimes proves the point.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX


"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

Great info Turbo8u!

_____________________________________
Scott
90' GSX, 06' Effo SSL

(parting out 95 GS)

I really can't wait to see if the water injection will let me maintain 18psi and up! Thanx for all this info again it's very reassuring. Eventually I'd love to get the megasquirt but right now I'm ganna see how it will do without it. It's going to my windshield washer resevoir so it should have a lot for when it's low, I'll have to see if it's brite enough for me and if not I'll improvise. And I'll keep an extra bucket of windshield washer fluid in back always.


Bit and owned by boost bug!

i wouldnt use windwhield washer fluid bro...

yes it has alcohol in it but i think it has other crap too, just go to a local hardware store and get a jug of some denatured alcohol and mix it 50/50 or 70/30 with distilled water

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX


"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

There is someone who is using it that I know and he says it's 50% water, 49% methonal, 1% blue dye which is harmless. He said to just watch out for the ones that carry antifreeze now huh oh...lol...

But I also went to the FAQ in the watermist.com site and it seems lots of ppl run it and it works fine. They said to look for the all season ones that contain methonal.


Bit and owned by boost bug!

The only thing you must worry about with water injection is running low on fluid and a clogged injector. Some of the pricier kits include electronics that control failsafes for these conditions. It definately is worthwhile, I know many people that have tuned on using 91-93 octane and saw results as if they have tuned with 100 octane. Mixture is a big debate, and there are many opinions on this but many people run pure water as well as pure denatured alcohol in their systems. Just remember a pump with non stainless steel internals will not last long using water full time.

Evo VIII, 98 Eclipse GS