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Subject: "hmm may have to do a head gasket here.."

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XtremeRS	Jul-22-04 04:55 PM
Member since May 20th 2003 6329 posts,

#74250, "hmm may have to do a head gasket here.."

Ok this is tough call. It all started when i changed out the stat to a 180, and dumped out the overflow tank..found some strange looking greyish floating crud in the coolant. Also, on the rubber gaskets of the pressure cap, found traces of sparkly copper from the gasket spray used on the head gasket. A few weeks ago i flushed the entire system with a flush kit and garden hose, and let it flush for at least an hour. Now i've been keeping an eye on both oil and coolant, and compression. I now have 180 psi compression hot, dead even on all 4. When the motor was rebuilt, it was 190-195 dead on, on all 4.

So tonight i check the overflow again, and still more grey crud..not much, just a little, but the copper specs are still there. I then pulled the oil dipstick out and put a dab of that oil onto a piece of black vac hose, and put it up to a flood light and saw a little copper specs in it too...wierd thing is i'm not using any coolant..i mean it may go down like 1/8" a week if that..def nothing out of the ordinary. No overheating, no mixing of fluids. The lower compression ,and copper specs just dont add up...I could see left over copper from the coolant, since coolant is not filterd, but it should def not be in the oil. Not after almost 15k miles on the rebuild..

I dont know if i want to take a chance with it going to the shootout..so i may just rip it off and replace it..have the head cleaned, valve job, and deck resurface..I think its really hard to tell using the MLS gasket, when you have a small leak..what do you guys think..the grey crud and copper specs are what worry me..compression isn't bad or anything, its just abnormally lower than before..

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

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RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.., siueclipse, Jul-22-04 05:07 PM, #1

RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.., Team

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JasonESi_T, Jul-22-04 05:20 PM, #2

RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.., Team

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XtremeRS, Jul-22-04 05:29 PM, #3

RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.., Global Ruler Of All Things

Global Ruler Of All Things

DarkOne, Jul-22-04 06:03 PM, #4

RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.., Team

Team

XtremeRS, Jul-22-04 06:24 PM, #5

RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.., Chamuko, Jul-22-04 07:08 PM, #6

RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.., Global Ruler Of All Things

Global Ruler Of All Things

DarkOne, Jul-23-04 04:35 AM, #7

RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.., Team

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XtremeRS, Jul-23-04 07:18 AM, #8

RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.., Moderator

Moderator

micyek, Jul-23-04 07:36 AM, #9

RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.., soulcontroller, Jul-23-04 11:44 AM, #10

RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.., Team

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XtremeRS, Jul-23-04 02:40 PM, #11

RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.., Team

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XtremeRS, Jul-25-04 03:50 PM, #12

RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.., soulcontroller, Jul-25-04 05:10 PM, #13

RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.., techboy, Jul-25-04 05:44 PM, #14

RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.., Team

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XtremeRS, Jul-25-04 05:58 PM, #15

RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.., Team

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JasonESi_T, Jul-26-04 09:34 AM, #16

RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.., Team

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XtremeRS, Jul-26-04 10:10 AM, #17

RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.., Team

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JasonESi_T, Jul-26-04 10:21 AM, #18

siueclipse	Jul-22-04 05:07 PM
Member since Nov 28th 2002 3504 posts,

#74251, "RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.."
In response to Reply # 0

180 compression is fine on a built motor. when you first build a motor, the compression will be higher than normal and fall a little.

i wouldnt worry.. what ever happens, will happen.

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JasonESi_T	Jul-22-04 05:20 PM
Donating 2GNT member 3107 posts,

#74254, "RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.."
In response to Reply # 1

I agree. I doubt at this point, even if it was leaking a little, that you would all of the sudden have your car fail. Lots of cars' HG's leak a little anyways, and they go thousands upon thousands of miles longer, so long as they're not overheating or anything. And besides, the worst thing that could happen is that it does go out, and you simply slap in a new one at the SO to get home. It wouldn't take more than a socket set (for the most part) to get it done, if needed anyways.

That Autozone is only a block or so away from the hotel, ya know. hahah

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

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XtremeRS	Jul-22-04 05:29 PM
Member since May 20th 2003 6329 posts,

#74255, "RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.."
In response to Reply # 2
Jul-22-04 05:31 PM by XtremeRS

haha yeah the last thing i want to see at the shoot out is the Autozone! I don't know what to do really...I'm worry a lot about shit, and having the car take a dump out of town would suck ass. These MLS gaskets are damn near indestructable, and hell, it may only be leaking tiny amounts of pressure when under full boost..who knows..I mean, i have the time to do it now, but what happens if all of sudden it starts eating up the coolant a few days before the SO haha..I kinda like to take it off anyway, just to see if I can tell which cylinder(s) were detonating..looking through the spark plug holes, there is pretty good amounts of carbon the piston tops i'd like to clean too..i can have the head off in 3-4 hours easy anyway..I think i may do it just for fun emoji

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

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DarkOne	Jul-22-04 06:03 PM
Donating 2GNT member 14955 posts,

#74256, "RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.."
In response to Reply # 3

If its not overheating, don't worry about it. Hell, i drove my car with a blown headgasket for SIX MONTHS. Overheated all the time, never into the red, but always higher than normal. it'd even blow coolant out of the overflow it leaked so bad. I made three track passes like that too.

You worry too much.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)

Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

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XtremeRS	Jul-22-04 06:24 PM
Member since May 20th 2003 6329 posts,

#74257, "RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.."
In response to Reply # 4

Originally posted by DarkOne
You worry too much.

Hehe yeah i know emoji

But wouldnt you agree, if i can see small amounts of tiny copper particles in my oil, that pressure is getting by the HG fire ring?

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

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Chamuko	Jul-22-04 07:08 PM
Donating 2GNT member 3668 posts,

#74260, "RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.."
In response to Reply # 5
Jul-22-04 07:11 PM by Chamuko

Yeah man, unless your coolant is bubbling and such, then I would worry.

You will know when you have a leak. So far it sounds way too small to loose sleep over or give it a second thought.

BTW Pls answer your PM's Dino

Member # 751

FOUNDER of the Central Cali chapter of 2GNT!
(I got kicked out after I refused to go Cow tiping) - Hehehe you know who this is for

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DarkOne	Jul-23-04 04:35 AM
Donating 2GNT member 14955 posts,

#74265, "RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.."
In response to Reply # 6
Jul-23-04 04:37 AM by DarkOne

Originally posted by Chamuko
BTW Pls answer your PM's Dino

I did.

Matt, that's hard to say. Try a leakdown, see if you're getting anything into the waterjacket. I doubt it, else it'd be overheating... As far as the copper material goes, you probably got some both into the coolant passages and oil passages of the block when you sprayed the stuff all ofer the sealing surface. Once is tries and tacks up, it's not all gonna come off as soon as the car runs it'll slwoly flake off over time.

The grey crud in your reserviour could be rubber goo from old hoses.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)

Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

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XtremeRS	Jul-23-04 07:18 AM
Member since May 20th 2003 6329 posts,

#74268, "RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.."
In response to Reply # 7

Originally posted by DarkOne

Originally posted by Chamuko BTW Pls answer your PM's Dino

I did. Matt, that's hard to say. Try a leakdown, see if you're getting anything into the waterjacket. I doubt it, else it'd be overheating... As far as the copper material goes, you probably got some both into the coolant passages and oil passages of the block when you sprayed the stuff all ofer the sealing surface. Once is tries and tacks up, it's not all gonna come off as soon as the car runs it'll slwoly flake off over time. The grey crud in your reserviour could be rubber goo from old hoses.

Yeah, well i put in around 95 psi from an air comressor a few weeks back, and had normal blow by the rings...but the strange thing was, on cylinder 2, when i took off the air supply, the coolant level at the filler neck went down slightly..that was the only cylinder that did that..no bubbles though..I dont think 95 psi is nearly enough pressure to find anything anyway..I think i may just yank the head sunday, and see what i find. Get it resurfaced adn cleaned, and valve seats checked. And maybe even for more engine fun, take off the rod caps and check out my bearing wear..maybe i can tell which cylinders were getting the knock. I can get that head off in no time emoji

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

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micyek	Jul-23-04 07:36 AM
Donating 2GNT member 5070 posts,

#74270, "RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.."
In response to Reply # 8

hey mtt...if you want to have fun working on a 2gnt...why don't you change my timing belt for me? emoji LOL

BTW it doesn't sound like you have to worry aabout you HG to me

getty up

-kent-

'98 Talon...gone, but not forgotten

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soulcontroller	Jul-23-04 11:44 AM
Donating 2GNT member 2490 posts,

#74278, "RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.."
In response to Reply # 9

haha were doing my timing belt tomorrow :\ weve all got our hands full changing timing belts before the shootout hahaha.

______________________________
Matt D.
'06 Evo IX SE
'98 RS-T 13.8 @ 106.1

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XtremeRS	Jul-23-04 02:40 PM
Member since May 20th 2003 6329 posts,

#74282, "RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.."
In response to Reply # 10

Cylinder head and timing belt madnessss!!!!!!!!! emoji

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

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XtremeRS	Jul-25-04 03:50 PM
Member since May 20th 2003 6329 posts,

#74356, "RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.."
In response to Reply # 11
Jul-25-04 03:54 PM by XtremeRS

Well I got the head off today..heh record time= 3.5 hours haha..Its hard to tell, but it looks like the HG was leaking between the cylinders, and there were a few spots where it looked iffy by a few of the water jackets. I'm going to take the head to the machine shop tomorrow to have it cleaned and pressure tested. The head deck surface had a rather "rough" finish on it, where you could feel the tooling marks with your fingernail too..that is a bit too rought IMO..should be a nice smooth surface for that MLS to seal properly.. I also found that my water pump sprocket is slightly bent..go figure. My radiator also has some good corrosion in it, i could just barely see a few of the cores through the top water neck, and saw that crusty white buildup on them...

Sooo I'm getting a new radiator, water pump, HG, possibly exhaust valves since they almost have 100k on em, new stem seals, cam seals, and a few other odd and end stuff..looks like one of my stock injector O rings was leaking too, and possibly one of my secondary O rings on the second fuel rail..Glad i took this shit off emoji The cylinder walls look great, and there is just a little bit of carbon buildup on the piston tops..not too bad after 20k since the rebuild.

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

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soulcontroller	Jul-25-04 05:10 PM
Donating 2GNT member 2490 posts,

#74363, "RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.."
In response to Reply # 12

wow matt... one thing always leads to another haha.

hey if you want some replacement valves, ive got some low mileage ones you can have. call me tomorrow or something?

______________________________
Matt D.
'06 Evo IX SE
'98 RS-T 13.8 @ 106.1

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techboy	Jul-25-04 05:44 PM
Member since May 20th 2002 1662 posts,

#74371, "RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.."
In response to Reply # 13

I think he was going to take the head off no matter what we said. Glad to see somebody around here has money to burn ... I'm out and my car still doesn't run.

1999 Eclipse GST 4G63

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XtremeRS	Jul-25-04 05:58 PM
Member since May 20th 2003 6329 posts,

#74372, "RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.."
In response to Reply # 14

Originally posted by techboy
I think he was going to take the head off no matter what we said. Glad to see somebody around here has money to burn ... I'm out and my car still doesn't run.

haha I dont exactly have money to burn..i'm always broke..mostly because it goes into the car emoji

My bank and CC company loves me..After doing this, i'll just barely have enough money to get to the Shootout..Just didn't want to take any chances with the car, esp if i am runnng it hard. I'm glad I took my advice though, with the other issues i found emoji

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

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JasonESi_T	Jul-26-04 09:34 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3107 posts,

#74401, "RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.."
In response to Reply # 15

So those pistons didn't show anything from the knock we've been monitoring?

(good news!)

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

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XtremeRS	Jul-26-04 10:10 AM
Member since May 20th 2003 6329 posts,

#74408, "RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.."
In response to Reply # 16

Originally posted by JasonESi_T
So those pistons didn't show anything from the knock we've been monitoring? (good news!)

Not that I can tell..I could still see some clean piston top at the intake valve side of the piston, and the rest has just a small amount of surface carbon on them. No erosion, melting, or other signs of damage from the knock..Cylinder walls look great and crosshatch is still all there. Around 20k since i originally assembled the built motor..

I took the head to the machine shop this morning, and right away they said there was too rough a surface on the head. You can feel the tooling grooves with your finger nail, and for a MLS gasket, the surface needs to be very smooth for it to seal properly. They looked at the head and gasket, and say no obvious signs of any large leaks, but he did say it was leaking slightly, and would have gotten worse over time of course..So the rough surface on the head, and the addition of the small detonaion, is what prob made it start leaking. The guy who ported my head must not have known I was using a MLS gasket..Composites can handle a rougher surface over a multi layer steel..I should have her back together by the weekend emoji

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

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JasonESi_T	Jul-26-04 10:21 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3107 posts,

#74409, "RE: hmm may have to do a head gasket here.."
In response to Reply # 17

Hooray for FORGED pistons!

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

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