Hey guys,

I've done a bit of searching, but I have not been able to find a definitive answer to my problem. Let me explain.

This strange issue has been present ever since I turbocharged my car, and has gotten increasingly more frequent over time. This is basicly what happens.

I floor the gas pedal.
The tires burn for a few seconds.
The tires grip.
The car pulls like a mofo.
At approximately 6 psi or slightly above, the car falls flat on its face. It basicly stops accelerating, and jerks violently. I have recreated this problem several times, just to try and diagnose the symptoms.

My EGT gauge is right around 1550-1600 during the sputtering. My A/F gauge goes wild, flashing from full lean, to full rich, and everything in between. Boost holds steady at 6 psi.

This problem has gotten much worse over time, and the only way to drive the car hard, is to set the boost at 5 psi or lower. The problem only occurs when the boost is turned up to 6 psi or higher. I have checked the following items for clues:

All intercooler and intake piping is secure, with no signs of leaks.
Timing is perfect.
Spark plug wires do not arc when sprayed with water.
Missing Link FCD is working properly.
Fuel pressures are well within acceptable range (messed with the fuel stuff a ton).
Bleed Valve for SFMU is functioning properly.
No relevant check engine lights (keydance yeilds codes for ECU power loss within last 50 key-on cycles, and a code for EGR system failure (cause I took all the EGR stuff off a few weeks ago)).

Having ruled out many possible causes, I'm beginning to think ignition could be the culprit. From my searching, I saw some posts that showed similiar issues, but never my exact problem. Some people mentioned faulty coil packs and cam-angle sensors. I would really like to try a new coil pack, but I cant afford to buy one unless I'm sure its causing my problems.

Debate.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, using brand new NGK spark plugs.



1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / Aerogear Body / Coated in Magnetic Red Metallic rev.2 / T3 Turbo Intercooled @ 8 psi / More at http://home.insightbb.com/~mgalyan/
Mark Galyan - Indianapolis, Indiana

Only becuase I'm a fanatic of simple solutions...

__________________________________________
~Chris
03 SRT-4

Yeah, it really sounds like fuel cut to me. I got that before when i took off my faulty HRC FCD and boosted it..part throttle boost was fine really but when i went WOT, at a certain RPM, the car just went nuts and bucked like all hell..i was like oh shit! haha its def a very strange feeling. Get a datalogger, or borrow one, and read the map sensor. If your FCD is working properly, map values should never go above 98 kpa, plus or minus several kpa for altitude. If it goes higher under boost, then you know the FCD is not working properly.

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

I wish I could afford a datalogger. I'm so broke it's not even funny. I suppose the easy way to tell if its fuel cut would be to simply take out the missing link and drive the car in boost. I'm absolutely positive that I will know if the "feeling" is the same. It's fairly unmistakable. If it still acts weird, and feels the same, then theres a good chance the missing link isn't doing what its supposed to. It's not a foolproof idea, but it could lead me in the right direction. I'll take the car out tomorrow and let you guys know what happens.


1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / Aerogear Body / Coated in Magnetic Red Metallic rev.2 / T3 Turbo Intercooled @ 8 psi / More at http://home.insightbb.com/~mgalyan/
Mark Galyan - Indianapolis, Indiana

__________________________________________
~Chris
03 SRT-4

I'm going to have to try that first, cause I don't have the original map sensor screws. Just the long ones that came with the ML. Gonna do a search and see how to clean it.


1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / Aerogear Body / Coated in Magnetic Red Metallic rev.2 / T3 Turbo Intercooled @ 8 psi / More at http://home.insightbb.com/~mgalyan/
Mark Galyan - Indianapolis, Indiana

Ok...

I cleaned the missing link real good. Soaked it in warm sopay water for an hour, then rinsed it real nice. I cant blow through it on the one end, and I cant suck through it on the other end, so it is working properly. Tested it on the car just now, and it still sputters just like before.

But Alas! After a voilent sputter session, he have a new CEL.

42 PO352 43 Ignition coil #2 primary circuit Harness and connector / Ignition coil #2
43 PO351 43 Ignition coil #1 primary circuit Harness and connector / Ignition coil #1

Does this confirm my suspicion of a faulty coil pack? I checked the connector harness earlier on it, btw. Looks fine.



1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / Aerogear Body / Coated in Magnetic Red Metallic rev.2 / T3 Turbo Intercooled @ 8 psi / More at http://home.insightbb.com/~mgalyan/
Mark Galyan - Indianapolis, Indiana

Looks like it to me. Ya get a CEL for a reason.

__________________________________________
~Chris
03 SRT-4

Too bad those things cost like 70 dollars. Might as well do plug wires while I am at it...


1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / Aerogear Body / Coated in Magnetic Red Metallic rev.2 / T3 Turbo Intercooled @ 8 psi / More at http://home.insightbb.com/~mgalyan/
Mark Galyan - Indianapolis, Indiana

__________________________________________
~Chris
03 SRT-4

Well, this is a little old post I made, but I wanted to bring it back for a bit.

Since my last post, I tried a brand new OEM ignition coil, brand new plugs, and brand new plug wires. I cleaed the missing link thoroughly, re-checked the fuel pressure, made an extra engine ground, did a compression test (160 on all 4 cyl.), and took apart the SFMU to look for any problems. Nothing seems wrong.

The sputtering has gotten WAY worse now. Anything over 1/4 throttle and the car just goes berzerk (now in vacuum and boost). The car is barely drivable, and incredibly frustrating.

When I do a keydance, I still get:

43 PO351 43 Ignition coil #1 primary circuit Harness and connector / Ignition coil #1

Except now it blinks the same code (43) twice.

I really need to figure this problem out NOW. IF it gets any worse, I'm afraid it will become undrivable.

Just start spitting ideas at me.



1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / Aerogear Body / Coated in Magnetic Red Metallic rev.2 / T3 Turbo Intercooled @ 8 psi / More at http://home.insightbb.com/~mgalyan/
Mark Galyan - Indianapolis, Indiana

I just happened to notice that 43 on the keydance also can mean:

43 Multiple cylinder misfire* Ignition coil / Spark plugs / Ignition circuit / Injector / Upstream HO2S / Compression pressure / Timing belt / Crankshaft position sensor / Air intake / Fuel pressure / Crankshaft position sensor circuit and connector / Bad tuning


1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / Aerogear Body / Coated in Magnetic Red Metallic rev.2 / T3 Turbo Intercooled @ 8 psi / More at http://home.insightbb.com/~mgalyan/
Mark Galyan - Indianapolis, Indiana

I ordered a pocketlogger last night to see if I can find any sensors reporting wacky values during the problem. FYI, they have lowered the prices on pocketloggers to 125 bucks. Any tips on what I could look for when logging? Or any other ideas on this matter?


1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / Aerogear Body / Coated in Magnetic Red Metallic rev.2 / T3 Turbo Intercooled @ 8 psi / More at http://home.insightbb.com/~mgalyan/
Mark Galyan - Indianapolis, Indiana

if its any help to ya, im getting the same exact thing. mine is from running VERY rich, in the 9's. im trying to tune my 034efi, but as usual my car is the orange in an apple barrel, it just has to be different. i have the same code 43, but i also got a code 21 a few days ago for o2 sensor voltage issues. basicly its going tits up.

USED TO HAVE...Everything you wish you had, and then some...

You are somebody special Tim, you matter! - from the admins (but nobody likes you, because your username is just like that other guy's, and you whine a lot)

I've had that sputtering before and it was related to the spark plug wires. I didn't get a code 43 though. Sounds ignition related to me. Since you changed the plugs, change the wires next. If that doesn't do it, I'd go with a new coil.

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

Yeah, i got a misfire before at higher rpm, and it was related to the stock plug wires. I upgraded to some high performance wires from Taylor, and it was gone. Just as info, a misfire is like a studdering of the engine, barely being able to "feel" it, and fuel cut is a real bucking of the motor, which the whole car just bucks and shakes like crazy...you can def tell the difference between the two. Run some good performance wires, and plug gaps around .032-.035, and if its still there, get a new coil pack. I would also check the wireing harnesses that run along the EGR pipe if you have it still on there, to be sure no wires have touched and melted, causing shorts.

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

I have already bought (and installed) new plugs, new wires, and a new coil pack.

This is NOT a subtle feeling, but a complete bucking and total and udder lack of acceleration. Also, not sure if this has anything to do with it, but my oil smells strongly of gas. This leads me to believe my rings are shot, however compression still looks good. Thats probably another issue altogether.

It has become very bad now, and happens at just about any RPM, at any throttle position above about 1/4. Nearly undrivable and not very fast. I could get beat by a 3 cylinder metro right now and its very frustrating.


1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / Aerogear Body / Coated in Magnetic Red Metallic rev.2 / T3 Turbo Intercooled @ 8 psi / More at http://home.insightbb.com/~eclipse2nr/
Mark Galyan - Indianapolis, Indiana

Okay, then it's most likely fuel related or your timing is somehow getting pulled.

What are your fuel pressures at full boost? Stock injectors? Do you just run a RRFPR?

I'd say slap a datalogger on your car and go for a run to where it falls flat on its face. If things are smelling like gas, you know at least fuel is not getting burned where it should be.

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

Well, if you cant read fuel pressures, you shouldn't really complain about your WOT boosted conditions and/or results.

Why?

Because your boosted fuel tuning is almost 100% dependent on appropriate fuel pressures. If you don't know what they are, you might as well have a blind man conduct your tuning. You're not even running stock sized injectors. I don't mean to sound critical, but when I was running setup similar to your own, I had my fuel pressure gauge on my windsheild it seemed ALL the time, making sure everything was correct with my tuning.

How can you make this statement within your initial post as well?

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

OK... I'm not going to argue with your post. However, I think I may be on to something here. Have a look for yourself.

The ignition coil/fuel pump relay wiring harnesses:






Do these look *burnt* to you guys?

1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / Aerogear Body / Coated in Magnetic Red Metallic rev.2 / T3 Turbo Intercooled @ 8 psi / More at http://home.insightbb.com/~eclipse2nr/
Mark Galyan - Indianapolis, Indiana

By the way, WOT throttle sputtering is an improper term for this problem now. It has become ANY THROTTLE sputtering whether in boost, or not. It also gets way worse towards 5k rpms. Not sure if that means anything. Still looking for ideas here. Also, theres no reason to assume that there is a fuel pressure issue, because this setup worked fine for a long time, and suddenly started sputtering like this out of nowhere, with no changes to the fuel system. I know the LED A/F gauges are almost worthless, but I noticed tonight when I was doing an in-car diagnosis, I noticed when it starts sputtering, the A/F gauge goes way into the red (lean). I do not have a lean or rich CEL at this point. Just an EGR code and two code 43's. They could either mean Ignition Coil 1/2, or two cylinders of misfiring. In all honesty, this feels like an electrical sputtering. When it happens, the exhaust sound rapidly starts pusling. The car idles fine, and cruises ok, but any decent throttle ammount results in the sputtering. Any ideas are welcome.

Thanks.


1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / Aerogear Body / Coated in Magnetic Red Metallic rev.2 / T3 Turbo Intercooled @ 8 psi / More at http://home.insightbb.com/~eclipse2nr/
Mark Galyan - Indianapolis, Indiana

Mark I'm gonna solve your problem right now. You have OUR bleed valve turned in too far. You need to open it up more. What happened was when OUR bleed valve is turned in too close, the sfmu is allowing too much fuel into the engine at full boost. What you need to do now, is drive around with the sfmu off (take off the fuse to it). Burn off that excess fuel that is flooding your engine. Another way is to let the car idle for a while, but that can take some time. I like to boost until I can feel there is no more fuel in the chamber. Trust me, you can feel it when the turbo spools, the car doesn't move and feels like it wants to burp. When your car sounds like it's about to die at idle, you can put the fuse to the sfmu back in. Now after adjusting our bleed valve, happy boosting. I'm almost positive I just fixed your problem.

intricatelines.com/ -graphics and vinyls

"Tell them of us and say,
For their tomorrow,
We gave our today."
-- The Kohima Epitaph

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

BTW, I don't know if I've posted this yet, but I also tried the smaller sfmu disc, which by looking at the fuel slopes on Vortech's website, should have made me a little lean. It didn't make any difference in the sputtering problem.


1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / Aerogear Body / Coated in Magnetic Red Metallic rev.2 / T3 Turbo Intercooled @ 8 psi / More at http://home.insightbb.com/~eclipse2nr/
Mark Galyan - Indianapolis, Indiana

OK, I got my pocketlogger and did some testing with it.

Turns out my CEL's are:

Ignition Coil B Primary/Secondary Circuit
and
Cylinder 4 Misfire Detected

I was able to get my LTFTs and STFTs to sit damn close to 0 at idle. I also logged a hard pull in 3rd gear into boost, and my MAP readings never went above 99 kpa, so my missing link is working. My O2 voltage maxed out at about .92v. I really don't think this problem is fuel pressure.

What else can an ignition coil CEL mean? I already replaced the coil, plugs, and plug wires. Could it be that relay? A problem in the ignition could easily cause the misfire in cyl. 4 too, right? Help me try to iron out this problem please, it's driving me crazy.



1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / Aerogear Body / Coated in Magnetic Red Metallic rev.2 / T3 Turbo Intercooled @ 8 psi / More at http://home.insightbb.com/~eclipse2nr/
Mark Galyan - Indianapolis, Indiana

Well I took my car to a diagnostic technician and he messed around with it for a little while, and when his OBD-2 tool would not connect properly, he gave up and didn't charge me. The only thing he mentioned to me was that my injector pulsewidth is too long. He said that typically means the ECU is holding them open longer because the fuel pressure is not high enough. However my fuel pressure is 24 psi at idle, and fuel trims are 0 both LT and ST. He said on our car the injector pulsewidth should be around 1.5ms and mine is 2.5-3.0ms.

I also want to add that the sputtering is very random and chaotic in vacuum and partial throttle. However, we noticed that the sputtering becomes very bad at 4750 rpm. Every time. If I hit 4750 rpm and try to keep accelerating, it is a constant misfire, and my CEL starts blinking at me.

Another mechanic suggested that my valve seals could be bad... ?

I need more ideas. I think this 4750 rpm thing might spark some ideas. If so, please give me any advice. I want my car to start running good again. THANKS!


1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / Aerogear Body / Coated in Magnetic Red Metallic rev.2 / T3 Turbo Intercooled @ 8 psi / More at http://home.insightbb.com/~eclipse2nr/
Mark Galyan - Indianapolis, Indiana

Yo...

I bought another fuel pressure gauge that hooks up to the fuel rail test port. What I found is very interesting.

When the car starts sputtering, the fuel pressure wildly and rapidly bounces from 75 to 100 psi, in-synch with the sputtering of the car. This could very well be the problem, but the boost/vacuum gauge does not bounce around at all. That was the first thing that came to my mind (if pressure is varying wildly, the sfmu is going to do the same thing).

So what in the world could cause the fuel pressure to rapidly bounce between 75 and 100 psi at 4750 rpm and above? Even if the injectors were doing something wild, surely to god they couldnt even affect fuel pressure THAT much. I wouldn't think anyway. So this might be the biggest find in my search for the reason my car is running for shit. Please offer any suggestions on what could cause the fuel pressure to go crazy like that.

THANKS!!!

1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / Aerogear Body / Coated in Magnetic Red Metallic rev.2 / T3 Turbo Intercooled @ 8 psi / More at http://home.insightbb.com/~eclipse2nr/
Mark Galyan - Indianapolis, Indiana