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Subject: "Turbo efficiency comparison"

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mototool	Mar-12-04 02:57 PM
Member since Sep 16th 2003 172 posts,

#66937, "Turbo efficiency comparison"

Hey 2gnter's - check out this totally fucking stupid graph:

Way to go, Hahn

Tell me why this graph is totally full of shit? Who can answer this for me? If you post anything stupid, I'll personally write your parents a letter and tell them how stupid their assmunch of a son is.

If any of you smarter 2gnt guys get your noses in here and go off on some theory that has nothing to do with this graph, I'll make you cry. You'll have to replace your tear-soaked keyboard, and you'll never want to post on 2gnt again.

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

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Replies to this topic

RE: Turbo efficiency comparison, Team

Team

DR1665, Mar-12-04 03:09 PM, #1

RE: Turbo efficiency comparison, mototool, Mar-12-04 03:12 PM, #2

RE: Turbo efficiency comparison, MrSlick, Mar-12-04 03:56 PM, #3

RE: Turbo efficiency comparison, mototool, Mar-12-04 03:58 PM, #4

RE: Turbo efficiency comparison, MrSlick, Mar-12-04 04:04 PM, #5

RE: Turbo efficiency comparison, MrSlick, Mar-12-04 04:13 PM, #6

RE: Turbo efficiency comparison, The1Bill, Mar-12-04 04:22 PM, #7

RE: Turbo efficiency comparison, MrSlick, Mar-12-04 04:25 PM, #8

RE: Turbo efficiency comparison, The1Bill, Mar-12-04 04:27 PM, #9

RE: Turbo efficiency comparison, MrSlick, Mar-12-04 04:28 PM, #10

RE: Turbo efficiency comparison, mototool, Mar-12-04 07:05 PM, #11

RE: Turbo efficiency comparison, The1Bill, Mar-12-04 07:34 PM, #12

RE: Turbo efficiency comparison, Matt_95tgs, Mar-12-04 08:27 PM, #13

RE: Turbo efficiency comparison, mototool, Mar-12-04 09:29 PM, #14

RE: Turbo efficiency comparison, The1Bill, Mar-12-04 10:42 PM, #15

RE: Turbo efficiency comparison, Global Ruler Of All Things

Global Ruler Of All Things

DarkOne, Mar-12-04 11:13 PM, #16

MotoTool, you're an ass..., Team

Team

JasonESi_T, Mar-13-04 04:35 AM, #17

DR1665	Mar-12-04 03:09 PM
Donating 2GNT member 14692 posts,

#66938, "RE: Turbo efficiency comparison"
In response to Reply # 0

HAIL MOTOTOOL! MASTER OF THE CUT AND PASTE.
I've already admitted I know jack shit about this subject and that's why I asked. I'll go back to my knitting now while I wait to learn something new. Would you prefer I knit you a pair of mittens or a hat that will actually fit your big fat stupid head? LOL.

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mototool	Mar-12-04 03:12 PM
Member since Sep 16th 2003 172 posts,

#66939, "RE: Turbo efficiency comparison"
In response to Reply # 1

Originally posted by DR1665
Would you prefer I knit you a pair of mittens or a hat that will actually fit your big fat stupid head?

You should knit me a sac warmer bitch.

That graph is total shit. Throw it away.

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

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MrSlick	Mar-12-04 03:56 PM
Member since Jul 22nd 2002 1120 posts,

#66942, "RE: Turbo efficiency comparison"
In response to Reply # 2

I never did like that graph...

Turbo efficiency is never measured against horsepower like that... totally meaningless...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Megasquirt powered 420A
Custom turbo system

http://www.ms-custom.com

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mototool	Mar-12-04 03:58 PM
Member since Sep 16th 2003 172 posts,

#66943, "RE: Turbo efficiency comparison"
In response to Reply # 3

Why don't you enlighten the rest of your 2gnt colleagues and tell them what turbo efficiency IS measured by? emoji

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

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MrSlick	Mar-12-04 04:04 PM
Member since Jul 22nd 2002 1120 posts,

#66944, "RE: Turbo efficiency comparison"
In response to Reply # 4

Originally posted by mototool
Why don't you enlighten the rest of your 2gnt colleagues and tell them what turbo efficiency IS measured by? emoji

Pressure ratio and airflow for starters... but you know that... emoji

That's what most turbo manufacturers use on their charts anyhow...

This thread could be fun... edumacation at it's best... bought to you by mototool... haha. emoji

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Megasquirt powered 420A
Custom turbo system

http://www.ms-custom.com

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MrSlick	Mar-12-04 04:13 PM
Member since Jul 22nd 2002 1120 posts,

#66948, "RE: Turbo efficiency comparison"
In response to Reply # 5

A little turbo info. for ya'll...

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/Turbo-compare.html

Quite usefull.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Megasquirt powered 420A
Custom turbo system

http://www.ms-custom.com

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The1Bill	Mar-12-04 04:22 PM
Donating 2GNT member 2292 posts,

#66949, "RE: Turbo efficiency comparison"
In response to Reply # 6

Doesn't look like a compressor map. Furthermore, the efficiency of a turbo lies more in the compressor wheel then the exhaust housing. Since the wheels are similar enough to fit in the same compressor housing, there should not be a huge difference in efficiency. All of this is moot, however, as the map is completely invalid, as it doesn't use valid variables (pressure ratio and airflow rate).

-=B-=

Dude, Boeing called. They want their wing back.

Dark0ne95: There is a butthole on that girl that his going to feel the wrath of 23 yeras of worldwide hate.
Me: Can I put that in my sig?
Dark0ne95: GO right fucking ahead.

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MrSlick	Mar-12-04 04:25 PM
Member since Jul 22nd 2002 1120 posts,

#66950, "RE: Turbo efficiency comparison"
In response to Reply # 7

Originally posted by The1Bill
Doesn't look like a compressor map. Furthermore, the efficiency of a turbo lies more in the compressor wheel then the exhaust housing. Since the wheels are similar enough to fit in the same compressor housing, there should not be a huge difference in efficiency. All of this is moot, however, as the map is completely invalid, as it doesn't use valid variables (pressure ratio and airflow rate). -=B-=

This is true if your talking TDO5H housings... but the HRC 20G does use the TDO6H housing... emoji

Still a nasty graph though... for a great company HRC does have some strange stuff on it's site...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Megasquirt powered 420A
Custom turbo system

http://www.ms-custom.com

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The1Bill	Mar-12-04 04:27 PM
Donating 2GNT member 2292 posts,

#66951, "RE: Turbo efficiency comparison"
In response to Reply # 8

Whoops... that's what happens when one posts before thinking. I stand by my statement that the variables used are invalid.

-=B-=

Dude, Boeing called. They want their wing back.

Dark0ne95: There is a butthole on that girl that his going to feel the wrath of 23 yeras of worldwide hate.
Me: Can I put that in my sig?
Dark0ne95: GO right fucking ahead.

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MrSlick	Mar-12-04 04:28 PM
Member since Jul 22nd 2002 1120 posts,

#66952, "RE: Turbo efficiency comparison"
In response to Reply # 9

Originally posted by The1Bill
Whoops... that's what happens when one posts before thinking. I stand by my statement that the variables used are invalid. -=B-=

I agree... emoji

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Megasquirt powered 420A
Custom turbo system

http://www.ms-custom.com

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mototool	Mar-12-04 07:05 PM
Member since Sep 16th 2003 172 posts,

#66959, "RE: Turbo efficiency comparison"
In response to Reply # 9

Originally posted by MototoolIf any of you smarter 2gnt guys get your noses in here and go off on some theory that has nothing to do with this graph, I'll make you cry.

Originally posted by The1BillDoesn't look like a compressor map.

Duh, really? Is that what it says it was? emoji

I take care in calling you "any of you smarter 2gnt guys" and I use the term loosely, but I did state that anyone poking their noses in here and going off on some theory totally unrelated to the subject would be crying by the end of the night. Now, The1Bill, because you're the first one, I'll go easy on you, but you totally went into some random tangent that has nothing to do with the graph posted, and has nothing to do with the subject. Shut up, you assmaster. You have no fucking idea what you're talking about.

Originally posted by The1BillFurthermore, the efficiency of a turbo lies more in the compressor wheel then the exhaust housing.

Hey, want a cookie? Where the fuck did the exhaust housing come into this equation? This is a pseudo compressor efficiency map, but it's total shit. Then, some cock like you had to butt into this thread and pull exhaust housings out of their ass, and it has nothing to do with anything in this thread.

Me: "do you like food?"
You: "I doth enjoy a good pie. Henceforth, testicles are cool, too!"

Where the fuck did testicles, or in this case exhaust housings, come into the thread? What the fuck do turbine housing have to do with this fake turbo efficiency map?

Originally posted by The1BillSince the wheels are similar enough to fit in the same compressor housing, there should not be a huge difference in efficiency.

You've been bending over in the community shower a bit too much, haven't you The1Bill? You're about trying to take it in the ass on this one, because you've demonstrated that yet again, you don't have a fucking clue as to what you're talking about... Oh, and you just dropped the soap again.

Originally posted by The1BillAll of this is moot, however, as the map is completely invalid

Hey, you're a genius! I only called it a "totally fucking stupid graph", thanks for agreeing with me there, rainbow warrior!

Next time you come into a thread, why don't you READ the damn post, so you don't look like a total "smart" moron? Thanks, you sphinctologist.

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

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The1Bill	Mar-12-04 07:34 PM
Donating 2GNT member 2292 posts,

#66960, "RE: Turbo efficiency comparison"
In response to Reply # 11

1) Get the lawnmower blade out of your ass. I don't care if John Deere put it there himself, take it out.

2) I brought up the exhaust housing because it is the telling part of the s16G. The fact that they are using a TD05H wheel in a 10 CM^2 housing instead of a 7 CM^2 or 8 CM^2 housing is the biggest difference between a S16G and a Large or small 16G. I am not sure what compressor wheel is being used, but the compressor housing is different. Therefore, they are trying to say that the 10 CM^2 exhaust housing is responisble for the difference.

So, you say that the graph is crap. I tell you how the graph is lying, and then go on to tell you how the chart itself does not use proper variables.

I think it's you who has the problem.

-=B-=

Dude, Boeing called. They want their wing back.

Dark0ne95: There is a butthole on that girl that his going to feel the wrath of 23 yeras of worldwide hate.
Me: Can I put that in my sig?
Dark0ne95: GO right fucking ahead.

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Matt_95tgs	Mar-12-04 08:27 PM
Donating 2GNT member 1246 posts,

#66961, "RE: Turbo efficiency comparison"
In response to Reply # 12
Mar-12-04 08:45 PM by Matt_95tgs

Originally posted by The1Bill
Since the wheels are similar enough to fit in the same compressor housing, there should not be a huge difference in efficiency.

This is a very not true statement. For example, go look at the compressor map for a t-25. Then go look at a map for Forced Performance's FPBig28. They use the same exact compressor housing, but the compressor maps are very different (I'd like to see a t-25 push a 2g into the 11's haha).

Originally posted by The1Bill
I brought up the exhaust housing because it is the telling part of the s16G. The fact that they are using a TD05H wheel in a 10 CM^2 housing instead of a 7 CM^2 or 8 CM^2 housing is the biggest difference between a S16G and a Large or small 16G.

The problem with this statement is that the exhaust housing has nothing to do with compressor efficiency. The only reason HRC went with the larger housing is to eliminate boost creep which has nothing to do with the topic of this post. The only possible relation between the exhaust housing and the compressor efficiency is how fast it spins the turbine wheel. However, in a compressor map, you can see how fast the wheel is spinning in relation to efficiency and air flow. He did warn you that anything off topic would receive a nice verbal spanking.... you sort of asked for it lol.

Originally posted by The1Bill
I am not sure what compressor wheel is being used, but the compressor housing is different. Therefore, they are trying to say that the 10 CM^2 exhaust housing is responisble for the difference.

Once again, the exhaust housing has no affect on compressor efficiency. The compressor housing and the compressor wheel are what determine how efficient a compressor is. Spin the compressor from 0 - 150k rpm with an electric motor and the efficiency of it will not change (ignoring heat generated in a turbine housing).

Originally posted by The1Bill
So, you say that the graph is crap. I tell you how the graph is lying, and then go on to tell you how the chart itself does not use proper variables. I think it's you who has the problem. -=B-=

First off, there is no doubt in my mind that mototool has problems emoji

. However you reference the exhaust housing as your reasoning for why the graph is lying when in reality, the exhaust housing has absolutely nothing to do with it. The reason that graph sucks is because it replaces boost pressure and pressure differential with horsepower. I'm sure they did it that way because most idiots out there dont know how to read a compressor map, so a nice simple little graph makes it easier on their simple minds.

One thing I noticed that looks out of whack is the flat efficiency slope of the 20g up to 400 hp. It looks like they are running it at the same boost level across the graph but the HP is increasing with the change in air flow. That way, it's opperating within its maximun efficiency range for the longest amount of time. They definately aren't running up to 30 lbs of boost haha.

Matt
1995 Eclipse GS
2.0L, S16g Turbo, 8 Injectors, 26psi

1998 Eclipse GSX
2.3L Stroker, AEM EMS Converted to Speed Density, FP3065 Turbo, 35psi , and so on...

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mototool	Mar-12-04 09:29 PM
Member since Sep 16th 2003 172 posts,

#66962, "RE: Turbo efficiency comparison"
In response to Reply # 12

1) It's a common misconception that John Deere tractors are strictly used for mowing lawns. Henceforth, you're incorrect in your assumption that I use my tractor for mowing. Your point is moot, it'd be more appropriate to say that I need to take the PTO drive out of my ass.

2) from hahn's website: "The graph above illustrates differences in turbocharger compressor efficiency."

Okay, that has nothing to do with your 10cm^2 bullshit. Your moot improper variables have now been assimilated.

2) (Continued) "So, you say that the graph is crap. I tell you how the graph is lying, and then go on to tell you how the chart itself does not use proper variables."

Go back and read. This is a compressor efficiency graph. No amount of turbine madness going on from you will ever change this graph, EVER. Way to go The1Bill

The only thing you said that was halfway intelligent and didn't throw a bunch of "some theory that has nothing to do with this graph" was this:

"that's what happens when one posts before thinking. I stand by my statement that the variables used are invalid."

The "invalid variables" used in the original COMPRESSOR EFFICIENCY CHART is the horsepower over efficiency part of the graph. So basically, the entire shitty hahn racegraph is invalid.

it should be efficiency over pressure ratio and air MASS, not flow, by the way.

Originally posted by Matt_95tgs
The problem with this statement is that the exhaust housing has nothing to do with compressor efficiency.

Bingo. Dino, give this guy a cookie! The1Bill, give this guy a blowjob! Dino, do you have another cookie for me? The1Bill, hell, if you're giving them out, blowjobs all around! emoji

Originally posted by Matt_95tgs
Once again, the exhaust housing has no affect on compressor efficiency.

Almost - it affects compressor wheel speed, which can change the efficiency, but you cleared that up here:

Originally posted by Matt_95tgs
The only possible relation between the exhaust housing and the compressor efficiency is how fast it spins the turbine wheel

Originally posted by Matt_95tgs
First off, there is no doubt in my mind that mototool has problems emoji

My problem is ingorance. You know it, I know it, and henceforth our variables about this subject are moot. Your life is moot. 2gnt is moot. moot.moot.moot.

Originally posted by Matt_95tgs
I'm sure they did it that way because most idiots out there dont know how to read a compressor map, so a nice simple little graph makes it easier on their simple minds.

Here's a new graph for everyone out there:

Mototool = Uber cool
The1Bill = 0wn3d.

Here's a graphical representation:

10- Mototool
9-- Dino
8--
7-- Humans
6-- Average Moderators
5-- Equal length exhaust manifold
4--
3-- Dumbasses
2-- Average 2gnter
1--
0--
-1-
-2-
-3-
-4- pie
-5-
-6-
-7- Wiseco pistons
-8-
-9- driftwood
-10-
--
--
-- GotTude Directional Exhaust Manifold
-- Tie between GotTude and Fast Fabrictations Intake Manifold
-- Motofool
-- The1Bill

Sorry, Microsoft Paint won't open up for me, and I have nowhere to host the actual graphical representation of this graph. Trust me though, because it's an actual graph, it must be true.

Mototool - The other white meat!

"He might just be more badass than Dino." -DR1665

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The1Bill	Mar-12-04 10:42 PM
Donating 2GNT member 2292 posts,

#66963, "RE: Turbo efficiency comparison"
In response to Reply # 14

I know that the exhaust housing has nothing to do with turbo efficiency. That is why I am saying that the graph is lying. I don't think that the compressor wheel or housing is radically different from any other 16G, else it would not be called a 16G. I brought up the exhaust housing because it is the biggest difference between the HRC turbo and the rest of them. Therefore, if the graph is showing a DRASTIC difference between the HRC 16G and any other 16Gs, it is lying.

Whatever. Go install a blade in your tractor and trim your bush, Tool.

-=B-=

Dude, Boeing called. They want their wing back.

Dark0ne95: There is a butthole on that girl that his going to feel the wrath of 23 yeras of worldwide hate.
Me: Can I put that in my sig?
Dark0ne95: GO right fucking ahead.

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DarkOne	Mar-12-04 11:13 PM
Donating 2GNT member 14955 posts,

#66964, "RE: Turbo efficiency comparison"
In response to Reply # 14

Originally posted by mototool
10- Mototool
9-- Dino
8--
7-- Humans
6-- Average Moderators
5-- Equal length exhaust manifold
4--
3-- Dumbasses
2-- Average 2gnter
-4- pie
-5-
-6-
-7- Wiseco pistons
-8-
-9- driftwood
-10-GotTude Directional Exhaust Manifold
-- Motofool
-- The1Bill

Look here you worthless fuckasses, don't fucking include me in your stupid waste-of-time calling out of other members. If you're going to fuck with someone, fuck with someone who has no idea what they're talking about. Don't call people out simply because they reply.

You're overstepping your boundaries. Stop. Now.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

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'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
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JasonESi_T	Mar-13-04 04:35 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3107 posts,

#66969, "MotoTool, you're an ass..."
In response to Reply # 0
Mar-13-04 04:41 AM by JasonESi_T

I know Dino locked this post, and it's going to remain that way after I'm done posting here, but I felt it necessary to comment.

MotoTool: I don't know what's gong on at home for you be such an ass where you feel the need to come in and deliver such a post (or callout to deliver your putrid stink), but you impress no one. Perhaps you really do think you impress others by your posts or condescension, but let me assure you, this is NOT the case.

Every time you post, and as much as that post may illuminate others as to your automotive knowledge, it also in turn substantiates what a total prick you really are. Congratulations!

So I just wanted to add this post, so you knew, how I (most likely many others) felt about your sorry bitch-ass. emoji

I know you're probably saying to yourself, "I could really give two shits about what this guy has to say." And that's fine.

But just understand, there's another person out there, that's not only not impressed by what an asshole you are, but in addition to that, there's another person in this world who knows that since you're such a fuck-tard here, that I doubt you have a single person in your life that gives two shits about you. (emphasis added)

Sorry to be so brutally honest, but I know you like to exist on this plane, so I decided to try to strive to your level...asswipe.

Have a nice day! emoji

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

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