Great Lakes Dragaway, April 27:

In its first outing, Len Ayala's New Street Neon ran 11.97 @ 121 MPH with his new Stage III Turbosystem!

That's with a stock computer, boys...no DFI, no AFC, just some trick new HRC parts and time-tested techniques...

Although this is the long-awaited arrival of the Stage III, we should mention that Len's car is 20G and FMIC equipped as well, which will from this point be known as Stage IV. The earlier Super 16G / DFI Stage IV will be dropped from the lineup. We will revamp the Staged lineup along with the release of this new product, and it will go like this for both Eclipse and Neon, whether it be a complete Turbosystem, or a Staged Upgrade:

Stage III: 15 PSI, Super 16G, intercooled (your choice of front or side mount), Stage III injectors and new Hahn FICU, in-tank pump
Stage IV: 15 PSI, Super 20G, FMIC intercooled (no SMIC), Stage IV injectors and new Hahn FICU, in-tank pump
Stage V: 25 PSI, Super 20G, FMIC intercooled (no SMIC), Stage V injectors, Hahn-ACCEL Gen VII DFI, external pump.

Of course, the injector and Hahn FICU upgrades will also work on cars equipped with our earlier external-pump setup.

Parallel testing has also been taking place on our own 98 RS. We expect the Stage III/IV/V Turbosystems and Upgrades to be available for Talon / Eclipse in June. Stay tuned...y'all are gonna LOVE this setup! In-tank pump, manageable fuel pressures, and an all-new Hahn FICU!

I know you have questions, and boy, do I have answers now! Ask away...

Life is good,
Bill Hahn Jr.

Bill Hahn Jr.
98 RS Turbo: 10.87 @ 136 MPH
HRC Stage V with N20
Nation's Fastest Street FWD 2G DSM
www.turbosystem.com

Sweet..

Can we get some details on this new FICU ? Some sort of piggyback fuel management computer? I had assumed you guys had something along these lines in development, as offering an AFC with 415's as a stage 3 just didn't seem like an adaquate solution for the conscientious HRC team.

Glad to hear your solution is now available!

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

What size are the stage 3 and stage 4 injectors, also can you give a ruff estimate of the price for the Hahn FICU if that is all that is needed extra for the already stage 2 eclipses.

99 RS-T
"New bottom end(8.6:1 w/long rods)"
Turbonetics 60-1/Portfueler/etc!!!!!

oh man i just bought parts for a 8-injector setup =(... but whats this thing with turbos people like me that use the external pump ? are you redoing that setup/routing or something?
and what size injectors are these bad boy?
Michael 99gs
HRC Stage 2 @12psi
Stage 3 process begins gathering parts for rebuild
2GNT Member #32

http://www.dreamwater.net/purplebeast

I must say, Bill, ITS ABOUT TIME! I know, I know, you will serve no stageIII before its time. I'm certain I can speak for many of us and say we appreciate the thorough testing you put your products through. Can't wait until June... any chance of more specifics before then?

Craig

Hey Bill, Just a suggestion why not make the stage 4/5 injectors the same size... If someone has stage 4, they would go with stage 5 eventually. Just my opinion though make the injectors the same 550 or so and drop stage 5. So stage 3 would be built internals and injetors to hold 15 psi and stage 4 would be able to hold 25 psi.

Boca Raton, Florida
95 Eclipse GS- sold
99 Eclipse GSX- 386awhp
98 Eclipse GS- sold
92 Prelude

I have the money.....say when. Though in a way I am running my own custom stage 3. But I want something that has been proven and tested. It's been a long time waiting Bill, but I'm sure it's worth it. I want FMIC, that the new fuel setup. Big question is, what size are the injectors for stage 3? what's the price range for the stage 3 and 4. Because if it's not much more, then I'll go with stage 4 thank you.

intricatelines.com/ -graphics and vinyls

"Tell them of us and say,
For their tomorrow,
We gave our today."
-- The Kohima Epitaph

Well, many questions! cool...

Dino, the new FICU will replace the Cartech fuel regulator in Stages III and IV. It's not available yet, but will be soon! We need to complete testing of this concept on the Mother RS before all details will be finalized and therefore divulge-able.

Injector sizes are also not yet finalized, but we are very close. Of course, we cannot determine pricing yet either, but again...very close.

We have found a way to use in-tank pumps for these applications safely. Mostly, it involves much lowered fuel pressures that do not require as robust a pump as the ACCEL in-line that has anchored our product line effectively for so many years.

Why an intank now? Easier to install, less components. Now that we have a way to make it work with the Stage III and IV, we can finally use an intank with confidence.

Can't make Stage IV and V injectors same size...even tho we have performed a small miracle in getting the stock ECU to function well in Stage III and IV, the 625cc injectors in a DFI Gen VII-equipped Stage V are just too big to control that way. That's why Stage V can handle 25-plus PSI boost, but Stage IV only 15.

I hate to be so coy for now, but in all reality, Len's car boomed right out of the box at the meet yesterday...we are pleased, but even surprised ourselves (hard to do!). As I knew you folks would get wind of it, I wanted to be the one to tell you. We will finish up the details on Eclipse applications and keep you posted.

Bill Hahn Jr.
98 RS Turbo: 10.87 @ 136 MPH
HRC Stage V with N20
Nation's Fastest Street FWD 2G DSM
www.turbosystem.com

Way to go, Bill!

It'll be interesting to see what this intermediate fuel controller will be able to accomplish and a true stage 3. As you've probably seen, there's been so many custom-made "stage 3's" out there,(i.e. SAFC's wqith large injectors, 8 injector setups, E-Manage...etc.) it'll be nice to have a true product to fill the void.

>Dino, the new FICU will replace the Cartech fuel regulator in
>Stages III and IV.

Bill, let me be the first to say, from all of us at 2GNT, that the Cartech will be sorely missed. (just kidd'in)

>Why an intank now? Easier to install, less components.

I agree, the intank will be a nice change coupled with lower fuel pressures. But you may want to keep in mind for the directions, sometimes the difficulties in removing that fuel tank assembly along with special attention to not overtightening those small nuts that screw into the studs bracing down the fuel tank assembly cover. Just speaking from experience here.

Way to go again. This was definitely a void in the marketplace to those who like the comfort of a tried and tested product from a great and reputable company like yours.

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

So what if we currently have a walbro pump with a Hrc inline accel pump, Will that do the trick with a stage V?

Thanks, Jason! It will be good, fun, and complete when ready. Thanks also for the tip on those nuts...I know what you mean, they can be fragile.

esseclipse: Yes. Any intank, combined with our HRC / ACCEL inline, will supply sufficient fuel for a Stage V setup.

Bill Hahn Jr.
98 RS Turbo: 10.87 @ 136 MPH
HRC Stage V with N20
Nation's Fastest Street FWD 2G DSM
www.turbosystem.com

Since you're here Bill. Those manifold studs you provide, they tend to get loosened and fall off. The down pipe....after getting it welded to the stock down pipe, I still haven't been able to separate the down pipe from the mani, and I need to change that gasket bad. But I love the HRC kit. June? That's 2 months away, but take the time you need because in the end it's your products that has been tested and proven. Keep em coming Bill

Veasna

intricatelines.com/ -graphics and vinyls

"Tell them of us and say,
For their tomorrow,
We gave our today."
-- The Kohima Epitaph

What will stage III's fpr rise-rate ratio be...also,you say the FICU will replace the craptech fmu, so is the FICU a package such as a fuel and ignition computer(piggy back) and also new fmu? thanks jason
p.s. its about time (mean it in a nice way..sort of)

HRC/Custom Stage 3 bla,bla
13.6 @106@12psi
www.Flawlessmotors.com

>What will stage III's fpr rise-rate ratio be...also,you say
>the FICU will replace the craptech fmu, so is the FICU a
>package such as a fuel and ignition computer(piggy back) and
>also new fmu?

Well, you know my approach to the Cartech FPR issues...most of them are due to user misunderstanding of intended function, rather than inconsistent operation (see previous posts where I address these issues in exhaustive detail, or email me for more info). Like anything else on the Internet, all one needs is a small-percentage handful of highly-vocal 'issues' to lead to an undeserved blanket condemnation. Don't give in to the 'wolf-pack' attitude on this stuff, peeps, I give you guys so much more credit than that! I've not been present here for a while to combat those negative angles, but I am back now, so be ready for heated discussion while I attempt to 'turn back' any similar misperceptions I come across.

As for the new equipment: The specific details you request have yet to be finalized, so please bear with me!

>p.s. its about time (mean it in a nice way..sort of)

And I gladly answer in a nice way (sort of)! With many different systems and cars under my tutelage, and a very high set of standards, we took our sweet time to get this just so. It will be worth the wait!

BHjr



>
>HRC/Custom Stage 3 bla,bla
>13.6 @106@12psi
>www.Flawlessmotors.com

Bill Hahn Jr.
98 RS Turbo: 10.87 @ 136 MPH
HRC Stage V with N20
Nation's Fastest Street FWD 2G DSM
www.turbosystem.com

UUMmmm gen 7. It's a good thing you are about to get it out because I am about to drop kick this gen 6 into the next state.

At least your not going to make me buy new injectors.

I can't wait.
Brian

DSMRoadster: do me a favor...to keep this thread on topic, email us any tech questions like this which are unrelated to Stage III - V.
use tech@turbosystem.com

Thanks for your interest!
BHjr

Bill Hahn Jr.
98 RS Turbo: 10.87 @ 136 MPH
HRC Stage V with N20
Nation's Fastest Street FWD 2G DSM
www.turbosystem.com

Will the Gen 7 be ready before june or is that when we should expect it to be avaible. I want one bad....I am ready for a stage V.

hey Bill, have a few questions for you.

i thought the stage 5 kit was going to be a 25g turbo? or is that just for the race car?
have you looked at using the AEM EMS? why do you like the Gen 7 DFI better? with the AEM EMS you can move the rev limiter so i was thinking with the bigger turbo's it would be better to have.
have the stage 3 run on video? i'd like to see the run
also have you done anything about the couplings, etc. i know there's a lot of problems when hitting higher boost about them popping off.

Matt
a.k.a. bustrblue1
R.I.P '95 Eclipse GS
intake, exhaust, push button starter, painted interior, custom short shifter, and one shiny car!
http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=230275
^ shows what happened to my baby

I cant wait to see what this FICU does. I am in need of something like this right now! I was about to get a sfmu but I may wait to see what Bill has up his sleeve. Good Job Mr. Hahn

Dave
05 Ford F150 SuperCrew FX4

That's great to hear Bill. Sounds like that FICU is one piece of nifty electronics.

One quick question is since this is only for Stage III-V does that mean that stage 1-2 will still be using the Cartech or will there be FICU upgrade for those people that will still wanting to boost 8psi but not wanting to use the Cartech (maybe possible with injector upgrade?)?

-"Easy Mac"
05 Mazda RX-8 (RR8 #88)
99 Eclipse RS 398whp & 372lb-ft

Oh do tell us more. I just hope the FICU is not another mystery black box.

-K-

Does the stage 3 still come with the upgraded pistons, rods, and all that good stuff?

I can't wait to read more about this FICU. Hmmm...

___________
Kon C

"Sometimes, a man has to do what a man has to do."

>Oh do tell us more. I just hope the FICU is not another mystery
>black box.

The "CU" part would suggest to me that it's going to be an active unit, as opposed to a passive device like the black box. I'd guess it's going to be a device located between the ECU and the Injectors which alters the ECU's control. Maybe?

It should be noted, I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Edit: It'd be neat if we could interface with it via a serial interface and a PC like the EIC...

Old School 2GNTer
Now rockin an 05 SRT-4

"I know you have questions, and boy, do I have answers now! Ask away...

"Life is good,
"Bill Hahn Jr.

Yes I am asking questions, but not really getting any answers...What else can you tell us about the stage III that is finished or atleast what exactly the FICU is going to do and be capable of(besides horsepower results).....Alot of people have already made there own stage III's that work really well and might not be intrested in your stage III. You guys have been talking about stage III for a while( and was the main reason why I bought your kit in the 1st place, because it seemed it could easily be upgraded.) So far we have all been on or own and (dont get me wrong)I would most likely buy your upgrade, as long as it seems worth the money. But its been so long and it still seems like it might be a while....thanks jason

HRC/Custom Stage 3 bla,bla
13.6 @106@12psi
www.Flawlessmotors.com

I am sure we will just have to wait and see what develops.

I am curious as how I can use it on my system if he will let us guys that have different/custom kits take advantage of a piggy back system that will control larger injectors with a 1:1 regulator.

I am glad to see that our cars have not been forgotten.

Could someone sticky this post at the top. I would do it....but cannot.

97 RS(PTE SC-61, Built Long Block, Electromotive Tec 3)It's Here!

Bill,
Im sure that we are all curious as to a time frame that you looking at? Or maybe a time frame were we can get more information. Like what the capabilities of the FICU are and if we can purchase it seperate, and more information period really.

Nick

Excellent and inspiring interest!

I'll address some specific questions first, then follow with a more detailed description of the new products.

bustrblue2: Well, let's just call 25G Stage VI then! I am sure that anyone who would like to go there can entice us to hook them up with the parts soon. In all actuality, once our RS is done with Stage III / IV development, on goes the Gen VII and the 25G! At the same time, to accomodate the big turbo, we will build larger air piping (2.5" pre-IC, 3.0" post-IC), and a bad-ass downpipe. We can use our regular FMIC (it's pretty good up to about 700 HP), but with larger inlet/outlet for the bigger pipes. A larger Ford 5.0 throttle body will be added to the stock intake, and BIG injectors, perhaps a staged set of eight (four primary, four secondary).

Once we have that done, we'll figure out what it will cost to reproduce, and if there are enough takers, we will build 'em! It wont be cheap, tho! We will also hook up existing HRC turbosystem owners with the same parts, so they can step up. A few years ago I did not imagine that there would be a potential market for such a big-azz Stage VI system, but you folks have gotten hungrier and hungrier, and today I feel we may even be able to sell a few of these killer parts.

DFI is simply the most effective setup going based on the capability of its technology. Its approach is unlike any system before, in that it actually develops a volumetric model of your engine based upon easy to enter facts you provide. It uses patented pulse-width calculation technology that surpasses anything in its price range; it is the first truly affordable unit to use near-OEM processing strategies. What all this means to you guys is unsurpassed driveability and safe, powerful fueling, built-in datalogging and even a wide-band option. We are working out the details, and once complete, Stage V systems will live again!

The only coupling probs we are aware of are the rubber elbows under higher than intended boost. Stages III and higher (anything over 10 PSI) will feature silicone elbows. These will also be available seperately.

Avenger: The new FICU concept will eventually 'trickle down' to Stages I and II. In the meantime, we will also offer seperately all the components to upgrade to Stage III, IV or V (as they all become available).

thegame: Stage III or higher systems can be ordered either with or without internals, depending upon customer need and preference.

Collente: Stage III and IV should be ready by June, Stage V by July, and Stage VI after I've run 10's with no NOS in the RS!

The new fuel system concept in Stage III and IV is actually twofold. The first part is the new HRC FICU (fuel injection control unit), which is the mechanical fuel system portion; it's essentially our take on the ultimate concept of a rising rate fuel regulator. I've tried to make it as advanced as I can, and early results are very promising for power coupled with good driveability.

The electronic portion is simple, but effective...and not quite ready enough to describe in any detail. Keep in mind, the main reason im 'going public' at this time is only because Len went and ran 11's first time out with it, and as he did this in front of a crowd, I knew you guys would hear soon enough! Yes, his car hauls, but we are still tailoring the low speed stuff, and have to also reproduce it all in DSM 2GNT form. But we are on a tear right now, and I expect the development rate to remain brisk now until done!

420A4ME4EVA,
BHjr

Bill Hahn Jr.
98 RS Turbo: 10.87 @ 136 MPH
HRC Stage V with N20
Nation's Fastest Street FWD 2G DSM
www.turbosystem.com

Bill, sounds good man... I'm aboard as I'm looking for other options besides the 8 injector setup a few are using here.

Old School 2GNTer
Now rockin an 05 SRT-4

Woot wooot! Finally. I just hope the prices are not crazy. Not everyone can drop $4k+for a new setup. Keep the prices down and we'll keep the morale high. Thanks.

Why is the stage IV only 15psi? Why isn't the DFI used in the stage IV? I was planning on going stage IV....should I plan on going stage V now and do I have to upgrade to a 20G?

Stage IV will be limited to 15 PSI due to it still using a stock PCM. We have had very few takers for Stage IV systems under the previous setup (16G, DFI), so we decided to discontinue it to make room for a 20G / FMIC setup that does not also require DFI.

But dont fear...the same GEN VII will also work on the 16G version, should you wish to go that way. We can rough in the program using our Stage V tables as a basis, and you should be able to fine-tune it from there.

>and Stage VI after I've run 10's with no NOS in the
>RS!

i LOVE that quote!! hehe

Matt
a.k.a. bustrblue1
R.I.P '95 Eclipse GS
intake, exhaust, push button starter, painted interior, custom short shifter, and one shiny car!
http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=230275
^ shows what happened to my baby

I guess my question is this:

We still don't have a base setup to run 15psi on the street. Granted I have a star system but I use you guys for my fuel/ignition stuff, why, because no one knows it better then you guys. What I want to know is, can you give us a simple idea as to what psi we can run on the street without having to go to a DFI or another piggyback?

For instance, what injectors do you recommend? What kind of rising rate FMU are we looking at? Electronics, what ones are involved to make it work?

A lot of these questions I get asked on tuners.com a lot, and it's hard for me to answer them because there are so many varances and answers. Can we get a good idea as to what it takes. BTW, can you tell us what it takes for the following turbo's:

Hahn Big 16G
Garrett t3/t4
Hahn 20G

Thanks for your time and continuing support of 2gnt.com!!!

N/T Wiseman DSMTuners.com
N/T Guru Southeast DSM

I do not think anyone could answer those questions as you wrote them.

Way too general IMHO. I think you already pointed that out in your post.

T3/T4 can be many many diferent turbos. That is almost like saying my car has a 4 cylinder, so how much power am I making. Only you are talking flow rates and different psi levels/rpms. I really think this subject is better for a different topic.

All fuel/ignition control systems are piggy back in their nature. If they retain the stock ecu, then that is what you have.

There are quite a few engine management systems on the market, but nothing works as well as a stock ecu for driving when not boosting and vehicle functions.

I know I did not answer your question, but if you search in the archives, you will find numerous piggy back solutions using different fmu setups, fuel controllers and ignition devices.

Where we lack in our ecu is the ability to run large 440-500cc injectors with a 1:1 rising rate regulator. Factory turbo cars already have this built into their ecu and we do not. My guess is HRC has built a device that does this for us along with the unit controlling our crazy spark advance at part throttle. When under boost and part thorttle, our spark advance is waaaaaaaaay to high. We just want what the turbo guys have had for years. But we do not want a mas air sensor(if that is possible). I do have a feeling the device is going to use something to calculate the amount of air so it can match the right amount of fuel automatically. We are now adding the air and are guessing on how much fuel to add in the correct places to get the proper AFR. This is tough.

Sorry I did not answer your question. I am rebuilding my motor now and will most likely use what MR. Hahn is going to market. If the price is reasonable, then I will be headed in his direction. If it is too high for what it does for me, then I am going with an Electromotive Tec 2(used).

Cannot wait to hear how this develops.

97 RS(PTE SC-61, Built Long Block, Electromotive Tec 3)It's Here!

This is great news, I'm glad to see this coming out. I would love to see the details on the fuel spec and new DFI set-up. It's a great way to adjust and the new generation is suppose to add a lot of features. I personally would stay away from the AEM EMS, I would rather go with someone who has been doing it for a longer period of time when it comes down to computer controls.

Hahn will be getting a call when I need new injectors in the near future, and I'm close enough to go pick them up (:P to those not close by).

Deano, do you have the TEC-2 already? I've always liked the Electromotive products and the TEC-3 looks to be even better than the TEC-2, and just as friendly.

*edit* Bill, I'm trying to put together a trip to Rt. 66 towards the end of the month for one of the test and tunes. I'd love to see you come out to play with your toys!



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

I know there's still some work to be done, but my only question is, out the top of your head Bill...what MAY be the price to upgrade to the new stage 3 from a stage I, Can't wait til JUNE!!!

so this new set will help the timing issues?
I'm running 16psi.
on 440cc
msd-dis2
s-fmu
and the car seems to run better then ever with the bigger injectors even not under aload,maybe a tad rich though.

Hahn,Wiseco,Eagle,MSD,TurboXs
K&N,mopar,AEM,Greddy,Vortex,apexi and a bunch of other stuff..

Is it possible to use your new items on a custom or STAR set up?
I have the Star Stage II and Im rebuilding the bottom end in a few weeks, after that I didnt know what I was going to do until I read this thread

I just want to be sure using a missing link or having a larger turbo wont have any adverse effects.

Guys, try to stay on topic. Let this cover only questions and information about the various new stages HRC is offering. If you have any specific questions or problems with HRC, contact them by email to discuss. If you have a general question that does not directly pertain to the new stages offered by HRC, start a new topic.

05 Mazda RX-8
06 Lotus Elise

Do the included internals lower the compression at all? or for those of us with forged internals already be able to for go the one provided?

I am eager for the stage IV !!!

Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger.

my reply IS on topic, I want to see if there is a way for me to use these future upgrades with my setup. If it does, I'll buy it, if it doesnt I'll look towards other solutions.

I went star because it was more affordable to me at the time. I make better money now so I want to expand my setup wiuth hahns technology (if possible) how much more on topic can you be?

Not you. I meant a lot of the other posts. It is a general statement not directed to anyone in particular.

05 Mazda RX-8
06 Lotus Elise

Any news on this?

Yea.... any news? When is this coming out? I need more boost!!!

i third that. i want detailed info on the new technology and a price. i want to know everything about this kit. i want to be able to qoute all the pieces from memory.....you get the picture.

___________________________________________

I applaud HRC on the new fuel setups and the updating of staged kits. But I think some of the basics should be looked at...

Exhuast mani bolts...arg!
Downpipe...one/two piece that bolt together...please please please.

__________________________________________
~Chris
03 SRT-4