when it comes to money saver turbo kits for our cars, why dont many people consider the stock exhaustmani/14b combo? if your ehm heh "lucky" like me, you dont have any ac so there is plenty of room. sure only the two bolts from the stock exhaust mani hold the turbo on, but from what i remember reading, it wasnt too bad. find a cheap exhaust shop to throw together some custom chargepipes and a downpipe, boom you have a turbo kit. search all day, you'll never find too much about this here. i am hoping for some input from others, i have so many questions left and i am gauranteed to attempt this asap so id like to be as prepared as possible. its been done, i forgot who but it was on his avenger. (i did have quite a notebook file of pasted text from this message board but i lost it in a computer that died several months back so hopefully this will help condense most of the neccessary info into one thread) if i get this done ill do a homemade 2gnt turbo kit guide forsure if somebody is willing to host it.

i was planning on doing this a few months back and had acquired a 14b, 30lb injectors, a vortech sfmu, bov, gauges, 1g ic, but had to sell it all. the fuel system was installed with the exception of a new fuel pump, but i had to undo all that work to sell the parts.

now if i could just figure out how to cut corners on the fuel side of things. the 255 fuel pump and ford 30lb injectors arent too hard to acquire, but could somebody tell me a good alternative to the vortech sfmu. if i was just using a 14b on low boost (i guess ill bend the wastegate arm till its at 7-8psi), would a standard 12:1 vortech fmu or something work? those are only a hundred bucks or less used. i dont have a very clear understanding of the fuel math for our setups and the outcome of 30lbs injectors, a 255 high pressure fuel pump, and a fpr with specific boost/fuel ratio. what do i need for safe low boosting? also as far as the fuel system goes, i really dont feel like ordering and waiting for a fuel cut defender, can i toy around with "check valves" like the honda guys? if so, what are they and how would i go about doing that. i have a 96rs, im ob2.

keep in mind that this is just my attempt at getting a decent setup going on my car asap. in short time i plan on replacing with things like alain's manifold if he still makes them, a sfmu, 16g, starion ic, etc etc to end up with one very nice setup. within the next couple weeks i have to replace timing belt/tensioner/tensioner and idler pulleys/water pump and some seals, so i cant afford the more expensive parts at this time.

id also like to acquire as many parts as i can locally to hurry things along. if anybody in the san francisco bay area would like to sell me any of the parts ive mentioned in this post and any of the other neccesary parts, please let me know.

im sure ill come up with more to add eventually, thank you guys so much for any replies.

It's been done, yeah. His name is WheatKing.

Now, i can't speak for Dave, BUT - When asked, he has stated that no, he wouldn't do it again. Why? Sure, it works, but the stock 2GNT manifold is VERY directional, and a 14b on it would spool nearly instantly. However, air is easy to come by. Fuel, however, makes for a hard road. Sure, 310cc/min with a SFMU and perhaps an SFAC for fine tuning would work, but where is the upgrade path? The simple fact is that people do not like to walk the path least taken. They want the trail already beaten down - they want it all already laid out.

Sure, some people will take the road less traveled and some will do well. Some will do badly. Is it possible to turbocharge the 2GNT in your backyard? Sure. Is it possible to backyard turbo your 420A with consistant, repeatable results? No.

So, frankly, sure, it can be done and has been. I don't mean to demean your efforts as i didn't try that hard to turbocharge my car, but those that know it can be done have done it, and are doing it. Those that can't, we just bought kits and we're doing it too with half the effort.

I respect the fact that you've determined that these things will work, and i highly respect the fact that you're willing to venture out on a limb and try it, but anyone who has the knowledge to turbocharge their 420A without a kit will do it, and i'm pretty sure they won't be looking on the 2gnt.com forum for acceptance of their ideas and theories. if you think you can do it, do it. But don't pretned that it'll be the solution to the average Joe's horsepower needs.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

Im actually making a turbo kit with a 14b right now. Im planning on running about 6 psi until rebuild. Assuming you take care of the placement issues with the stock manifold, you can probably do what youre looking at.

People seem to flame 14bs, but theyre really not bad at all. Thier flow rate is 405cfm, compared to a 16g at 505cfm. I dont think that makes such a big difference if youre running 6psi. Plus, as long as you have the flange configured for the Mitsu 7cm (which is what the 14b uses) you can easily upgrade to a 16g, 18g, 20g, or any other mitsubishi hybrid. Its just cheaper to get a 130$ turbo than a 600$ one. I got mine for free, thats why Im using it. When I rebuild, I might upgrade to a big 16 or a 20G, but thats way in the future. If you really want to save more money, you can just use the stock injectors. I actually did the fuel calculations for 6psi on stock injectors, and it turns out that max fuel pressure at full boost should be around 100psi at 85% duty cycle. Thats not too bad on stockers, they can handle that. Save more money, skip the intercooling. Its always good to intercool, but for such low boost you can just forget the intercooler and run right from the turbo to the intake mani. Saves you money on the intercooler piping too. Technically, you dont have to use a SFMU. You can get a cheap FMU from Ebay for about 50$. Do the fuel calcs, and figure out your rising rate. Then get the generic FMU with the proper rising rate. You will probably run rich, but thats okay. Save more money, dont get a 255 hipress. You can run 6 psi on a 190lph pump, although it wont give you much room for improvement. Other than all the wonderful lines you have to run, you basically have your kit right there.

Basically for safe low boosting, you need to make sure that you have enough fuel. With stock injectors, a correct FMU, and a 190lph you should be able to run 6psi nonintercooled just fine. But get the missing link. Its 50$ but its very important, and plus you dont want to blow you MAP and have to spend another 150$ on a new one. Im sure that the ECU will also freak out if it sees boost and start throwing around timing and a bunch of other wonderful stuff, and I really wouldnt wanna screw around with that.

Overall, sure this is possible. You can make a cheap kit with what you have. Would I personally do it? No. Id rather get something done right the first time. But good luck on what you plan to do, and keep us informed. Were always here to help you out. If you need help with the fuel calcs email me. And if I messed something up, someone yell at me

NeoVB
2005 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS
1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS TURBO
1995 Mitsubishi Galant ES DOHC TURBO
1991 Eagle Talon TSI AWD

well, honestly, it's worth every bit of the $100 it costs to get bigger injectors. 100+ psi of fuel press is A LOT. it just pays off so much more to spend the extra 100. lower egts, and overall less stress on the fuel system. imo. not to mention the ability to run more boost, and not have to here the inline.

- Dan

HRC Stage 2|30lb injectors|S-FMU|Walbro255HP|AFX UDP|B&M Short Shifter w/ Symborski Shift Kit|Rear Strut Bar|Power Slot Rotors|more...

>I respect the fact that you've determined that these things
>will work, and i highly respect the fact that you're willing
>to venture out on a limb and try it, but anyone who has the
>knowledge to turbocharge their 420A without a kit will do it,
>and i'm pretty sure they won't be looking on the 2gnt.com
>forum for acceptance of their ideas and theories. if you
>think you can do it, do it. But don't pretned that it'll be
>the solution to the average Joe's horsepower needs.

I just want to say this a very accurate statement that anyone contemplating a custom install shoud consider. I custom turbocharged my 420A not to save money, but because the available pre-fabbed kits all suck, IMO. It is a difficult and tedious task, for sure.

first let me clear my concious like everybody else by starting off with the "im not trying to be rude but..." bs. second of all, i'm sorry but the "if your doing a custom turbo install you should have enough technical knowledge to handle all the shit yourself" words of wisdom are getting a little old. i guess i should have been more specific and just threw out the idea of helping others along the way. heres the specifics:

where can i get all the info about wheatking's experience with the 14b custom install. i think i remember him having a site or something, is it still around?

and the fuel system, i would still like to know if anybody has messed around with the standard fmu's like the vortech that comes with a 12:1. thanks to the guy above who posted about helping me with the fuel setup. i may just go ahead and get a vortech sfmu and set it up like last time, it was easy as hell to tune. but reguardless, i would love to have some imput as far as all my fuel tuning goes.

I will be starting this project very shortly once again, and it will get done reguardless of mishapps. call me crazy but i just prefer the "learn from others mistakes" sort sensibility. If you happen to dissagree with my reasoning for this thread, just ignore and let it be filled with valuable info. I dont expect worthless comments in return for my efforts. Flamming or not, leave your bitching for the kid who takes the "ok guys give me the list and directions for this shit, im going to pep boys in five minutes" approach.
and yes im done with the quotes now, thanks for your time.

I told you it's tedious and time consuming and Dino was just throwing in his two cents. They're only opinions man... it's 4-20, chill out & smoke a J, bro. Here's some specific info for your original questions...

You CAN use the stock manifold. I believe the 14b fits with a slight modification to the DP flange. You need to slightly move the bolt holes. Hold the turbo up to the manifold and see how close it fits. You'll only be able to use 2 bolts to mount the turbo without re-welding/modifying the flange.

You can use the standard FMU but like one of Dino's points, where's the upgrade path? You should definetely use an S-FMU as you did before, as it's more versatile than the standard FMU. You can use an FMU and use corbins fuel setup instructions to determine which disk you need.

You can use check valves "like the honda guys do". You can find most of what you'll need for a standard check valve at your local fish store. Synapse Engineering make a low-cost, high performance valve called the Missing Link. You can get it for $55 at group5motorsports.com. That's not much more than you'd spend at the fish store for a thangled mess of hoses/valves that would produce in-consistant results. You can do a simple search at google.com to find instructions.

BTW, the normal FMU doesnt only come in 12:1. You can get them in 4:1, 6:1, 8:1, 10:1, and 12:1. Check out the vortech site, they have all the info on there. But I would definately recommend getting the SFMU. You can cut corners to save money on a lot of things, but when it comes to fuel you should do it right the first time or it will yield very costly results. I got all the fuel numbers on the stock injectors, so if you need them let me know.

NeoVB
2005 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS
1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS TURBO
1995 Mitsubishi Galant ES DOHC TURBO
1991 Eagle Talon TSI AWD

yeah you guys are right i rethought it and its not too much of a pain to just get another sfmu, and im sure id end up getting another one sooner or later anyhow when it was time to progress.
dont worry im not looking for the ultimate headache, i just wanted to get started and i had a feeling i could get my hands on a standard fmu with a specific disc for whatever my specific fuel needs would end up being.

and as for the exhaust bolts, yeah i know its half ass and it only 2 bolts from the exhaust mani are available to bolt up to the four bolt patern on the turbo. but one again, this is just to get me started, shortly after the setup, i will get the correct manifold hopefully from alain because he's helped me out with questions when i first started looking into this.

my plan is as follows, get the 14b, 1g ic, 1g bov, both oil lines, redo the fuel system exactly how i had it before. bolt the turbo on, run the oil lines and get it running safley. im not using the coolant lines, they will be plugged. i already have figured out where i would mount the ic, down there by the front drivers side wheel, where others have done before. then drive to my local favorite shop with a filter on my tb and a piece of flex pipe exhaust piping clamped onto the exhaust/o2 mani from the turbo straight down to the ground. they have already agreed to custom make my intake piping and downpipe. then i pull the car out, rig up the vacume lines, and start tuning. ill have to get it to not go past 6 or 7psi. and i think im going to have the fuel system tuned at another shop immediately for sound of mind that it is perfect, or as perfect as possible.

Thats a good idea about the downpipe, I just may do the same thing youre doing.

NeoVB
2005 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS
1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS TURBO
1995 Mitsubishi Galant ES DOHC TURBO
1991 Eagle Talon TSI AWD

Yeah Wheatking had that setup. I'm not sure if he was intercooled, but he had the 14b on the stock mani. I don't think he had problems mounting it with 2 bolts. You'll have to live without air conditioning, it's right in the path of the downpipe. A good benifit from mounting it that way is it alows for an extremely cheap downpipe - You can use the 14b o2 housing. That gives you the o2 bung and the exhuast headed downward. His downpipe from there was just a big stretch of flex tube. You can get a 5 foot stretch of 2-1/4" stainless steel flex tubing from C.J.Shitney for $26 http://www.jcwhitney.com/productnoitem.jhtml?CATID=14722&BQ=jcw2


95 Eclipse RS : 5 speed
Jeep TB writeup - http://www.dimensia.com:81/jimbo/JeepTBfor2gnt.html

I should have never done this...

Does it work.. yes..
Is it a good way of doing it .. no..
Am I sick of explaining how it did it.. yes..

Buy a kit.

Also.. the downpipe wasn't a flex section.. it was a 45 degree press bent exhaust pipe.. along with a rewelded stock downpipe.

The stock manifold was great, except it only had 2 bolts and it put the turbo in a bad spot..

Again i'll be the asshole and tell you that if you know what your doing, do it and stop asking questions.. and if your unsure of how to hookup a turbo, BUY A KIT.

If I have to explain to you how a wastegate works, why shimming the wastegate to achieve 6psi is bad, how to setup a fuel system, how to adjust your FPR, how to put on the downpipe, how to put in a talon SMIC, or how to hook up the signal lines for the wastegate/bov, your totally unprepared to install a DIY turbo. Get a kit and then on your NEXT car that you want to turbo, do it yourself cause then you won't have to ask these questions.

-- WheatKing

-- DSM Junkie --
4 - 1G talons
4 - Avenger/sebrings
1 - Jeep to tow em home when they break