Sups Guys,

Just wondering if you guys have the part # for the thicker MLS head gasket for our cars, I know that this was discussed a few months ago but I can't seem to find the topic. Also, there was a topic on shims did anyone ever find any info on that? I'm plannign on changing my head gasket, timing belt soon so while my head is apart I might as well add those. It's also to help out Tommyboy who's temporarily down for now. Thanks for the help ppl!

P.S. Ray, yes yes I know you got the answers I need but you are at work until 10 in the morning and when I call you'll probably be sleeping, so hit me up later or i'll call you!

Don't have the stock Eclipse anymore
Just a stock Gsr now,

hell yeah guys I need that part # for a thicker MLS gasket I hate being down now I learned my lesson boosting 16 pounds and can someone explain shims too me?()speedlabx2000@aol.com

http://members.home.net/xtatdsm



there is no number for a thicker MLS head gasket, just cause they don't make any. I think the only way to get a thicker head gasket is by going with an after market ones.
why would you want to go with a thicker head gasket tho? there is no reason to do that unless you are running turbo or nos.

Adel

Here are the answers.
Shims $46.00 From me(J/K) Nemo at CNNP or I can get um
FACTORY MLS head gasket # 05014131AC it is at .20 thick
That with the Shim (.20 thick) will bring you to .40= roughly 8:5.1 compresion.
Tommy as you know lower compresion will allow you to run higher boost, so long as the fuel system you or anyone else has will allow it. This is realy only for those who are not built, or like Stan with higher wanting to go a tad lower since he is going turbo now. (Stan your stuff will be there by Friday).
I order all my parts from Tallahassee Mitsubishi, they know their S&%^%# as well as the aftermarket scene, so they can usally answer questions most dealer parts Dept cant. Saun or Jerry are the 2 to ask for and be sure to get your DSM club member discount. Mickey I am never to buisy for my Boise! even if my wife did tell you off. J/K
SEE YA!!!!!!!!!!!!MWC





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thanks MWC I will give them a call Tallhasee mitsuI'm kinda hesitant on the shims though I need my car up by SAT I hope they can shipp UPS

you know what MWC I just checked out the part # on my receipt from the mitsu dealer here in lancaster and it matches the number you posted so this # 05014131ac head gasket will lower my compression right just wanted to double check all I need now r the shims ,the head gasket won't get here till tommorrow anywayz

hey tommyboy, nice profile signature. look familiar? looks nice bro.

http://www.geocities.com/blue2gnt

1995 Eclipse GS - HRC Stage 2 - Retired.
2004 350z Enthusiast / 2008 Nissan Versa SL

I admit it I bit you bro cause your picz are hella tight

>you know what MWC I just
>checked out the part #
>on my receipt from the
>mitsu dealer here in lancaster
>and it matches the number
>you posted so this #
>05014131ac head gasket will lower
>my compression right

That alone will not, but it is the best "factory" gasket we have available. You would need to ad a shim to bring it to lower compresion.



just wanted
>to double check all I
>need now r the shims



One shim is all you need


>,the head gasket won't get
>here till tommorrow anywayz



Cool. let me know if you want to do the shim thing. I can pick it up for anyone but there will be a small fee. (shipping)


Good luck bro!
SEE YA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!MWC


As far as the other post about why spend all the cash on lower compresion pistons?
Simple!
It is a matter of common sense when one makes the dissision to go this route.
If you say for example have a motor that has 20-50K miles on it and the compresion as it is is solid, then instead of building a motor that does not need to be rebuilt just yet, you would be right for this.
But if you had 60-100K then the answer would be a little differant.
In no way shape or form does this match the advantage to building, it is just to "temp" fix the compresion situation until you either blow your motor or have time to save up the cash to build one. I look at it this way, if you need to do a head gasket anyways and are turbo why not spend the extra $50 on a quick fix. But that is me. Remeber this shim will solve the compresion issue but not the bearings/rings/or pistons they will still fail under too much boost. Hope that helps.
SEE YA!!!!!!!!!!!MWC


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Is the MLS thicker than the stock headgasket. What compression would a MLS gasket and JE 8.8:1 pistons leave me with.



http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1651636&a=12697756

'95 Eclipse Gs
AEM Cams Gears
Custom Cams
Greddy Exaust
75hp NOS (currently)
Crane Ignition
HRc Stage 2 Turbo kit (Being installed now)
JE Pistons (Being installed now)
Crower rods (Being installed now)
5 Anvle valve job (Being installed now)
portmatched intake and throttle body (Being installed now)

Hey guy's can you explain how shims work? I'm going turboed soon and want to lower my comp a little. i planning on cooper or the mls with shims.

96 RST: Star Performance stag
05 scion xb: bolt ons
92 nissan 240sx
07 toyota sienna

LAST EDITED ON 24-Apr-01 AT 11:09 AM (PST)

So why do people spend lots of money buying lower compresion pistons when all they have to do is get a thicker head gasket? Is it not as reliable? How much boost can you safely run with the 8:5:1 compression (stage 1)(stage 2)? Would the fuel systems that come with the kits be sufficient for the larger boost pressure? Lots of questions but I need to learn as much as I can from you turbo gurus.

DAVE_FL
97GS
AEM CAI
AFX PULLEY
AFX solid motor mount
Magnaflow exhaust
Sparkco 9mm wires
Eibach Pro Kit
tokico shocks
Altezzas
A Badass sound system
Indiglows,neons,and all that good stuff...hehe

how come no one is going HKS head gasket I thought they made the best gaskets for our cars, some one quoted me $205.00 is that considered expensive????????

to my knowledge HKS does not have one for us, but I could be wrong or they could have recently introduced it. As far as what compresion will the MLS bring a motor that has 8:8.1. It would be the same. The MLS is basicly a factory replacement Head gasket made of three layers of metel (thin) as apposed to the original Carbon material. The thickness is pretty much the same if not exactly.
SEE YA!!!!!!!!!!!MWC





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Thicker head gaskets do lower compression, but they are a "temporary" fix beacuse very simply, the stock pistons, rings and rods can only hold so much horsepower before they break.

Usually in my epxerience the rings give first, and then you might crack a piston. If yousuddenly jump the boost tolike 20psi on stock internals, then you risk snapping a rod right there. The stock rods are puny little things when comapred to Crower rods..
And the JE pistons are designed to withstand knock much better.

Guy
RS_Guy



I might actually be *driving* my car soon!
Its only been 6 LONG months...

Damn the waiting..... It Sucks!

-----
www.GTuned.com

Shims for head gaskets are not recommended by any gasket manufacturer. The concept seems viable at first look, but if it were truy effective, you would see them everywhere, for every engine that is boosted.

Bill Hahn Jr.
98 RS Turbo: 10.87 @ 136 MPH
HRC Stage V with N20
Nation's Fastest Street FWD 2G DSM
www.turbosystem.com

LAST EDITED ON 25-Apr-01 AT 06:19 AM (PST)

Everyone must understand that this is a "method" and not the best way to do it. I dont think it is not even thinkable for someone to run 20 PSI just beacuse they lowered their compresion. AS I SAID The issue with the compresion is fixed BUT THERE IS STILL THE ISSUE WITH RODS/RINGS/PISTONS not being able to handle too much boost. I dont care what compresion one has, if you go over the "safe zone" in HP your bottom end will fail. HKS/MLS/POS or any other headgasket will not prevent that. I thought I made this clear in my first few post, but if I didnt then I hope it is now.
Sorry! I just dont like to be put in the light of misleading someone
SEE YA!!!!!!!!!!!!MWC






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>Shims for head gaskets are not
>recommended by any gasket manufacturer.

Thats because it is not the duty of the headgasket manufacture to supply such a thing. Not everone who needs to replace their head gasket wants lower compresion, do they? Only us turbo guy's.




>at first look, but if
>it were truy effective, you
>would see them everywhere, for
>every engine that is boosted.
>
They are made for just about every motor. It is widely used for heads that have been resurfaced and milled, so with the addition of the shim it will bring it back to factory specs.

LOOK FOR ALL TO SEE!
I have always supported HRC and Bills products he sales. I would rather see you guy's spend $1,200 on rods and pistons with him.(I am sure he would as well)
But I cant lend you the cash, and if you dont have it and are in the process of doing a head gasket replacment, this method WILL WORK to lower your compression and thats it! not allow you to boost to infinity.





SEE YA!!!!!!!!!!!!MWC

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Maybe I can learn something here, but I have not seen the shims you refer to in a widespread fashion. Can you point me at a source? All of the larger companies I have worked with are not comfortable with this concept.

Bill Hahn Jr.
98 RS Turbo: 10.87 @ 136 MPH
HRC Stage V with N20
Nation's Fastest Street FWD 2G DSM
www.turbosystem.com

Here's how i see it. We are running stock 9.6:1 compression with boost on top. Detonation is a big factor with this combination.
The advantage of the shims would be that you can lower your compression and run a little more boost to equal out the lost horsepower from compression. So now you're running more boost with a less of a chance of detonating, and you are still creating the horsepower you were at before.

Strength wise you guys are absolutely right. There is no point
in lowering your compression with you mind set on monster boost.
You will snap/melt something..

Additionally, how do these things last in terms of the shim/gasket blowing out? and lastly, are you certain of those
compression ratio numbers ? from 9.6 to 8:5 ??? Anything creating that much of a compression drop is very suceptable to
blowing out. 9.0:1 would be a more realist compression..

Later!

LAST EDITED ON 26-Apr-01 AT 08:02 AM (PST)

Well CNNP racing uses them on their Neons, as well as the manufacture. Unfourtunatly I just shipped one out (Stan should have it by tomarrow) and dont have the Phone # of the company that makes it They are in Texas, I remember that much. As far as to answer the other question boostnRS had, you and I are on the same page.
As far as the life spand on the shim. It is solid metel so blowing it is not a issue, and if it is, you got major problems.
As far as the #'s they are correct and really the thickness is the exact same as the MLS factory gasket, so it would be the same as if you just used two head gaskets. I am sure you have heard of that practice right BILL? I realy think that I will agree to disagree with some on this. I never said it was for everyone, or anyone for that matter, just an option. If anyone wishes to to purchase one or more info, hit me up or Call CNNP racing in Hollywood Florida and ask for Nemo.
Till then, Happy boosting!!!!
SEE YA!!!!!!!!!!!!MWC




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With all due respect, stacking head gaskets is just as edgy as installing a head gasket shim.

I do not mean to make you feel uncomfortable or defensive, but I do my best to keep people informed on this forum. I do not believe there is enough evidence available to date that supports shims or stacking gaskets as viable methods that will not lead to leak issues down the road. Head gaskets may seem simple, but the aspects they must deal with are numerous, demanding and severe. Compromises in this critical area are not advisable.

The other company you mention may be comfortable with allowing their customers to do such long term experimentation, but I tend to err on the side of caution, especially where long term issues are involved. Taken from that point of view, and based upon my considerable engine design experience, I cannot recommend this approach.

Bill Hahn Jr.
98 RS Turbo: 10.87 @ 136 MPH
HRC Stage V with N20
Nation's Fastest Street FWD 2G DSM
www.turbosystem.com

Show me where I posted anything about long term? I didnt!
You are a very respected company and individule, this I would not even think to disagree with. But with all do respect just cause you have not heard of this nor do you aprove of this method realy is your opinion and not Fact. This is why you stated truthfully you are not aware of this whole idea, so why are you so quick to shoot it down. It is my responibility to inform on this board as well, as it is with EVERYONE else. I dont mean to offend you or make you feel uncomfortable, but you are starting to sound like you and only you have all the ideas and best ways even on a subject you have not heard of. That to me sounds like you may want to listen a little more than speak, and maybe you will learn somthing new(to you that is).
The concept of turboing a 420A back in the day I am sure was thought to be a crazy thing to do, but you did research and proved it to be a great thing. Let me quess, you probably dont recomend Nitrous instead of a turbo system. Why cause Nitrous is bad for a motor? Maybe, or maybe cause you dont sell Nitrous, or shims, you sell turbo's and pistons and rods instead. Hmmmmmm!
Makes me think.
Oh well, the shims will be available weather or not some choose not to support them.
That being said, everyone! HRC is THE BEST TURBO VENDOR OUT THERE FOR THE 420A and OTHER types of cars and motorcycles, but just because he does not agree or support a method lowering compresion "tempararely" as I have said since post one, does not mean it does not work. If you think differant then I wish you the best of luck. Becuase when you decide to follow one and only one way of thinking you are bond to be in for a supprize when that way of thinking is proven wrong.
SEE YA!!!!!!!!!!!MWC






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Hehe.. MWC lighten up a little bit bro! ..I have already stated previously what i thought about the shims, and i not need to take sides on this argument, but in regards to HRC's comment. I think Bill was just simply being informative about the situation. (at least thats what it seemed like to me)..

Stay cool !! and happy boosting!


BTW: My website is actually underway now. It will have full install notes on my 2nd custom turbo kit!! I never took pix
of the first one, but this one is going to be better anyways..
I'll keep you guys posted.. Im currently working towards 260hp@wheels @ 8psi on stock bottom end..

LAST EDITED ON 26-Apr-01 AT 02:11 PM (PST)

>Hehe.. MWC lighten up a little
>bit bro!

lol, I am not mad, just upset a little that some who I have always supported put word in my mouth(post) that I never said. Regardless of how my post looks I still have a great deal of respect for HRC and Bill, just not so much that I have to agree with everthing he says or belives.



ave already stated previously what
>i thought about the shims,
>and i not need to
>take sides on this argument,

I would not expect you to. There arent sides here, just a theroy, and some who believe and some who dont. Thats it!


>but in regards to HRC's
>comment. I think Bill was
>just simply being informative about
>the situation. (at least thats
>what it seemed like to
>me)..

I hear ya, but this is a topic that he has never heard of(at leat much of) as he states here:
HRC <Maybe I can learn something here, but I have not seen the shims you refer to in a widespread fashion. Can you point me at a source? >

HRC <I do not believe there is enough evidence available to date that supports shims or stacking gaskets as viable methods that will not lead to leak issues down the road. >

That to me did not sound to be informative, but thus far "uninforative". Based on little or no "research" a staement was giving as if it were Fact.
The facts are:
you take a BIGGER risk of blowing your motor adding a Turbo/turbo system to it than you do by installing a thick headgasket or shim. But no one is quick to point that out.

SEE YA!!!!!!!!!!MWC




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My buddy just informed me that Installing Shims on
top of your headgasket will alter you cam timing due
to positioning your timing belt off a little.
(not a very big deal, but a little iffy for long term, if
anyone would use it that way)

Just something i thought i could share here.

That is a godd point and only backs up the fact that it is really desigened to bring back a milled head to specs. But remeber if you have adjustable cam gears it is not a prob.
SEE YA!!!!!!!!!!!!MWC

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Just to clarify: at no time have I inferred that a thicker head gasket is prone to leak issues. Should such a gasket exist for our engines, it would be an excellent alternative for reducing compression ratio.

My only intention here is to warn against the trouble that stacking head gaskets or adding 'shims' can result in. In boosted engines, such an approach is not recommended, as it can lead to leakage. I have seen, and been made aware from other engine experts, of the ill effects of this approach. I therefore recommend against it. No offense meant to anyone, and no hidden agenda for piston sales. Just helpful advice, meant to assist others in avoiding situations whose results could disappoint them.

Bill Hahn Jr.
98 RS Turbo: 10.87 @ 136 MPH
HRC Stage V with N20
Nation's Fastest Street FWD 2G DSM
www.turbosystem.com

so how does it alter the timing on the cams negative or positively???i gotta change the ol' gasket too and since i'm going turbo sometime this fall i'd like to know what should i get for a gasket a thicker one does seem like the ball game though.

Chris
Project RS
Uncle Ben's Motorsports
http://klipzracer.homestead.com/index.html
chrisdishmon@hotmail.com