Well i was wanting to get a bit more fuel since my boost has been spiking to 10 psi lately, and egt's were getting close to 1600, so i decided to swap in the largest SFMU disk. Well I went out to tune with the pocketlogger and Palm, and to my surprise i was getting like 40 psi of fuel at 7 or 8 psi boost. For some reason the SFMU wasnt raising the fuel pressure. So i took it apart again, thinking it wasnt sealed good enough, but i did have the bleed valve open before about 2 turns. Even so, it still should have raised the fuel pressure much more than that, since the largest disk raises pressure at least 20 psi over the 2.72" disk i was using. So I get back together, close off the bleed valve completely, and then it works much better. Note that when it wasnt raising the fuel much, i did NOT hear ANY detonation. Temps were in the 20's, and damn cold intake temps. Got on the highway to tune it again, and hit about 10.5 psi, and fuel pressure was around 85 psi, and egt's never went over 1500, and o2's were .96 in 4th gear. Needless to say, the car pulled damn hard! Turned around on the next exit, and on the on ramp, shifted from 3rd to 4th, and heard a nice backfire out the exaust, and thought it must have been a bit rich, nothing to abnormal there. Come off the exit, and notice the idle was a bit off, just sounded off. I had about 1-2 less Hg's in vacume on the boost gauge. Got back home, pulled the oil dipstick, and sure enough, its puffing a little smoke. I havent done a comp test, but i'm sure one piston has craked the top ring land, since this time isnt as bad as last when i craked two ring lands. I'll just drive it for now since it still runs ok. Luckily i'm in the process of buying all the parts for the rebuild! So it seems to me, that stock pistons cant take any more than 9 psi. This is 2 times now that this has happened past 10 psi, with NO detonation, and plenty of fuel. I'll tell you what though, the car was FAST as hell at almost 11 psi. So to answer the other post about how much our stock pistons can take, dont go over 9 psi The SFMU is still not functioning properly, so a new one is on order. I had bought it used and messed up, and had it rebuilt by Vortech, but still isnt right. Time for a brand new one. Fuel pressure should have been at least 10-15 psi more than what it was at 10 psi, with the bleed valve closed. I sucked on the vac line going to the SFMU to see if it kept a vacum, and it was perfect, no leaks...
.

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

damn man, haha well i was thinkin of uping the boost a little bit before i rebuild, but my blocks getting built right now, so not much longer till i can run some serious boost... after break in ill be pushing 15 psi daily woohoo! but good luck, i hope you dont have much downtime

Boca Raton, Florida
95 Eclipse GS- sold
99 Eclipse GSX- 386awhp
98 Eclipse GS- sold
92 Prelude

Yeah for those that dont know, the current plan is that i am using Matt_95tgs's old block out of his car, since he has the Howell block. There is an awmsome machine shop out by him, and the block will be all cleaned, decked, bored, and balanced, for about 200 bucks. Matt found a place that has some JE 8.6:1 .020 over pistons, rings, pins and locks for 400 bucks. I'll get some Eagle rods, Mopar rod and main bearings, melling oil pump, new timing belt crap, and a custom built clutch. Pulling the motor and tranny as one unit, replacing the TO bearing, and tranny axle oil seals. Using some ARP head studs and OEM MLS head gasket. The head will hopefully be ported and all rough spots smoothed out too. Should be a fun project, that will hopfully be done in the next month or so. I will plan on running about 12 psi or so on my current fuel setup. The 30 pound injectors should be enough for that for now using the SFMU and higher fuel pressure.

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

Damn Matt. This winter has not been kind to you at all. I wish you the best with the car and now it at least gives you an excuse *cough* to install the forged internals. I'm beginning to worry if or when this will happen to me and maybe I will just prevent it in the next couply of months by having a rebuild done with forged internals.

I have done a compression test since the turbo install and all looks good (this was only 1,000 miles afterwards - kit has been on since November '02). I am about due for an oil change so it will be interesting to see the new results.


Some of this question just applies to Powereclipse as Matt has mentioned his setup. I am just trying to get more info on rebuild options. How do you plan on running 12-15 psi of boost? Are you running a different ignition (to control/retard timing) and fuel setup (such as a SAFC to handle larger injectors)? Matt, I believe you were just running the 315cc/min injectors with just the Vortech SFMU based on previous posts.

What about the forged internals? Are you both running the JE 8.6 Compression with .020 over (do the come standard bore?) and the Eagle H beam rods? Or did you choose a different compression?

Just curious about your setups and thanks,
Kurt

>
>Some of this question just applies to Powereclipse as Matt has
>mentioned his setup. I am just trying to get more info on
>rebuild options. How do you plan on running 12-15 psi of
>boost?

I plan on using my current setup for 12 psi: Accel inline fuel pump, SFMU with 3.64" disk/bleed valve, and Accel 30 lb injects. The SFMU should have no problem giving enough fuel pressure (when its working right) for higher boost. I *may* have enough room to run 15 psi on the 30 lb ers, but thats really pushing it.



Are you running a different ignition (to
>control/retard timing) and fuel setup (such as a SAFC to
>handle larger injectors)? Matt, I believe you were just
>running the 315cc/min injectors with just the Vortech SFMU
>based on previous posts.


Well with slightly lower compression pistions, timing retard should not be needed until past 16-18 psi, if that. I wont be there for a while, not until i figure out what fuel system/setup I want to run. Either the 8 injector setup, or the E- Manage setup.
>
>What about the forged internals? Are you both running the JE
>8.6 Compression with .020 over (do the come standard bore?)
>and the Eagle H beam rods? Or did you choose a different
>compression?


I'm going with the low comression JE's (I think they are 8.6:1) because i am getting a pretty good deal on them with the rings, pins, and locks. I do believe they come standard bore, but borin out the cylinders should be done to be sure they are all nice and round, and perfect. No need to skimp for a hundred bucks to bore. I will use the standard Eagle rods that most of us use. Not sure if they are H beam or not, i dont believe they are. Finding the money to get all this shit may be rather difficult, so looks like i will be eating grilled cheese and potato chips for dinner every day!! Maybe some Ramen noodles too
>

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

Thanks for all the info and the quick response. I plan on talking to my mechanic regarding pricing on how much it would be to have the forged internals installed in my motor.

I've been doing some research and have been considering talking to some of the guys and Race Engineering. Here's a link: http://www.raceeng.com. You may want to check them out if you still need parts as their prices seem ok - let me know if you've found cheaper or if you know anything about the company. They sell the JE Racing Pistons ($375 to $469 depending on application - these include wrist pins), Eagle Forged H-Beam Rods ($369), Cometic MLS Head Gasket ($65), and ARP head studs. They also sell a combined kit but ask you to call for a price. (I know you only need rods just thought that prices seemed decent - it probably would turn out to be almost the same price as the Howell bottem end kit which is around $1,000)

I've got some research to do as I was considering replacing the internals with forged equipment but was also thinking about staying closer to the current compression of 9:6 to 1. I know that high compression will out power low compression (at the same boost level) but you will have to be dead on in tuning to keep it together - the 8.6 to 1 will give you some room for small errors. I will probably go lower compression to play it safe (maybe 8.8 or so). Any thoughts?

I was asking about standard bore because I think I will leave the engine building to a professional although I've done all other work on my car. I figured since I have never blown my motor (about 48,000 miles on the motor) and compression is 210 in all cylinders that my block has to be in pretty good shape. I don't think my mechanic has the equipmet to bore the block (which would save some money since he wouldn't have to take the block out of the car) but I am sure he could replace the internals by taking the head off and dropping the oil pan (as well as replacing all the other equipment - timing belt, pulleys, water pump, oil pump, etc). Advice?


B.T.W. If anyone knows of a good engine builder/mechanic in the Central Jersey area, please post their info (I didn't mean to hijack your thread Matt just thought it would be a good time to ask since you are in the process of rebuilding)

Thanks,
Kurt

>>
>I've been doing some research and have been considering
>talking to some of the guys and Race Engineering. Here's a
>link: http://www.raceeng.com. You may want to check them out
>if you still need parts as their prices seem ok - let me know
>if you've found cheaper or if you know anything about the
>company. They sell the JE Racing Pistons ($375 to $469
>depending on application - these include wrist pins), Eagle
>Forged H-Beam Rods ($369), Cometic MLS Head Gasket ($65), and
>ARP head studs. They also sell a combined kit but ask you to
>call for a price. (I know you only need rods just thought
>that prices seemed decent - it probably would turn out to be
>almost the same price as the Howell bottem end kit which is
>around $1,000)


Yeah i did check out their site, and was going to buy from them, but Matt found that good deal on the JE's with rings, out by him, so I will go that route. As for rods, I believe rmp97talon can get the Eagles for 315 a set. I do need the ARP studs and other crap too. I can get wholesale discount prices from the Dodge dealership out by me,using my work/ shop account, hell i know the parts guy to well now, so i can get all the gaskets, bearings, and timing belt stuff at pretty good prices. Oh and about Howell, I will never give one cent to them! Way to many other good places to do business with.
>
>I've got some research to do as I was considering replacing
>the internals with forged equipment but was also thinking
>about staying closer to the current compression of 9:6 to 1.
>I know that high compression will out power low compression
>(at the same boost level) but you will have to be dead on in
>tuning to keep it together - the 8.6 to 1 will give you some
>room for small errors. I will probably go lower compression
>to play it safe (maybe 8.8 or so). Any thoughts?

Yes, i like the idea of lower compression pistons over hihger or stock compression. This way, you can run a bit more conservative A/F ratios (no so damn rich), and you will not have to pull timing out as early as stock or higher compression pistons, with boost. I believe i should be safe for no timing retard up to around 16-18 psi. I am still a firm believer in the J&S safeguard unit, just hope they will get it pefected to work properly for our applications. This will be a perfect solution to timing retard with boost, and also a detonation monitor and per cylinder retard unit, when detonation occurs.
>
>I was asking about standard bore because I think I will leave
>the engine building to a professional although I've done all
>other work on my car. I figured since I have never blown my
>motor (about 48,000 miles on the motor) and compression is 210
>in all cylinders that my block has to be in pretty good shape.
> I don't think my mechanic has the equipmet to bore the block
>(which would save some money since he wouldn't have to take
>the block out of the car) but I am sure he could replace the
>internals by taking the head off and dropping the oil pan (as
>well as replacing all the other equipment - timing belt,
>pulleys, water pump, oil pump, etc). Advice?


I too thought about leaving the motor in the car and just using stock bore pistons and then just honing out the cylinders and off you go. BUT, i scrapped that idea after some thought. Yes, it will save money, but it will not be the RIGHT thing to do. It will always be best to fully remove the engine, and bore out the cylinders a bit oversize to be sure they are nice and round, and in perfect shape. The machine shop should also use a deck plate to simulate the heads being torqued down to the block when boring out, so as to be sure the cylinders are perfectly round when the heads are put back on. The machine shop i will be using will be doing all of that, since they have built several 420A's already. I mostly want to assemble the motor myself, for pride's sake. It really isnt hard to do at all, as long as you check all clearances, and have the proper measuring tools to do that. Dont short cut it, do it right the first time..to answer your question
>
>

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

>Doohhh! Cracked a piston...again!

^^again!!!

damn you guys scare me sometimes lol...

New Car:
2004 350z base, Nismo CAI, pioneer avic-n1 (dvd, cd, navi)



Old Car:
1998 GS with hrc stage 2, HID 6000k conversion kit, AEM UEGO wideband, sfmu, ml, prokits, Greddy warning gauges: egt, boost gauge, and oil pressure, apexi tt, haydans tranny cooler, costum dp, groundwires, dynotune fp gauge. gst muff, turbo spoiler
Boostin since Aug 03.

nothing like driving with the windows down and the music low: i love hearing the turbo spool, swwwhhhttt!!!!

damn matt, just after you mentioned your boost spiking to 10 psi now and again... its just going to speed up the process of your rebuild i guess.



as for the grilled cheese sandwiches, just stop by the other matt d's place for his moms home cookin!!!

______________________________
Matt D.
'06 Evo IX SE
'98 RS-T 13.8 @ 106.1

hey xtreme pm me and we can get u a clutch to hold up for a good price modular or non...

You can have it cheap, fast or good. Pick any two.

If you want it cheap and fast, it's not going to be good.
If you want it cheap and good, it's not going to be fast.
If you want it good and fast, it's not going to be cheap.

>>Doohhh! Cracked a piston...again!
>
>^^again!!!
>
>damn you guys scare me sometimes lol...
>


Don't worry, other only screw things up because of themselves. 10psi on stock internals is skating on thin ice... If you make certain your fuel pressure and EGT's are in check, you can boost up to 8 psi safely. (That's what I would consider "safe")...any more boost is just asking for it...

______________________________

Ryan
IRyanHester@Hotmail.com

'03 Mazda 6s

man I hope I don't crack those forged pistons I got I'm in the process of doing what your planning.

http://www.hadesomega.info -car specz and movies 95 Eclipse RS | 76' 280Z | 89' MR2 | 99 Neon | 91 Zephyr
Who sez FF can't drift?

Well compression test reveals the results of what I thought:

209/ 208/ 115/ 196

Looks like #3 has cracked the top ring land. Before I cracked the #4 with about 90 psi of compression, so its not as bad. And yes, when you become a boost junkie like some of us, the stock internals dont hold up too much past 9 psi. I have been running about 8 or 9 psi for a long time without any probs, its just lately the boost controller has been spiking a bit at high rpms..that and the SFMU seems to be messed up, not giving me the right fuel pressures. Oh and motofool, the custom clutch is going to be made by the same guy you are dealing with in Lansing, MI. Same guy that Matt_95tgs knows..Dan i believe is his name. The car actually still runs pretty good, just not like before, so i'll keep driving it as i acuire all the parts. I had actually planned on running at least 10 psi or so on the stock internals when i was ready to swap in the built motor, so this just comes a little pre-mature i guess. I like living on the edge! Just let this be a informative post to what NOT to push on the stock motor. I have proven it twice now But like i said before, the car was tuned very good IMO. NO detonation, egts were no more than 1500, and o2's were .96 in 4th gear. The car was fast as hell. Even when the SFMU wanst giving fuel the first time around, it never detonated, and the car ran normal afterwards. It must have just been too much power for the stock pistons. That 2.5" ERT downpipe gave a good power boost up high also, so i was making some good HP on the highway at 10 psi

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

I picked up the JE Pistons, rings, and wrist pins today. I will be droping them off along with the block tomorrow morning before I leave for GR as long as they open at 8:00. I will try to remember to call Dan at Clutch Dynamics for you tomorrow as well. Anyway, I'll give you a call tomorrow afternoon and chat it up with you. If the shop isnt open tomorrow at 8:00, ill bring the new toys over for you to see.

Matt
1995 Eclipse GS
2.0L, S16g Turbo, 8 Injectors, 26psi

1998 Eclipse GSX
2.3L Stroker, AEM EMS Converted to Speed Density, FP3065 Turbo, 35psi , and so on...

>I picked up the JE Pistons, rings, and wrist pins today. I
>will be droping them off along with the block tomorrow morning
>before I leave for GR as long as they open at 8:00. I will
>try to remember to call Dan at Clutch Dynamics for you
>tomorrow as well. Anyway, I'll give you a call tomorrow
>afternoon and chat it up with you. If the shop isnt open
>tomorrow at 8:00, ill bring the new toys over for you to see.
>
As always, you da man! Thanks for the help bro Shiny new parts are always fun to check out Damn i cant wait for the block to get done so I can start to put it all together..

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)