Hey everyone. After owning a 1g 4g63 for 5 years i have fallen in love with my 2g 420a rs. People like to call my car a bastard child, but whatever i love this thing!! what do you boosters think about the 420? happy boosting! -etx

____________________________________________________
four nails four corners four riders and four horses

the 420a needs some new pistons and rods after that it will take everymod u can throw at it...(properly tuned of course...)

You can have it cheap, fast or good. Pick any two.

If you want it cheap and fast, it's not going to be good.
If you want it cheap and good, it's not going to be fast.
If you want it good and fast, it's not going to be cheap.

I love it so far. Tuning the 420A is truly a labor of love--really. I like it because I don't have to worry about crankwalk (like the 2G 4G63) and MAS. I also like tuning a turbocharged 420A because it keeps me on my toes and interested all the time. There are so much to learn and experiment.

___________
Kon C

"Sometimes, a man has to do what a man has to do."

Every 4g63 guy I have taken for a ride in my car have been extremely impressed. I love my car and and the set-up I have going right now....just wish I had more traction

I used to have a 420a and was in the process of upgrading. but then i found a 4g63 for sale. The best part was it was a repo, the previous owner spent all his money (upgrade turbo, BOV, full exhaust, guages, boost controller, plug wires, intake, interior, nice tires, adjustable coilovers and more(who knows what he did inside the engine). everything i wanted) and couldnt make his monthly payments. so i picked up a LOADED 4g63 for $8,900! it was at a consignment car lot, the bank just wanted his note paid off and thought it would be hard to sell, advantage to me. sold my 420a, paid off new car and some other shit. so in my situation i am very pleased with the upgrade. but i do miss my first, R.I.P. smokey. sold to some young rich kid and havent seen her sinc

there are some advantages over the 420a and disadvantages like said before, to do anything you have to really replace the pistons and rods and all that good stuff to get some real power. An upgraded fuel system is in much need also. The 420a has one of the best flowing heads also which in turn makes it very responsive to boost.

Boca Raton, Florida
95 Eclipse GS- sold
99 Eclipse GSX- 386awhp
98 Eclipse GS- sold
92 Prelude

you have to run the 420 a good deal richer than a 4g to be safe, but besides that, after being built, the 420 is a very good motor.
A.D.P.
"...If you do too much, people become dependant. If you do to little, people loose hope. If you do it right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
bring it on...........

4g?

intake, 2.5 exhaust w/gst muffler, pacesetter header, msd wires, ngk plugs, port and polish throttlebody, front and rear strut bars, 1.5' tenzo springs, 17" primax rims, kuhmo tires, leather interior, gsx sideskirts, BM shortshifter, GM fluid in trans...

4g63

-Joe
___________________________________
White 98 Eclipse GS MT
Star Stage 2
*Stolen - 10/24/03*

well i have a decent question... for anyone who saw that video of the 4g pushin 612whp in the pits... it would be alot harder for our car to do that, i want to know, how you would get that much hp for our cars even if you subtract the 80hp that the nos did your still left with 532, how can we get that much hp...

Boca Raton, Florida
95 Eclipse GS- sold
99 Eclipse GSX- 386awhp
98 Eclipse GS- sold
92 Prelude

VE modifications(cams, valves, head porting) + race gas + 40 pounds o' BOOST.

EDIT: If you could raise the rev limit then you could probably get there with less boost - like 35 pounds on a 8000 rev limit.


95 Eclipse RS : 5 speed
Jeep TB writeup - http://www.dimensia.com:81/jimbo/JeepTBfor2gnt.html

I am also now stuck with the question.... I am at the point of a rebuild, do I sell and get a GST/GSX or get the bottom end kt???
I JUST DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO!!!!
Nick
97RS
OBX Headers, OBX CAI, OBX Cat-Back, 8%tint,Walbro High flow pump, Accell wires/plugs, Custom interior, Upper Strut Bar, Kenwood/pioneer stereo.
Old: Custom IHI Stage2
In about a week: NX75 shot, AFX Ecu

Hmmm, that is a good question...build the bottom end of your car and make it practically bullet proof and a very rare car or sell it for a 4G63 which you see everywhere, pay higher insurance, and might get crankwalk...decisions decisions .

____________________________
HAD: '98 Eclipse RS

HAVE: '04 Grand Prix GTP Comp G

i have been thinking about this lately. you have two cars going at it. lets just say, 97 gst, upgraded turbo to super16g, all hard piping,blowoff valve, 3 inch exhaust trying to take on a 97 gs stage 3 hahn kit(upgraded fuel), complete with an engine rebuild and 3inch exhaust both cars will be boosting 1 bar. which is laying down more power numbers? who will win head to head pending the driver is against himself?

www.artexmusic.com

97' grey gs/Greddy EVO catback/Greddy header/AEM cai/afx udp/dropped on 2" sprints

im thinking in theory the gst will make a little more power for the shear fact that that motor came from the factory built for a turbo, then again the way our heads our, it may make up for that difference, depends on tuning also

turbo8u: "jiggle jiggle then vroom vroom pshhhh"
-Mike Pruett
2gnt member# 976
MOPAR Stage 2
SRTForums.com member #37 (Yeah, I signed up when it first came out, and ended up getting one, cool huh?)
"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
- General George Patton (1885-1945)

if you buy another car, get yourself a vr-4 or a supra. buying a 4g63 or rebuilding your motor is an either/or affair.

A.D.P.
"...If you do too much, people become dependant. If you do to little, people loose hope. If you do it right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
bring it on...........

Well a 97 GS-T and a 97 Stage 3 GS are two very different cars. If you compare an equally modded GS-T with a 420a turbo at stage 3, there will be a large difference in price due to the fact that you can get a GS-T to that level for a lot cheaper than a 420a.

The GS-T would be able to push 20psi on the street by that time with relatively little tuning. Basically you are upgrading everything on the GS-T that you do on the 420a, except for the full motor rebuild. So you have several thousands of dollars extra to play with.

Guys i really look at it this way.

First gst cars yah are turbo and stuff but with a t-25 one could never generate more than like 220 to the wheels IMO.

Now the truth about when one goes turbo is to feel the power and to be mean and fast. To beat anything that stands in your way.

Gst vs Gs trubo i believe they are both the same if you are looking to generate well over 400-500 hp to the wheels.

With both you need bigger turbo , injectors, custome piping , intercooler, and built motor, ignition and stand alone system, etc.

The only thing difference i see from my RS and a GST is that the 4g motor can hold more power but at a certain point it still need to be rebuild and in the long run will take the same amount of money to make both cars run the same or have the same amount of HP.

Maybe 1k difference or maybe less but still the same.

But hey its better to know that you bought a slow car and made it fast, than bought a fast car and still not faster

hehee dumb but heheh

DsM Power Soon to be turbo yahhhhhh

Biggest advantage the GST/X's have over us isnt their motors internals, far as im concerned. its their ECU's. they are MADE to know boost, love boost, and know what to do with boost. unlike ours, which freak out. gove me an ECU with the capabilities to deal with boost like the GST/X cars do....and ill have a 500hp dyno in a few weeks.. hehehe.

www.TeamKLR.com
1997 Silver RS
12.3@118mph,20psi, race gas(drag radials)
Wiseco 10.5 Pistons
Eagle Rods
T3/T4 Turbo
Custom FMIC
Greddy Exhaust
440's

AFX BOOSTing ECU



Nick
97RS
OBX Headers, OBX CAI, OBX Cat-Back, 8%tint,Walbro High flow pump, Accell wires/plugs, Custom interior, Upper Strut Bar, Kenwood/pioneer stereo.
Old: Custom IHI Stage2
In about a week: NX75 shot, AFX Ecu

whats that? got a url?

____________________________________________________
four nails four corners four riders and four horses

>Biggest advantage the GST/X's have over us isnt their motors
>internals, far as im concerned. its their ECU's. they are MADE
>to know boost, love boost, and know what to do with boost.
>unlike ours, which freak out. gove me an ECU with the
>capabilities to deal with boost like the GST/X cars do....and
>ill have a 500hp dyno in a few weeks.. hehehe.
>
>www.TeamKLR.com
>1997 Silver RS
>12.3@118mph,20psi, race gas(drag radials)
>Wiseco 10.5 Pistons
>Eagle Rods
>T3/T4 Turbo
>Custom FMIC
>Greddy Exhaust
>440's


Agreed. Our ecu and fuel system are surely the biggest hindrance. I think the emanage and the 8-injector setups are going to go a long way to close that gap. That and a lot of the experience we have gained along the way. We are years behind in the experience been there done that dept.

To make 600fwhp, we need a kick ass turbo (FP red 8cm) and a kick ass tuner. Mix them together and you get 600fwhp. Lots of respect to NABR and the guys involved with that car from me.

We have seen similar power in a 420A, just not in a street car. Go check out phatridz and HRC least you already forget.

05 Mazda RX-8
06 Lotus Elise

I absolutely agree that once you get to rebuilding the 420a and using stand alone fuel management that the engines basically enter level playing field. Then the price starts to even out as well. It is just that the engines don't really become even until stage 4-5 for the turbo systems. That is a lot of money to spend on just the engine. For that price you can do all of those mods plus full exhaust, suspension, etc to a 4G63 and still be able to support 400-500hp on the stock bottom end.


Let me go back a few steps.... I think the two engines don't become really equal until they are stripped down to the bare block and head. Let me paste part of a post I made to the Rochester list a few days ago...

A little while ago before my accident, I was going to buy a 2gnt to build up as a drag racer. I wanted FWD, and figured that I could be just as effective with a 420a as a 4G63. My reasoning behind that is I would basically be stripping the engine down to the bare head and block, slapping on a new intake manifold and exhaust manifold, along with turbo, new fuel system, etc. When you strip a 4G63 and a 420a down to just the block and head, rebuild the internals with forged on both, what do you have? Two almost identical 2.0 blocks. The main differences being the 420a is already designed for a MAP sensor, can use really cheap parts from other cars (such as four huge injectors from Ford for a 1/4 of the price of 4G63 injectors), and has a lot less moving parts to begin with. It also has a full hemi combustion chamber, a 4-bolt bedplate design (as opposed to the weaker use of main bearing caps), among other things.

So once you strip both blocks down and use the same internals, same CR, same stand alone, etc, the 420a becomes the superior engine. It certainly doesn't mean the 4G63 can't perform. Dan Cokic's AWD ran 9.6 WITHOUT nitrous. Crazy.

>Two almost identical 2.0 blocks.

This sure is the truth.

When I had my 4g63 head off of my laser, and had a spare 420a block sitting in my garage, the differences when mating were unbelievably small. As a matter of fact, except for the VERY slight differences in the bore positions, and some coolant passage differences, when positioning a 4g63 HG on a 420a block, they were almost a perfect mate.

These engines are so much more similar than they are different.

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

Well, I guy in our local club had a 97 GST with a Mutt 2 (I think) and all the supporting mods. He put down 358 hp with racegas on the dyno. I am one tenth faster than him in the quarter, but his best trap is 2 mph higher. With better traction, both cars are in the 12's easily, but mod for mod I've got him covered. Biggest difference is his ecu is basically ok with putting down 358fwhp and mine needs the Accel DFI to help put it down.

Greg

'19 Genesis G70 3.3t AWD
'88 Chrysler Conquest TSI

>It also has a full hemi combustion chamber

???Enlighten me.

man what's everyones obsession with power? With great power comes great respsonsibility haha ok that sounded lame. I just want something fun to play with.

But yeh the 4G63 stock is a pretty tough engine only because it was built for boost, but the 420A is a more modern and convienient design than the 4G63. Lets face it the 4G we got is like a really old EVO engine, the most modern 4G63 is like way different and luckily we will be getting it when the EVO8 comes MAP sensor ownz the 4G! I also like how the 420A isn't as cluttered in the engine bay as the 4G63 I believe the valvetrain is much better on the 420A also.

I'll tell you one thing though that T25 snail is a POS haha, I mean it puts you back in the seat fast but loses its wind quickly hehe. My friend always complains about his tiny turbo. But its also good at least be thankful you got a snail.

also on the RS vs GST thing I like the RS because the inputs are all light and the car doesn't feel as heavy, drive a 2GNT then drive a 2GT afterwards everything in the 2GT feels heavier.

now that I think of it I've spent A LOT on this car already haha and its probably barely faster than a GST well b4 the rebuild that is mwahaha.

http://www.hadesomega.info -car specz and movies 95 Eclipse RS | 76' 280Z | 89' MR2 | 99 Neon | 91 Zephyr
Who sez FF can't drift?

wtih all of the input made by everyone, what is the original poster's final decision. are you going to get a gst/x or are you going to build your motor. I like to know my 2 cents are actually going to be considered and used instead of farting in the wind about what "i" like.


A.D.P.
"...If you do too much, people become dependant. If you do to little, people loose hope. If you do it right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
bring it on...........

well well... another post about this hehe. there has been endless arguments about which is better. there has been fast 4g63s and fast 420as. if everyone was the same it would be boring. if you have a fast 420a and a fast 4g63 what's the difference? they are both fast. hell, the neon srt 4 is a great motor as well. so is the sr20det. so is ls1 yadda yadda. if the 4g63 is an old design then i guess ford 302s or chevy 347s are ancient. its not like any of those engines gets upgrades? if a 420a flows fantastic which it probably does, then what about older version of 4g63 in the 1gs running 10s on stock head? 2gs run 11s on stock head. Does that mean it doesn't flow?
Only thing thats a huge difference is drivetrain. 4g63 has awd which is w/o a doubt irreplaceable.

Different tomato and potatoes for everyone. Enjoy it and just drive.

The Original 2GNT []D[][]Y[][]D


96 RS


97 GSX

How would 420A do against a 4g63 when racing?

What 4g63 and what 420A? Stock vs stock, of course the 4g63 will win. Fully modified vs fully modified, my money is on the 420a. My brother has a 1998 GSX that I drive and race against all the time, and I will say that my GS does take better to boost than his car does. I would say the main reason for this is because the stock TB, intake manifold, and head are too damn restrictive in the 2nd gen 4g63 cars. My brother runs 18 psi of boost on a FPBig 28 turbo with a greddy big FMIC, RC 550's, all hard piping, and an safc and I can hang with him from a roll at 13 psi. By the way, I know for a fact that his car is running properly with great compression, timing etc... At the track he will win though for 1 reason... AWD rocks plain and simple. I sure wish my 1-wheel-wonder could pull off 1.7 sec 60 ft times like he does.

Matt
1995 Eclipse GS
2.0L, S16g Turbo, 8 Injectors, 26psi

1998 Eclipse GSX
2.3L Stroker, AEM EMS Converted to Speed Density, FP3065 Turbo, 35psi , and so on...

wow i can't believe this thread is still going! I still love my 420a, it just seems like a more solid motor than the 4g63.

____________________________________________________
four nails four corners four riders and four horses

I own both, and I like both

turbo8u: "jiggle jiggle then vroom vroom pshhhh"
-Mike Pruett
2gnt member# 976
MOPAR Stage 2
SRTForums.com member #37 (Yeah, I signed up when it first came out, and ended up getting one, cool huh?)
"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
- General George Patton (1885-1945)

>What 4g63 and what 420A? Stock vs stock, of course the 4g63
>will win. Fully modified vs fully modified, my money is on
>the 420a. My brother has a 1998 GSX that I drive and race
>against all the time, and I will say that my GS does take
>better to boost than his car does. I would say the main
>reason for this is because the stock TB, intake manifold, and
>head are too damn restrictive in the 2nd gen 4g63 cars. My
>brother runs 18 psi of boost on a FPBig 28 turbo with a greddy
>big FMIC, RC 550's, all hard piping, and an safc and I can
>hang with him from a roll at 13 psi. By the way, I know for a
>fact that his car is running properly with great compression,
>timing etc... At the track he will win though for 1 reason...
>AWD rocks plain and simple. I sure wish my 1-wheel-wonder
>could pull off 1.7 sec 60 ft times like he does.

not to knock on your reasoning, but you hang with a much heavier car and one with awd drivetrain from a roll? of course you would! How do you do from a stop?

You have an hrc stage 4, which i believe comes with a bigger turbo than an fp28 (which isn't big at all) which flows more. You're more "fully modified" than your brother is. A stage four is built motor, your bro does not have a built motor. That does not qualify your bro to have a built motor.

a 2g head, tb, and intake manifold is too restrictive on a 2g car? that's ludicrous if you think all those 2gs with stock head, tb, and intake manifold running 11sec quarter mi is slow. 1g cars have run high 10s on stock head, mani, tb, etc. yeah its more restrictive than a 1g but too restrictive, no way? bleh pure misconception

The Original 2GNT []D[][]Y[][]D


96 RS


97 GSX

last time i checked dsm time lists from stock to mild to wild 4g63s have ruled. 4g63s are in the 7s, while most others are in 11s-12s

The Original 2GNT []D[][]Y[][]D


96 RS


97 GSX

Yeah 4gs are going to be in the 7's. They are by far one of the oldest engines around. They are race proven, a legend .. sorta. They have the majority support and hence more specialists, knowledge and know how. Take away the turbo and its dog slow....so what our cars would be too if we had lower comp without boost. To say that some one on a built engine is more race prepped then someone on a stock 4g63 is crazy. The 4g63 is built for boost, plain and simple. take an engine similar to our own and built for boost, hows the srt-4's block stand? ... what ever. I lost my train of thought you can all thank my gf for that.
Point is, this is a pointless argument. To each their own. We are here because we love our engines, some of us go to the easier way and get a 4g63, none of us doubt its potential and its reliability. We are here , now though, so its the wrong place to try and convert us into 4g63 fanatics.

Member # 751


FOUNDER of the Central Cali chapter of 2GNT!
(I got kicked out after I refused to go Cow tiping) - Hehehe you know who this is for