not me stupid........ jk it was meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee............
i think howelll got it right too-what a surprise...
i ordered in nov. 1 and got it today on dec 3. also i have a 98 eclipse and on one of the boxes it says "H TS-2265 Fuel Supplement-Late" so i guess that's the right fuel system?

damn that turbo itself is f-ing heavy. also i like how the k&n filter is all shiny(i like shiny stuff):thumbsup

it will be a while till i'm turbo though-i got to buy the vortech, missing link, datalogger, 30lbs injectors, gst bolts,steel fuel/oil lines, what else? oh yeah better bov i think.

also i was goin through the manual, it says you need 93 octane. i'm in socal so 91 is the highest. is that okay?

New Car:
2004 350z base, Nismo CAI, pioneer avic-n1 (dvd, cd, navi)



Old Car:
1998 GS with hrc stage 2, HID 6000k conversion kit, AEM UEGO wideband, sfmu, ml, prokits, Greddy warning gauges: egt, boost gauge, and oil pressure, apexi tt, haydans tranny cooler, costum dp, groundwires, dynotune fp gauge. gst muff, turbo spoiler
Boostin since Aug 03.

nothing like driving with the windows down and the music low: i love hearing the turbo spool, swwwhhhttt!!!!

91 octane will do. Just keep the boost low. below 9 psi on pump gas. A few of us has already gone through rebuilds in SoCal.

-K-

>(i like shiny stuff):thumbsup
>


lol....you should put that as your sig...

Matt
a.k.a. bustrblue1
R.I.P '95 Eclipse GS
intake, exhaust, push button starter, painted interior, custom short shifter, and one shiny car!
http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=230275
^ shows what happened to my baby

>it will be a while till i'm turbo though-i got to buy the vortech, >missing link, datalogger, 30lbs injectors, gst bolts,steel fuel/oil >lines, what else? oh yeah better bov i think.

I just wanted to chime in on a few things here... The data logger is not necessary to start with for the turbo. It's nice to have but not necessary.Using the setup the kit was designed for you'll be ok. 30lb injects are not necessary to start out either, and for a stage 1 kit are overkill. What are you using the gst bolts for?...exaust mani? You don't need to do that either your stockers will do fine. (I have heard of bolts backing off of the HRC manifold though, if this solution fixes that then disregard that comment) You should have the ss oil line in the kit for the oil. You don't need steel fuel lines. Your bov will be fine for now, Once you go to higher boost is when that becomes an issue. If you want to do all these things before you put the kit on thats cool too you just don't "need" to do all of this. I just wanted to make sure because it sounded like you thought you couldn't put the kit on till you did all this. I would get the sfmu before I put it on though just because of all the problems with the craptech. If I were you I would get used to driving a turbo car befor I added all these variables. Tuning is not easy and with the bigger injects and all you will have to tune the car. And as I said above it's all overkill till you get to a stage 2+ level.

I edited to the wiki!

>
>I just wanted to chime in on a few things here... The data
>logger is not necessary to start with for the turbo. It's
>nice to have but not necessary.Using the setup the kit was
>designed for you'll be ok. 30lb injects are not necessary to
>start out either, and for a stage 1 kit are overkill. What
>are you using the gst bolts for?...exaust mani? You don't
>need to do that either your stockers will do fine. (I have
>heard of bolts backing off of the HRC manifold though, if
>this solution fixes that then disregard that comment) You
>should have the ss oil line in the kit for the oil. You
>don't need steel fuel lines. Your bov will be fine for now,
>Once you go to higher boost is when that becomes an issue.
>If you want to do all these things before you put the kit on
>thats cool too you just don't "need" to do all of this. I
>just wanted to make sure because it sounded like you thought
>you couldn't put the kit on till you did all this. I would
>get the sfmu before I put it on though just because of all
>the problems with the craptech. If I were you I would get
>used to driving a turbo car befor I added all these
>variables. Tuning is not easy and with the bigger injects
>and all you will have to tune the car. And as I said above
>it's all overkill till you get to a stage 2+ level.

i just want to be REALLY safe as possible. hmmm you help is greatly appreciated though. does everyone else agree? i think i'll stay with the bov or go with a 1g bov. i'm just concerned about being lean under boost. you know.


check your message kirby cause i got a question.

New Car:
2004 350z base, Nismo CAI, pioneer avic-n1 (dvd, cd, navi)



Old Car:
1998 GS with hrc stage 2, HID 6000k conversion kit, AEM UEGO wideband, sfmu, ml, prokits, Greddy warning gauges: egt, boost gauge, and oil pressure, apexi tt, haydans tranny cooler, costum dp, groundwires, dynotune fp gauge. gst muff, turbo spoiler
Boostin since Aug 03.

nothing like driving with the windows down and the music low: i love hearing the turbo spool, swwwhhhttt!!!!

S-FMU is needed. Might as well get those bigger injecters and it's always good to give someone a blow off valve salut. Can't really do that with that 3000gt bov. I'm also adding SS fuel lines so you can if you want. It's just for safetly matters. JUST MAKE SURE NOT TO INSTALL THAT CARTECH FPR!!!!!!!!!!! S-FMU IS NEEDED!!!!

Robert Parkhurst
toykilla@comcast.net

I think that anyone who stays with stock injectors and runs over 5 psi with either HRC, Star or custom turbo kit is a fool. I do not care if you have an intercooler or not. 91 octane will further enhance the chance of detonation and cause a higher egt than with 93 octane.

Use the 30LB injectors and the S-fmu if you have a HRC kit. Keep the egt at approx 1500 at redline in 3rd gear, which should give you a 1550 egt redline in 4th gear. The extra fuel will keep it cool for ya. When you add the front mount, the air intake temps will drop tremendously which will lower your egt, because the ecu can advance more timing. This will allow you to run higher boost, slightly leaner fuel and maintain the same egt. Since you only have 91 octane, I would limit it to 6 psi in the winter for a stage 1. You you upgrade to a front mount, you should be able to boost 9 psi all day long on 91 octane. You might have to go with a slightly higher pressure disc in the S-fmu, but maybe not. If you mix some race gas into your 91 octane and get the octane level to 93/94 you should be able to boost 10 psi all day long. There are many people that just add 1 gallon of VP Racing C16 (117 octane leaded race fuel) to a full tank of 91 octane to run the daily boost that they desire. It is such a small amount of lead it will not hurt anything.

Do not forget to put a new fuel filter in before you do your kit. If it has less than 10K miles on it, you could wait a bit longer before doing it.

These are just my opinions. You can wait on the logger, just get the proper fuel to the motor.

97 RS(PTE SC-61, Built Long Block, Electromotive Tec 3)It's Here!

>I think that anyone who stays with stock injectors and runs
>over 5 psi with either HRC, Star or custom turbo kit is a
>fool. I do not care if you have an intercooler or not. 91
>octane will further enhance the chance of detonation and
>cause a higher egt than with 93 octane.
>
>Use the 30LB injectors and the S-fmu if you have a HRC kit.
>Keep the egt at approx 1500 at redline in 3rd gear, which
>should give you a 1550 egt redline in 4th gear. The extra
>fuel will keep it cool for ya. When you add the front mount,
>the air intake temps will drop tremendously which will lower
>your egt, because the ecu can advance more timing. This will
>allow you to run higher boost, slightly leaner fuel and
>maintain the same egt. Since you only have 91 octane, I
>would limit it to 6 psi in the winter for a stage 1. You you
>upgrade to a front mount, you should be able to boost 9 psi
>all day long on 91 octane. You might have to go with a
>slightly higher pressure disc in the S-fmu, but maybe not.
>If you mix some race gas into your 91 octane and get the
>octane level to 93/94 you should be able to boost 10 psi all
>day long. There are many people that just add 1 gallon of
>VP Racing C16 (117 octane leaded race fuel) to a full tank
>of 91 octane to run the daily boost that they desire. It is
>such a small amount of lead it will not hurt anything.
>
>Do not forget to put a new fuel filter in before you do your
>kit. If it has less than 10K miles on it, you could wait a
>bit longer before doing it.
>
>These are just my opinions. You can wait on the logger, just
>get the proper fuel to the motor.

Thanks Deano-i'm thats a lot of info(points for you)

yeah, ner987 (i think that's his name just blew his motor on stock injects at stage two). i'm actually doing my bottom end just to be safe(like HIONPSI) before ever turning up the boost.

definetly getting the vortech before even doing the install, (get all guages), 30lbs injectors, missing link. do i need the datalogger just incase to check timing?

New Car:
2004 350z base, Nismo CAI, pioneer avic-n1 (dvd, cd, navi)



Old Car:
1998 GS with hrc stage 2, HID 6000k conversion kit, AEM UEGO wideband, sfmu, ml, prokits, Greddy warning gauges: egt, boost gauge, and oil pressure, apexi tt, haydans tranny cooler, costum dp, groundwires, dynotune fp gauge. gst muff, turbo spoiler
Boostin since Aug 03.

nothing like driving with the windows down and the music low: i love hearing the turbo spool, swwwhhhttt!!!!

Well Deano is right but he is talking about stage 2 you will be stage 1. Just get into it slowly. I run 8psi on the star stage 2 with stock injects with no problems. If your not upping the boost imediatly with the fmic then you don't have to do the injects now. The only thing you "NEED" IMO is the S-fmu, for right now. Do the inject's later after you learn a little more. You are building your bottom end before you put the kit on? If that's the case then the injects would not be so bad, but I would not go with the 30lbs. I would decide wich fuel system you want to go with in the end and not mess with the intermeidate stuff.(example if your going to end up with the 8 injector setup then go ahead and do it) That way once your ready you can turn up the boost. IMO get the guages the sfmu, and missing link.
EDIT: I did not get your message either you can resend it or e-mail me.

I edited to the wiki!

I was talking about stage 1 and stage 2. Stock injectors in either setup is crazy.

The cost of 30LB injectors or any larger than stock injector is a very small price to pay.

The ONLY thing an intercooler(stage 2 basically)does is lower intake temps which helps reduce detonation. This allows you to run higher boost ONLY if you have the proper fuel.

Stock injectors flow like shit when high pressure is applied. Look at the stats on who is cracking a ring land or piston. Mostly stock injector turbo guys.

8 psi with stock injectors and a front mount will destroy your motor in the hot summer.

I do agree that if he is building the bottom end, he might as well do the fuel system now.

BTW: I am going to purchase 335cc injectors and run them off the stock ecu with my star kit. I currently have 315cc and they are still too small for boosting 10psi safely in 100degree summers(9psi is fine). I have the standard FMU and stock idle fuel pressure. I currently have enough fuel for 10psi in summer, but I need more for cooling/resist detonation. This will cause the car to run a bit richer, but will help reduce knock and drop my egt approx. 50 degrees at max rpm.

Right now with the temps in the mid 30's I am boosting 11psi(93 pump gas)and cannot get my egt to get over 1600 redline in 4th gear. That tells me that the ecu is not retarding timing due to detonation causing my egt to climb. I also have enough fuel to be safe because my O2 voltage is .97 roughly and my plugs look good.

I think O2 voltage, egt and spark plugs should all be used to decide how much fuel is required. I also use 93 pump gas. Less octane requires more fuel(slightly richer)to resist detonation up to a point that you become too rich which will cause egt to climb from that also.

I only know what works for me and have taken all the info given from this board and applied it to formulate my own solution.

Good luck

97 RS(PTE SC-61, Built Long Block, Electromotive Tec 3)It's Here!

I understand your theroy and it's a good preventative. I went through the VA summer at 8psi with no problems though. I'm not saying it wouldn't help but I am saying it's not necessary. I don't have any knock my egt's do well, and my plugs look great. The only time I get scared about my egt's is when I'm at 3/4 throttle on a long 3rd to 4th gear run.(we all know about the partial throttle boost issues with the timing) If I have the pedal to the floor then they don't go past 1550.
>Right now with the temps in the mid 30's I am boosting 11psi(93 pump gas)and cannot get >my egt to get over
>1600 redline in 4th gear. That tells me that the ecu is not retarding timing due to detonation >causing my egt to
>climb. I also have enough fuel to be safe because my O2 voltage is .97 roughly and my >plugs look good.
I'm curious why would your engine retarding timing to reduce detenotation would cause your egt to rise? Or do you mean the fact that they are not rising means that you have no detenotation and therefore your cpu does not have to pull timing? My car doesn't pull timing for detonation either. Most of the guy's that have blown on stock injects have blown due to a spike or tuning mistake. I'm not trying to fight with you here but I am trying to understand. Why would HRC not find out that the fuel was a problem with all their reasearch and try to fix it? I don't know a damn thing about working with 91 octane gas though thats for sure. Once again Deano please don't think I'm attacking you or your beliefs I've asked for knowledge from you before when I was going to go up to 10psi on the stock internals. But I do not think you need more than the stock injecters when running the kit's reccomended boost range.

I edited to the wiki!

Or do you mean
>the fact that they are not rising means that you have no
>detenotation and therefore your cpu does not have to pull
>timing?

You are correct!

Why would
>HRC not find out that the fuel was a problem with all their
>reasearch and try to fix it?

Why has HRC not replaced the cartech with a better FMU to fix the irratic fuel pressure problems. They have to know that many people replace it as soon as they install their kit.

But I do not think
>you need more than the stock injecters when running the
>kit's reccomended boost range.

Many people have 50-100K miles on their car before they install a turbo kit. I think a new set of injectors should be a must when going turbo with that many miles. Accel/HRC injectors flow REALLY well and for the slight extra cost, the piece of mind would be worth it. If I just had to run a stock size or nearly stock, the 24LB Accel injectors would be a good choice.

When reaching the onset of boost the turbo is already flowing lots of air into the intake(O vacuum). The fuel pressure has not increased because it has not gone into boost. This is where we can run really lean and cause problems. I believe the stock injectors are not up to the task of this extra airflow. This is why egt can climb to nearly 1600 degrees and the timing is advanced way too much for this. A larger injector, even slightly larger would help in this area. I think people have predetonated just before entering boost which destroyed their pistons over time. SAFC further enhances the problem. With larger injectors, the fuel trims can supply the extra fuel needed(they are pulling fuel when the injectors are larger than stock) by not pulling as much or not pulling any. This gives you the extra fuel needed for safe entry into boost or if you decide to stay at 0 HG.

We each have our own opinions and that is what makes this board great. I said before that he should take all the inputs and make his own decisions that are right for him.

Adults can agree to disagree

97 RS(PTE SC-61, Built Long Block, Electromotive Tec 3)It's Here!

I'm with DeanoD. Gas in socal really sucks and the difference between 93 and 91 is huge, which makes me think its even worse than 91. Getting at least 30lb injectors and an SFMU should be the first thing you get for any HRC kit. Or you could just add octane boost every time you fill up

How much would I be looking at for an S-FMU (what the hell is this by the way?) and 24 or 30lb injectors?

____________________________
HAD: '98 Eclipse RS

HAVE: '04 Grand Prix GTP Comp G

i've emailed fly1, hionpsi, and extremers and they've pretty much said go with 30lbs-just want to be safe... now if only a kind soul will do the install videotape...

btw, im in socal so its 91 for us.

New Car:
2004 350z base, Nismo CAI, pioneer avic-n1 (dvd, cd, navi)



Old Car:
1998 GS with hrc stage 2, HID 6000k conversion kit, AEM UEGO wideband, sfmu, ml, prokits, Greddy warning gauges: egt, boost gauge, and oil pressure, apexi tt, haydans tranny cooler, costum dp, groundwires, dynotune fp gauge. gst muff, turbo spoiler
Boostin since Aug 03.

nothing like driving with the windows down and the music low: i love hearing the turbo spool, swwwhhhttt!!!!

Good Info Dino I never thought about that moment at 0 boost/vac that's a damn good point, and I understand why you'd rather be safe than sorry. Also great point on that craptech issue.

I edited to the wiki!