Well finally got around to the injectors, and went very well. Lowered my idle fuel pressure to around 33 psi at 16-17Hg's of vac, around 40 psi static. I'm using the 2.72" disk in the SFMU, bleed valve all the way closed to not bleed any boosted fuel pressure. Its running pretty good, idles good, but is obviously pretty rich. I can smell it through my gutted cat too, but its not real bad. On the highway, at WOT in 4th around 85 mph, i have about the last green led on the A/F gauge, and 1425 at most on the EGT. Hehe, yep pretty rich. Got off the highway and was about to open up the bleed valve a bit then got the CEL code. 0172 is system rich bank 1. So what does bank 1 mean anyway? Does it stand for either short or long term fuel trim? Hopefully i can data log it this weekend to see whats up. How low of fuel pressure can i go on the 315's for them to operate properly? I will lower it to around 30 psi..see what that does..I just dont want to go too low so that the injects dont spray properly..

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

I had the same setup for some time. I got the same code. The code just means O2 sensor #1 is reading too rich. I lowered my static fuel pressure to 29-30psi and it went away for a while. Came back like 2 weeks later. Just lower your static pressure and reset the ecu every once in a while. Your car should run strong like this, but it will be safe too.

Yeah i drove it for a while, about 30 minutes after the install before the code came on. I'm thinking its just barely too rich, just enough to throw the code. So this means that the ECU is trying to trim fuel over 25% right? When the ECU gets to -25% fuel trim, and it still runs too rich by the o2 sensor, it throws a code? Thats what i'm thinking anyway..thanks for the input..

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

Sweet man, glad to see you got the 30 lb injectors in finally. I'm pretty sure that the code gets thrown from the o2 sensor value, and not the percentage of fuel trim adjusted. I did think of a way to fix your rich problem though... just turn in your boost controller about 1/4 turn hahahaha. I will be around on sunday evening if you wanna truck on over here and use the datalogger, although the woman already claimed my spare time on Sunday.... But, you can come over and I will just give you my laptop and datalogger for the week and get it next weekend if you want.

Matt
1995 Eclipse GS
2.0L, S16g Turbo, 8 Injectors, 26psi

1998 Eclipse GSX
2.3L Stroker, AEM EMS Converted to Speed Density, FP3065 Turbo, 35psi , and so on...

yah thats o2 sensor 1... your fuel trim must be to high.. just try lower your static down a bit more.. i got the #30 injectors super-fmu and afc with -20% for 1000 now it does not throw codes for me...




Michael 99gs
HRC Stage 2
Stage 3 process begins anyone got a 420a block thats not spun etc?
http://www.dreamwater.net/purplebeast

Michael
99gs hrc stage 5000 SOLD...
2004 Honda Accord V6 (240 hp)stock
what other car should i buy?? hmmm
Car info & pictures at http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/520269

I have a better idea. Run 45psi base fuel pressure and lower your disk to 1:1 if you can. When the car first starts up it should idle like shit. Give it a few minutes and see if it can sort itself out. If it does, do the same for driving. Start slowly letting it learn you cars set up. See what that does for you. I think it will give you better results with no code. Not so rich for one thing as it should be more manageable by the ecu. I am predicting (only a prediction based on a lot of things I have been noticing and thinking about lately) you can run around 15psi all day this way. Worth a try.

I am starting to realize we should trust the ecu more to do its thing.

05 Mazda RX-8
06 Lotus Elise

Are you saying the ecu will sort it self out after running that rich for to long? Then once it sorts, the ecu will sudelly see boost from the map sensor? I didn't think it could sort it self out that much. I don't understand. It has been proven time and time again that if the map sees boost it will fuel cut. Give use some more input.

He isn't talking about the MAP sensor reading boost. What happens is under closed loop mode, the ecu will lean out your long term and short term fuel trims (based on information from the 02 sensor 1) to compensate for the higher static pressure. After you drive the car for awhile, the computer starts to learn what fuel map is required for your car to run right at all different RPM points and percentages of engine load. It takes awhile for the computer to figure out how much fuel it needs to squirt with all the new variables such as different injectors, and different levels of boost/throttle position (although the computer doesn't read boost itself, it does read the biproducts of it with the o2 sensor). After a fair amount of time, the computer will be adding fuel based on a completely different map than the pre-programed stock map that it falls back to when the battery is disconnected. Once the computer has learned how to run the car properly with all the new toys, in theory, it will have tuned itself and keep itself tuned.

I gotta agree with Murix on this one. I think its definately worth a try, except I'm not sure that a 1:1 ratio is going to deliver enough fuel pressure on 30 lb injectors. If it were me, I would start with close to a 1:3 and work my way down from there. Excellent advice Chris!

Matt
1995 Eclipse GS
2.0L, S16g Turbo, 8 Injectors, 26psi

1998 Eclipse GSX
2.3L Stroker, AEM EMS Converted to Speed Density, FP3065 Turbo, 35psi , and so on...

Exactly what Matt said.

What is the actual rising rate of the 2.72"?

05 Mazda RX-8
06 Lotus Elise

That just dosen't sound safe to me. The ECU mades adjustments acording to the O2. This is after the fact. It could be after you have gone to lean and blown your car up.

If oxygen sensors didn't register information fast enough to control the engine properly, there would be no point in using them at all. information travels and can be processed faster than you could immagine.

A.D.P.
"...If you do too much, people become dependant. If you do to little, people loose hope. If you do it right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
bring it on............

A.D.P.
"...If you do too much, people become dependant. If you do to little, people loose hope. If you do it right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
bring it on...........

Hmm this is very intersting indeed. I lowed my idle pressure to 30 psi. Opened up the bleed valve a bit, still got the code again, with about 10 minutes of driving. BUT i think my idle air fuel is ok. Think about this. I was going into boost not at WOT, just part throttle too, so the ECU is still reading my o2 voltages and adjusting fuel trim. I think my rise rate is too high still, causing my too rich condition under part throttle boost. As for the idle fuel pressure, i think thats fine, its just that i need less fuel for part throttle boost, not WOT boost, becuase the ECU is seeing to much fuel there. So basically i'm going from a good air/fuel to way to much fuel right into boost becuase of too much fuel pressure. A 1:1 will be too little fuel for 8 psi on 315cc injects for sure. I just may try the next lower disk(2.2 i think) and see how that goes. I just adjusted the bleed valve some more, so now its about halfway out, so my rise rate is def lower than before. Its pulling damn good too...So is running 30 psi on these injectors at idle ok? What is the safe working pressure, or the lowest it can go? I've heard 35-45 psi is the working pressure on these injects... So basically i see what you guys are saying, its really what i'm saying i guess. Even at 45 psi idle pressure, the ECU should still be able to cut fuel back, but having a lower rise rate will be better to keep less fuel getting in. I just think that 45 psi on these injects at idle will give too much fuel for the ECU to handle at idle...I dont know..

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

Matt, I already talked to you on this subject on the phone, but I wanted everyone else to see it as well. What Matt was doing was setting the fuel pressure to 40 psi and then starting the car. Well the car's preset fuel map has both his short and long term fuel trims at 0, so what happens I'm sure is that the short term fuel trim goes down to -25% and thats still a bit too much fuel, so the car throws a code. It probably needs close to -30% to run properly. The car will get -30% if you give it some time since the long term fuel trim compiles with the short term fuel trim to give your car the ability to increase/decrease the amount of fuel delivered by +/- 50%. What you need to do is start the car, let it throw the code and then drive around for awhile. It takes time for the long term fuel trim to adjust (hence the name "long term"). Once the car has had enough time to develop a new fuel map, the long term fuel trim will be -25% and the short term fuel trim will be approximately -5% or so. Once this happens, you should be able to delete the code with a datalogger or obd2 scan tool and the code should not come back. The best way to tune for this is with a datalogger though since you can set the idle fuel pressure on the regulator so that the short term fuel trim reads within 5% of 0. That way your car can still easily correct for a rich condition and not throw another code.

As far as the rise rate is concerned, you will again want to use the datalogger to view your short and long term fuel trims in closed loop mode while boosting. You want to make sure that your short term fuel trim stays as close as you can get to 0. This is again so that the car's computer can correct for a rich/lean condition easily and quickly under boost. Once your car goes into open loop mode, the car will automatically increase fuel delivery and give you the o2 reading. If your fuel trims are set correctly at full boost in closed loop mode (less than 80% throttle), than your o2 reading in open loop mode should read around .93 at WOT in 3rd gear.

As for the o2 sensor not reading fast enough... all I have to say about that it definately reads it fast enough, and even if it didnt, the readings from the o2 sensor in this case are being used to lean the car out. So in a worst case scenereo, the o2 sensor reads late or doesnt read at all and you run too rich, not too lean. This is why I am very interested in Chris and Armond's discovery with the eManage... In theory, this could be the best fuel setup yet if you really think about it.

Matt
1995 Eclipse GS
2.0L, S16g Turbo, 8 Injectors, 26psi

1998 Eclipse GSX
2.3L Stroker, AEM EMS Converted to Speed Density, FP3065 Turbo, 35psi , and so on...

Ok guys, just think about it. The O2 sensor is after the combustion chamber. If the combustion has happened then it is too late. Given you can use the O2 to control the fuel map, but the O2 sensor is not the most reliable source. A MAP or MAF is much better.

ok... a MAP that can read boost or a MAS would be better, but we have to work with what we have. I really dont think you understand how quickly the o2 sensor can see whats going on though. And besides... like I said before, worst case scenereo is that you run rich for about a tenth of a second. Who cares... I'd say its pretty damn sweet considering it will save you the cost of an SAFC, EIC, eManage, DFI, etc etc... Personally I would be willing to bet money that this setup would work just as well with 440's as it does with the 310's, I mean it worked with Chris's 550's fer cryin out loud.

Matt
1995 Eclipse GS
2.0L, S16g Turbo, 8 Injectors, 26psi

1998 Eclipse GSX
2.3L Stroker, AEM EMS Converted to Speed Density, FP3065 Turbo, 35psi , and so on...

Ok, here are more results....Used a datalogger tonight to see whats up. I said hell with it and upped the idle fuel pressure to around 38 psi. It threw a code then drove around with it. At first it felt rich, it didnt have much power at all. within time it got much better, erased the code and all was ok...Took a short trip out to Matt_95tg's place to get the datalogger, but it ran pretty good on the highway, no codes, but still seemed to be too rich, not much power ect..So while idleing in the driveway, with 38 psi at idle, i was getting -16 to -20 short term fuel trim. Long term was at -25%. So this meant too much idle fuel pressure, too much fuel there, which made sense. So i lower the idle fuel pressure to about 30 psi, and right away the short term fuel trim dropped to about -6 to -10 percent at most. MUCH better, car pulls damn good now. I adjusted the bleed valve on the SFMU some for boosted pressure, and this is what we got on the way back home on the highway, about a good hour or so of driving. Short term fuel trim stayed pretty constant at -6%. Long term stayed around -23 to -25%. At 8 psi WOT in 5th gear- .90 o2, 4th gear was .92, third was .96, second and first was around 1 volt. The car pulls very well like this, at WOT and part throttle closed loop boost. No codes at all yet with that drive home, and driving all around tonight..I *may* put in the 2.4" disk in the SFMU, as i am using the 2.72" with bleeding off boost pressure, wich will most likely equal the 2.4" disk rise rate. The rise rate from full vac to 0 psi i think is still a bit too rich, but its not bad where its at now... Idle pressure is 30 psi @ 17hg's of vac, about 40 psi of fuel @ static (0 PSI). Car runs excellent..just a bit more fine tuning..then 10 psi

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

Get a datalogger. Fuel System Too Rich shows up when the LTFT hits a certain percentage correction for a lean condition.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

>Get a datalogger. Fuel System Too Rich shows up when the
>LTFT hits a certain percentage correction for a lean
>condition.

Hehe...huh??? man you gotta read my post

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)