this is all WHAT IF stuff now. alright, i hope to be runnin 15 psi here once i get the injectors. I know that for some reason after about 15 psi we need a standalone fuel system (could someone explain why). so if i ever want to get more power i pretty much have to spend 1000+ bucks to get there.

Now here is where the what if stuff comes into play. if i don't want to spend the $1000 to get the dfi could i through a 50-75 shot of nos on it? it is about half the price plus it looks cool sitting in the back of the car since i'm trying for a little show also. would i still need a standalone fuel system for that? or would a wet system be good enough for the nos?

I guess i'm a little confuesed why i cant run more that about 15 psi without a DFI.

thanks for your help

http://home.bendcable.com/optimuspeterson <<<<HRC Stage 2 and Star Instructions
95 Eclipse - SOLD | 93 BMW 318is - SOLD | 2000 S-10 Extreme on 20's - SOLD
93 Toyota/shaved/bagged/body dropped - SOLD | 97 GSX - SOLD
2006 Scion tC

You could probably run 15 psi without a complete fuel control system, with just an S-AFC or something, but you will not be able to run more than 15 psi. The Apexi S-AFC, for instance, isn't really (effectively) capable of controlling anything bigger than 500cc injectors. On top of my head, it has something to do with the impedance of the injectors and the AFC's effectiveness in regards to those parameters.

You could run 15 psi with 450-500 cc's, but what's going to control the fuel at idle? The Accel allows the user to conrol that idle fuel mixture (fuel map) at idle, WOT, and in between, as opposed to the S-AFC, which only controls the fuel curve at low and high throttle. With 500cc's or greater, your car probably wouldn't idle right with that much amount of fuel.

If you go with smaller injectors, that will minimize fuel flow at idle, but it probably won't provide enough fuel volume to allow you to run 15 psi. Using the S-AFC (when I was "stage 3"), I had 370cc injectors and a very high-flow fuel pump, at 10 psi. My car wouldn't idle or accelerate because there was too much--at idle. Instead of setting the low and high throttle percentage settings at certain points, I set the S-AFC from zero; that allowed me to adjust the LOW throttle from "zero" throttle, thus making the AFC control "idle" fuel.

This method worked, but I don't have any dyno numbers and dataloggings to prove that it works. Sorry for the long post.

Kon Chittavong
HRC: Stage IV | http://laoracer.homestead.com/mainpage.html

___________
Kon C

"Sometimes, a man has to do what a man has to do."

well so then waht are people suppose tod o when needed to boost more than 15 psi do. halltech does that work on our cars and if not what should someone do cuz 15 psi is awsome but not enough to do 11 or something like that right ?????

DsM Power Soon to be turbo yahhhhhh

if you have enough money you can have whatever the hell you want.

You should talk to Corbin about his EIC group buy. I see no reason why you wouldnt be able to run more than 15psi with that set up since the DFI just basically gives you more control over fuel delivery. At idle and vaccum you would only use the stock injectors (or replacements) and when entering boost the EIC comes in and dumps more fuel, using the secondary injectors, it makes it seem as if you have much larger injectors rather than the two smaller sets you actually have.

Toney
'97 RS 5 Speed (totaled)
15.4606@88.42 Mph
96 Toyota Celica GT
88 Toyota Supra NA-T (w/ sports package)
Got Boost?? Hell yeah I-6 turbo powah baby!

I'll agree with Toney. I don't know too much about the EIC setup, but it does seem to be a good setup. After all, the only thing the DFI will do right now is control fuel anyway--which sucks for a system that's over one grand! At this point, this EIC setup is probably the most economical way to go (in regards to fuel control). And the only other option now is the limited DFI, since AEM or TEC do not have anything for n/a Eclipse/Talons, YET.

Kon Chittavong
HRC: Stage IV | http://laoracer.homestead.com/mainpage.html

___________
Kon C

"Sometimes, a man has to do what a man has to do."

Ok, in your question you are asking about doing 15psi w/ out a stand-alone and adding a N2O system to up the power?

Your still adding more air to the engine w/ N20. You can turn your boost up on the turbo until you max it out as long as you have the fuel. And the s16g doesn't max out an 15psi.

Just think this way, fuel, fuel, fuel...

Getting air into the engine w/ the turbo isn’t a problem but adding fuel isn’t as easy. 15psi is going to be around the max w/o some type of piggy back or stand-alone.

If money is an issue I would say go w/ the 8 injectors. I was going to do that set up if HRC wasn't going to fix my DFI but they did so I have the DFI on. The only problem (or headache) is going to be the install and tuning of the system. It’s not an out of the box kit like the DFI but it is a hell of a lot cheaper than the DFI. After the DFI, 1:1 fpr, 4 625cc injectors, Power control unit, Calmap software I spent around 1650...then you have to get something for the spark like the MSD or Crane, that was another 700.00ish. So, if you are ready for a little work the 8 injector is the way to go if you’re low on funds.

I am currently in on the group buy for the EIC and as far as I know we still need 1-2 more people to commit before Corbin places the order. You should really check it out. You will definately be able to run more than 15 psi with this setup and you can do it for less money than an SAFC and 440's. You will be able to supply more fuel than you would ever need with this setup since you can add whatever size injectors you want in the lower intake plenem. Anyone interested in getting more fuel to their motor any time soon should seriously check into this group buy since it saves you 100 big ones.

Matt
1995 Eclipse GS
2.0L, S16g Turbo, 8 Injectors, 26psi

1998 Eclipse GSX
2.3L Stroker, AEM EMS Converted to Speed Density, FP3065 Turbo, 35psi , and so on...

You do not need a standalone to run more boost as long as you remember you must address timing as well as fuel. You can use a S-AFC, Corbins EIC setup which is excellent, or another option I am working on. Joe A. in Atlanta runs 18psi on his S16G using 440's and a S-AFC. That setup does run into some certain issues and limitations though. I have sold my standalone and already bought a Greddy E-Manage with MSD 50lb/hr injectors and am looking at running 18psi pump gas and 24psi race gas with a 60shot wet. If this works out, the E-Manage will control timing as well as fuel using the same 3 bar pressure sensor for both and is laptop programmable. Total cost for my setup was $900 for an E-Manage with all options ($600) and 4 brand new 50lb/hr injectors ($300) so it splits the difference between a standalone and a S-AFC in both price and complexity. Armond will be doing the work to get it all wired up. Should be a few weeks before it is done.

If you are going for extreme power, racing regularly, or using larger turbos, a standalone would start to make more sense and have a more justified cost. I came to this decision the hard way after having gone that route. They work great and allow an ultimately greater range of control and freedom, but do require more time and patience than I was able to invest with my current situation to obtain that freedom.

05 Mazda RX-8
06 Lotus Elise