Hello,
I've been thinking about the idea of having a 5 gallon "reserve" tank like bikes do when they run low on gas, only in this case, it would contain race gas and be manually switchable to from inside the car.. The idea is to be able to switch from 8-15 psi on pump gas to 20-30 on race gas + via electronic boost controller.. Is this idea too crazy to work, or does it have potential? And if so, is it real potential, or just if you have money up the butt potential?

Gary

Its called a secondary pick up. Its an old school trick used alot for methanol. It works but Its a crazy set up. late mike

stage BIG custom mj racing turbo set up, built block.worked head,all tial components, hks evcez,spearco 992,oh yeah and a huge bottle in the trunk last run all turbo 13.8@108 no nos dyno'd at AEBS in Cali with 300+ hp to the wheels

I think it could very feasable. You could use nitrous soleniods for turning on and off the separate fuel lines(i think those will work), and really all you have to do is run the lines and do the electrical for the solenoids and switches. This sounds like a fun project

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

i think it sounds like a very good idea........think corbin should get involved in this lol...

97 RS Star III(E) @15psi
JE pistons
Crower Rods
CF dual friction clutch
Apexi RS exhaust
race pipe (no cat)
B&M short shifter
HRC 500cc injectors
Vortech 3:1 FMU
Apexi S-AFC
TurboXS Dual stage MBC
fiberglass hood (with vents over turbo and inta

Hello..
the idea came up when i heard a friend of mine who ran a 12.022 on race gas lost to a thunderbird firehawk because he was forced to run lower psi due to pump gas..
So it is doable then.. hmm.. I'd be in on the project if it happens.. What'dyou think corbin? How doable is this for you? It doesn't sound too hard to me, but then again I don't know much about anything as far as creating stuff like you.. If you go for it, keep me updated

Gary

Then there's the problem? of where to mount the spare tank.. I guess a 2 gallon one would work as well.. if you're just street racing, you're not really going to need the 5.. plus the weight of 2 vs. 5 is great.. (jeff_99gs' thoughts)..
Would it be able to mounted in the spare tire well? Or would it be possible to fabricate a stock gas tank with 2 sections, one for the 2 gals of race, and the other side with regular??
Just some more things to ponder..

Gary

Yeah, not having race gas when you need it can be a problem, but you shouldnt be racing on the street anyways Do the mod, document it, and get back to us, sounds fun.

Gary, we already talked about this, but I've been thinking about it since then... I think modding the stock fuel tank would be a pain in the ass. Plus you would need another fuel pump and a way of mounting it.

How about a fuel cell? That seems to be the best idea. It can fit in the wheel well with some modification. As long as you can figure out how to switch from the two fuel systems, it should work.

Heh, heh...this is an interesting idea. Not anything I would get involved in, so you're on your own Gary. I would go with the previous suggestions:

A proper fuel cell with secure mounting
Solenoid valves
Idiot proof switches (so you can't make a mistake)

Be very careful with the fuel line routing and wiring. If you do it wrong, you could be in for a world of hurt. You want to make sure everything is crash proof too. You don't want to get in an crash with a jury-rigged gas tank inside the car with you.


Corbin

'95 ESI-T
HRC+FMIC+ETC...



Gimme fuel...Gimme fire...Gimme that which I desire

Corbin
'97 GSX dressed like a '95 ESi

*slap*. I meant spare tire well, not the wheel well.

Would it be possible to run two seperate gas lines and two fuel pumps and be able to swtich between the two? Tell me more about these solenoids.. I've been thinking about this alllll day long, and last night at sleep time too

Gary

have a fuel line going to each gas tank.........then have them both connect to the same fuel line at a certain point using a "Y" bracket.........and have the thing that switches there......I'm sure we could make something like that, that would work...
(two lines connect to one) depending on which button is pushed, you're gas would vary in octane

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-Mike Pruett
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"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
- General George Patton (1885-1945)

I can't get this idea out of my head... Jaz makes some fuel cells..
Any recommended brands?

Gary

Um... isn't this the same as NAWS?

I mean, I get the point, I love running high octane on the street but really, if you want more powah from a button, just use a system that's already been relatively safety-tested.

use PROPANE, they already make kits for that. and its what like 128 octane.

You might also want to talk to alain the guy making the manifolds he is using water injection and has done quite a bit of research into this.

heres one http://duramax.bizhosting.com/My_Truck/propane_injection.htm

1998 dodge avenger 4 cyl AT
Mods are:
Not enough

why not do it like extra injectors and have them spit the race gas

I edited to the wiki!

Hey Corbin,
Would it be possible to go with the 8 injector setup, and have the additional 4, going to a fuel cell and have them controlled by the EIC?

Gary

I've read plenty of magazine articles in which they used a methanol injection system, I think one of them was the Sport Compact Car or whatever when they had the Skyline running it. Said it's tough to figure out but when it's working right it runs really well. I think if you just want that extra power every once in a while you might as well hook up a nitrous system. I don't really agree with street racing but I guarantee the N20 will make up the difference in running low psi. Especially when you consider how low the intake charge would be on nitrous, you could probably turn the boost up a pound or two right there.

I'm not Corbin but I think setting up the 8 injectors with 4 working from a fuel cell might not be that bad. You'd need a totally separate pump, lines, and a separate fuel rail to run the race gas. But with the 8 injector setup, you are utilizing the first 4 injectors plus the additional 4. So all in all, you wouldn't be turning the octane up that high, you'd be mixing your 110 octane or whatever with the pump 93. It wouldn't atomize correctly (I don't think anyway) and then there could be problems. Maybe I'm wrong, I'm only an engineering major. Just my thoughts.

Luke

1998 Mustang GT 5-speed
2002 Lone Star Shelby Cobra Replica

I typed up a really nice long response to this. I lost the whole f'ing thing when I backed up to re-read a previous post. The gist of it is:

If you really think about all that is involved in getting all the proper fluids to the intake manifold and back to the tank (return type system), you are talking about a VERY complex system. Tuning would be NUTS. There are alot of details here that could make this very difficult.

Definitely consider the options of propane or water.


Corbin

'95 ESI-T
HRC+FMIC+ETC...



Gimme fuel...Gimme fire...Gimme that which I desire

Corbin
'97 GSX dressed like a '95 ESi

What're the differences between propane & water, vs NOS?

Gary

PS: Last night I had a dream that I was driving andyour car flew by
mine Corbin hahaha

>What're the differences between propane & water, vs NOS?
>

I believe propane and NO2 are applied by similar means. Both must be combined with the proper amount of additional fuel to make power without melting your engine. Kind of like cramming a whole lot of air into your engine; you need to add the appropriate amount of fuel. You do this to increase power.

Water injection is mainly done to fight detonation with higher boost levels. You could run more boost on pump gas if you properly injected water into the intake track. This might suite your needs.

>PS: Last night I had a dream that I was driving andyour car
>flew by
> mine Corbin hahaha

I have car dreams too when I've got a new project on my mind...otherwise I have insane dreams about killing zombies with a bread knife...I guess playing Resident Evil will do that to you

Corbin

'95 ESI-T
HRC+FMIC+ETC...



Gimme fuel...Gimme fire...Gimme that which I desire

Corbin
'97 GSX dressed like a '95 ESi

I have insane dreams about killing zombies
>with a bread knife...I guess playing Resident Evil will do
>that to you


hahaha... thats hilarious. Funny that I just happened to pop RE1 in the Play Station today for a quick blast to the past

hmm.. water injection.. are there any current users of this type of setup on the board?

Gary

btw: Your car was really fast in my dream, it flew by me like i was driving a motorized shopping cart