After im done spaying I have to go turbo, I miss it to much. What HRC kit would I need to get me in the mid 12 second range without slicks, no weight reduction, and some 17s?

Reason im asking I was told the times that HRC has for each stage were ran on slicks.

tia

BTW, the only mods would be a nice custom mandrel bent catback along with the kit itself.

Greg did 12.8 with slicks and about $10k into his engine.

------------------------------------------------
98 ESi
95 GS

yeah your looking at stage 3 at least, and thats with turning the boost up quite a bit, definitely need internals, stockers wont cut it, get the engine rebuilt with rods/pistons/bearings/rings/headgasket, etc.

1998 dodge avenger 4 cyl AT
Mods are:
Not enough

16G will not be enough to get you into 12's. 20G will do the job though. This is where the Star Kit shines IMHO.

Star Stage II, 2.5 catback with testpipe, AFX pulley/Bored TB, Howell bottom end kit, Vortech 4:1 fmu disc/ring, 440 injectors and S-AFC, MSD dis 2 with timing retard, Clutchmasters Stage 4 clutch.

You might need at least drag radials to put the power to the ground.

Run 18 psi on a mix of 2 parts 93 pump gas to 1 part C116 race gas.

It still might not get you into 12's, because of limited traction. You could hang from a roll with any other 12 second car though.

It might take a limited slip diff to put the power to both wheels to get this done.

I do not have a 12 second car and this is my just my opinion. Just one thing to shoot for, if you can get a 1.8 sec 60 foot time, you are well on your way to being in the 12's if you have the top end.

I have seen a few 2G GSX turbo cars running 550 injectors, S-AFC, 2.5 turbo back exhausts, 20G turbo, front mount intercooler(side mount supra), on street tires(not drag radials), boosting 25 psi on a mix of pump/race gas, even stock bottom end and head, running 1.5/1.6 second 60 ft times and mid/high 12's in the quarter. Gotta love AWD.

97 RS(PTE SC-61, Built Long Block, Electromotive Tec 3)It's Here!

Deano, not to pick at your words, but a 16G is quite capable to get an RS/GS deep into the 12's. We ran 12.40's with the Super 16G and side mount intercooler in our Stage IV Turbosystem. Stage IV is a complete, well-tested system that includes ALL needed components and therefore requires no experimentation: ours is the only product of this type on the market.

Same Stage IV Turbosystem on Len Ayala's Neon went 11.60's.

Boost It!
Bill Hahn Jr.

Bill Hahn Jr.
98 RS Turbo: 10.87 @ 136 MPH
HRC Stage V with N20
Nation's Fastest Street FWD 2G DSM
www.turbosystem.com

Is this on a stock transmission, street tires and 17 inch wheels?

My point was that he would be lucky to get under a 2.0 sixty foot time with the setup above and the only way to make up time would be to have a killer topend.

If I was ever going to go with a HRC Stage IV, I would drop the extra bucks for a 20G turbo. This is still not a big turbo when it comes to drag racing, but would be more effecient for the topend power he is looking for.

Thanks for your input.....always good to hear from you guys.

97 RS(PTE SC-61, Built Long Block, Electromotive Tec 3)It's Here!

>16G will not be enough to get you into 12's. 20G will do the
>job though. This is where the Star Kit shines IMHO.
>
Deano, I had another look at the poster's original question, and saw that it did include street tires, as you mention. While we did run mid/low 12's on a stock trans and 17" wheels in the ol' RS, we also used narrow 17" slicks. Based on what I have seen, this same car would have lost two tenths or so with street tires (going from 1.8 60fts to 2.0), so we are still in the mid twelves. But, this is with a very skilled driver and an admittedly highly optimized car, so real-world average results will likely be a bit slower. For the sake of discussion, I would put an HRC Stage IV car with street tires in the high 12's. As an aside, with Stage IV on pump gas we were still in the 12's on the narrow slicks and about 15 PSI of boost!

I suppose what really prompted me to comment was you saying that this is where the other kit 'shines'. Again, not to pick, but I am unaware of an available version of this other system that includes all of the needed components to run 12's, unlike the Stage IV HRC which does, in fact, contain everything one needs in a well-tested, complete package. I do not wish to turn this into the same old this vs. that thread, so please forgive me if this distinction seems trivial, but it's quite important to me, as I did all of the testing and development, and it took quite some time!

Bill Hahn Jr.
98 RS Turbo: 10.87 @ 136 MPH
HRC Stage V with N20
Nation's Fastest Street FWD 2G DSM
www.turbosystem.com

Thanks for the reply. I stand corrected. Hard to debate numbers or timeslips I would also like to comment on your research. You have been pioneers in the 420A department. Without your inputs and hard work, we(420A community)might not have any kits to choose from. Everyone else is making a copy of yours. As a member of 2gnt, I like to take others research and refine it for my needs and find the most cost effective road to take. Actually, I worship you guys!

Star Stage 1(e-trim), Starion front mount, piping/couplings/clamps, autometer dash bezel/egt/boost, silicone hose kits, TurboXS-HP boost controller, Accel 30LB injectors, Vortech 8:1 fmu disc/ring, BKR7E11 plugs, intercooler/BOV/manifold welding fees, fuel pump rewire parts, RRE catch can, TTI racing manifold gasket and stainless manifold bolts.

Total cost is $2600. I used new parts except for the Starion front mount. I have plenty of fuel for 10psi boost on the T3/T04E and maybe enough for 12psi(bottom end might not like it though-still factory)

Without HRC and people from this board, I would not have attempted to do this. Thank you.

97 RS(PTE SC-61, Built Long Block, Electromotive Tec 3)It's Here!

If you have no other mods, and want to run street tires and zero weight reduction, you'll need at least a Hahn RaceCraft stage V turbo system.
Having no traction and an open differential will severely handicap any power you will be making.
Probably run mid 12's @ 140 mph

I think a nicely tuned stage III set-up can see 12's. Actually, I know it can. If NitrousRS_1997 reads this, tell them what you ran. I believe he ran a 12.9 on ~15psi with nitto drag radials. Traction is going to be your biggest problem, if you can hook up(which you won't on ~15psi w/ street tires), then thats when you will see your targeted times. Oh, and NitrousRS_1997 had the 16G if you were wondering

Len- I plan on getting a Quaifle diff in the future to get all the power to both wheels.

Bill- On your website it states that for your Stage 3 system I can see 12s and that all your runs on the track were with 17s and daily driven there. Did you pull that off when the RS was Stage 3?

I know your way beyond Stage 3 rite now but I am just curious. It also says that your Stage 3 has a 20g option, do you think I will be able to see 12s easyer with the 20g and your Stage 3 fuel system than with the 16g?

Are all your 16g turbos the bigger 16g's that are available? I've noticed differences in some internals of alot of 16g turbos by just looking at them.

tia

Strauss, you're right, i ran that time with a 16g. i would say "low" twelves woule be harder, but possible.and also, the car is probably faster than that, i never claimed to be even close to the best driver in the world. the RS is down right now for what we call a "little" turbo upgrade... (and it was a 12.8 hehe)

1997 Silver RS
Built
T3/T4 BB Turbo
20psi
Most current 1/8th mile time: 8.1@93mph 2.015 60'
1996 Black Supra TT
2004 Silver Snake

Nitrous_RS1997, what boost level was that on? If I remember correctly, you were on 16psi correct? And you were running 440's and an AFC at the time, correct? And, I remember your speed being near 115mph, that is extemely high! If you would, could you email with your set-up at the time of that run? As you can see, i've been following your car closely Thanks man...strauss95@hotmail.com

you got mail man. i just noticed what you have done to your car lately...WHOAA!! that thing is gonna haul too. guess nitrous is sorda a "gateway" power adder huh? easy to get, then ya want more!! the run was at 15psi, on a race/pump mix(just to be safe). MPH was 115.XX, dont remember exactly, ill try and find the slip again and tell for sure. i gotta go, takin the Supra tothe track for the first time tonight...

1997 Silver RS
Built
T3/T4 BB Turbo
20psi
Most current 1/8th mile time: 8.1@93mph 2.015 60'
1996 Black Supra TT
2004 Silver Snake

Cool shit man! Post those times you get with that beast. Give us all the details, you know like....60' times,pounds of boost, drags/street tires......I'm curoius as to what she'll do! Good luck...

Well, im finally back from the track. i am BEAT right now. first off, there was a LOOOT of cars there tonight. i only got to make 2 runs, cause we got there a little later than we should have. here it is:
1.719 60ft
7.362@103.64 1/8th mile
11.015@ 135.64 1/4 mile
This was on a BORROWED set of drag radials(only ones i have are for the RS!) 25psi, and 93octane pump gas with a little race gas thrown in for good measure... with new drag tires, my 60' could be lower, getting me into 10's hopefully. i could also run "almost" straight race gas and run upwards or 30-33 or so psi, but i sorda like this engine.. im really happy with it, it was actually pretty scary too! (imma wuss!) now she is backed back down to 18psi and ready to go to work monday... but ill hopefully have the RS back running by then.

1997 Silver RS
Built
T3/T4 BB Turbo
20psi
Most current 1/8th mile time: 8.1@93mph 2.015 60'
1996 Black Supra TT
2004 Silver Snake

That is just staight up MEDIVAL! Damn man, 10's!!!!!! You are crazy, I'm just hopin' to get into the 12's! Well, of course you are driving a Supra Nice times man, I'm proud of ya!

Yow! Supras ARE amazing. I had a scare there when I saw those times and thought he was referring to the RS. Thought I was deposed!

Good job!


Bill

Bill Hahn Jr.
98 RS Turbo: 10.87 @ 136 MPH
HRC Stage V with N20
Nation's Fastest Street FWD 2G DSM
www.turbosystem.com

HAHA! i could only WISH the RS was running that fast. as stated above, its best is a 12.8. jeez, i said that like i was disappointed or something! but, its awaiting a bigger turbo now. Bill, i know you are probably a little "partial" to the 20g, and i understand that, but how does it compare to the flow/HP ratings of,say, a T04? i cant decide which turbo to upgrade to on it. i want to get low 12's, possibly high 11's on some slicks. also throwing in a Quaiffe LSD since my tranny is toast again! thanks for any input. Supras ARE pretty amazing, but i STILL get a bigger smile when the boost hits in the RS, cause it was more hard work.

1997 Silver RS
Built
T3/T4 BB Turbo
20psi
Most current 1/8th mile time: 8.1@93mph 2.015 60'
1996 Black Supra TT
2004 Silver Snake

>HAHA! i could only WISH the RS was running that fast. as
>stated above, its best is a 12.8. jeez, i said that like i
>was disappointed or something! but, its awaiting a bigger
>turbo now. Bill, i know you are probably a little "partial"
>to the 20g, and i understand that, but how does it compare
>to the flow/HP ratings of,say, a T04? i cant decide which
>turbo to upgrade to on it. i want to get low 12's, possibly
>high 11's on some slicks.

First off, let me congratulate you on running 12.8 with your RS. Fine job!

I suppose we are partial to the 20G, but for good reasons. It is decades ahead of the Garrett compressors and turbines used in T3/T4 (you would not want a pure T04, as the turbine choices there are even more dated). What do I mean by decades ahead? The Garrett parts were developed in the 1960's. The Mitsubishi units, in the late 1980's and 90's, and are much more modern by design.

As far as flow vs. efficiency, the Mitsu wins. Should you wish something larger than Super 20G (if you want more than 500 HP), we can offer a Super 25G. Such a large turbo (25G) also needs other supporting mods: we will counsel with you on your needs.

In your case, it gets better: Your existing HRC turbo can be converted to Super 20G configuration quickly and inexpensively, a pure bolt-in. We can also provide an effective fuel solution: no trial-and-error, this is a tested and verified setup. Such a setup with FMIC will set you in the mid 11's with slicks!

Bill Hahn Jr.
98 RS Turbo: 10.87 @ 136 MPH
HRC Stage V with N20
Nation's Fastest Street FWD 2G DSM
www.turbosystem.com

Thank you for the info Bill. Ill be getting in touch with you about that Super 20g sometime in the near future. on a different note, do you ever sell just pieces(ie. manifold, brakcets etc..) of your kit, or do you only sell the whole kit? thanks a lot for your time.

1997 Silver RS
Built
T3/T4 BB Turbo
20psi
Most current 1/8th mile time: 8.1@93mph 2.015 60'
1996 Black Supra TT
2004 Silver Snake

At this time, we do not sell separate components...yet! As all the parts we can make are currently consumed by turbosystem orders, we can't sell them separately, lest we affect system lead times. But, as we increase production, this may change. Thanks for asking!

Boost It!
Bill

Bill Hahn Jr.
98 RS Turbo: 10.87 @ 136 MPH
HRC Stage V with N20
Nation's Fastest Street FWD 2G DSM
www.turbosystem.com

99Eclipse: Yes, our Stage III went into the 12's on 17" slicks.

Some other info: our best on Stage II with street tires was mid to high 13's. We dropped to low 13's on Stage II with the slicks, and became much more consistent, of course!

Regarding your question on Stage III with 20G: we have been experimenting and have a new offering: Stages II thru IV are now available with 20G option! And for those who are not satisfied with a maximum of 500 HP (20G), our new Super 25G is another option. Info on these upgrades will be soon posted to our website.

Our Super 16G turbos use the standard 16G compressor, as opposed to the 'Big 16G'. As we are a leading Mitsu turbo distributor, we have the straight talk on these units, and the 'Big 16G' is not a good choice. Its efficiency suffers badly at the HP range one expects a 16G to accomodate. See this link for info:

http://hrchahnracecraft.com/hahn/parts/turbo.htm

Check the efficiency chart. See how the Super 16G kills the 'Big 16G'? This is why we do not carry them. When we need a bigger unit, we simply move to the very effective Super 20G (a 20G supplies about 25% more airflow at maximum output that a 16G, so it's not a huge step by any means).

Bill Hahn Jr.
98 RS Turbo: 10.87 @ 136 MPH
HRC Stage V with N20
Nation's Fastest Street FWD 2G DSM
www.turbosystem.com

A stage 2 w/ a 20g option thats bad ass.

What do you think would be easyer for me to run consistant 12s with? Your stage 3 fuel system and a 16g or with the 20g?

tia

I also take it you do not sell the "big" 16g but offer the better super 16g is this correct?

tia

99Eclipse: I see you doing the most with a 20G Stage III. This also leaves you room to further increase HP in the future should you so choose.

Yes, we do not carry the Big 16G. Super 16G only!

Bill Hahn Jr.
98 RS Turbo: 10.87 @ 136 MPH
HRC Stage V with N20
Nation's Fastest Street FWD 2G DSM
www.turbosystem.com

hey HRC. well i IM'd you but i didnt get a reply i might have sent it wrong or sumthin but i was wundering if yu might have a clue what is wrong with my hrc stg 2. i feel full boost at around 3000 rpm's but it basicaly all dies out by the time rpm's reach 5200. whats up with that? this is really limiting my power. i barly beat my friends civic h/b si. lil help plz TIA!


"Proud to be, a 2gnt"


-mitsuman

Performance:
1. HRC STG 2
2. Greddy Power Extreme
exhaust
3. Blits Super Sound BOV
4. HKS Turbo timer

Ride:
1. motegi mr7 17'' wrapped
in yokohama A550v
235/45/17

Sound:
1. sony xplod cdxm620 deck
2. 2 10'' audiobahn subs
3. nice shiny audiobahn
amp

In room:
1. blitz front end(thnx 2
eclipse804)
2. H&R sport springs(thnx 2
eclipse804)

Fun mods:
1. "Nozzel mod"

Wanted:
1. to much ish to list... but a
boy can dream

-mitsuman 95 GS 5-spd w/97-99 front end
Repin The SoCal 2GNT'ers
mitsuman95@hotmail.com
AIM s/n : mitsuman95gs

The most likely problem is spark plugs and/or wires...very common on these cars. If that does not work, contact Tech Support: tech@turbosystem.com or 630-801-9065 any weekday afternoon. We can help!

Bill Hahn Jr.
98 RS Turbo: 10.87 @ 136 MPH
HRC Stage V with N20
Nation's Fastest Street FWD 2G DSM
www.turbosystem.com

cool thnx ill try that.


"Proud to be, a 2gnt"


-mitsuman

Performance:
1. HRC STG 2
2. Greddy Power Extreme
exhaust
3. Blits Super Sound BOV
4. HKS Turbo timer

Ride:
1. motegi mr7 17'' wrapped
in yokohama A550v
235/45/17

Sound:
1. sony xplod cdxm620 deck
2. 2 10'' audiobahn subs
3. nice shiny audiobahn
amp

In room:
1. blitz front end(thnx 2
eclipse804)
2. H&R sport springs(thnx 2
eclipse804)

Fun mods:
1. "Nozzel mod"

Wanted:
1. to much ish to list... but a
boy can dream

-mitsuman 95 GS 5-spd w/97-99 front end
Repin The SoCal 2GNT'ers
mitsuman95@hotmail.com
AIM s/n : mitsuman95gs

Bill- how much could I boost safely with the 20g and your stage 3 fuel system with 94 octain in the tank?

I might go turbo sooner than I planed on..

tia

Anyone else know? Dino, etc..