HRC, can we order the in line pump kit? =)


l e o n

i just want to say that it was definately not my intention to discredit any kit manufacturer. as more of us go turbo, some will try to build custom kits or mix-n-match parts to try to get the best of both worlds or to be 'one-up' on the guy down the street. i just wanted to point out a potential trouble area that could be easily avoided by doing a little home-work.

Ok, here is my take on this whole topic of fuel pressure, larger injectors, and shotty fuel pumps.

Obviously, HRC has done the most amount of homework on their kits. But, i still disagree with how either of the setups can truly be good. You are pushing in excess of 100 lbs. of fuel pressure through injectors not really meant to see over maybe 60-70 lbs. Does it work? Yes. But, at that kind of pressure, it can cause injector lock up, leakage, and i would assume injector failure. Something i don't think you would want to see on a turbo car.

So, my opinion on what would remedy this...

stock block--Well, it seems chris has a setup that works pretty well doesn't he? he even has dyno's to prove it. You want to get something safe and reliable for 10-12 lbs. of boost? Get some 400 CC injectors, a super AFC, and an adjustable FMU if you bought the star kit. turn down the base idle pressure so the AFC doesn't have to do as much work, set it at a lower gain rate than the typical 12:1, and use the AFC to fine tune everything? Chris, am i correct in this is how your car is setup?

if you want to safely run 10 lbs. and not deal with the electronics, get the 310 CC injectors that our computer can compensate for, or at least supposedly compensate for. I'd really like to know if this truly works right or not.

Built motor--well, if you don't plan on racing it and trying to hit the 11's, then the setup above would probably be quite adaquate. But, if you want to get to where Hahn is at, you are gonna need a setup similiar to hahns, which is the accel DFI that comes with their stage IV and V kits. The other option is a standalone like the haltech. I am opting for a haltech e6kbecause you can tune the timing as well as the fuel. I have one ordered, and hope to have it ready to be installed by spring. I will definitely keep you posted on how it goes. But to seriously be able to get enough fuel to run those kind of numbers like i know people like wyatt are trying to do, you are gonna need some large injectors, like 625's (hahns) or some 660s or 720s. There is no real way to control injectors this large without a standalone? am i correct HRC?

My ideal setup would be a sheet metal intake manifold with 8 injectors, 4-310 cc's to run at normal off boost operation to keep it more streetable, and 4-550's for boost. Then use the haltech to controll it. Would make for a pretty intersting ride i would think.

ANyway, i have rambled on here long enough, if anyone wants to correct me on any of this, i would be glad to hear it.


jason
95 GS turbo


hehehe...beater car...

I JUST read that 8 injector setup somewhere, Jason. Maybe the neon boards??

We've been slumbing in the same districts, I see. hehehe. I know from I prior aim chats that you've definitly done some homework on this.

The bottom line though on running the +100psi of fuel through the stockers is that it's at least been tested by HRC. Some people refer to this happening, but I have yet to hear of an instance of it occurring. (not saying it sin't possible, maybe just unlikely) I know that many are running high amounts of fuel with the HRC kit and all is going well.

I myself like the sounds of bigger injectors(440cc) and some S-AFC help.


Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)


http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

Yeah, i see we are playing around here at the same time. Like i said, HRC has done their homework which is great, i wish star would have done theirs as well, but for the price difference, i guess i can see why. Whether or not it will happen, is something i can't say. I have read it can happen, and i bet if you ask some honda kats who seem to have been turboing cars alot longer than us, i bet they will say it can happen. But, only time will tell, but, since i plan to do a haltech, i ain't gonna worry about it.

as for the 8 injector deal..alot of racers do it. like brent rau? you guys know him right, or sean glazar?

jason
95 GS turbo

LAST EDITED ON 29-Jan-01 AT 02:37 PM (PST)

hey 95esi,

I think HRC had already posted that they were making their fuel system available to the public. You can choose to just get their fuel pump, or the whole shabang, I think. Anyhow, here's the string I was talking about:

http://www.2gnt.com/dcforum/DCForumID16/170.html

And Hoot,

I don't think anyone including HRC thinks you either intentionally or unintentionally discredited any kit. If anything, I think you have done an OUTSTANDING job illuminating many of us with your fuel pressure figures, including myself. Besides, I've been trying to find some answers or clues as to why it seems like "more" STAR kits had a tendency to detonate as opposed to HRC owners. IT seems you may have stumbled upon a sort of "breakthrough" for us. Knowledge is power, my friend. So I think some people can "owe ya one." As a matter of fact, thank you.

We just gotta pick on you Avenger owners is all.


Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)


http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

Hell yes, Hoot! Good info. Please forgive my tone if I came off "superior"; I am always on the lookout for ways to keep my boyz out of trouble.

Thanks for bringing this issue further into the open!

And as for the question from Jason 95 GS about standalone systems being required to run large injectors: Yes and no. How's that for definitive!

But seriously: we use an ACCEL-DFI, which is a standalone. This setup can control virtually any size single injector, or staged operation with two sets of injectors. We use it for anything above 500cc injectors on these cars. On Len's Neon, it controls 800cc injectors and also controls / provides fuel enrichment for the car's 100 HP stage of N20.

Bill Hahn Jr.
98 RS Turbo: 10.87 @ 136 MPH
HRC Stage V with N20
Nation's Fastest Street FWD 2G DSM
www.turbosystem.com

thanks for the praise guys.

"you like me... you really like me." remember her? LOL

but to get the record straight, i own a SEBRING!

LAST EDITED ON 30-Jan-01 AT 03:43 AM (PST)

stock block--Well, it seems chris has a setup that works pretty well doesn't he? he even has dyno's to prove it. You want to get something safe and reliable for 10-12 lbs. of boost? Get some 400 CC injectors, a super AFC, and an adjustable FMU if you bought the star kit. turn down the base idle pressure so the AFC doesn't have to do as much work, set it at a lower gain rate than the typical 12:1, and use the AFC to fine tune everything? Chris, am i correct in this is how your car is setup?



Yeah that sounds right. Fyi, its turned down to 35psi at idle. But damnit, I'm running 17psi, pump gas, daily driven, HRC sidemount!!! And quite hard I might add. I never take it easy on my car.

You think I will last like this Bill? I mean this fuel setup at this high boost. I can't let Armond and his 'Avenger' get too much faster than me or it will go to his head and all those other Avenger guys . I already enjoy whooping up on his almighty Stealth Twin Turbo Am I going to make it on race gas with this setup and 24psi? I was originally thinking of just going to a 500cc or something like that and use the AFC. Perhaps I should start looking into the Accell myself.

MuRiX
97 Eclipse GS HRC Stage II
And a whole lot of other mods...
89 Accord LSi - yes it's mine
http://murix.home.icq.com/index.html

05 Mazda RX-8
06 Lotus Elise

did u rebuild your bottom end to run 17 psi?

l e o n

Hrmmm.

I think I did....
From my webpage under mods....

Performance Mod's:

Engine:

HRC Super 16G
HRC sidemount intercooler (ApexI FMIC IC to go on soon)
HRC upper/lower IC piping
HRC exhaust manifold
K&N intake
AEM cam gears
Copper Head gasket
Crower Rods
JE 8.8:1 Pistons
Port/Polish
Blueprint/Balance
Blitz BOV

Ignition:
NGK BKR6E
NGK 8mm Wires
Optima Blue top
MSD DIS-2

Exhaust:
Custom 2.5" downpipe
Tanabe G-Medallion 70mm cat-back exhaust

Fuel:
Inline Fuel pump
Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator
400CC Fuel Injectors
VC-1

Electronics/Gauges:
ApexI Super AFC
Greddy Profec B
Blitz FATT
PSI boost guage
Autometer A/F gauge
Autometer EGT

Transmission:
Custom carbon-kevlar 4-puck clutch - non-modular
Short shift kit

Suspension:
Energy Suspension Polyurethane Motor mounts
H&R Sport springs
Tokico adjustable struts
Ingalls Camber Kit front
RRE Camber Kit rear
Front/Rear Strut Tower Brace (Lower tie bar on the way)
TSW Revo 17x8
Falken GRB 225/45ZR17

Brakes:
GSX 2-Piston Calipers
Powerslot Rotors
MetalMaster brake pads

Crap that doesn't help my performance-

Trust Blue Shift knob
Trust Blue Oil Cap
Goodridge Blue Silicone Hoses
Racing pedals
Ignited starter button
Carbon fiber dashkit
NR white face gauges
Eclipse by Fujitsu Ten CD Player
Alpine alarm system
Smoked taillenses
Clear corners
Projector headlights

Most of this was done since 99. I have a new round of mods to do before the shootout, mainly for some more traction

MuRiX
97 Eclipse GS HRC Stage II
And a whole lot of other mods...
89 Accord LSi - yes it's mine
http://murix.home.icq.com/index.html

05 Mazda RX-8
06 Lotus Elise

Murix: As long as you are able to achieve correct A/F ratios with your setup under boost, you should have no problem. I can help determine more tuning parameters for you if you email me: eng@turbosystem.com.

Bill Hahn Jr.
98 RS Turbo: 10.87 @ 136 MPH
HRC Stage V with N20
Nation's Fastest Street FWD 2G DSM
www.turbosystem.com

is it possible to just run the Accel fuel pump with the star kit and just sell the walbro that comes with it? would this solve the injector problem and allow 10-12psi? shouldnt this be considerably cheaper than buying $350 worth of injectors and then a SAFC, plus you cold install this from the get-go and get the correct fuel setup that HRC picked to run the perfect star setup, problem-free (this seems to be the only problem with the star kit ive seen so far)
http://www.geocities.com/blue2gnt
blue2gnt@hotmail.com AOL IM - ThreeRedDiamonds

1995 Eclipse GS - HRC Stage 2 - Retired.
2004 350z Enthusiast / 2008 Nissan Versa SL

Of course you could use an inline instead of the Walbro in-tank, but hell, you could just run the Walbro and the Accell... that's what I would do if I already had a Walbro in-tank (which I will, and from what I'm hearing, I may also get one of these accell units too).


1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / Body Components by Aerogear / Coated in Magnetic Red Metallic v2 - More at http://home.insightbb.com/~mgalyan/
Mark Galyan - Greenwood, Indiana

Who are you talking to? This thread is 2 years old

c'mon now. At least someone is searching the archives.


95 Eclipse RS : 5 speed
Jeep TB writeup - http://www.dimensia.com:81/jimbo/JeepTBfor2gnt.html

HAHAHAHA
This is too funny...

Nick

What the hell... how did it get to the top of the list... didn't even look at the dates...

1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / Body Components by Aerogear / Coated in Magnetic Red Metallic v2 - More at http://home.insightbb.com/~mgalyan/
Mark Galyan - Greenwood, Indiana

Whoa. Old school thread alert.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

word up

dsm/mitsubishi service manuals https://www.mediafire.com/folder/5k14qlaulb9s1/dsm_mitsubishi

service manuals(my whole collection) https://www.mediafire.com/folder/ac51jwwa3g1n1/automotive_manuals

Well somehow this got to the top of the list, and I didn't pay attention to the dates, lol. Anyway, this is a great post. I had no idea that the Walbro 255 would be insufficient with stock injectors at higher boost levels. Guess I'll be ordering 30# injectors with my kit from Motofool.... only like 90 bucks more anyway, and I won't have to buy a SAFC or e-manage yet.


1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / Body Components by Aerogear / Coated in Magnetic Red Metallic v2 - More at http://home.insightbb.com/~mgalyan/
Mark Galyan - Greenwood, Indiana

That's the whole point of this thread - the 255 is fine at 5-6psi (stock STAR boost) but anything more and it can't flow enough at those pressures. Bigger injectors, with lower pressures, and you're once again back in the acceptable range in with the 255.

I can't beleive this thread is already two and a half years old..

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

About how much pressure would you need @ 8 psi of boost with 310cc injectors? How do you find out these numbers anyway?

1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / Body Components by Aerogear / Coated in Magnetic Red Metallic v2 - More at http://home.insightbb.com/~mgalyan/
Mark Galyan - Greenwood, Indiana

>About how much pressure would you need @ 8 psi of boost with
>310cc injectors? How do you find out these numbers anyway?
>

check out Corbin's site
http://www.geocities.com/vttalon/tech.html

dsm/mitsubishi service manuals https://www.mediafire.com/folder/5k14qlaulb9s1/dsm_mitsubishi

service manuals(my whole collection) https://www.mediafire.com/folder/ac51jwwa3g1n1/automotive_manuals

This was obviously pre "corbin's-fabricate-o-rama"

Old School 2GNTer
Now rockin an 05 SRT-4