Hey guys....been a while since I've posted. Just upgraded to MSII and trying to plan ahead for higher boost.
What are you guys using for knock detection? After searching, I came up with some options.
1. The knock sensor circuit for MS that you have to build 2. Some type of scanner (like a pocketlogger) to read stock computer 3. Headphones with a "stethescope" of sorts to listen for knock 4. Knocksense (http://www.viatrack.ca/) although Dougie2 reported this as not working well because it's too sensitive 5. MSD knock box 6. Absolutly nothing.
Opinions?
Thanks in advance, Brian
Red 97 Eclipse GS (420a) MTX Custom Garrett T3 Turbo system Megasquirt w/52 lb/hr injectors & a Walbro 255 Kicker/Alpine Audio (3 amps, 2 subs) 90 Cav 2.2 TBI auto (winter) <- yeah, it's fast
#101866, "RE: Knock detection" In response to Reply # 0 Nov-01-07 03:04 AM by DarkOne
Originally posted by ForceFed420a 6. Absolutly nothing.
S'what I use. Though, I have heard good things about the MSD knock box.
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'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco) '95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor) '97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control) '99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater) '13 Evo X (mostly stock) '17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)
#101881, "RE: Knock detection" In response to Reply # 1
I'll second the KnockSense - picks up knock when my Snap-On scanner says there is none, and doesn't when the scanner shows there is. I have it mounted about right under the stock sensor, as far as location. May just be the sensor though, talkin with someone who's gonna try tapping the stock knock sensor for the Knocksense - we'll see how that goes!
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'95 GS w/ t3/t4b FMIC, diy piping & RFL BOV MS2-Extra Fuel&Spark 50 lb/hr Holley injectors w/ 1:1 RRFPR JE 8.8:1 dish w/ Hastings Rings Eagle Rods w/ ARP bolts ARP Head studs Mild port/polish head 3" custom DP/cat section, 3" PIT catback dual MBC - 12 psi / 20psi
#101884, "RE: Knock detection" In response to Reply # 2
Originally posted by justins71 talkin with someone who's gonna try tapping the stock knock sensor for the Knocksense
They're doing that on the Neon boards, and they're still saying it's misleading. They're heading towards the stethescope idea (they call them "det cans"). Easy to make, and you can hear it long before it's audible in the car. Their general rule is that if you can hear it in the "det cans" you need to retard the timing by 1 degree, and if you can hear it in the car, 3 degrees. They have a write up on how to do it here: http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?t=295450
Brian
Red 97 Eclipse GS (420a) MTX Custom Garrett T3 Turbo system Megasquirt w/52 lb/hr injectors & a Walbro 255 Kicker/Alpine Audio (3 amps, 2 subs) 90 Cav 2.2 TBI auto (winter) <- yeah, it's fast
#101886, "RE: Knock detection" In response to Reply # 3
I'd read the link they had to alternative, using that Whisper2000, but that was the first I'd seen on the hose approach! I'll hafta try it sometime... Kinda sux though if you want the sensor there for normal driving and to compensate for outside factors (bad gas, etc), and retard it for the time being.
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'95 GS w/ t3/t4b FMIC, diy piping & RFL BOV MS2-Extra Fuel&Spark 50 lb/hr Holley injectors w/ 1:1 RRFPR JE 8.8:1 dish w/ Hastings Rings Eagle Rods w/ ARP bolts ARP Head studs Mild port/polish head 3" custom DP/cat section, 3" PIT catback dual MBC - 12 psi / 20psi
#101887, "RE: Knock detection" In response to Reply # 4
Yeah, I would imagine they're doing it just for tuning. Looks a little goofy, but guys are saying it really works. They're doing it on the Honda boards as well. I suppose the thought is that even though you're listening to a lot of sound, the human ear can pick out detonation much easier that just a sensor that's listening for a specific frequency range. I'm going to try that approach even though I'll look like an idiot driving down the street.
Brian
Red 97 Eclipse GS (420a) MTX Custom Garrett T3 Turbo system Megasquirt w/52 lb/hr injectors & a Walbro 255 Kicker/Alpine Audio (3 amps, 2 subs) 90 Cav 2.2 TBI auto (winter) <- yeah, it's fast
#101889, "RE: Knock detection" In response to Reply # 6
a friend of mine had the msd unit and his motor failed due to detonation (poor gas we assumed) at 19 psi on a honda B18A2. He was in the middle of a pull on the dyno and we started to adibly hear it but before he had a chance to lift the throttle the car back-fired and now the ringlands are missing on two of his $900 coated JE pistons... I run the knocksense unit on my MS with a stock sensor for now and it's so sensitive that it was picking up the vibrations from my heat sheild back by the gas tank that came loose during a pull. Maybe he got a unit with some sort of deffect, we don't know, but it was enough to make him get rid of it. Mine seems to work better than it should. I'm not saying that either is better, just telling my experience with the two. I think in the end it all comes down to how you have yours set up.
Creative thinking? Ingenuity? Hell, It's just an obsession!
99 Eclipse GS turbo: MSpowered, everything custom built, 223.8 HP-199.8 TQ @8psi through auto-tranny. The first time around...
#101965, "RE: Knock detection" In response to Reply # 7 Nov-09-07 03:14 AM by justins71
Got my "det-cans" made up yesterday, and managed to run the hose through the hole in my firewall with the rest of my wiring harness's. Man that this is awesome!! I drove around for like an hour (at night.. ) retuning my whole damn spark map. There was areas I thought it was smooth and turns out I could go around +/- 5 or so (especially around 100 kPa), where I had it goin from like 15 @ 1k to 26 around 3k, leveing off till redline. Yeah, it was more like 14@ 1k, 22@ 3k, and goin to 24 by redline (BIG torque difference, contrary to my thoughts). Under boost I was hearing knocks that surprised the heck outta me, but couldn't hear them inside the car even with windows up and no radio. All-in-all I give it 2 thumbs up!
BTW, cost me all of $11 - used old 3/8" air hose, and a crimp-style battery terminal for the block-end. Had a 3/8" plastic 3-way, and a few brass fittings to thread into the ear guards. I may get some pics if I got time
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'95 GS w/ t3/t4b FMIC, diy piping & RFL BOV MS2-Extra Fuel&Spark 50 lb/hr Holley injectors w/ 1:1 RRFPR JE 8.8:1 dish w/ Hastings Rings Eagle Rods w/ ARP bolts ARP Head studs Mild port/polish head 3" custom DP/cat section, 3" PIT catback dual MBC - 12 psi / 20psi
#101973, "RE: Knock detection" In response to Reply # 8
Hell yeah man. I'm definitely gonna have to do this, I got so many rattles/noises/loudness from solid mounts, and a very short straight through 3" exhaust, I can't pick out detonation for the life of me.
Joel Baldridge, ASE Certified Master Technician, Audi Certified Expert Technician
#101974, "RE: Knock detection" In response to Reply # 9
Alright, here we go...
The other end is just like an 8 gauge, 3/8" hole terminal with the 3/8 hose clamped over it, got it attached to the trans-side lower intake man. bracket.
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'95 GS w/ t3/t4b FMIC, diy piping & RFL BOV MS2-Extra Fuel&Spark 50 lb/hr Holley injectors w/ 1:1 RRFPR JE 8.8:1 dish w/ Hastings Rings Eagle Rods w/ ARP bolts ARP Head studs Mild port/polish head 3" custom DP/cat section, 3" PIT catback dual MBC - 12 psi / 20psi
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) retuning my whole damn spark map. There was areas I thought it was smooth and turns out I could go around +/- 5 or so (especially around 100 kPa), where I had it goin from like 15 @ 1k to 26 around 3k, leveing off till redline. Yeah, it was more like 14@ 1k, 22@ 3k, and goin to 24 by redline (BIG torque difference, contrary to my thoughts). Under boost I was hearing knocks that surprised the heck outta me, but couldn't hear them inside the car even with windows up and no radio. All-in-all I give it 2 thumbs up!
