Ok I know this comes up time and again.

But lets think about this in a mature manner.

No shop around me will do it, not even for a price.

Lets take it step by step, how to do it on your own.

1. Getting the roof off. What saw would you use to actually cleanly and safely cut two straight lines down your top? Thats the first part.

2. How do you plan to make it re-attachable for rainy days? You would need to make it so the cut out roof part could not just go right back in place, but it needs to clamp down in some sort of way. Some sort of rubber creasing to make it water proof etc. Maybe you could use those rails under the top, like going across on both sides of the cut, and the cut out roof part could sit back down on that. Somehow it'd have to clamp down.

And thats it, you have your removeable targa top.

But as for structeral integrity, we move to #3

3. The body will creak etc because the top is a very important part of the body's integrity. Somewhere, whether in the back seat or something, you need to put a few straight bars to hold the car together good. Where would you put them, and how would you do it?

Interested in hearing replies, its not a far fetched thing to do, and not that expensive. Just matters who can watch their car being cut. After you cut the roof off, its really clear sailing from there, except the support bars and where they go.

What do you all think?

I have found out that for #1, its possible to cut a straight line, or 2, with a dremel saw. But where would you guys cut it exactly? How many inches from the windsheild?

ALso, for support braces, what other places would you think needs one?

Thanks

i was thinking the same thing, maybe someday i'll do it, are not. it would b sweet
we talked a little about it here
http://www.2gnt.com/dcforum/DCForumID15/1052.html#



we're not good.. we're not evil.. we're somewhere in between..
we live with in the friction of life!

most people look at art...we drive it!!!
97 Talon ESI N/T

I would cut like about far back as a spyder stops. Then for the back, at the middle of the front and rear side windows. Good luck doing this, you would need structural supports in the top as well.

may be cut the front part of the roof exactly as the spyder, and copy everything that spyder has on that part. from hooks/clamps to weather proofing stuff. and I bet same for the back side.
you could add rear strut bar, front strut bar. and some kind of a mini rollcage. there are couple of peopl who've done it.. but unfortunatly I've never seen anyone of them on any message boards.


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Junoon
97-RS
automotive/industrial design student
Michigan

Thanks for the help you guys, its alot easier when you look at it step by step.

I saw the red eclipse, here it is courtesy klipz,



I found out it was done by a company called DC Conversions. I emailed them and I will call them MOnday, hopefully they can give me some info whether I have to pay them or not.

Keep giving me ideas because believe me- I want to do this and do it right.

For cutting I was thinking 3 inches back from the windshield and the back cut will be exactly aligned with the front of the back window, exactly like in the red eclipse above.

I was thinking about supports and it seems one on the roof behind the cut, but most importantly some under the car it seems, or around there, because that will be the only real support for the car.

The hardest part will be making the roof be able to come back for a rainy day. How do you guys propose doing this? THis part has just escaped me. Yes, I can put racks on the front of the cut, and the the back, and lay the roof back down. But It won't stay. This part has escaped me. I was thinking, what if it was not a full targa, but left an inch on each side, like a giant removable sunroof. This would be easier to work with, harder to cut.

Lemme know what what input youre thinking on these subjects. If I do this right itll be a method we can all use.

LAST EDITED ON 14-Jul-01 AT 00:57 AM (PST)

Ok I have been pondering this.......

A giant sunroof, as i called above, would work better. In other words cutting a targa but leaving an inch on each side.

By doing this it may be possible to put some support bars under the small parts left on each side, correct? Just like you would in a TTop in the middle, but Im not doing that because I do not want 2 put-back roofs to deal with....

So, although other ideas may arise, I think a targa with 1 inch sides left is the way to go, leaving supports under those sides.

The question still looms how to make the roof stay when you put it back. I cant figure this out.

Also, whats under that fiberglass? Are there wires? Bars? Anything I should know about? Thanks

let's not forget the structure for the windshield is different! when i got my front windsheild replade they asked if it was a spyder or not. hmmm.... just something else to ponder about

Chris Dishmon

"Fillet Mignon?!?!?! How about a big slab of tube steak for the pretty lady."

chrisdishmon@hotmail.com
http://klipzracer.homestead.com/index.html

Yes, thats why I figured maybe a little should be left on each side with suppurts underneath, so the windsheild has something to lean on.

Also someone said a 4 pt. roll bar. What is this?

Ok, so lets put this into perspective, once again, step by step.

1. You could use a dremel saw to cut across the top. You would probably go 3 inches back from the windsheild, and for the other cut you would cut it exactly aligned with the back windows. You should probably leave 1 inch on each side, so its not a full targa.

2. Putting it back for a rainy day. This is a hard part. You could take away from the look of it all a little and put small rails onder the cuts that connect to the actual roof and overlap a little, which is where the cutout roof would go sit on when you put it back. Hard to say how to keep it down.

3. Supports. Because its not a full targa, for safety we left an inch on each side. Under each of these sides we can put support bars to give the windsheild more to lean on. Support bars under the car since thats the only true part of the car now that connects front and back, and someone said something about a 4pt roll bar which I am still wondering what it is.....

So as you can see we're getting somewhere.

QUestions -2- answer

1. Whats under the fiberglass on the roof? Will I hit anything when Im cutting?

2. Whats a 4pt roll bar and where would it go?

3. How would you secure the top back for a rainy day?

Thanks for your help!

that red car is f*cking asmazing... i am completely floored... i soooo wanna do that, who's car is that, who did it for em and (most importantly)how much did it cost?

that is baddass, good luck with doing it your self.. i would never even try to do that,(course i'm just a kid and have no resorces except a steady cash flow from working my ass off)

thanks
id

Yes that red car is awesome, and it doesnt look like a show car because Ive seen it before it was Targa and it was a daily driver.

A company called DC Conversions did it for him and I am calling them MOnday because their email is getting error returned.

I would love to pay someone to do it but no where in town will, so I am doing it myself, I'll tell everyone hoe it goes exactly and what to do.

So can anyone answer the questions above? More input?

Thanks

this is how I think Its done.

this way. It supports the roof when you put it back on and rubberized weather seals will make a tight close fit. and 2 locks on front, 2 on back should do. Locks = Just like the ones they have in convertables.



I Like the Idea of leaving 1 inch on the sides, but it wouldn't be same as targa top. It would still feel like a hard-top witha huge sun-roof. There has got to be a way to make the our car's structure stiff enough, with targa top conversion.

any info on what type of chassis does our car have????

T-top camaro's and firebirds have Backbone type frame, which is suppose to be really stiff.

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Junoon
97-RS
automotive/industrial design student
Michigan

We dont have any type of chassis like a camaro or firebird. We have one unibody and the top and bottom play an equal role in keeping the car in one piece. Take away the top and the bottom is put under alot of stress. Great drawing by the way. \

I think when you take away the top, then place support bars on the underside that goes the lentgh of the car and welding them in place will help alot. Or maybe like a diamond shaped support bar that reaches each side and each end, and weld it in place.

Anyways, I dont like the 1 inch on each side. Its a great safety idea etc but youre right its not a true targa. Can you explain the locking things you talked about? I have only been in a conv. once, a stupid miata, I dont remember how the clips work.

In the end this wont be that expensive, not at all, the problem is getting it right.

Please give more input.

LAST EDITED ON 14-Jul-01 AT 07:29 PM (PST)

well, the locking mechanism. is simple. its a latch that hooks on to the roof and when you press it down the locks it self, You might wanna take a tour to mitsu dealer and check the convertible out. You'll get the Idea.

I think, beefing up the floor/bottom of the car may help. I'm not sure if that's what you meant. but If we add an X-brace Setup. It will affect dramaticly but I'm not sure How stiff our floor/bottoms are.

I also think that, by making a custome middle bar, which you could put on after removing the top is a good Idea. You could make it look really good and all that and you'd not have to deal with 2 pieces of roof and all that weather seals.



ENKEI RP02 17" x 7"
AF/X UDP (still have to install:))
K&N Filter
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Junoon
97-RS
automotive/industrial design student
Michigan

What do you mean a middle bar? Thats actually a good idea if its what Im thinking. Do you mean like cut the whole thing off, like targa, then put a bar across the roof? Thats a great idea, and put some rubber around it to make it look profesional. THe prob is the most used part of the roof for integrity is the sides, and one bar in the middle probably wouldnt do much holding.....

What d'ya think

Yup that's what I meant. What did Mitsu add in the Spyder models??? what makes it structurally rigid??? I bet there's not ALOT to it. I tried to find some sectional views of Spyder but couldn't find any.

oh oh... just found some vital info.

Corvette convertibles uses X-brace.

X-Brace:
From a Bird's eye view, you'd see an X shaped structure in the middle part of the chassis. I bet this could be the answer to the problem, if not, Atleast Half the answer.

ENKEI RP02 17" x 7"
AF/X UDP (still have to install:))
K&N Filter
springs/coilovers (still searchin' )





Junoon
97-RS
automotive/industrial design student
Michigan

a four point cage would put two frame welds in the hatch, and two along the b pilliar (front of the rear window/rear of the door. i would suggest a six point, addint two frame welds forward of the door. this would lessen the stress placed on the lower frame. if you remove part of the roof, it will make the frame sag in the middle.
dsm-performance carries a 6 point cage for our cars, only $300
here's the link:
http://www.dsm-performance.com/telcatalog.html

rick

aem c.a.i, f&r upper strut bars, 3" drop, 17" wishbones, aero duo type v front, erebuni shaved sides, combat rear, cf hood, cf gauges, cf dash, projector headlights, af/x solid f mm, obx cat-back, etc..

How much do you think it would cost to get a 6pt installed?

intallation varies on the shop of course, but i don't know how many pieces that it comes in. welding is required for installation. not only to the frame, but also to put the cage together. how else would you get it in? if you've got a friend who welds, then you're hooked up. if not, run by your local muffler shop/machine shop, and ask.

rick

aem c.a.i, f&r upper strut bars, 3" drop, 17" wishbones, aero duo type v front, erebuni shaved sides, combat rear, cf hood, cf gauges, cf dash, projector headlights, af/x solid f mm, obx cat-back, etc..

does dc conversions have a website? i'd like to investigate for a futrure upgrade

id

I just think that for a driven car it is too big of a task where the side effects outway the benefits. For the structure parts you would have to weld in a roll cage, and you would probably need a six point. You can add all the supports you want to the bottom and it wont make up for the loss of the roof structure. Then you have the problem of leaking. If your unibody was to twist at all then the top would leak. then you have to worry about your doors sealing, because remember your taking a chunk of the molding out to. As far as the roof goes you wouldn't use the piece that was cut out, you would either have one made of fiberglass or plexiglass. I don't think that red car is daily driven. All the money he has in it, The white seats, and the paint is immaculate. I think the spyders have a full frame that's why they have the bigger engine to make up for the added weight. I posted to a targa top post a while ago and said that the most logical way to me would be to have the roof from a coupe with the targa cut in then mold that to a spyder, which would be really expensive and it's probably not even possible. I don't know anything about the company that your talking about but even if they did find a way around all the problems, and are able to support the unibody without a roll cage, the kit will be really expensive, the istallation would be really expensive, and if you were ever to roll they would have to do a DNA test to identify you. I say save the 5-10 grand and spend it on something else.

I would love to do this... but the amount of money ot would take I don't have now.

For re-attaching the roof panels I think I would copy the design of my friend's Trans Am, maybe even canabalize the locking mechanism from a junkyard bird and trim to fit. It hase a nice locking mechanism that attaches to the end of the A-Pillar with a handle on the T-Top with a lock. There would be a lot of fiberglass or sheet metal work needed to create the perch needed to rest the top on. in the middle you use a notch that the top slides in and then swings down and is locked atthe A-Pillar. If I have some free time I'll draw a picture of what I mean, I can see it in my head, but not explain it well.

For bracing and structural regidity. Well first step in al of this is removign the fabric roof. Pull that down and find out what kind of room you are workign with. Put in a small cylindrical roll bar like piece of metal connected to the front of the windshield support and run i back to the rear. An then brace it out and down to the sides... maybe run a miniroll cage under the plastic panels, welded at several spots along the way. I would go and have an X brace welded into the frame railes from the front crossing and welded together in the middle.

Okay I actualy just drew a few things while at work, so as soon as I finish them up and scan them in I'll post it.

"Claim Victory in your heart, and the universe will follow."
Michael J. Kulaga e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com
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