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Subject: "Too Much Boost?"

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BigBald	Sep-12-04 07:08 PM
Member since Oct 22nd 2002 2715 posts,

#9911, "Too Much Boost?"
Sep-12-04 07:13 PM by BigBald

How exactly does timing work? I am getting low timing on my top end right now. I tried advance timing and ended up getting crazy knock. I added fuel to eliminate knock and that is not working. I am running 9.9:1 - 10.5:1 a/f ratio according to DSMLink. This means i am already running rich so adding fuel will cause me to lose more power. All this leads me to believe that 18psi is too much for the stock SMIC. If i turn the boost down to say 15psi will this help with my timing and fuel at all? Please point me in the right direction. I am a tuning noob. My understanding is i want to get timing in the late teens - early 20s w/ no knock.

My best time so far is 14.3 @ 94mph w/ 1.9 60'

www.illeagle-tsi.net/specs/

Obviviously something is going on here...please help.

_____________________________________________
Jerrome B.
1995 GSX - Race
1997 GST - Drive
1995 GST - Who the hell knows

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Replies to this topic

RE: Too Much Boost?, Vandy420a, Sep-12-04 07:14 PM, #1

RE: Too Much Boost?, BigBald, Sep-12-04 07:22 PM, #2

RE: Too Much Boost?, chrysler kid, Sep-12-04 08:13 PM, #3

RE: Too Much Boost?, BigBald, Sep-12-04 08:32 PM, #4

RE: Too Much Boost?, DSMTunerS95, Sep-13-04 04:58 AM, #5

RE: Too Much Boost?, BigBald, Sep-13-04 06:00 AM, #6

RE: Too Much Boost?, FlyinEsi, Sep-13-04 06:02 AM, #7

RE: Too Much Boost?, BigBald, Sep-13-04 06:18 AM, #8

RE: Too Much Boost?, FlyinEsi, Sep-13-04 06:45 AM, #9

RE: Too Much Boost?, BigBald, Sep-13-04 06:49 AM, #10

RE: Too Much Boost?, FlyinEsi, Sep-13-04 06:56 AM, #11

RE: Too Much Boost?, BigBald, Sep-13-04 07:27 AM, #12

RE: Too Much Boost?, Vandy420a, Sep-13-04 07:54 AM, #13

RE: Too Much Boost?, Vandy420a, Sep-13-04 07:54 AM, #14

RE: Too Much Boost?, FlyinEsi, Sep-13-04 09:13 AM, #15

RE: Too Much Boost?, BigBald, Sep-13-04 09:29 AM, #16

RE: Too Much Boost?, BigBald, Sep-13-04 09:26 AM, #17

RE: Too Much Boost?, PowerEclipses, Sep-13-04 09:32 AM, #18

RE: Too Much Boost?, FlyinEsi, Sep-13-04 09:39 AM, #19

RE: Too Much Boost?, BigBald, Sep-13-04 09:51 AM, #20

RE: Too Much Boost?, DSMTunerS95, Sep-13-04 10:49 AM, #21

RE: Too Much Boost?, BigBald, Sep-13-04 10:54 AM, #22

RE: Too Much Boost?, FlyinEsi, Sep-13-04 11:29 AM, #23

RE: Too Much Boost?, BigBald, Sep-13-04 11:46 AM, #24

RE: Too Much Boost?, FlyinEsi, Sep-13-04 12:34 PM, #25

Vandy420a	Sep-12-04 07:14 PM
Member since Jun 04th 2003 2037 posts,

#9912, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 0
Sep-12-04 07:15 PM by Vandy420a

yes, 18psi is at the limits of the SMIC--you're really not supposed to run any more than 15-16psi on a big 16g with a side mount...

---------------------------------------

Black 98 GST missing her owner and looking for a new one...Inquiries welcome

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BigBald	Sep-12-04 07:22 PM
Member since Oct 22nd 2002 2715 posts,

#9913, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 1

Not the answer i wanted but figured that was the case. Will i see better timing and a/f with less boost? I am pretty sure it will get rid of the knock.

Is 16psi ok or should i not chance it and stick with 15psi till i get a FMIC?

_____________________________________________
Jerrome B.
1995 GSX - Race
1997 GST - Drive
1995 GST - Who the hell knows

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chrysler kid	Sep-12-04 08:13 PM
Member since Sep 25th 2002 7411 posts,

#9914, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 2

15psi is still heat soaking the sidemount after about 5 minutes of hard driving

______________________________________

11.65 @ 115

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BigBald	Sep-12-04 08:32 PM
Member since Oct 22nd 2002 2715 posts,

#9915, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 3

Originally posted by chrysler kid
15psi is still heat soaking the sidemount after about 5 minutes of hard driving

I don't think it will take me that long to get down the track. I will let you know after Saturday. I am going to a test and tune at the local trackt o see whats up @ 15psi.

_____________________________________________
Jerrome B.
1995 GSX - Race
1997 GST - Drive
1995 GST - Who the hell knows

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DSMTunerS95	Sep-13-04 04:58 AM
Member since Jul 30th 2003 185 posts,

#9916, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 4
Sep-13-04 04:59 AM by DSMTunerS95

i was able to run 18psi with a big 16g and a stock smic and 510's on pump and only getting a few counts of knock i went 13.1 @ 102 with a 1.76 60''. what is " low " timing to you. my timing normally starteda bout 17 and crept to 20, on race gas i ran 22psi on the sidemount, started getting headsoaked half way down the track ( 3rd gear haha ) but as long as you are on 93 im sure u could squeeze 18 out of a sidemount with <8-10 counts of knock

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BigBald	Sep-13-04 06:00 AM
Member since Oct 22nd 2002 2715 posts,

#9917, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 5

Originally posted by DSMTunerS95
i was able to run 18psi with a big 16g and a stock smic and 510's on pump and only getting a few counts of knock i went 13.1 @ 102 with a 1.76 60''. what is " low " timing to you. my timing normally starteda bout 17 and crept to 20, on race gas i ran 22psi on the sidemount, started getting headsoaked half way down the track ( 3rd gear haha ) but as long as you are on 93 im sure u could squeeze 18 out of a sidemount with <8-10 counts of knock

I am getting less than that but my intake temps are insane. I hade a 117 F intake temp by the start of third gear(5100 rpm) and ended with 98 but 7200rpm. At what knock count does timing get pulled? How many counts of knock are considered to be safe?

_____________________________________________
Jerrome B.
1995 GSX - Race
1997 GST - Drive
1995 GST - Who the hell knows

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FlyinEsi	Sep-13-04 06:02 AM
Donating 2GNT member 5187 posts,

#9918, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 5

The DSMlink guys say that timing is not as important as knock. My timing gets clear down to 4-5 degrees, but they all said that is normal and it will vary with different atmospheric conditions. Post on DSMlink Jerrome and attach one of your logs and have the experts look at it.

___________________________________

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BigBald	Sep-13-04 06:18 AM
Member since Oct 22nd 2002 2715 posts,

#9919, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 7

Originally posted by FlyinEsi
The DSMlink guys say that timing is not as important as knock. My timing gets clear down to 4-5 degrees, but they all said that is normal and it will vary with different atmospheric conditions. Post on DSMlink Jerrome and attach one of your logs and have the experts look at it.

I did and that is WWWWAAAAYYYYY to low. I want timing to be at about 18-21 degrees...that is where the power lies. You must have no top end at all. I was getting 6 degrees of timing on the track and it felt like i was moving in slow motion.

I am just trying to figure out how knock counts are safe before i turn boost down. I know it is pulling 1 degree of timing because of my intake temps, but if the knock count is ok then i will let it go.

_____________________________________________
Jerrome B.
1995 GSX - Race
1997 GST - Drive
1995 GST - Who the hell knows

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FlyinEsi	Sep-13-04 06:45 AM
Donating 2GNT member 5187 posts,

#9920, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 8
Sep-13-04 06:45 AM by FlyinEsi

Knock counts of 2-3 is "safe" but you still want to get rid of it all together if at all possible. Right now, I have <1 deg of knock in only a few spots.

My timing might also be getting pulled because of high intake temps and high coolant temps, I think between the two it pulls about 3 degrees of timing, but I don't want to force extra timing on the car because the last time I tried that I got hella knock.

When I get home, I'll send you one of my logs.

___________________________________

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BigBald	Sep-13-04 06:49 AM
Member since Oct 22nd 2002 2715 posts,

#9921, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 9
Sep-13-04 06:50 AM by BigBald

Originally posted by FlyinEsi
Knock counts of 2-3 is "safe" but you still want to get rid of it all together if at all possible. Right now, I have <1 deg of knock in only a few spots. My timing might also be getting pulled because of high intake temps and high coolant temps, I think between the two it pulls about 3 degrees of timing, but I don't want to force extra timing on the car because the last time I tried that I got hella knock. When I get home, I'll send you one of my logs.

you have a FMIC...how are you getting high intake temps? ANd i was told that at first also.....but there are those who tune to 7 counts of knock. I would liek to know how safe that is before i remotely consider that. Cause if that is the case i have timing advanced by 5 from the 3k - 7k range and i am only getting around 4 counts of knock.

_____________________________________________
Jerrome B.
1995 GSX - Race
1997 GST - Drive
1995 GST - Who the hell knows

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FlyinEsi	Sep-13-04 06:56 AM
Donating 2GNT member 5187 posts,

#9922, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 10

I don't know why they would be doing that...DSMlink is programmed from the makers to throw on your CEL light if you are running over 5 degrees of knock...why would 7 be safe?? I was told no more than 5.

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BigBald	Sep-13-04 07:27 AM
Member since Oct 22nd 2002 2715 posts,

#9923, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 11

Originally posted by FlyinEsi
I don't know why they would be doing that...DSMlink is programmed from the makers to throw on your CEL light if you are running over 5 degrees of knock...why would 7 be safe?? I was told no more than 5.

I know about link....but it depends on who you talk to about tuning. You see the guy above says less then 8 - 10 counts of knock like it is ok. So if this is the case then i want to know.

_____________________________________________
Jerrome B.
1995 GSX - Race
1997 GST - Drive
1995 GST - Who the hell knows

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Vandy420a	Sep-13-04 07:54 AM
Member since Jun 04th 2003 2037 posts,

#9924, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 5
Sep-13-04 07:55 AM by Vandy420a

Originally posted by DSMTunerS95
i was able to run 18psi with a big 16g and a stock smic and 510's on pump and only getting a few counts of knock i went 13.1 @ 102 with a 1.76 60''.

that's awesome!!! emoji

---------------------------------------

Black 98 GST missing her owner and looking for a new one...Inquiries welcome

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Vandy420a	Sep-13-04 07:54 AM
Member since Jun 04th 2003 2037 posts,

#9925, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 2

Originally posted by BigBald
Not the answer i wanted but figured that was the case. Will i see better timing and a/f with less boost? I am pretty sure it will get rid of the knock. Is 16psi ok or should i not chance it and stick with 15psi till i get a FMIC?

you're going to have one helluva time running 15-16 psi without it creeping up to 20...are you externally gated?

---------------------------------------

Black 98 GST missing her owner and looking for a new one...Inquiries welcome

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FlyinEsi	Sep-13-04 09:13 AM
Donating 2GNT member 5187 posts,

#9926, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 14

http://www.dsmlink.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2530

Check this out Jerrome. Maybe it will help, maybe not.

___________________________________

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BigBald	Sep-13-04 09:29 AM
Member since Oct 22nd 2002 2715 posts,

#9927, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 15

Originally posted by FlyinEsi
http://www.dsmlink.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2530 Check this out Jerrome. Maybe it will help, maybe not.

I just was told i am reading knock wrong. When talking to others, they ask for a knock count. In order to give them that you need to look at the knock retard value not the knock value itself. When looking at this i am getting a hell of alot more then 4 counts of knock. SO yes i am running way to much boost it seems. I will turn it down to 15psi and do some more logs and see what happens.

_____________________________________________
Jerrome B.
1995 GSX - Race
1997 GST - Drive
1995 GST - Who the hell knows

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BigBald	Sep-13-04 09:26 AM
Member since Oct 22nd 2002 2715 posts,

#9928, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 14

Originally posted by Vandy420a

Originally posted by BigBald Not the answer i wanted but figured that was the case. Will i see better timing and a/f with less boost? I am pretty sure it will get rid of the knock. Is 16psi ok or should i not chance it and stick with 15psi till i get a FMIC?

you're going to have one helluva time running 15-16 psi without it creeping up to 20...are you externally gated?

Is there any other way......lol. Yes i have a 40mm Tial Wastegate. I DO NOT creep at all. A list of my mods is in the first post.

_____________________________________________
Jerrome B.
1995 GSX - Race
1997 GST - Drive
1995 GST - Who the hell knows

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PowerEclipses	Sep-13-04 09:32 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3215 posts,

#9929, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 17

uhh yeah, im running 20 psi with the SAFC2 and beat an evo that ran a 12.8. I really need to get DSM link, is there a forum just for this anywhere. I want to buy the whole unit itself.

Boca Raton, Florida
95 Eclipse GS- sold
99 Eclipse GSX- 386awhp
98 Eclipse GS- sold
92 Prelude

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FlyinEsi	Sep-13-04 09:39 AM
Donating 2GNT member 5187 posts,

#9930, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 18

To get DSMlink you need to find a 95 EPROM ECU. You can get them on tuners once in a while, usually around $200-$250. Then the dsmlink is another $650 on top of that. DSMlink has a forum, but you have to be a customer to be a member there. You can check out the product at www.dmslink.com but you cannot get into the forum itself.

___________________________________

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BigBald	Sep-13-04 09:51 AM
Member since Oct 22nd 2002 2715 posts,

#9931, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 19

Originally posted by FlyinEsi
To get DSMlink you need to find a 95 EPROM ECU. You can get them on tuners once in a while, usually around $200-$250. Then the dsmlink is another $650 on top of that. DSMlink has a forum, but you have to be a customer to be a member there. You can check out the product at www.dmslink.com but you cannot get into the forum itself.

what he said.....light years better then a AFC.......

_____________________________________________
Jerrome B.
1995 GSX - Race
1997 GST - Drive
1995 GST - Who the hell knows

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DSMTunerS95	Sep-13-04 10:49 AM
Member since Jul 30th 2003 185 posts,

#9932, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 20

Well this is how i look at it , and lots of other people do as well, yes detonation is always bad, but when you are forced to run 91-93 ( pump gas ) there will always be knock if your running any kind of high boost levels, and i also look at it this way, when you detonate, it retards timing to prevent it, thats why if u get a big count of knock it will slowly taper off, i tune to keep what timing i have ( i have no control of it due to hte fact i dont have dsmlink and im a 1g ) i try to stay under 10 and im fine with it even with 9-10 counts i can still keep my timing about 18degree's.

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BigBald	Sep-13-04 10:54 AM
Member since Oct 22nd 2002 2715 posts,

#9933, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 21

Originally posted by DSMTunerS95
Well this is how i look at it , and lots of other people do as well, yes detonation is always bad, but when you are forced to run 91-93 ( pump gas ) there will always be knock if your running any kind of high boost levels, and i also look at it this way, when you detonate, it retards timing to prevent it, thats why if u get a big count of knock it will slowly taper off, i tune to keep what timing i have ( i have no control of it due to hte fact i dont have dsmlink and im a 1g ) i try to stay under 10 and im fine with it even with 9-10 counts i can still keep my timing about 18degree's.

This is my line of thinking, but i am not sure i want to take that chance. I am going to try @ 15 then 16psi and see what happens.

_____________________________________________
Jerrome B.
1995 GSX - Race
1997 GST - Drive
1995 GST - Who the hell knows

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FlyinEsi	Sep-13-04 11:29 AM
Donating 2GNT member 5187 posts,

#9934, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 22

have you tried putting a log onto dsmlink.com yet? Let the administrators look at your log, your setup, and they will give you a good idea if you can turn up the boost.

FYI: I definitely have top end, pulls like a raped ape. But since I'm at 5,000 ft my timing might be different. Also, because of the height, my atmospheric pressure is different and lower, my 21psi is like sea level 16 or 17.

___________________________________

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BigBald	Sep-13-04 11:46 AM
Member since Oct 22nd 2002 2715 posts,

#9935, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 23

Originally posted by FlyinEsi
have you tried putting a log onto dsmlink.com yet? Let the administrators look at your log, your setup, and they will give you a good idea if you can turn up the boost. FYI: I definitely have top end, pulls like a raped ape. But since I'm at 5,000 ft my timing might be different. Also, because of the height, my atmospheric pressure is different and lower, my 21psi is like sea level 16 or 17.

you are at a higher altitude and i am already running to much boost....lol. To you it pulls but your e/t will tell you the truth. I want to keep timing around 18 degrees across the board as much as possible.

_____________________________________________
Jerrome B.
1995 GSX - Race
1997 GST - Drive
1995 GST - Who the hell knows

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FlyinEsi	Sep-13-04 12:34 PM
Donating 2GNT member 5187 posts,

#9936, "RE: Too Much Boost?"
In response to Reply # 24

I think I'm going to go run at the track in 2 weeks.

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