I will not mention any names, I want you to be aware so if somebody tries to sell you one cheap.

The person ordered the computer, and told us they did not want it delivered until after the first of they year because they would be out of town. This is not out of the ordinary.

Then they called the Better Business Buearu and the Credit Card company and filled a false claim saying they never recieved the product, and wanted their money back. This was in full knowledge of the estimated delivery date. This is call cybershoplifting and is a crime, and is one of the few crimes committed by the actual card holder. They complain to everybody when they get caught because they are the card holder, but this is where a criminal uses the systems to protect consumers to steal product. That hurts us all.

Criminals have been doing this for sometime, and this guy followed the formula to a "T". We are currently trying to stop FedEx from completing delivery now, but even if delivered we have some protections in place.

This is one of the reason we all pay high credit card interest rates, these people even when no successful generate high amounts of paper work. And somebody has get paid to do that work.

This guy picked the wrong company to try this with, as many of you know we fight credit card criminals and the credit card industy to fix the monster they have created.

Here is some of the stuff we have done to stop the theives.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/20/eveningnews/main703110.shtml
http://www.internetretailer.com/dailyNews.asp?id=11201
http://www.moralgroup.com/NewsItems/Economy/p10.htm

I wanted you to be aware if we can't get delivery stopped, and they sell it when the law comes looking for them they may try to get it back.

Thanks for being understanding.
gary

Visit the Howell Automotive Open House August 20th, 2005. The largest gathering of Chrysler 2.0 engines on the planet.

US Small Business Administration Export Business of the Year for 2003

Visit Howell Automotive at www.howellautomotive.com

Fucking thieves...

So what is it you're not doing that the credit card companies want you to do? Millions of businesses worldwide seem to have no problem making money, keeping prices low, and shipping quickly using the same credit companies you're having problems with. It sounds like they're saying you're responsible for validating the payment before shipping, and didn't do it appropriately.

Some of us use escrow for large purchases, which includes a payment verification service before goods are even shipped. Sure, this introduces a shipping delay and small cost for large purchases, but if you're having such a huge problem with fraud then maybe you should do what us tiny businesses do.

If you're simply trying to accept as many credit card orders as possible, and ship things out before verifying the payment is good, then you should probably accept the risks inherent in that method of doing business. Asking the internet and the media to stop theft for you isn't going to happen, but best of luck.

What your saying is not true an any means. Millions of companies are the victims of these crimes all the time.

We use all the tools at our disposal to prevent the fraud from occuring.

Several Examples: Remember back last summer when the credit card industry had 40,000 + credit card numbers and their associated data stolen? The proper response for the industry would have been to deactivate the cards. They did not. They told people to watch their bills. Many people will miss the charges, and pay the bill this just made the card holder a victim without knowing it.

Also in that same instance, we ship only to verified address, and use the other security measures provide. We can do everything right, get approval on all the information from the bank and be held financially responsible for their mistakes. Consumers and Merchants pay for the credit card companies mistakes.

Last year a jewler in NY sold $10,000 worth material. He verified all the info through normal channels, then went above and beyond and called J>P> Morgon and verfied it again on the phone. They said everything was ok. He sent the product, then it came back credit card company said it was identity theft took the $10,000 back. J.P> Morgan screwed up consumer has to fight identity theft, the merchant was held responsible for the money, and J.P. Morgan that caused everything. But J.P. Morgan took no loss, passed it all on.

The WSJ in 2003 estimated the credit card industry profits $500,000 from the crime. Consumers and Merchants are getting hit because the industry makes money off it.

And get this Visa and MasterCard have non-profit status, so they don't pay taxes.

Visit the Howell Automotive Open House August 20th, 2005. The largest gathering of Chrysler 2.0 engines on the planet.

US Small Business Administration Export Business of the Year for 2003

Visit Howell Automotive at www.howellautomotive.com

It is true though, that millions of companies still manage to make money, keep prices low, and ship quickly. I never said the credit card companies weren't defrauding you, and that theft never occours. All I'm saying is other businesses small and large have found ways to protect themselves in an economy where theft and industry-wide fraud is known to occour.

For instance, Hahn Racecraft does not accept credit cards from consumers, they use a vendor network. Paypal offers transaction insurance for an additional fee. Some of us use an escrow service. You're simply not using "All" the tools available to you. You're only using the ones that are most convenient.

I'm sure a $500,000/year "profit" from fraud by the credit card companies is annoying to small businesses. In the overall scheme of things though, thats miniscule compared to the multi-billions of commerce they do each year. Even if you're losing .05% of all sales, it's nothing compared to the 3.1% we Paypal customers get charged to accept credit cards... and we get defrauded quite often too. For this reason, some of us choose not to accept credit cards.

This may not be an option for Howell, but in the end, you are a retail business that is stuck between the consumer and the manufacturer FOR PROFIT. By taking on the risk of accepting payments, you make money.

Consumer and Merchants are both the victims. You have multi-billion dollar companies passing losses on to consumers and merchants. That is not risk, that is a difference between right and wrong.

If the credit card companies are going to verify all the information, then they need to stand behind it. DAta theft at the credit card company is their own fault, and they should be given a free pass and allow the losses to be passed to consumers and merchants.

Visit the Howell Automotive Open House August 20th, 2005. The largest gathering of Chrysler 2.0 engines on the planet.

US Small Business Administration Export Business of the Year for 2003

Visit Howell Automotive at www.howellautomotive.com

Interesting really, it appears thieves are smarter than the honest people.

How about this solution to the problem.

I call you and order the ECU but i dont want it delivered for 1 month. You validate my credit card, perhaps you call the CC company to see if the card is in good standing or you charge the CC card then refund the amount right away to make sure I am good for the money. Now when the ECU is ready to be shipped you turn around and charge the Credit card.

I thought there was a way to verify a CC through the CC machine but i cant remember.

Since you charge the Card 1 day before you ship it, the person cant claim they ordered the ECU a month ago and didnt recieve it.

Now if you run the CC and it is declined then you are stuck with the ECU, i dont see this as a problem since most people are unhappy with the time it takes to order one. Its not liek you will be stuck with it for a while and not like you cant afford for it to be on a shelf for a month.

Kinda sad people would do this but it doesnt surprise me. MAke the honest people who call thier Credit card company to file a claim look liek possible thieves.

Terry

Complete charge or hold makes no difference, the criminal cardholder can still pull this game. I lump debit cards in with credit cards, which you can't do that with at all. This is the first time someone tried this with a computer. Usually they do it as soon as they get the tracking number, knowing the part will be delivered before we get the paper work. WV has a pretty good law we got passed last year to protect consumers and merchants, and we have used it once. Guy had to pay restitution and got 30 days in jail.

Honest people don't do this stuff, nor would they have to. We had one kid called us the day we finished his engine. He wrecked his car, totally destroyed it. He knew it was custom built and the terms he agreed to, so he simply ask us to try to sell it for him. That is how honest people do things.

A friend of mine sold $2500 of parts through his business, then the guys wife claimed she never got the parts. Seems the wife got stuck with the bills after a divorce and was trying to lie her way out of paying for them. There is now a warrant for her arrest.

Visit the Howell Automotive Open House August 20th, 2005. The largest gathering of Chrysler 2.0 engines on the planet.

US Small Business Administration Export Business of the Year for 2003

Visit Howell Automotive at www.howellautomotive.com

Take that 350 bucks that you screwed me out of and call it a day.

Howell Automotive griping about getting screwed over is the mother of all ironies.

Was it meant for this person?
http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=4&topic_id=81641&mesg_id=81641&page=2

**********************************
Current Mods:
AEM V2 intake, MP 60mm TB, Accel 24lb injectors, Crane #12 cams,Ross forged 10:1 pistons, Eagle H-beam rods, ARP head and main studs,
Ported and polished head, Crane valve springs, PT rockers and lifters, MSD coil, Accel wires, AFX underdrive pulley,
DC sports ceramic coated header, Ebay testpipe, Apex-i N1 catback, 255 lph fuel pump, Apex-i SAFC, Spec Stage III clutch, Phantom Grip,
full Energy Suspension polyurethane bushing kit, Tokico springs and blue shocks, Russell steel braided clutch and brake lines,
17" Koning Imagines, NOS 100 hp direct port N20 kit

That's funny, I ordered an AF/X ecu and it only took 6 months to get to me after I was lied to several times. But, it was a great little upgrade being N/A. Comesee comesaw. Still, theives suck ass and need to be shot in the kneecaps.

Visit the Howell Automotive Open House August 20th, 2005. The largest gathering of Chrysler 2.0 engines on the planet.

US Small Business Administration Export Business of the Year for 2003

Visit Howell Automotive at www.howellautomotive.com

well how soon you forget. BTW one of those BBB claims should be from me.

I'm sure you remember me. Fidanza flywheel and centerforce clutch ring a bell?

Ordered one from you.. got them.. clutch or flywheel was the wrong unit. Clutch and flywheel were incompatable. Called and you said "Just send it back." You didn't even want to give me a RA number or take time to write down what the return was for.

So I enclosed a copy of the invoice, and a typed letter describing the problem since you didn't want to hear it on the phone. Called a week later "Sent the flywheel back to Fidanza." Called two weeks later "still at Fidanza." Month later.. same thing. Two months later..same thing.

Got busy building the engine with parts that I was smart enough to order from somone else. Called back about a month and a half later.. "who is this again? what flywheel and clutch?" I called Fidanza and they never recieved a returned flywheel from you. So I was just being told that it was sent to fidanza to get me off your back and after a while the whole thing was just forgotten. Sound familiar with the AFX computer in the post I linked??

So since you failed to give me a RA number, I had nothing for refrence. So I paid somewhere for a clutch and flywheel that is still in limbo somewhere. So I just bought a Spec stage III from HorsepowerFreaks which is a better setup than the fidanza and centerforce anyway.

But hey.. I'm just a thief that was trying to get something for nothing, right? At least that was the way I was talked to on the phone.

**********************************
Current Mods:
AEM V2 intake, MP 60mm TB, Accel 24lb injectors, Crane #12 cams,Ross forged 10:1 pistons, Eagle H-beam rods, ARP head and main studs,
Ported and polished head, Crane valve springs, PT rockers and lifters, MSD coil, Accel wires, AFX underdrive pulley,
DC sports ceramic coated header, Ebay testpipe, Apex-i N1 catback, 255 lph fuel pump, Apex-i SAFC, Spec Stage III clutch, Phantom Grip,
full Energy Suspension polyurethane bushing kit, Tokico springs and blue shocks, Russell steel braided clutch and brake lines,
17" Koning Imagines, NOS 100 hp direct port N20 kit

Yea don't even get me started on waiting 5 months for a turbo kit that was suppose to take 1. ahaha... You guys are far from perfect although I do see your losses. Don't ship to Singapore... that's got fraud written all over it!

Visit the Howell Automotive Open House August 20th, 2005. The largest gathering of Chrysler 2.0 engines on the planet.

US Small Business Administration Export Business of the Year for 2003

Visit Howell Automotive at www.howellautomotive.com

We issue RGA (Return Goods Authorization) numbers for the sole purpose of tracking returns. We refuse delivery of returns without RGA numbers, just so we don't get some return that we have no clue what to do with. If you did return something without an RGA and it got excepted by mistake, then all you would need to do is give us the tracking number where you returned it. We simply look it up to see if we excepted delivery of it. With proof the part was returned, even if we can't find it. We would just issue a credit.

We have no unresolved disputes with the Better Business Beauru, all have been returned with letters saying the after mediation the cases were closed.

Even though we have went through mediation, I'm willing to revist this. As I offered before, provide the tracking number. That will give us the weight of the package showing it was a flywheel, show proof of delivery, and show that it came from you. Once you do that we will look up the invoice (please give us the date you orded) and issue a credit, not a problem. We have always operated a respectable business and I'm not going to change now. Your resolution is on the table again, please accept it.

Visit the Howell Automotive Open House August 20th, 2005. The largest gathering of Chrysler 2.0 engines on the planet.

US Small Business Administration Export Business of the Year for 2003

Visit Howell Automotive at www.howellautomotive.com

Well your guy that handled it didn't issue me a RGA. He just said "send it back." I said "is that it?" and he said "Yea, Send it back and we'll look at it." I don't have the tracking number since it was so long ago and have no way to look it up. That is where the problem is. So I guess that I will have to do without.

The thing that really chaps my a** is that when I called to check on the parts, he told me that they were sent back to Fidanza. But in reality the part never was sent to them and he probably didn't even know what I was even talking about. So he was just jerking my chain to get me off the phone.

**********************************
Current Mods:
AEM V2 intake, MP 60mm TB, Accel 24lb injectors, Crane #12 cams,Ross forged 10:1 pistons, Eagle H-beam rods, ARP head and main studs,
Ported and polished head, Crane valve springs, PT rockers and lifters, MSD coil, Accel wires, AFX underdrive pulley,
DC sports ceramic coated header, Ebay testpipe, Apex-i N1 catback, 255 lph fuel pump, Apex-i SAFC, Spec Stage III clutch, Phantom Grip,
full Energy Suspension polyurethane bushing kit, Tokico springs and blue shocks, Russell steel braided clutch and brake lines,
17" Koning Imagines, NOS 100 hp direct port N20 kit

Stop in a UPS and see if they can look it up with your information. All pesons shipping get put into the computer, they use your phone as an ID and i know they can look up previous people you shipped to.

Terry

It was shipped from a local place that only did the old way. Sort of like a UPS kiosk inside a larger store. The paper trail is long gone. UPS has since become more computerized but the old information was not transferred into the system.

**********************************
Current Mods:
AEM V2 intake, MP 60mm TB, Accel 24lb injectors, Crane #12 cams,Ross forged 10:1 pistons, Eagle H-beam rods, ARP head and main studs,
Ported and polished head, Crane valve springs, PT rockers and lifters, MSD coil, Accel wires, AFX underdrive pulley,
DC sports ceramic coated header, Ebay testpipe, Apex-i N1 catback, 255 lph fuel pump, Apex-i SAFC, Spec Stage III clutch, Phantom Grip,
full Energy Suspension polyurethane bushing kit, Tokico springs and blue shocks, Russell steel braided clutch and brake lines,
17" Koning Imagines, NOS 100 hp direct port N20 kit

Visit the Howell Automotive Open House August 20th, 2005. The largest gathering of Chrysler 2.0 engines on the planet.

US Small Business Administration Export Business of the Year for 2003

Visit Howell Automotive at www.howellautomotive.com

Sup Gary, Remember me?? Tom from Delaware w/ the 420a motor? Still leaking oil.... anyways, I'm not going to bust your balls about that shit because it's in the past and you seemed to actually care. I;m at work right now, and by work i meen reviewing accounts for fraud. Thats right, I'm and credit card fraud analyst here at Bank of America. When I get some more time I'll run this situation by some collegues of mine here at work. Check baack in soon, maybe we can help you out or some up with something.

Banned

You better not bust my balls about it, because we were going to fix it, but you never took us up on the offer. :-D

The coruption in the credit card industry is bad. Hate to see good people in the middle of it, but a job is a job. Probably the best case of fraud was this. Drop me an e@mail on what they say.

Visit the Howell Automotive Open House August 20th, 2005. The largest gathering of Chrysler 2.0 engines on the planet.

US Small Business Administration Export Business of the Year for 2003

Visit Howell Automotive at www.howellautomotive.com

By the way, while you're looking, the 31.5" belt that comes with the AF/X UDP is too big. 31" fits much better.

1998 Eclipse GS

GS-T Axleback|CAI|OBX 4-1 Header|AF/X UDP|

Been selling them for years without any problem at that size. You changed anything on your mounting that would make yours different?

Visit the Howell Automotive Open House August 20th, 2005. The largest gathering of Chrysler 2.0 engines on the planet.

US Small Business Administration Export Business of the Year for 2003

Visit Howell Automotive at www.howellautomotive.com

1998 Eclipse GS

GS-T Axleback|CAI|OBX 4-1 Header|AF/X UDP|

I can't believe the companies (VISA, MC) don't take responsibity for the fraud even after all the information is verified by them!

also moved to pits...

__________________________________________________________
-Tony <--- NOT asian.
'06 Wicked White EVO IX