I remember when I joined this site. People had stars next to their names and the few people with turbocharged 2GNTs had either dropped three large on HRC or Star kits. Then came the 2.4L swap, Megasquirt, and the $1000 DIY turbosystem.

Today, a turbocharged, 2.4L 420A on MSnS is fairly commonplace. It's impressive. We've got Mark doing us proud in the all motor realm and dsm_zero putting over 600 to the wheels. The 2GNT has come a long way from it's humble roots of homemade intakes and mismatched exhaust components.

DSM is no longer the hot setup. It is the future classic. Think about it for a minute. The NEWEST 2G DSM you can possibly buy is on the cusp of being TEN YEARS OLD. 1Gs are pushing TWENTY! This platform is, in the eyes of the automotive industry - dead. Eagle has folded, the Eclipse lives on, but it's two generations removed from the spirit of the platform, while everyone scoops up Evos and Imprezas to satisfy their must-go-fast-right-now vices.

Some of you bought the 2GNT because you couldn't afford the turbo car and that's okay. Even today, when the turbo cars are less than what some of us OGs spent on used 2GNTs just a few years back. What matters is that you fell in love with a car styled well ahead of its time and which still fits in on the road today.

It's time to stop obsessing over turbos. WAT.
It's time to stop obsessing over turbos. It's time to start thinking outside the box. This is a long-winded intro to a charge to brainstorm. Rip apart the platform and rebuild it however you like.

And if you feel the need to mention a 4G63 or 4B11 in a 2GNT, you had damn well better come up with a better idea than just to have a turbocharged AWD DSM. That's an old, stupid idea.

Get nutty with this. Aside from the tired 4G63 swap blather, sky's the limit here. It's a chance to throw out ridiculous ideas, consider the ones that sound like they'd be really cool if they happened, and discuss what might keep someone from trying such things.

DSM needs ideas today more than ever. DSM has become synonymous with mouthy turbo asshole who couldn't afford an Evo. It used to mean "Go fast with class." In the past, going fast meant turbocharging because the TSi/GS-T had turbos on them and the community of technically apt enthusiasts was small and close-knit.

Today, being a gearhead means being on a forum somewhere. Yes, there are exceptions like Darren Thomas in Oklahoma, who puts over 700awhp through a Mitsubishi automatic all day long at the track, but isn't on any forums, but he's the exception, not the rule. Today, there are dozens of DSM forums and thousands of people posting on them daily. The tech and skills are out there.

See something done on another vehicle and figure out a way to apply it to a DSM. That's what this thread is about. So think about the impossible, the improbable, and the downright ridiculous.

BRAINSTORM. Let's hear your most ridiculous, albeit possible on some level for a crazy awesome project someone could do based on a 2G DSM. Tell us why you think it would be cool. This is your chance to innovate.

How about swapping Mazda RX-8 bits into a 2G? Lighter weight, better balance, RWD?

What would it take to devise a hybrid system for the 2GNT? Not for better MPGs (we already do a good enough job of that), but for more torque off the line. Turvo II anyone?

Mid-engine, RWD. How would you go about that?

Front engine, RWD. How would you go about that?

Stop talking about supercharging a 2GNT and do it.

Hell. Turn a 2G DSM into a boat for all I care. I'm just trying to get you guys thinking outside the whole "I have a DSM so I have to do the whole GTwhatever-R turbo and AEM blah, blah, blah" groupthink.

Let's see what you come up with!

B.

You always come up with some of the coolest posts and ideas.

With that said, off the top of my head.

Turbocharged...V8...RWD.

I contributed to the Wiki.

ive always thought it would be cool to do a mid engine rear wheel talon. make up some sort of a fire wall where the back seat is and have a two seater m/r setup.

Thank you mobil one for rust proofing my driveway.

An electric 2g.

I've been considering this for some time. Reason being: Electric transportation is our fate - all other alternative fuels are just a distraction. rant mode on:

-Ethanol will die (creation from corn requires just as much energy input from oil as it outputs. We cannot mimmic Brazil and their reliance on sugar cane ethanol, b/c we have a much greater appetite for energy)
-Fuel cells will die (The overall efficiency does not make sense when you factor in the energy needed to produce hydrogen, ship it, and of course the safety issues involved).
-Hybrids will die (the cost of ownership makes offers no incentive over standard combusion engines)
-Biodiesel cannot be created in enough volume to replace gasoline.
-And finally, most importantly crude oil/gasoline will die. We already hit peak oil, and the worlds growth in demand is on an exponential slope. We will see $200/barrel crude, it is inevitable. Prices will keep rising until your average Joe rejects SUVs, V8s, and eventually even small displacement internal combustion engines.

Electric transportation is proven (see Tesla, Rav4 EV, countless electric motorcycles) though expensive (READ: not economical). That's been the limiting factor. Until now. With LiFeP04 battery technology, it's possible to have enough kWh to get 90% of Americans to work in back for less than $10,000 in batteries. If we can get to $300/kWh than oil reliance becomes history.

That's half the story. The other half is the route we pursue to produce electricity. The naysayers/politicians are uninformed and ignorant of the numbers. While electricity does come from a power plant, the overall efficiency from production to traveled mile is by far superior to oil. We don't need to go nuclear, we don't need coal, and we don't need highly theoretical off shore wave harnessing plants/what-have-you. Just solar. In a place that gets plenty of sun, like the south west U.S. (looking at you Driggs! ) We can use our existing power grid to do it too - just charge your car at night. If our political leaders knew where to put out tax money, we'd already be energy independant by living off the sun. Even at today's current PV cell prices, we could have 70 square miles of solar cells (enough to power the entire U.S.) for less than our exisiting national debt (before Obama made it even worse).

rant mode off
The 2g is perfect suitor for an EV because it is aerodynamic (Cd=0.28-0.29), and with the iron block/fuel system/cooling system/exhaust/transmission/all other combustion related components removed, is relatively light weight. Replace all that with a controller, electric motor, and 10kWh worth of batteries, and you have a daily driver. If you want a 300 mile range per charge, you'd have pay for the 50kWh of battery storage - which is too pricey still.

2gnt: '99 RS-T, killed by a toyota, pending rebuild...
Daily: Volt
Daily #2: '99 EVG ebike- STOLEN by PEDRO

__________________________________
-Ryan

Erik P.
Official 2GNT thread Hijacker
Some say that he's driven over more Covenant than he's shot, and that his grenades aren't where you'd expect them to be...
All we know is, He's not The Stig... But he is The Stig's Spartan cousin!

RWD front engine 420a powered 2gnt! 2.0L and GT35R would be the turbo of choice for that! Fat tires in the back!! The frame probably wont take it, but it would be awesome if somebody would do it!

I wish I had blown it, believe me, I do...

Erik, you make some good points. My hope (however foolish) is that efficient automated mass transit will come into play before we run out of gas. It might be possible, but we're not far from a million Chinese people with H2s, so we're pretty much fucked.

I love the idea of solar. Ironically, a Chinese firm is building a large factory here in the valley to build solar panels. Meanwhile, our biggest university - ASU - is focused on real estate growth more than turning out innovative entrepreneurs, so I don't see Phoenix becoming its own solar center. Arizona has massive potential for solar, but we're just not investing in it. Just real estate and tourism because, well, get rich quick and get out is the order of the day.

I think an electric 2G would be cool, actually. I don't like the idea of cars being limited by charge though. This is a big country and we need to be able to go 300-500 miles at a time. It's not hard to see how the airlines are reducing flights, overbooking the flights that remain, continuing to be unprofitable, and treating people like cattle. If fuel goes away, the country will come to a grinding halt without diesel trucks moving freight. Rail will become crowded with freight trains because delivery vehicles could only go so far on a charge. Bureaucracy will result in decades for new, passenger rail to be implemented, leading to people being packed into passenger cars like cattle in the skies. The days of freedom within America will be over.

A bit pessimistic, but to prove a point. Even if America cuts its energy consumption my 90%, burgeoning new markets like China and India will continue to suck the planet dry. For that reason, vehicles need to become more lightweight (remove all the heavy saftey equipment and driving aids - if you need them to drive, you shouldn't be driving in the first place) and battery technology needs to be advanced dramatically.

Hybrids just piss me off. The additional weight of the batteries hampers any semblance of performance, rendering any hybrid vehicle a sloppy turd of a glorified golf cart. The technology required to integrate dual modalities makes for a ridiculously complex machine which is constantly evolving. (If computers are obsolete within 18 months, much of a car would be obsolete in the same fashion.) And the cost to implement such technologies outweighs any advantage of mileage, which is often, even in the case of the poseur Prius, barely better (if not worse) than that of simple, small displacement turbo diesels.

Consider how Honda Insight owners (in California, go figure) recently sued Honda for misrepresentation when their precious hybrids failed to deliver 50mpg as suggested in marketing materials. Yet everyone who's tested the simple Audi A3 TDi raves about how it's a great driving little car that you'd be hard-pressed to get less than 40mpg around town in it. Compound that with the common praise VW gets for their diesel Golf and Jetta, which advertise 35mog, yet consistently average closer to 47!

I ramble. Where is noboost when we need a 'tldr' reply?

Back on topic, Terry and I casually spoke a while back about a small displacement turbo diesel 2G DSM. Old school muscle car guys are dropping Powerstrokes in Chevelles, making 500hp/1000lb-ft and still getting 30mpg around town, why aren't we trying this with a DSM?

It's not like Chrysler/Mitsubishi don't offer diesels in other models or markets. Consider the Mitsubishi 4D55! 2.5L turbo diesel which essentially shares the same block form factor as the 4G63! It makes something like 130hp at 5000rpm, but it makes 220lb-ft at 2000rpm. That's 20lb-ft more than a 4G63 makes period!

That would be my ideal dream project. 4D55-powered DSM. Maybe a larger turbo, but I like to think that it wouldn't be hard to make 300hp and over 400lb-ft with one of those and still get upwards of 30mpg.

Anybody else have any random ideas? Hope my long winded diatribe got some wheels turning this evening...

Honestly I'd hate going through the wiring process but I've had the crazy idea to drop a Suby boxer engine and trans up into a GSX. Cap the front axles and replace the center diff with a spool and you've got a mean RWD 2G with a lower center of gravity. Could make a nice track monster.

Yeah, you'd have to modify the hell out of the tunnel and crossmember to get the trans to fit, as well as making some way to mount the engine itself, but it could be done.

Personally I don't care for electric cars, They just don't have the battery capacity for any decent range, and the weight that has to be added for the batteries is just outrageous. The other annoyance that I have is that charging the batteries requires more energy from outside sources like coal powerplants. Everybody keep saying, "We need electric cars!" but they don't realize that the vast majority of US power is coal and oil derived. What the hell do they think is charging their electric cars? Magic? It takes a good deal MORE oil/coal to charge a small electric car to run 200+ miles than the equivalent amount of gasoline for a chevy suburban with a 454 under the hood. Chew on that the next time you think about electric.

What we really need is small nuclear reactors under the hood.

Erik P.
Official 2GNT thread Hijacker
Some say that he's driven over more Covenant than he's shot, and that his grenades aren't where you'd expect them to be...
All we know is, He's not The Stig... But he is The Stig's Spartan cousin!

LS 1 2 3 4 are all small block based designs. if a ls1 wont fit....neither will any of the others.

SBC has been put into a 2GNT already therefore LS1 will fit or can be made to fit. Anything RWD will have to be MADE TO FIT in otherwords WELDING required.

How about a TT on a fully buit 420a,2.4 stratus or a stroker, and tuned on MSnS.

Me thinks I remembers something of a Chrysler Midget motor, that might be fun

EDIT:http://www.allpar.com/mopar/la4.html

Representing the Central Cali chapter of 2GNT!
(I think I'm the only member )

This would be neat....with a RWD setup of course.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PORSCHE-928-ENGINE-1982-4-5_W0QQitemZ170423929528QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item27ae0ecab8

getty up

-kent-




'98 Talon...gone, but not forgotten