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ModeratorVX100Sep-30-09 04:08 PM
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#41808, "crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu"




          

The insurance highway institute crashed a 59 bel air at 40mph into a 09 malibu.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/InsureYourCar/crash-test-1959-chevy-vs-2009-chevy.aspx



First, it's a shame to wreck a classic to do the test, but still the test shows the classic car did not do such a good job protecting the passenger. It didn't even have seat belts as no one used them at the time anyway, but even if you disregard seat belts and air bags, you see the frame didn't hold up too well.

We'd like to think how some of those old cars were so solidly built (and some were) but today's cars are designed for impacts and designed to sacrifice themselves to protect the passengers.

Still, a shame to crash a classic...

"Tutto fa brodo."

Todd Scungio
98 RS
15.173 @ 90.70 MPH

And also a 2011 Ralliart

  

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RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu, AdministratorCODE4, Oct-01-09 07:21 AM, #1
RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu, Uberingram, Oct-01-09 09:25 PM, #2
RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu, Moderatormicyek, Oct-02-09 05:06 PM, #3
      RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu, freelancefool, Oct-03-09 05:28 AM, #4
           RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu, RoninEclipse2G, Oct-03-09 11:28 AM, #5
                RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu, Uberingram, Oct-03-09 11:37 AM, #6
                     RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu, djtrickee, Oct-03-09 11:40 AM, #7
                          RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu, RoninEclipse2G, Oct-03-09 11:46 AM, #8
                               RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu, Uberingram, Oct-03-09 01:57 PM, #9
                                    RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu, Keith2172, Oct-06-09 09:34 AM, #10
                                         RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu, ModeratorVX100, Oct-06-09 09:13 PM, #11
                                         RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu, Uberingram, Oct-07-09 09:31 AM, #12
                                         RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu, RoninEclipse2G, Oct-07-09 05:20 PM, #13
                                              RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu, Keith2172, Oct-08-09 11:27 AM, #14
                                                   RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu, Uberingram, Oct-10-09 09:13 AM, #15
                                                        RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu, RoninEclipse2G, Oct-10-09 12:17 PM, #16
                                                             RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu, ModeratorVX100, Oct-13-09 04:09 PM, #17

AdministratorCODE4Oct-01-09 07:21 AM
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#41812, "RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu"
In response to Reply # 0




          

Interesting to watch in slow motion. I agree it is sad to see that Bel Air destroyed.

---

2012 2500HD LML


  

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UberingramOct-01-09 09:25 PM
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#41820, "RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Originally posted by VX100
The insurance highway institute crashed a 59 bel air at 40mph into a 09 malibu. http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/InsureYourCar/crash-test-1959-chevy-vs-2009-chevy.aspx First, it's a shame to wreck a classic to do the test, but still the test shows the classic car did not do such a good job protecting the passenger. It didn't even have seat belts as no one used them at the time anyway, but even if you disregard seat belts and air bags, you see the frame didn't hold up too well. We'd like to think how some of those old cars were so solidly built (and some were) but today's cars are designed for impacts and designed to sacrifice themselves to protect the passengers. Still, a shame to crash a classic...


That tripe was propaganda and staged. Now, I'm not saying that 50 year old cars are super safe but this test was far from fair.

1) They chose a car with known engineering flaw, x-frame.

2) They set up and angled the crash to take advantage of said flaw.

Somebody much more familiar with vintage cars and safety posted this:


This is a stupid PR stunt done by an Insurance Industry group to pat themselves on the back for lobbying the last 50 years. Think a bit about the vehicles involved, and the type of crash being done. It's very misleading and naive to take it at face value.

Yes, they used the x-frame until 64, when they switched to a regular full frame. Ford took shots at them over side impacts, and they switched at the end of the cycle

Again, it's a misleading test. They use a 59 to match the 50 years, but instead of tossing a 59 Imperial against a '09 Sebring, they do this test against probably the weakest design of its era. The front off-set crash is also one the 59 would fare the worst in, vs say head on.

Nobody is claiming late 50's cars were perfectly safe by any stretch of the imagination. Those cars from the 50's did have some ridiculously serious safety problems: seats not securely bolted down, often no dual cylinder brakes, no shoulder belts + poorly designed/secured lap belts (which were optional!), interiors covered in pointy metal/unpadded dashboards, steering columns that didn't collapse and instead shot through your chest like a javelin, non-safety glass, etc etc. Every single one of these things was corrected by law by 1968 at the latest. There's an enormous difference from 59 to 69, which brings me to:

The worst thing about this video, besides it being pointless, is it just means more idiots will rant about how dangerous any era 'old car' is, without a clue what they are talking about, or what safety features came along and when, etc. The same people who seem to think something like a 71 Caddy is an instant death trap in comparison to something like a 92 Cabriolet/Miata with an airbag, or the civic I linked earlier.


1000 frames per second makes for some pretty bad ass shots but take this one with a huge boulder of salt.

__________________________________________
~Chris
03 SRT-4

  

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ModeratormicyekOct-02-09 05:06 PM
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#41823, "RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu"
In response to Reply # 2
Oct-02-09 05:10 PM by micyek

          

Originally posted by Uberingram
Originally posted by VX100 all that stuff


Doesn't that argument against the test support what the test was all about in the first place? Cars are now safer. I'm just playing devils advocate here. I'm just thrilled that my money went towards that pointless test in the first place. Whether it be tax money or the money I pay to the insurance company that pays the "insurance institute". As if we are all drive 50 year old cars now days. The road are filled with them.

My first car, 1972 cutlass supreme, did have shoulder harnesses. but they weren't retractable and they spent their entire lives folded in their little holder above the door.

I could care less that cars are safer...we need to get rid of the stupid anyway...including me. LOL

getty up

-kent-




'98 Talon...gone, but not forgotten

  

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freelancefoolOct-03-09 05:28 AM
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#41825, "RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu"
In response to Reply # 3




          

Not really. They took a car that was poorly designed to withstand a certain type of impact and used it. There are other cars from that model year that would destroy the impala and come out in much better shape.

My Blog

  

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RoninEclipse2GOct-03-09 11:28 AM
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#41828, "RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu"
In response to Reply # 4
Oct-03-09 11:31 AM by RoninEclipse2G



          

Originally posted by freelancefool
Not really. They took a car that was poorly designed to withstand a certain type of impact and used it. There are other cars from that model year that would destroy the impala and come out in much better shape.

This.

Like the guy mentioned, if they had used an Imperial or something similar instead of a Belaire the newer car would have been demolished while the older vehicle would have needed some bondo and paint (yes I'm exaggerating, but not by too much)

Personally I think that many of the safety features on newer cars SHOULD be removed. Too many drivers have become lazy and soft in the head when it comes to their driving and awareness because the car will most likely keep them from suffering major injuries in all but the worst of accidents. Try driving something small and unsafe on normal roads, you'll gain an awareness of the road that you never thought possible. It's like being a mouse trying to walk through a room of sleeping cats. You become hyper-aware of your surroundings when death lurks around every turn. More drivers need this awareness.

When I drive the 914 I can tell you how many cars are round me and where they are without even doing a mirror check. Why? Because most of them could kill me just by not looking before they change lanes (which happens all the freaking time)

Erik P.
Official 2GNT thread Hijacker
Some say that he's driven over more Covenant than he's shot, and that his grenades aren't where you'd expect them to be...
All we know is, He's not The Stig... But he is The Stig's Spartan cousin!

  

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UberingramOct-03-09 11:37 AM
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#41829, "RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu"
In response to Reply # 5


          

Originally posted by RoninEclipse2G
become hyper-aware of your surroundings


This.

__________________________________________
~Chris
03 SRT-4

  

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djtrickeeOct-03-09 11:40 AM
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#41830, "RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu"
In response to Reply # 6




          

Originally posted by Uberingram
This.


That.

.........................................................................................................................

Built. That's All...
.........................................................................................................................
www.monkeybuttpirate.com
.........................................................................................................................
2 Fingers of Scotch with a milk back... Stat!

  

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RoninEclipse2GOct-03-09 11:46 AM
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#41831, "RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu"
In response to Reply # 7




          

Originally posted by djtrickee
Originally posted by Uberingram This.
That.

LOL

Erik P.
Official 2GNT thread Hijacker
Some say that he's driven over more Covenant than he's shot, and that his grenades aren't where you'd expect them to be...
All we know is, He's not The Stig... But he is The Stig's Spartan cousin!

  

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UberingramOct-03-09 01:57 PM
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#41832, "RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu"
In response to Reply # 8


          

Originally posted by RoninEclipse2G
Originally posted by djtrickee
Originally posted by Uberingram This.
That.
LOL


el oh el.

__________________________________________
~Chris
03 SRT-4

  

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Keith2172Oct-06-09 09:34 AM
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#41866, "RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu"
In response to Reply # 9


          

I appreciate that the safety concerns of an older vehicle are discussed as if they're news to the people that drive them. It's similiar to walking up to a guy smoking a cigarette and saying, "you know those things will kill you!" No shit, I know that, you know that, everybody fricken knows that. I've just made a choice, and thank God we live in a country that allows us to make choices, to do something inspite of the negative aspects to it. Those that drive cars from the 50's-60's are most likely aware of the safety concerns and the benefits of enjoying the drive outweigh the downsides.

I don't agree with those suggesting that added safety features of new cars are inherently dangerous, that just doesn't make sense. It's not the cars dumbing down society, it's our society not taking pride in itself and doing better that is dumbing down society.

Representing the Central Cali chapter of 2GNT!
(I think I'm the only member emoji )

  

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ModeratorVX100Oct-06-09 09:13 PM
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#41880, "RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu"
In response to Reply # 10




          

I've had my uncle tell me a story about how he crashed a car (don't remember what it was) into a shed back about a million years ago (hehe) and practically nothing happened to the car. Sure it's just an anecdote, but I know some of those old cars were tanks, just not the bel air it seems. But even those tanks back then were not designed with today's standards for passenger protection in mind.

Todays cars are designed to turn into metal accordins to keep the driver safe. I think that was the main point of the video and the test. I'm sure a number of huge old cars made later on, say in the late 60s, would fare better than a modern mid sized car, but would the passenger?

The bel air was very popular back then, lots of people drove them so they were a common vehicle of the era, bad frame design or not that is what people owned, so with that comment of someone in that other article arguing about a redesign 5 years later is a bit moot. That is what people drove then.

Also, it's weight is about the same as most mid size cars today (about 3600 lbs, most mid size sedans have gone on weight gainer lately and are about 3500 lbs., see the new accord or mazda 6 for some portly examples) so it was a comparison of about the same weight vehicles from different eras which takes the mass argument out of the equation. Something heavier like an Imperial would have to be crashed into a heavier modern vehicle for a more even comparison of salient safety features, design, and performance.

If the car doesn't do well in an offset crash (which is a not an uncommon accident) then that would suck for whoever was in one, however it was desiged. Arguing that things changed drastically in 1968 does seem to prove the other point, as those changes in design were due to new laws in place, not due to the US auto makers suddenly deciding to design for safety. I'm sure they did not. We've all seen how resistant to change the auto industry can be.

Now, I'm not trying to go out of my way to knock classics. I love good classic cars as I think they just have more style and soul than most cars today. I like the bel air too (well, not the 59 as much, 55 or 56 is nicer, and 57 was a good year for a lot of cars, bel air, t-bird... I could go on). Hell, my dad owned two of them. But sometimes people are arguing too much out of pride to protect "the way things used to be" and they just have to admit "the good old days wern't always good."

Generally speaking, cars are safer today. They are designed with that in mind, highway institute grandstanding or not. (and I know they were grandstanding with this test) And that the number of deaths per mile driven is lower is amazing in spite of most drivers being lazier these days with no awareness and not paying attention to what they are doing, which I agree with 100% that this is the case today.

So maybe from this test we can simply say a 59 bel air doesn't do as well as an 09 malibu and it is not necessairly representative of other cars of that era, or of this era. Maybe it does show what will happen, generally speaking, between old and new cars. Perhaps some more sacrifices are needed, heheh.

Good discussion my friends.

"Tutto fa brodo."

Todd Scungio
98 RS
15.173 @ 90.70 MPH

And also a 2011 Ralliart

  

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UberingramOct-07-09 09:31 AM
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#41883, "RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu"
In response to Reply # 11


          

Originally posted by VX100
So maybe from this test we can simply say a 59 bel air doesn't do as well as an 09 malibu and it is not necessairly representative of other cars of that era, or of this era.


The ONLY thing this test represents is that a 59 Bel Air will do poorly in an offset frontal collision with an 09 Malibu. If the insurance lobbyists wanted a fair comparison on safety features over 50 years they should have widened the spectrum of cars and crash types. Not like there's a huge abundance of '59 era cars to smash up though. emoji

__________________________________________
~Chris
03 SRT-4

  

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RoninEclipse2GOct-07-09 05:20 PM
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#41902, "RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu"
In response to Reply # 10




          

Originally posted by Keith2172
I don't agree with those suggesting that added safety features of new cars are inherently dangerous, that just doesn't make sense. It's not the cars dumbing down society, it's our society not taking pride in itself and doing better that is dumbing down society.


You're partially right, but I will stand by my statement that driving a car with a hint of fear makes you a supremely better driver. I really feel that it's a combination of 2 things that's causing the rise of idiots on the road, the hyper safety of the vehicles and the lackluster licensing requirements that are in place.

Take and compare our safety and licensing requirements to countries like Japan and Germany. First, those countries have fewer vehicle safety equipment regulations, fewer onroad laws, and considerably less traffic regulation enforcement. Second, their licensing requirements are much more expensive and difficult to pass. Germany's license test requires a YEAR of logged hours with a licensed instructor which will cost between $1000-2000 US just to be able to take the test, and the actual test costs another ~$1000. Somewhere around 50% of test takers don't even pass the 1st time! Japan is similar. America's license tests look like a retard wrote them compared to other countries testing

What does this result in? Even though German and Japanese market cars aren't as safe as American market cars, they have considerably less accidents per capita of drivers. IIRC Japan has something like 30% less accidents and Germany is closer to 60% less.

Another issue I have with all the safety crap is the weight that it adds to the cars. Weight results in reduced fuel economy and higher emissions (even though I believe that global warming is a load of crap) If cars weren't getting bigger and heavier it would be easier to reach all the lofty goals that everyone's demanding for fuel economy. To give an example I'll use a turbo Subaru. An 08 WRX gets the same gas mileage as an 04 (around 25mpg highway average) even though the engine design is updated and could get even better fuel mileage IF the car wasn't heavier than the 04. Take thatsame engine and drop it in an 01 which weighs several hundred pounds less and you can jump up to 28 mpg average easy. Now lets get crazy and throw that engine in an 1800lb Porsche 914, you'll get OVER 30mpg while cruising on the highway and still have 230 turbo charged ponies under your butt.

overweight cars suck

Erik P.
Official 2GNT thread Hijacker
Some say that he's driven over more Covenant than he's shot, and that his grenades aren't where you'd expect them to be...
All we know is, He's not The Stig... But he is The Stig's Spartan cousin!

  

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Keith2172Oct-08-09 11:27 AM
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#41920, "RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu"
In response to Reply # 13
Oct-08-09 11:32 AM by Keith2172

          

But overweight cars sail over speedbumps at 50 and don't feel them. From an enthusiast stand point one would be encouraged to drag all the weight out of the car and do away with such B.S. as ABS and the sort, learn to drive the car like a man and have fun. From a consumer stand point the sacrifice of a few mpg is worth the safety of a heavier (we're risking a more weight equals safer debate) car, if it's not worth the sacrifice one would buy a Fit or Hybrid or god willing a Tesla.

A person driving a car with less safety features isn't safer because of the risk they are taking, that's like saying I drive better when I'm drunk because of the risk of getting a ticket. And a driver that is overly nervous because of fear is not a person I want in the next lane either.

I get what you're saying, it's that your experience driving a car with more risk has taught you to be more aware of your surroundings and that is what makes you safer than Blondie McBigRack doing her make-up in the rear-view mirror or Albert Pizzafacerson who is more concentrated on texting his hEmo-sexual partner about proper wrist-slitting procedure than the other cars on the road. It's your education that makes YOU safer, not the car you drive. On a technicality every car on the road is as safe as every other if they never get into an accident.

EDIT: And you're totally right about the driving test, there's a DMV district local to me who's entire driving test consisted of; get in car, drive down block to turnabout, turnabout, drive back down block, park, yay! And I knew kids that failed that one too.

Representing the Central Cali chapter of 2GNT!
(I think I'm the only member emoji )

  

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UberingramOct-10-09 09:13 AM
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#41933, "RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu"
In response to Reply # 14


          

Originally posted by Keith2172
there's a DMV district local to me who's entire driving test consisted of; get in car, drive down block to turnabout, turnabout, drive back down block, park, yay! And I knew kids that failed that one too.


Most small towns are like this as well. I know mine was. There was a catch though. Most of the vehicles in town were manual and if you showed up in a manual car they took you to a specific street off the square that had a hellacious incline and a stop sign mid way through it. Many clutches have died there.

__________________________________________
~Chris
03 SRT-4

  

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RoninEclipse2GOct-10-09 12:17 PM
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#41935, "RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu"
In response to Reply # 15




          

Another thing that annoys the shit out of me about license tests is that you can take them in langauges OTHER than english.

The law states that you must be able to read and obey ALL traffic signs. If you can't pass the fucking test in english, how the hell would you be able to read and obey all the traffic signs?

Fucking retarded.

Erik P.
Official 2GNT thread Hijacker
Some say that he's driven over more Covenant than he's shot, and that his grenades aren't where you'd expect them to be...
All we know is, He's not The Stig... But he is The Stig's Spartan cousin!

  

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ModeratorVX100Oct-13-09 04:09 PM
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#41983, "RE: crash test 59 chevy bel air vs. a 09 chevy malibu"
In response to Reply # 16




          

Originally posted by RoninEclipse2G

Germany's license test requires a YEAR of logged hours with a licensed instructor which will cost between $1000-2000 US just to be able to take the test, and the actual test costs another ~$1000. Somewhere around 50% of test takers don't even pass the 1st time! Japan is similar. America's license tests look like a retard wrote them compared to other countries testing


Another thing that annoys the shit out of me about license tests is that you can take them in langauges OTHER than english. The law states that you must be able to read and obey ALL traffic signs. If you can't pass the fucking test in english, how the hell would you be able to read and obey all the traffic signs? Fucking retarded.


Excellent points. I think these are exactly the reasons why it's not as safe on the roads here. There is no excuse in having driving tests in a language other than english.

And in Germany and Japan (plus other countries) I think it can be summed up as this: They take driving seriously. In America (as a whole) we don't.

"Tutto fa brodo."

Todd Scungio
98 RS
15.173 @ 90.70 MPH

And also a 2011 Ralliart

  

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