Who's for and who's against it. I wanna hear some personal thoughts and NO FLAMING. Religion will play a big aspect in this debate. But I wanna know how deep is your conviction in your beliefs. Here are the facts. Massachusettes is the only state to allow same sex marriages and this is only by default and a technicality. The Federal Governemtn does not recognize same sex marriage. About 47 other states don't recognize same sex marriage. So how much role should the government play in the family with much emphasis on marriage. With that said, how different is polygamy when the beliefs in same sex arguement mirrors it?

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"Tell them of us and say,
For their tomorrow,
We gave our today."
-- The Kohima Epitaph

I for one, being a straight, republican, 22 year old catholic, believe in same sex marriage. I dont think that the government or anyone else should have any say when it comes to who you want to marry. Marry a horse for all i care, it doesnt matter. I can understand if a church denies holding a ceramony for a same sex marriage, but it should not be simply illegal. Its not a choice, i dont understand why people take it to heart.

I cant count the number of bumper stickers around the city that ive seen on old peoples cars that show "Man + Woman = Marriage" that i have walked up to and ripped off vehicles. I feel very strongly about this subject, most likely from personally knowing a handful in the gay community.

Don't sell your car to 16 year olds...

95 Eclipse RS - Sold for 6k, totalled three days later
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I personally could give a shit either way. I believe in personal happiness. A gay couple who will probably spend the rest of their lives together as "husband and wife" should be entitled to any benefits as a M/F couple.
My question is, when should I expect Dino and Brian to visit Massachusetts? And also, am I invited to the wedding?

__________________________________________________________
-Tony <--- NOT asian.
'06 Wicked White EVO IX

What I don't get is that Michigan doesn't recognize same sex marriage...but the university I work for does. How the hell does that work?

BTW I could care less either way....just leave me the hell alone. LOL I mean, if your are a gay dude and you see me in the bar...do not buy me a beer, you might just get punched in the face with it.

getty up

-kent-




'98 Talon...gone, but not forgotten

I was raised protestant, but turned my back on it. Honestly I'm all for gay marriage. If you find someone else that makes you happy; so be it. Be it a man or woman, that is irrelevant. My best friend of nearly 20 years happens to be gay. Personally, I can understand why the vast majority of churches don't recognize it. It seems to be mostly fundamentalist christians (A concept which seems to be localized almost exclusively in the US) that are opposed to this.
As far as polygamy goes, in our predominately monogamous society it is generally frowned upon. Personally, I believe if you haven't committed youself to one person, then by all means date or bang as many people as you want. I am engaged so I don't mess around anymore. Monogamy, in and of itself, is an interesting concept. Very few animals exhibit monogamous behavior. Somewhere around 3% in mammals, I think. (I'm sure someone is thinking about birds now. Ornithological monogamy is more often than not social than exclusively sexual.) But I digress, as long as you're not killing people or molesting children, do what makes you happy. But let others have that same freedom; All too often is our society plagued by double standards.

1998 Eclipse RS-T - Totaled 4/23/09 -
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I hate hipsters.

If a guy wants to marry a guy, or a woman loves a woman, let them get married. Does it really harm you? No it doesnt. Then why does the gov't care? Because they are retarded.

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

With regards to non-common-law states I do think same sex marriage should be allowed. Their dictation of "domestic partner" is completely unfair for standard couples wishing not to get married, but share domiciles. Same sex partners are granted legal rights in those states under the same conditions that would not be met if they were a traditional pair. To me religion does not play a factor in this at all, as I am not religious. I do feel laws should be fair to all involved, and not selective based on sexual orientation. We all have the legal right to pursue happiness, and if that is the course of action that allows them to be happy, and it is not interfere with others ability to seek personal happiness, then by all means, allow them to do what they wish.

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Gay people are gettin married folks. Yes. NASTY. Immagine that. Two women... touchin on each others titty-balls. Caressin them, gently strokin those nipples till they get so... stiff! And Erect! Blowin on em.

Men, bar-b-que. I like you. I like you too Dawg. Lets get married man. Its Crazy! That shit is gross!

Don't sell your car to 16 year olds...

95 Eclipse RS - Sold for 6k, totalled three days later
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Don't sell your car to 16 year olds...

95 Eclipse RS - Sold for 6k, totalled three days later
91 Dodge Stealth R/T TT - 3" exhaust w/ no cats, eurethane motor mounts, 300M unbreakable output shaft, kevlar faced clutch, turbo XS BOV, 99 3000gt front conversion, carbon fiber hood. Dyno'd at 386hp. - SOLD! for 5k
98 Dodge Ram 1500 Club Cab 4x4 black on black.

I absolutely positively think its unnacceptable.

leviticus 20:13

13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

thats all

2 sets of injectors is better than 1 =)

I'm going to have to say I 100% disagree with gay marriage. Sorry to go against the majority here, but it's my belief and my conviction.

I'm 22, straight, republican, and Baptist. I believe that the institute of marriage has been ruined in our country, but not by homosexuals alone. Divorce is what is ruining the thought of marriage. When Brittany Spears got married to her friend for about a day, I completely lost what shred of respect I had for her at the point. To act like marriage is a joke or a stunt is just wrong in the eyes of God if you ask me.

___________________________________
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08 F-150

It is my belief that marriage is a legal union and that religion shouldn't play a part in it. You can be married by a judge in the eyes of the law. if you want to be married in the eyes of the deity of your choosing, a minister / priest / preacher can do it as well. I don't believe that religion has the right to prevent anyone from joining in a legal union.

Keep your church out of my courts.

______________________________
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Don't sell your car to 16 year olds...

95 Eclipse RS - Sold for 6k, totalled three days later
91 Dodge Stealth R/T TT - 3" exhaust w/ no cats, eurethane motor mounts, 300M unbreakable output shaft, kevlar faced clutch, turbo XS BOV, 99 3000gt front conversion, carbon fiber hood. Dyno'd at 386hp. - SOLD! for 5k
98 Dodge Ram 1500 Club Cab 4x4 black on black.

2 sets of injectors is better than 1 =)

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Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

div class="dcquote"]Originally posted by DarkOne

2 sets of injectors is better than 1 =)

_______

BPU'd skittle

______________________________
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I truly believe in the "essence of marriage". A man shall live together with a woman as husband and wife, it's a fulfillment of a sexual relationship and their right and duty to raise children. Full Faith Credit clause says states must uphold and protect other state's marriages. Equal Protection Clause under the 14th Amendment says fundemental rights is affored to EVERYONE. However the Defense of Marriage Act (1996) pass by congress and good ole Bill says states don't have to accept same sex marriage. So DoMA takes away creditbility from Full Faith Credit clause and violates Equal Protection Clause. The federal government will not recognize same sex marriage. I believe its their right to enforce from their interpretation of the Constiution and their responsibliity to protect the traditional family structure and values. Remember the Constitution is based off common law which is based off natural law which derived from religion. Framers of the Constitution where the Puritans who drafted it. The Constitution is written off of judeochristian beliefs in which the "essence of marriage" is born.

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"Tell them of us and say,
For their tomorrow,
We gave our today."
-- The Kohima Epitaph

Good point bro, but keep in mind that the Constitution is meant to be interpreted as a "living document" up for the interpretation of a current situation. Not completely based on the fundamentals of a time long since vanished in this country, and elsewhere.

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2 sets of injectors is better than 1 =)

but that was the point of the constitution, that it was not a static document representing a time that they knew would not remain constant. Yes, there is a problem with the way laws are interpreted in this nation. Since when did Federal Government regulate marriage? Last I remember at the end of a ceremony, whether religious in nature, or lawful in nature, it is closed by "with the power invested in me by the state of ______ I know pronounce you..."

edit: correct me if i'm wrong though, i won't be offended

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a marriage is nothing more than a contract in the governments eyes. It has offer, acceptence and considerationo equalling a contract. That is one front the government comes in. The other is the government is given the responsibility and have a duty to protect individuals in a marriage. Take minors for example. When should the government come in, if at all, to protect a child? What about when the dissolution of a marriage is presented? The government has to decided on it. As for taxing, the government does that too. The government has a vested interest in our lives. That's a fact. How much and how far is the arguement.

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"Tell them of us and say,
For their tomorrow,
We gave our today."
-- The Kohima Epitaph

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Don't sell your car to 16 year olds...

95 Eclipse RS - Sold for 6k, totalled three days later
91 Dodge Stealth R/T TT - 3" exhaust w/ no cats, eurethane motor mounts, 300M unbreakable output shaft, kevlar faced clutch, turbo XS BOV, 99 3000gt front conversion, carbon fiber hood. Dyno'd at 386hp. - SOLD! for 5k
98 Dodge Ram 1500 Club Cab 4x4 black on black.

I could give a flying fuck. Let them be miserable like the rest of us and get a taste of divorce court.

Seriously though...I couldn't care less if they did.

_______

BPU'd skittle

Originally posted by slowmitsu
I could give a flying fuck. Let them be miserable like the rest of us and get a taste of divorce court. Seriously though...I couldn't care less if they did.

___________________________________
97 Talon-SOLD
95 GS-T-SOLD
08 F-150

personally i dont care but in a moral sense...it was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

I think we should outlaw marriage.

The divorce rate in california is running at 73% the rate of marriages. We will soon have more divorces than marriages in this state. The vast majority of divorces are filed by women. Say goodbye to half of your income and assets, even if you earned them all by yourself.

Marriage is a legal contract in this country, and it basically allows the other person on that contract to take half of what you own - even if THEY were the ones that destroyed the marriage. Men always seem to get the short side of the stick here

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"Tell them of us and say,
For their tomorrow,
We gave our today."
-- The Kohima Epitaph

1998 Eclipse RS-T - Totaled 4/23/09 -
1998 Eclipse GST - Stroked 2.3l, HX40 fed: Build in progress
2010 Subaru Outback Limited

I hate hipsters.

_______

BPU'd skittle

2 sets of injectors is better than 1 =)

Originally posted by dsmtuner1

Originally posted by Nine5eclipse03

Originally posted by dsmtuner1

Originally posted by totaleklipse97 Good point bro, but keep in mind that the Constitution is meant to be interpreted as a "living document" up for the interpretation of a current situation. Not completely based on the fundamentals of a time long since vanished in this country, and elsewhere.

"interpretation" is the problem with our nation right now. Too many people take every law/document/belief and want it to be contured to best fit their life-style. Get real.

Sounds to me like you believe everything you read in that book. Put it down, and start thinking.

Seems like your catching on

Don't sell your car to 16 year olds...

95 Eclipse RS - Sold for 6k, totalled three days later
91 Dodge Stealth R/T TT - 3" exhaust w/ no cats, eurethane motor mounts, 300M unbreakable output shaft, kevlar faced clutch, turbo XS BOV, 99 3000gt front conversion, carbon fiber hood. Dyno'd at 386hp. - SOLD! for 5k
98 Dodge Ram 1500 Club Cab 4x4 black on black.

Originally posted by Nine5eclipse03

Originally posted by dsmtuner1

Originally posted by Nine5eclipse03

Originally posted by dsmtuner1

Originally posted by totaleklipse97 Good point bro, but keep in mind that the Constitution is meant to be interpreted as a "living document" up for the interpretation of a current situation. Not completely based on the fundamentals of a time long since vanished in this country, and elsewhere.

"interpretation" is the problem with our nation right now. Too many people take every law/document/belief and want it to be contured to best fit their life-style. Get real.

Sounds to me like you believe everything you read in that book. Put it down, and start thinking.

Seems like your catching on

I cant stand bible thumpers. It seems to me, that most people who go to church, are only there because they know they are a bunch of assholes, and they feel like they need to be forgiven. When i used to go, i would sit behind a group of old women, who would sit there and gossip about everyone and everything during the ceremony. Put down the punch, and leave your cult. God wants you to live your life, not spend it reading a book that a bunch of random dudes wrote. And it living your life with someone of the same sex is the case, do it. People dont choose to be gay/lesbian, why should the be punished?

2 sets of injectors is better than 1 =)

_______

BPU'd skittle

OK. I've asked for this from the beginning of the thread and I we all knew religion was going to play a big part. There will be asbsolutely no personal attacks on members of this board. You want to prove that you're a mature and intellectual member than argue the facts and opinions. Name calling and patronizing is uncalled for. Find different ways to make your statment so that it doesn't attack the person, but rather the statement. Yes it is very possible to do so. Now let's get back on track. Same sex marriage is an abominiation in the bible. Although religion is the base for laws, their place in the courtroom is negated by logic. Morals vs logic and logic wins. Morals are put in the back burner and it's proven in Lawrence vs Texas (2003). So how do we decide what stays and what goes then? I have deep true convictions in my morals. There is no doubt about it that it spawns from my respect for the law that was bored by religion. I guess you can say that I'm a dying breed. A traditionalist.

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"Tell them of us and say,
For their tomorrow,
We gave our today."
-- The Kohima Epitaph

_______

BPU'd skittle

2 sets of injectors is better than 1 =)

You quote the most right wing "news" site on the internet? Yeah, unbiased. Totally. You sure showed me.

_______

BPU'd skittle

2 sets of injectors is better than 1 =)

Im done with this now. The only persons opinion who is fighting against it is completely biased. Take it out on your father, dont hate an entire population of people.

Don't sell your car to 16 year olds...

95 Eclipse RS - Sold for 6k, totalled three days later
91 Dodge Stealth R/T TT - 3" exhaust w/ no cats, eurethane motor mounts, 300M unbreakable output shaft, kevlar faced clutch, turbo XS BOV, 99 3000gt front conversion, carbon fiber hood. Dyno'd at 386hp. - SOLD! for 5k
98 Dodge Ram 1500 Club Cab 4x4 black on black.

2 sets of injectors is better than 1 =)

For every study about genetics there is a study done to disprove it. We have not dived deep enough into the human genome to even have a vague concept of what causes what. For every "sure genetic profile" there is a case that goes against the grain and disproves it. To say it's a genetic predisposition is not tangible. To say it is environmentally influenced is also wrong. You must step back and view any case of anomaly as a whole, not the sum of genetic predisposition or environmental influence. There is a much debate about "Nature v. Nuture" but the one clear aspect that becomes of the situation is that environmental stimuli triggers genetic factors. I'm studying this currently, and am currently being taught by one of the foremost leaders of sociology, and medical sociology research in the world.

This goes beyond the debate of whether being homosexual is predisposed or learned. The heart of this debate is truly the separation of government powers from the direct influence of religion, and where those powers are appropriately enforced. Is it right, under the constitution to regulate the marriage of two individuals at a Federal Level? Is it up for the states self governing to regulate the "contract of marriage"? If it is up to individual states to govern, is it right for other states to nullify that contract in light of laws for protecting the contract of marriage? At what point in our government is it appropriate for religion majority to intervene and dictate the regulations that we ALL abide by? Is it even appropriate to have religious influence in our legal system? I do believe this case will eventually reach the supreme court, it will not come down to a religious viewpoint when it does, but more of states right to regulate themselves. The sad fact is, the Supreme Court has been appointed by religiously motivated republican majority (Pres. Bush used much religious debate in his campaign, that is not to be denied.) so there will ultimately be a religious influence in the individual decisions, but how much so?

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2 sets of injectors is better than 1 =)

2 sets of injectors is better than 1 =)

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Originally posted by dsmtuner1

Originally posted by Nine5eclipse03

Originally posted by dsmtuner1

Originally posted by Nine5eclipse03

Originally posted by dsmtuner1

Originally posted by totaleklipse97 Good point bro, but keep in mind that the Constitution is meant to be interpreted as a "living document" up for the interpretation of a current situation. Not completely based on the fundamentals of a time long since vanished in this country, and elsewhere.

"interpretation" is the problem with our nation right now. Too many people take every law/document/belief and want it to be contured to best fit their life-style. Get real.

Sounds to me like you believe everything you read in that book. Put it down, and start thinking.

Seems like your catching on

I cant stand bible thumpers. It seems to me, that most people who go to church, are only there because they know they are a bunch of assholes, and they feel like they need to be forgiven. When i used to go, i would sit behind a group of old women, who would sit there and gossip about everyone and everything during the ceremony. Put down the punch, and leave your cult. God wants you to live your life, not spend it reading a book that a bunch of random dudes wrote. And it living your life with someone of the same sex is the case, do it. People dont choose to be gay/lesbian, why should the be punished?

I'll just ignore that comment except for the last sentence, since you think all christians are the same apparently. I assume you categorize all non-christians as bieng exactly alike as well? Now the last sentence: Don't tell me people who are gay don't choose to be. My dad and mom were married 25 years, before my dad walked out and went into a life of homosexuality. I still talk to my DAD sometimes and know his views on it. Quit placing statements where you don't have grounds to. Your views are from back in stands and your just making guesses now. You need to get off this idea that the everyone needs to be happy all the time. If that was the case we could all just stay doped up and sit at home and then lots of progress would be made, huh? I made my comments based on my views and opinions. You have no need to come in here making comments about not liking christians and calling them all names. I never said I hated you or complained about anything you do, so why are you trying to attack my posts everytime I post it. Keep your comments in relation to the thread title not the people posting in it.

myspace.com/coastiecobb

maybe bringing up my father in this conversation was a mistake, because it has obviously cause misdirected comments pertaining to him in general.

This is my point. All religous beliefs aside for a minute. Simon Levay and Hamer are the 2 most prominent scientists who attempted to perform scientific tests that would prove homosexuality is a trait you were born with. Both scientists data was proven to be inconclusive and actually leaned more towards the fact that there is no difference in a heterosexual and homosexual person at birth. Both scientists have had active homosexual relationships with another male parter. I definately realize that this topic is strongly based more on personal opinion then factual logic, but let the facts be facts.

I mean whether you beleive in evolution or biblical prophecy makes absolutely no difference, in the fact that, male and female were either created or (evolved) for the sake of pro-creation. The body is designed the way it is for reasoning and function. Homosexual partners fullfill no needs other than hormonal, which we all know can be fullfilled be even yourself. So, I guess the question I ask you would be? Where are there any logical grounds for this disposition.

2 sets of injectors is better than 1 =)

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intricatelines.com/ -graphics and vinyls

"Tell them of us and say,
For their tomorrow,
We gave our today."
-- The Kohima Epitaph

2 sets of injectors is better than 1 =)

Don't sell your car to 16 year olds...

95 Eclipse RS - Sold for 6k, totalled three days later
91 Dodge Stealth R/T TT - 3" exhaust w/ no cats, eurethane motor mounts, 300M unbreakable output shaft, kevlar faced clutch, turbo XS BOV, 99 3000gt front conversion, carbon fiber hood. Dyno'd at 386hp. - SOLD! for 5k
98 Dodge Ram 1500 Club Cab 4x4 black on black.

This seems to be a big discussion. I think, if you want to be gay than be gay. I'm PERSONALLY not bothered by it. The first post did want to hear personal opinions. I know gay people, both male and female. Good friends, and a good brother.

IMO peoples personal opinions are based from there morals, more so when dealing with a subject like this. Morals, I think are based on the way you where raised by Moms an Pops and, what you have gone through yourself. I was always told that if i mistreated a lady my father would beat my ass. Was told to respect them from my mother (separated when I was like 5ish) but always the same story from both of them. I know if I wanted to be gay, they would be ok with it. Now if you got up every Sunday and went to church and your parents told you that the word of God is "law". Than most likely thats what your morals will become based off of. I'm not saying that everyone that doesn't go to church will be gay. I never went to church, just saying things of that nature have a huge sway on the way you think. It could be by choice that people are gay or it could be in there blood, like dude said we really don't know a lot about DNA to make that kind of conclusion.

Also, think about what our parents went through when they where young, (I'm 20, we all seem to be around that age, with the exception of a few fossils) and how there parents raised them. That probly had an affect on the way that they raised you. Now think about what we are going through and how we are/where being raised. Thats going to affect our children in some way.

Back to the subject. I don't know a lot of court cases and I have never read the bible. But People are People and if they are gay by choice or by birth, I don't know if the government should have that much say in what we do in that sense. Getting Married is a special thing that should be enjoyed by ANYONE that wishes to do so.... Who invented Marriage any way?