Ok I want to put this together like the best bang for the buck first.

Lets get some good replies on this one please.

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98 ESi
95 GS

well, first stage is honestly tires.

In fact, there should be a Stage 0 for those of you with those plastic 14" RS doughnuts. A 16"-17" setup with somewhat decent tires will give you the single biggest increase in handling. Wheel weight is not as absolutely important as getting a wider contact patch with a properly compliant sidewall.

Upgraded suspension needs to start at the contact patch and work its way up from there, more or less. You can have the trickest coil-over setup in the world, but it doesn't matter once the tires let go...


juan

Yup rims and tires gotta be first. Next would be springs or coilovers plus camber kits if needed. Then struts (which can and should be bought at the same time as springs but I understand allot of people don't have the money, shit I myself still ride on stock struts with skunk coilovers) Don't forget all the shit like strut tower bars and polyurathane bushings.

1999 Eclipse RS (all show)
1990 Turbo Eclipse (race)

How do you guys like the GST or RMDSM sway bars? I know I sold a pair of GST sways to Ryan.

DeanoD if you are here please contribute

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98 ESi
95 GS

I think suspension mods should start off with better Z-rated tires (or V). Z-rated have a softer compound so they stick harder but wear out quicker. A strut tower bar seems to be also a cheap upgrade ~ $50 - performs and looks good. Springs and shocks can easily cost over $400. A beginner's setup would involve getting used springs, but new shocks in my opinion. Shocks can go bad, but springs rarely do. Assume Pro-kits or other springs for about $125, then you should also get shocks. Cheapest would be KYB GR-2 or Tokiko Illuminas, both sets of four would be under $240. Or I guess if they went with Pro-kits and had no money, stock shocks may be able to withstand the 1.3" drop for a while at least. To me, a camber kit is optional on drops up to 1.75". Sure, your camber will be off and wear out the insides of your tires. But if you're an aggressive driver, you will wear out your tires anyways. I wore mine down past the tread bars (insides were worn significantly more), but the center of the tire was worn out too, so it made no difference if I had camber kits or not. I would still get the same life out of those tires. But an alignment is a must since toe may be off, and bad toe wears out tires way quicker than negative camber.

________________________________________

2004 WRX - WR Blue Pearl
1997 Eclipse GS - Royal Sapphire Pearl

Umm ... where do you get illuminas for under $240?? That's $60 a strut! I want in on that deal. Or did you mean tokiko blues?

-"Easy Mac"
05 Mazda RX-8 (RR8 #88)
99 Eclipse RS 398whp & 372lb-ft

Well I dont have all of these so its hard to put "sway bars" ahead of "springs" or vice versa so we should just make a list and average out the general opinion on what goes where.
High performance Z-Rated tires
Adjustable or High Performance Struts
Front or Rear Upper Strut Bars
Lowering Springs
Sway Bars
Light weight wheels
Lower Strut tie bars
Camber Kit

add to this list and I will post and try to get an idea on where to place them. Also I will get some prices and pictures for each and installation instructions.

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98 ESi
95 GS

Cheaper and easier items should probably go in the beginning stages, with touger and more expensive (generally speaking) items later on. But, the bias should be for easier stuff to be in the easier stages.

Let's not forget brakes too!

Also, when it comes to shocks and springs, if you can get ONLY one or the other, we should point out that you MUST get the shocks, not the springs! I have AGXs on stock springs, and the car handles much better. If you run stock shocks on aftermarket springs, you will eventually kill the shocks, and it isn't good for handling anyway.

We should also try and get some info from any 2G turbo guys who autocross, since when it comes to suspension, the mods are exactly the same (I gues because we ARE DSMs, go figure )

Easy stuff: rim/tires (easy to put on car, and no one mounts tires themselves, they can be cheap or expensive but they are defenitely one of the first steps), upper strut bars, brake pads

moderate stuff: shocks, springs, lower strut bars, stock sized new rotors (although I think they are VERY easy to change)

hard stuff: swaybars, camber kit, suspension bushings, big brake upgrades, rear drum to disc conversion.

And, here are a few budget mods:

3rd generation mazda RX-7 rims, 16 by 8 inches, very light (13.8 lbs-16 lbs, depending on the year), should be able to buy for less than $450 now ($500 would be too much unless they were chromed), usually $500 with a set of 4 used (50% tread left) Z rated rubber

New tires, bridgestone potenza RE72s, they are Z rated, good tires, an old tire design so it is cheaper than most other high performance tires, but still effective, don't remember the cost.

GS-T shocks, better than stock, dirt cheap (I don't think GSX shocks fit, but I don't know for sure), I doubt a set of 4 should cost you more than $60, but that is a wild guess when it comes to what they should cost and is not based on any solid info

GS-T rear sway bar for either the RS or GS (cheaper than aftermarket, so it counts as 'budget') The GS bar is smaller than the GS-T, so the GS-T bar is an upgrade for the GS as well.

that $15 camber kit we've heard about

hope that helps out

"Tutto fa brodo."

Todd Scungio
98 RS
15.173 @ 90.70 MPH

And also a 2011 Ralliart

>Umm ... where do you get illuminas for under $240?? That's
>$60 a strut! I want in on that deal. Or did you mean
>tokiko blues?

Oops, I meant tokiko premium performance blue shocks.

________________________________________

2004 WRX - WR Blue Pearl
1997 Eclipse GS - Royal Sapphire Pearl

stage 1- rims and tires
stage 2-lowering, struts, strut bars, and maybe lower tie bar,camber kit.
stage 3-stainless steel braided brake lines, rear disc conversion(RS), cross drilled/slotted powerstops
stage 3(alternate)-Big brake kit with stainless steel braided lines
Stage 4-Motor mounts, and bushings replaced with polyurethane bushings.
Stage 5-weight reduction.
Sound good?

I agree with VX100 on his write up. I'd almost just cut and paste the entire thing. I'll throw in my $.02 anyways....

stage 1: replace any worn or loose components(i.e. ball joints, bushings, brake pads, etc..) wheels >16" and a GOOD set of tires are a must.

stage 2: springs + struts, stainless brake lines, energy suspension motor mounts + shock bushings, F/R camber kits, 4 wheel alignment.

stage 3: larger swaybars, energy suspension control arm bushings, strut bars(fu/fl/ru/rl), x drilled/slotted gsx rotors&calipers up front with high performance brake pad set(also drum to disc conversion for RS).

stage 4: big brake upgrade all around, lightweight 17" wheels, and a trip to the corner weights.

stage 5: removal of everything that adds weight, 6 pt roll cage, another trip to the corner weights.

____________________________
My $.02
95 GS

I say springs before 17" wheels because springs are way cheaper than the 600 to 3000 you can spend on some 17's. Also, springs will help your car look better too, because if you get 17's and don't drop it at all, people will just laugh at the wheel gap.

________________________________________

2004 WRX - WR Blue Pearl
1997 Eclipse GS - Royal Sapphire Pearl

I pretty much agree with everyone on this. I like the idea of going with sway bars before springs though. It gives you time to relearn how the car handles. Plus have the safety margin of a giving suspension incase you push it to hard.

1) Wheels & Tires
2) Strut Tower braces
3) Sway bars
4) Struts
5) Springs
6) Brakes

Just what i think!

05 STi

cheap and i guess somewhat effective:
battery relocation
and things that aren't as cost effective but also add aesthetic enhancement:
carbon fiber hood
racing seats and harness to keep you from moving
steering wheel

jZa
IHS # fo-six-fo-six

"real men don't ride stick"

Carbon fiber hood drops alot of weight off the car, which is good for everything but not specifically a "handling" mod, probably include it at a high stage under "weight reduction" for sure, along with the racing seats, (also alot of weight, not to mention they help you stay in pace better), maybe even fiberglass rear hatch (if they are actually made), other weight reductions techniques, ect...

And Koolade9, glad I came so close on the first try!

"Tutto fa brodo."

Todd Scungio
98 RS
15.173 @ 90.70 MPH

And also a 2011 Ralliart

to espilcEGS, the reason you put on stiffer shocks and springs BEFORE larger swaybars is because your stock springs and shocks can't handle that much load, and you'll be hittin bumpstops really quickly on hard corners.

and I appologize for my misprint. I meant to say >=16(at least 16s)

____________________________
My $.02
95 GS

Well I put my 17's on this weekend and the handling difference is AMAZING! the car turns right now. Its kind of freaky how quickly it turns now. I guess the lowering springs helped of course, but the difference between these and the fourteens is night and day. Plus I have NO wheel gap. Its just beautiful

Toney
'97 RS 5 Speed (totaled)
15.4606@88.42 Mph
96 Toyota Celica GT
88 Toyota Supra NA-T (w/ sports package)
Got Boost?? Hell yeah I-6 turbo powah baby!

congrats. Can't wait to see those.

stage 1: rims and tires (well, really just tires, but you might as well get it with the rims instead of buying two sets of tires).

stage 2: springs, struts, and camber kits

stage 3: strut bars and sway bars

stage 4: replace bushings

stage 5: roll cage



do you want to do just suspension or suspension/handling? cuz then you'd have to throw in brake upgrade and maybe even lsd stuff.

16.1 @ 87.11
http://www.virtuallyinfamous.com

ARD 57mm tb and p&p manifold, Neuspeed STB, Pro-kits, Illuminas, Injen CAI with K&N, 2.5" pacesetter catback,
AF/X UDP, Rear STB, Powerslot rotors, RRE SS Brakelines.

http://evulflea.extreme420a.com/2gnt/stage_layout.html

This is not finished. I know the prices are NOT right (I moved stuff) or the difficulty etc.....

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98 ESi
95 GS

Thanks to this post, I did not just buy springs like i was going to. I actually went ahead and got the springs and the struts. I had no idea that just popping new springs would be bad for the stock ones...so...thanks!

Pictures -

www.JJPhatStrat.com/carpics.htm

Tunes -

www.JJPhatStrat.com/mp3page.htm

since you have some extra room on the price column...you might want to do it like this:

price (low) (high) total (low) (high)

sorry...im an accountant (aspiring :~) looks good!

Pictures -

www.JJPhatStrat.com/carpics.htm

Tunes -

www.JJPhatStrat.com/mp3page.htm

You would in fact better benefit from thicker swaybars before springs. You will not hit the bumpstop.

You would benefit from 16"/17" wheels with good tires over 14" rims before springs as well.

This is for handling peformance so a spring upgrade making you look good has nothing to do with performance.

Just a thought.

Some of my personal ideas. Some may better but this is how I would go at. It is pretty basic and crude. There are more advanced things that could be done.

1.Tires - bigger wheels if you have 14's. RX-7 rims to save money.

2.Swaybars

3.RRE lower tie bar. If you are going to get one, this would be the most critical point. Front lower.

4.Good brake pads - not metal master

5.Struts

6.Springs - eibach pro-kit 1.3" drop

7.polyurethane bushings - get rid of that slop

8.seats - good ones

9.Quaife

10.roll cage - a stiff heavy car can outhandle a flimsy light one

11.lighten whatever you can without losing driveability

No this is not the setup of my car. It is close. I am not adamant about the roll cage and lightening yet because I want to keep its liveability so to speak.

05 Mazda RX-8
06 Lotus Elise

Thanks for bringing up that point MuRiX. I would have responded sooner, but i was out of town. I couldn't understand the theory behind koolade9's post. I wrote RMDSM so they could explain it better. Here is what they had to say:

It is really great to hear that you are enjoying the bars. As far as the comment about bars/springs installation order, it does not make much sense. The bars do not effect travel other than by minimizing body roll. They help the situation on the outside of the turn (less roll means the outside suspension is less compressed therefore it will have more travel and less tendency to bottom out). The short travel on the 2G DSM is a concern, and bottoming out can happen especially when the car is lowered, but the bars do not increase the problem. Have fun!

Michael - RMDSM

05 STi

Murix - I have heard really bad reviews about the RRE FLTB. Is it really that good? If so why aren't more people buying it for only $50 than? I heard that it scraped all the time and that they didnt notice one difference in handling.

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98 ESi
95 GS

Murix, what are good brake pads since not mm? also rotors also if so which kind ?
i just had a question if you get adjust shocks for our car and go from soft to hard etc does this mess with any alin or cast etc? to make your tires wear?
thanks
Michael

Michael
99gs hrc stage 5000 SOLD...
2004 Honda Accord V6 (240 hp)stock
what other car should i buy?? hmmm
Car info & pictures at http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/520269

the reason I really brought up that point is because for about two months, I was using stock rear shocks and my rmdsm swaybars, and the rear would dip way low on any attempt at hard cornering. the swaybars basically transfer energy to the other strut, but when the struts are too weak, they'll both just keep compressing. sure they still helped the handling, but going around any off-ramp at a decent speed, if I hit a bump, it would defintatly hit bumpstop....

altough now I just realized that if I didn't have those bars on, I wouldn't have been able to take that turn in the first place.

but I remember in the rmdsm installtion sheet they sent with them, it even says to use these with stiffer aftermarket springs/shocks....

____________________________
My $.02
95 GS

I think the RRE bar is decent. It does rub sometimes, but for me not very often. Of course I never drive very often. The reason I prefer this bar over the other 3 is that it ties together the weakest point which helps turn in plus it is a solid piece. I do not think it will make a night/day difference but it will make some that should be noticeable. It is cheap and easy compared to the other mods as well. I have the front upper, rear upper and lower as well as the RRE bar. Basically I have all 4 points.

For brake pads, I would look into Carbotech SSF's or Porterfields.

05 Mazda RX-8
06 Lotus Elise

murix, you're runnin prokits right? how much clearance is the front lower bar from the ground? and you wouldn't happen to have a picture of the rear lower bar on the car would ya? I wanna see if it'll hit the exhaust piping.

____________________________
My $.02
95 GS

I thought he has H&R race springs.

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98 ESi
95 GS

check out vfaqs they got a little suspension guide called the 2G turn harder page. Pretty good write up, haha I found out I did everything backwards

http://www.hadesomega.info -car specz and movies 95 Eclipse RS | 76' 280Z | 89' MR2 | 99 Neon | 91 Zephyr
Who sez FF can't drift?

I had the H&R race springs foprever. Most of my pics are with those. I recently swapped to the H&R sports which is a little higher and a lot more driveable. All my newer pics are with those springs. I do not have anything with the rear lower bar on though. I think blkout has some on his page. He has the same bar. No rubbing problems. Speaking of, (major off-topic) blkout just showed up here in England today to vist. He is asleep though. Major jet lag.

05 Mazda RX-8
06 Lotus Elise

Hey Chris, Imma be in England in April! Girlfriend is taking a class in London, so we're making a trip out of it. Gonna be in London for a week, then taking the Chunnel up to Paris for another week. Should be fun!

juan