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Top 2GNT Technical Handling/Suspension topic #32383
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Subject: "Can anyone tell what this is...?" Previous topic | Next topic
CyexmasterJul-07-09 11:45 AM
Member since Nov 27th 2007
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#32383, "Can anyone tell what this is...?"




          

Well actually I know what it is supposed to be but I don't know if that really is what it should be...

Looks kind funky to me...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/95-99-ECLIPSE-REAR-UPPER-X-BRACE-TOWER-STRUT-BAR-2G-DSM_W0QQitemZ140331502836QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item20ac68ccf4&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65:15|39:1#ht_3304wt_1044


Please comment on this, some feedback on the part where 2 of the bars join to the center bar with a bolt and it's a really small tab holding them...

Status- Need to do break-in...



Try not to challenge me, I'd rather tie up than lose. Either way you NEVER WIN.... - Me..

  

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Replies to this topic
RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?, AdministratorCODE4, Jul-07-09 12:27 PM, #1
RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?, Cyexmaster, Jul-07-09 12:58 PM, #2
      RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?, John99RS, Jul-07-09 02:03 PM, #3
           RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?, Cyexmaster, Jul-07-09 02:21 PM, #4
                RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?, Nightfall, Jul-07-09 04:35 PM, #5
                RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?, whtclipse98, Jul-07-09 04:36 PM, #6
                     RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?, Cyexmaster, Jul-07-09 04:54 PM, #7
                          RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?, freelancefool, Jul-07-09 06:34 PM, #8
                               RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?, Moderatorteklein, Jul-07-09 06:50 PM, #9
                                    RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?, Cyexmaster, Jul-07-09 07:47 PM, #10
                                         RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?, whtclipse98, Jul-07-09 08:10 PM, #11
                                         RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?, Cyexmaster, Jul-07-09 08:18 PM, #13
                                              RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?, foggy45, Jul-07-09 08:29 PM, #14
                                         RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?, foggy45, Jul-07-09 08:17 PM, #12
                                              RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?, Warmage12, Jul-08-09 08:46 AM, #15
                                                   RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?, Cyexmaster, Jul-08-09 09:12 AM, #16

AdministratorCODE4Jul-07-09 12:27 PM
Member since Nov 23rd 2003
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#32384, "RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?"
In response to Reply # 0




          

Weak attempt at making a bolt-on rear cage I think. I am not sure where some of those mounting points are supposed to go to.

---

2012 2500HD LML


  

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CyexmasterJul-07-09 12:58 PM
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#32385, "RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?"
In response to Reply # 1




          

lol me tooo thats why I asked. but seems like it's not good quality either.

Status- Need to do break-in...



Try not to challenge me, I'd rather tie up than lose. Either way you NEVER WIN.... - Me..

  

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John99RSJul-07-09 02:03 PM
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#32386, "RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?"
In response to Reply # 2


          

That thing is just all messed up. Yeah, where would that mount exactly?






http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3130861

  

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CyexmasterJul-07-09 02:21 PM
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#32387, "RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?"
In response to Reply # 3




          

not sure and since I don't have my car here I can't look to see if I can find a place it could bolt to. I'm sure the front ones go in the B pillar. Maybe where the seat belt has the up-down adj. ?

Status- Need to do break-in...



Try not to challenge me, I'd rather tie up than lose. Either way you NEVER WIN.... - Me..

  

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NightfallJul-07-09 04:35 PM
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#32388, "RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?"
In response to Reply # 4
Jul-07-09 04:36 PM by Nightfall



          

Looks to me like some weird abstract art class wasted strut bar project

  

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whtclipse98Jul-07-09 04:36 PM
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#32389, "RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?"
In response to Reply # 4




          

Looks like strut towers, c-pillars and not sure on the other two. Looking at it, the section where they all meet up looks way weak. But I am sure there are people who have 2Gens and are ricer will be buying that thing up.....you know who you are. Maybe we should put a ricer intervention group together, have RA(ricer anonymous) meetings and such.

  

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CyexmasterJul-07-09 04:54 PM
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#32390, "RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?"
In response to Reply # 6




          

lol good one...

Have any of you used megan racing struts? I only need the rear strut and lower tie bar. I already have a front strut bar...

Just looking to get the car a bit stiffer, I am going to get the master bushing kit from Prothane to see if that helps also.

Status- Need to do break-in...



Try not to challenge me, I'd rather tie up than lose. Either way you NEVER WIN.... - Me..

  

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freelancefoolJul-07-09 06:34 PM
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#32391, "RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?"
In response to Reply # 7




          

Originally posted by Cyexmaster
lol good one... Have any of you used megan racing struts? I only need the rear strut and lower tie bar. I already have a front strut bar... Just looking to get the car a bit stiffer, I am going to get the master bushing kit from Prothane to see if that helps also.


Prothane bushings won't exactly stiffen the car up. You will find that it might be a little more responsive under heavy cornering loads because there will be less deflection in the suspension geometry due to the rubber bushings flexing.

2g Eclipses aren't exactly known for being stiff. Jack the car up and take some measurements on door gaps. Lower the car back on the ground and measure the gaps again.

Strut tower bars will not help you with that kind of chassis flex. If you want to really stiffen the chassis, cage it. If that is too extreme, pull the fenders off and have a skilled/competent welder start welding the chassis up. Get rid of the adhesive holding body panels together. Drill spot welds out and weld the car up right.

Otherwise, live with the flex and buy some better tires.

My Blog

  

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ModeratortekleinJul-07-09 06:50 PM
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#32392, "RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?"
In response to Reply # 8


          

Originally posted by freelancefool
Originally posted by Cyexmaster lol good one... Have any of you used megan racing struts? I only need the rear strut and lower tie bar. I already have a front strut bar... Just looking to get the car a bit stiffer, I am going to get the master bushing kit from Prothane to see if that helps also.
Prothane bushings won't exactly stiffen the car up. You will find that it might be a little more responsive under heavy cornering loads because there will be less deflection in the suspension geometry due to the rubber bushings flexing. 2g Eclipses aren't exactly known for being stiff. Jack the car up and take some measurements on door gaps. Lower the car back on the ground and measure the gaps again. Strut tower bars will not help you with that kind of chassis flex. If you want to really stiffen the chassis, cage it. If that is too extreme, pull the fenders off and have a skilled/competent welder start welding the chassis up. Get rid of the adhesive holding body panels together. Drill spot welds out and weld the car up right. Otherwise, live with the flex and buy some better tires.


Agreed with cage. Strut bars work well on the 2gnt. But, like Clay said, live with it.

I want to cage my ACR as soon as the 2gnt is done



  

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CyexmasterJul-07-09 07:47 PM
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#32393, "RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?"
In response to Reply # 9




          

So you think my money is better spent in a roll cage?

Status- Need to do break-in...



Try not to challenge me, I'd rather tie up than lose. Either way you NEVER WIN.... - Me..

  

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whtclipse98Jul-07-09 08:10 PM
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#32394, "RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?"
In response to Reply # 10




          

Yup. Depending on what type you get will also affect it. You can get a full cage or just get one that covers the back area. Just depends on what you are looking for.

  

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CyexmasterJul-07-09 08:18 PM
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#32396, "RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?"
In response to Reply # 11




          

Well I want it more for street/strip.. but good handling on the twistys is nice. I enjoy sharp turns at high speed now and then.

Status- Need to do break-in...



Try not to challenge me, I'd rather tie up than lose. Either way you NEVER WIN.... - Me..

  

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foggy45Jul-07-09 08:29 PM
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#32397, "RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?"
In response to Reply # 13
Jul-07-09 08:30 PM by foggy45



          

here, i found my post. . .



Originally posted by Foggy45
short version:
Some people like them and swear by them, others buy a rear strut brace and say that’s fine.
The higher up the C-pillar the seat belt is mounted the more a chassis bar may help. (Think civic hatchback)
if your budget allows, and you want every possible point covered, then get one, or get a cage, or at least a multipoint rear brace.
However if you want to buy just one, I’ll say again; get a strut brace!

Stress Bar Theory Educational Clicky: http://www.e30m3project.com/e30m3performance/myths/Strutbar_Theory/strut_bar_theory.htm



for those that want to read:
Granted any stand alone bar in the car that connects the two parallel sides will inherently add strength to the chassis.

The benefits are a question of where you put it, what you’re trying to improve, and cost ratio.

Also this is a HUGE fighting point on other automotive forums. the civic hatchback guys swear they work, the Silvia crowd argued too much about whether the benefit was there, the 350Z people say nope, and nobody on the Supra forums would talk to me

The 2G has a much stiffer design of the rear "C-Pillar" then the Civic Hatchback that most of these bars were originally intended for.
On THOSE cars they DO work well, but that’s because they have no rear tub that ties the two sides with the rear.
So by design, sticking a bar across the hatch gap will strengthen the chassis.

On cars similar to the 2g, like the Supra, 350z, Tiburon, Integra, S13 and other cars with a Fastback style, the benefits depend on where the bar is placed.

With chassis strengthening bars, they are usually placed in the area of highest strength of the B C or D pillars. Noticeably these spots usually happen to correspond to the placement of the upper seatbelt anchors.

From my research on automotive chassis design, this is now where individual automobile design takes over and the black and white area of uniform placement tends to grey. On some variations, the C-pillar tends to be wide (distance from frame to roof based on B-pillar height and relation to the angle (theta) formed by rear strut towers) and the placement of the bar is much higher up into the passenger space then height of the rear seat.
On other variants where the sweep is longer and the b-pillar height is smaller, the placement is lower than or equal to the height of the rear seat.
On these longer sweeps, the placement is noted to be within 6 inches of the rear strut towers.

The further away from the rear shock towers you get the more an addition brace may help.

As the rear angle opens and B pillar height becomes longer, the length of the top of the C-pillar shortens. Either this is where the end of the glass is and the trunk starts (coups, saloons, notchbacks), or you have reached the end of the car (fastbacks, liftbacks, and hatchbacks)

As this angle increases, the role the lower unibodys impact on rigidity decreases and the more important the thickness of pillars and rigidity of the roof come into play. Coups and saloons work well here because they have frame component that spans the end of the C-pillar and strengthens the frame.

On a race chassis, anything goes. On cars without tube frames and extensive caging (most road race chassis), I found examples of 3 4 and 6 point rear braces. These triangulated the C-pillar placement, shock tower, and the rear frame depending on how many points. Most beyond 3 were custom made.


References:
The Automotive Chassis - Engineering Principles (2nd Edition 2001) J. Reimpell
Engineer to Win: Understanding Race Car Dynamics, (2007) Carroll Smith
High-Performance Handling Handbook, (2002) Don Alexander


______________________________________
______________________________________
"Don't fear the weapon, fear the soul of the warrior using it."
"My CEL only goes off when i remove my battery."

Best sum up of working on a 2GNT
DR1665- "#5. Spike that motherfucker on the garage floor and grab a beer. You deserve it."


Ahhhh Priceless . . .
eclipse982nrRST "its actually lightish red"
RoninEclipse2G "yeah, they already have a color for that... it's called PINK"

  

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foggy45Jul-07-09 08:17 PM
Member since Dec 28th 2003
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#32395, "RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?"
In response to Reply # 10




          

the obvious center ones go with the strut towers
the ones above it go to the rear seat belt attachments on the "C" pillar
the lower ones "supposedly" are supposed to attach to the rear box frame (aprox where the rear bumper support goes into the box)

i made a post a while back about the pluses and minuses to using a rear C brace and a few of the variants.

short story: get a rear brace and if you need more, get some prothane inserts and call it a day.
unless you are all out racing, then pay for a cage

______________________________________
______________________________________
"Don't fear the weapon, fear the soul of the warrior using it."
"My CEL only goes off when i remove my battery."

Best sum up of working on a 2GNT
DR1665- "#5. Spike that motherfucker on the garage floor and grab a beer. You deserve it."


Ahhhh Priceless . . .
eclipse982nrRST "its actually lightish red"
RoninEclipse2G "yeah, they already have a color for that... it's called PINK"

  

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Warmage12Jul-08-09 08:46 AM
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#32398, "RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?"
In response to Reply # 12




          

wow, i have learned info. this is good. W

It looks flimsy, needs to be more like the ones you find in the back of subies and evos. Nice think steel bars and for you extremists welded those suckers straight to the body.

What do you think about seam welding on a car such as ours? Think it would help? Lots of metal to be welded thats kinda just stuffed in there so the body can be rounded.

95 RS sold...

  

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CyexmasterJul-08-09 09:12 AM
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#32399, "RE: Can anyone tell what this is...?"
In response to Reply # 15




          

I would think a cage would be cheaper than welding up the whole car, Unless you can weld decently and do it yourself...

Well thanxs for the info guys.

I might consider a cage, not a full one but a 4 point sounds good..

This might be the excuse to gut all that useless stuff on the car..

Status- Need to do break-in...



Try not to challenge me, I'd rather tie up than lose. Either way you NEVER WIN.... - Me..

  

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