#28213, "Crazy Idea...GSX 2 piston calipers on the rear???"
I've been looking at upgrading my brakes to the Stoptech monster fronts, but I don't want to just buy "big rotors" for the rear...is there any way to relocate the stock front GSX calipers to the rear???
#28214, "RE: Crazy Idea...GSX 2 piston calipers on the rear???" In response to Reply # 0
Originally posted by FlyinEsi I've been looking at upgrading my brakes to the Stoptech monster fronts, but I don't want to just buy "big rotors" for the rear...is there any way to relocate the stock front GSX calipers to the rear??? Please discuss....
if you're going with stoptech it would probably HURT you to change your rears. stoptech prides themselves on maintaing the stock braking bias of your car. a lot of other companies just give you a kit to give major stopping power at the front. the result of this is LONGER stopping distance. just becuase you can lock the fronts faster does NOT mean you have a better braking system. a braking system includes all four wheels and the way in which the braking system is biased. in an ideal system all four wheel are kept on the verge of breaking loose. in a not so ideal big-brake system your fronts break loose (i.e. lock-up) when your rears have a ways to go left. this resulsts in a longer braking distance.
braking performance is all about stopping distance and resistance to fade. pedal response is somewhat irrelevant as it doesn't directly relate to the performance of the car. yes it feels cool when you can tap your brake pedal and make your car squeal. it makes you think you've got some kick ass brakes. it probably also means you have a very small degree of control over your brakes. they are now either "on" or "off".
i've already got GSX brakes but if i were to go with a new system it'd probably be stop-tech. they've got some great technical info on their site that makes a lot of sense. just remember that when it comes to brakes bigger is NOT always better.
#28215, "RE: Crazy Idea...GSX 2 piston calipers on the rear???" In response to Reply # 1
I wasn't just thinking bigger. I love the fact the StopTech brakes are huge, like I think they have a 14" rotor for our cars now, but i would like to take the GSX 2 piston calipers and stick them on the rear with a 13" rotor. I think that would be an excellent combination and the car would stop very fast, and controllably.
#28234, "RE: Crazy Idea...GSX 2 piston calipers on the rear???" In response to Reply # 2
Originally posted by FlyinEsi I wasn't just thinking bigger. I love the fact the StopTech brakes are huge, like I think they have a 14" rotor for our cars now, but i would like to take the GSX 2 piston calipers and stick them on the rear with a 13" rotor. I think that would be an excellent combination and the car would stop very fast, and controllably.
the stoptech kit is balanced to work with the regular rear brakes. changing them means your brake system is no longer balanced. this in turn leads to a LONGER stopping distance. did you read my entire post? if you don't believe me, install your stoptech kit without touching the rears. do a couple stopping DISTANCE tests. then do your swap on the rears and repeat. i guarantee you won't see an improvement - if anything your stopping distance will increase.
stopping distance is the only real way to measure the benefit of a brake upgrade. pedal response is irrelevant.
btw if you've got ABS you're gonna further hurt your braking performance if you change the rears. people don't realize how badly they cripple their ABS system when they do all kinds of ridiculous big brake swaps. you may like the fact that you can tap your pedal and lock your wheels but this means the ABS system also has a very narrow operational range. it bleeds a little pressure and the car is not braking at all. it stops bleeding and the wheels lock up again. doesn't make for a very effective ABS system....
#28216, "RE: Crazy Idea...GSX 2 piston calipers on the rear???" In response to Reply # 1
Originally posted by MCubed45
Originally posted by FlyinEsi I've been looking at upgrading my brakes to the Stoptech monster fronts, but I don't want to just buy "big rotors" for the rear...is there any way to relocate the stock front GSX calipers to the rear??? Please discuss....
if you're going with stoptech it would probably HURT you to change your rears. stoptech prides themselves on maintaing the stock braking bias of your car. a lot of other companies just give you a kit to give major stopping power at the front. the result of this is LONGER stopping distance. just becuase you can lock the fronts faster does NOT mean you have a better braking system. a braking system includes all four wheels and the way in which the braking system is biased. in an ideal system all four wheel are kept on the verge of breaking loose. in a not so ideal big-brake system your fronts break loose (i.e. lock-up) when your rears have a ways to go left. this resulsts in a longer braking distance. braking performance is all about stopping distance and resistance to fade. pedal response is somewhat irrelevant as it doesn't directly relate to the performance of the car. yes it feels cool when you can tap your brake pedal and make your car squeal. it makes you think you've got some kick ass brakes. it probably also means you have a very small degree of control over your brakes. they are now either "on" or "off". i've already got GSX brakes but if i were to go with a new system it'd probably be stop-tech. they've got some great technical info on their site that makes a lot of sense. just remember that when it comes to brakes bigger is NOT always better.
couldn't have said it better myself
----------- the first solution that comes to mind for any new problem with my car usually involves a can of gas and a match...
#28238, "RE: Crazy Idea...GSX 2 piston calipers on the rear???" In response to Reply # 4
If you're buying a $1000+ braking system, don't upset the bias by changing the rears. Either stick with stock, or talk to the engineers about upgrading to a rear caliper/rotor that compliments their front brakes.
Wilwood makes both a 1 and 2-piston rear brake caliper specifically for 2GNTs. (The 2-piston rear is designed to work with their 6-piston front.)
#28243, "RE: Crazy Idea...GSX 2 piston calipers on the rear???" In response to Reply # 5
Here's my thought. First of all, I do agree with ^^ that it's all about brake balance, but here's the thing. If our front brakes are designed to complement our rear brakes, how could upgrading to a big brake system in the front from StopTech still balance properly with the rear brakes. I know the rears aren't overly strong from stock, so does that mean that the StopTechs make no improvement over our stock front? I know for a fact that my front brakes will always lock up before the rear's even seem to do anything. I know that that's obiously safer and more predictable than having the rear's lock up first, but I'm pretty sure there's plenty of room for the rear's to improve without locking up first.
The other option you have if you really want to sport some big brakes (front and rear) and still have brake control (not sure if this is possible with ABS) is to buy an adjustable brake proportioner. That way you can fine tune the amount of pressure going to each end (or corner if you feel like having bias braking).
She's been sold My best friend bought her though, so she's still in good hands.
Daily driver: 1993 Nissan Altima Rocketship: 1985 Honda VF1100S Project car: 1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
#28246, "RE: Crazy Idea...GSX 2 piston calipers on the rear???" In response to Reply # 6 Oct-31-05 04:05 PM by MCubed45
Originally posted by Silv Blt Here's my thought. First of all, I do agree with ^^ that it's all about brake balance, but here's the thing. If our front brakes are designed to complement our rear brakes, how could upgrading to a big brake system in the front from StopTech still balance properly with the rear brakes. I know the rears aren't overly strong from stock, so does that mean that the StopTechs make no improvement over our stock front? I know for a fact that my front brakes will always lock up before the rear's even seem to do anything. I know that that's obiously safer and more predictable than having the rear's lock up first, but I'm pretty sure there's plenty of room for the rear's to improve without locking up first. The other option you have if you really want to sport some big brakes (front and rear) and still have brake control (not sure if this is possible with ABS) is to buy an adjustable brake proportioner. That way you can fine tune the amount of pressure going to each end (or corner if you feel like having bias braking).
good question. at first it would seem impossible to maintain your bias when upgrading. however, through proper piston and rotor selection/sizing you can get a better performing braking system. this is why it's not as simple as slapping on some bigger calipers and rotors. yes your get more stopping power up front but there's a trade off with your braking BALANCE. this is why stoptech and the other high-end companies but a lot of time and research into finding the proper sized piston/rotor setup for each application. i know stop tech has a couple articles on their site about this process. it entails putting on a suggested caliper/rotor setup and then runnning a series of stop tests to measure stopping distance and braking performance. then they take off the caliper and replace it with a slightly different piston/caliper/rotor combo. this is repeated until the optimum point is found. it's a long process but it's the only way to actually ensure you're improving your braking performance and not just making your fronts lock up really fast.
the sad thing is the average consumer will never actually take the time to see how much their braking performance has increased/decreased with a particular kit. instead they go by how the pedal feels and how quickly they can lock their brakes. of course this tells you absolutely nothing.
read up on the stoptech site. they've got TONS of great technical brake info (not just reasons why they're the best etc.) personally i'd be really curious how a front only kit like stoptech's compares with wilwood's 4 wheel kit. that wilwood kit is pretty crazy...
#28317, "RE: Crazy Idea...GSX 2 piston calipers on the rear???" In response to Reply # 7
and keep in mind that the only real performance reason for bigger brakes is if you are racing, when you need the extra mass of larger rotors for heat management. Most people will get a better gain/$ return just by using a better set of brake pads on their stock setup. Porterfield R4-S is my pick for best performing street pad. After that, the next big gain is had by using good, grippy tires.
That said, I do quite like the look of my full AEM FWD setup...
#28324, "RE: Crazy Idea...GSX 2 piston calipers on the rear???" In response to Reply # 8
Originally posted by juan and keep in mind that the only real performance reason for bigger brakes is if you are racing, when you need the extra mass of larger rotors for heat management. Most people will get a better gain/$ return just by using a better set of brake pads on their stock setup. Porterfield R4-S is my pick for best performing street pad. After that, the next big gain is had by using good, grippy tires. That said, I do quite like the look of my full AEM FWD setup... juan
haha yes the AEM's are quite nice if you got ones that actually fit...
i miss mine but i don't really feel like dealing with AEM
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My best friend bought her though, so she's still in good hands.
