#26455, "need some input- autox related" Mar-02-05 05:05 AM by injendsm
ok i am very interested in autox and plan on trying it out as soon as i get a chance. there is a place around here that has a novice school you can take one day of the weekend and then they have a competition the next day so i think i will be trying that out. anyway, i would just like to know how good my proposed setup looks to those of you who have some experience in autox or just know suspension pretty well.
i currently have the following mods.....
tokico illumina springs tokico illumina shocks front upper strut bar rear upper strut bar
im planning on getting RMDSM front and rear sway bars pretty soon and i should be upgrading my crappy rs wheels to the stock gs wheels in about a month. the gs wheels will be wrapped in kumho tires since i can get them for a good price from a local guy. how does that setup sound? also, what should i set my shocks to when i autox? they are set at 2 in front and 3 in back right now for daily driving. thanks for any and all help.
edit---i will also be upgrading my front brakes with the front rc dimpled/slotted rotor kit from ERT which also comes with axxis metal master pads.
#26456, "RE: need some input- autox related" In response to Reply # 0
You want the shocks to be stiff. Some thicker sway bars would help and polyurethane bushings. Tires are the big thing, and my wheels will help with that. I get some gsx brakes as well.
#26457, "RE: need some input- autox related" In response to Reply # 1
Originally posted by WIDECLIPSE You want the shocks to be stiff. Some thicker sway bars would help and polyurethane bushings. Tires are the big thing, and my wheels will help with that. I get some gsx brakes as well.
would i want them stiff both in front and rear or would i want them a little bit stiffer in one area but softer in another? i ask cause i know its better to have it at 1 in the front and 5 in the rear when drag racing so i didnt know if there was a particular setting that would be ideal for autox. the sway bars will be taken care of via rmdsm units. as far as brakes, im planning on the front brake upgrade from ERT which is just some dimpled/slotted rotors and axxis metal master pads, dont think i need the gsx brakes right now but i may get them later on down the road. ive heard the kumho 711's are good tires and im gettin em for 70 bucks a pop mounted and balanced.
#26458, "RE: need some input- autox related" In response to Reply # 2
The basic idea with adjustable shocks is to adjust to what your car can handle. You want them as stiff as possible, but because we're FWD, you may want your fronts a little softer to get a little extra grip to prevent pushing too much in the corners. Thinking of that in reverse, having your rears stiffer will help slide your rear around more. I got into autox a little last summer (not competitively) and its hella fun. Good luck!
She's been sold My best friend bought her though, so she's still in good hands.
Daily driver: 1993 Nissan Altima Rocketship: 1985 Honda VF1100S Project car: 1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
#26459, "RE: need some input- autox related" In response to Reply # 3 Mar-02-05 11:55 AM by RxR_Eclipse
I autox mine regularly. My current setup is
Tokiko illum's sprint sport springs suspension tech sway's - front set to middle neuspeed front upper strut bar no name front lower strut bar no name front upper strut bar no name rear lower strut bar no name rear upper strut bar
Car drives pretty neutral in the dry with competion (v700's) tires, but in the wet I get understeer. I have tried quite a few adjustments and found that a bit softer up front seems to work the best for me.
As for tires the 711 will disappoint you, get either the MX or the 712 in the kuhmo line. The 712 is a good all around tire, where the MX will def hold better in the dry but fail more in the wet. Also the MX will last you about 1/2 as long. For a great auto x tire other than kuhmo, get the falken azenis. Best bang for the buck and you can drive them every day. I have personally seen these in action on cars from corvettes to honda civics at over 25 events and they really do well. I would say mabey 15% better tire in wet and dry than the kuhmo MX or the 712. Again with this tire it will only last you like 25000 miles if your lucky. They do cost a bit more money mabye 7-10 dollars more than the kuhmo's.
Since you have an RS for sure you will want to get rear disk conversion. It will help you more than you would think.
Paint job protection is good to think about, get some athletic tape and cover the front left and right side of you bumper to prevent cone rash on your car...god knows I wish I would have known this trick....
One more bit of advice. Get there as EARLY as you can and ride with as many cars as you can. It will make or break you. Good luck and welcome to the world of auto x!
#26460, "RE: need some input- autox related" In response to Reply # 4
Originally posted by RxR_Eclipse I autox mine regularly. My current setup is Tokiko illum's sprint sport springs suspension tech sway's - front set to middle neuspeed front upper strut bar no name front lower strut bar no name front upper strut bar no name rear lower strut bar no name rear upper strut bar Car drives pretty neutral in the dry with competion (v700's) tires, but in the wet I get understeer. I have tried quite a few adjustments and found that a bit softer up front seems to work the best for me. As for tires the 711 will disappoint you, get either the MX or the 712 in the kuhmo line. The 712 is a good all around tire, where the MX will def hold better in the dry but fail more in the wet. Also the MX will last you about 1/2 as long. For a great auto x tire other than kuhmo, get the falken azenis. Best bang for the buck and you can drive them every day. I have personally seen these in action on cars from corvettes to honda civics at over 25 events and they really do well. I would say mabey 15% better tire in wet and dry than the kuhmo MX or the 712. Again with this tire it will only last you like 25000 miles if your lucky. They do cost a bit more money mabye 7-10 dollars more than the kuhmo's. Since you have an RS for sure you will want to get rear disk conversion. It will help you more than you would think. Paint job protection is good to think about, get some athletic tape and cover the front left and right side of you bumper to prevent cone rash on your car...god knows I wish I would have known this trick.... One more bit of advice. Get there as EARLY as you can and ride with as many cars as you can. It will make or break you. Good luck and welcome to the world of auto x!
thanks for the good insight. do the lower strut bars really help out a decent amount? im guessin you got them off ebay since you listed them as no name bars. also, since you have illumina shocks, what settings do you put them at for autox? as far as rear discs are concerned, i will be putting that on after some more performance parts go on.
#26461, "RE: need some input- autox related" In response to Reply # 5
The lower ones are not really nessisary, I got them from procarparts.com years ago, I belive they are pilot motorsports bars, nothing special.
As for the settings, it depends on the course, if it is just flat course like a parking lot, then I usually put the front @3 and the rear @5. If its a road course with elevation changes then usually 2 or 1 up front and 3 in the rear. It really depends on your car though, all will be different.
I would suggest going to an abandoned parking lot and drawing chalk lines on the lot to simulate a slolum *sp*. Make them about 12-14 paces apart, then just draw a circle about the size of a #10 can. Usually about 5 will give you a good idea of how the car will handle. Also use the chalk on your tires to see where the right pressure is at. Just draw on the side of the tread near the sidewall and if it rubs off you need more air. Basically it just tells you if your sidewall is holding up too.
#26463, "RE: need some input- autox related" In response to Reply # 6
Originally posted by RxR_Eclipse The lower ones are not really nessisary, I got them from procarparts.com years ago, I belive they are pilot motorsports bars, nothing special. As for the settings, it depends on the course, if it is just flat course like a parking lot, then I usually put the front @3 and the rear @5. If its a road course with elevation changes then usually 2 or 1 up front and 3 in the rear. It really depends on your car though, all will be different. I would suggest going to an abandoned parking lot and drawing chalk lines on the lot to simulate a slolum *sp*. Make them about 12-14 paces apart, then just draw a circle about the size of a #10 can. Usually about 5 will give you a good idea of how the car will handle. Also use the chalk on your tires to see where the right pressure is at. Just draw on the side of the tread near the sidewall and if it rubs off you need more air. Basically it just tells you if your sidewall is holding up too.
ok cool. thanks for the tips. btw, what do you have your tire pressure set at when you do the courses?
#26464, "RE: need some input- autox related" In response to Reply # 7
and one more thing ive been pondering is this.....i had been plannin on minor intake and exhaust modifications and then a 50 shot of nx for the track but i am still tempted to boost. should i just stick with my current plans since you really dont need that much power to autox or would 8-12 psi be ok for autox courses?
#26472, "RE: need some input- autox related" In response to Reply # 8
with those mods they're gonna put you in a class where you'll be eaten alive. Just do it for the fun of it, and forget about where you'll place.
You'll need a lot of tire pressure with street tires. The time I went I did like 45-50 psi? (was a long time ago)
A priority over any strut bars is to get a rear sway bar. I upgraded the stock one on my GS to a one from a GS-T, and I didn't feel my car was a tractor plowing the back 40 as much. If you have an RS remember you need to get all those other little parts first. Read corbin's excellent VFAQ on this: http://www.2gnt.com/www/corbin/sway.html
But the single biggest factor will be your skill as a driver. Search on the net for FWD autox driving techniques (esp 'trail braking'), which will probably give you more of a benefit than a spindly bit of aluminium from China.
#26476, "RE: need some input- autox related" In response to Reply # 10
Originally posted by RxR_Eclipse yes i run in street modified, so its not so bad for me being turbocharged.
ok cool. now i need to know which type of turbo would be ideal for autox? would the hrc s16g be good since it spools quick or would i want a slower spooling turbo like the star kit?
#26481, "RE: need some input- autox related" In response to Reply # 11
Originally posted by injendsm
Originally posted by RxR_Eclipse yes i run in street modified, so its not so bad for me being turbocharged.
ok cool. now i need to know which type of turbo would be ideal for autox? would the hrc s16g be good since it spools quick or would i want a slower spooling turbo like the star kit?
I would think a smaller turbo to spool up right out of a corner.
#26482, "RE: need some input- autox related" In response to Reply # 12
Originally posted by 420a-Tnthewerks
Originally posted by injendsm
Originally posted by RxR_Eclipse yes i run in street modified, so its not so bad for me being turbocharged.
ok cool. now i need to know which type of turbo would be ideal for autox? would the hrc s16g be good since it spools quick or would i want a slower spooling turbo like the star kit?
I would think a smaller turbo to spool up right out of a corner.
thats what i was thinking. i figure an hrc s16g at about 8psi should be nice for the courses.
#26475, "RE: need some input- autox related" In response to Reply # 9
Originally posted by juan with those mods they're gonna put you in a class where you'll be eaten alive. Just do it for the fun of it, and forget about where you'll place. You'll need a lot of tire pressure with street tires. The time I went I did like 45-50 psi? (was a long time ago) A priority over any strut bars is to get a rear sway bar. I upgraded the stock one on my GS to a one from a GS-T, and I didn't feel my car was a tractor plowing the back 40 as much. If you have an RS remember you need to get all those other little parts first. Read corbin's excellent VFAQ on this: http://www.2gnt.com/www/corbin/sway.html But the single biggest factor will be your skill as a driver. Search on the net for FWD autox driving techniques (esp 'trail braking'), which will probably give you more of a benefit than a spindly bit of aluminium from China. Good luck, and have fun! juan
when you say with those mods do you mean my current mods or my planned mods? i dont think my current mods are enough to put me in a class with the really powerful cars due to the fact that my car is fairly close to stock. if you meant planned mods, the spray wouldnt be on till mid summer and if i decided to boost....that would be another few months so i would be able to get a good amount of practice in. at least to the point where i felt comfortable with everything. thanks for the corbin link, that had some good info. i will be sure to look around the internet for some driving techniques.
#26495, "RE: need some input- autox related" In response to Reply # 14
Your strut bars put you into a Street prepared class (D I think?). I would recommend that for the first event or two all you worry about is driving. You won't be able to adjust your shocks and suddenly be 3 seconds faster. Shock settings and sway bar adjustments are for tenths of a second, and you may just make your car an ill-handling pig and never know why. In my opinion the best thing to do is get comfortable (read: fast) with the car as is, then start adding parts one at a time. The really fast guys can drive ANYTHING fast, regardless of suspension or tire setup.
All I took with me on sundays were a tire gauge, air tank, and a notebook my first year racing. Hell, even last Sunday we had a T&T event locally and I didn't even take a tire gauge since I had put on the JIC's since last fall. All I wanted to do is see how the suspension changes affected the car. This weekend is our first points event and I'll start tweaking then.
Greg
'19 Genesis G70 3.3t AWD '88 Chrysler Conquest TSI
#26505, "RE: need some input- autox related" In response to Reply # 15
I'm sorry I didn't see this thread sooner. I would love to get some solotime in this year (if Daisy ever gets back on the road - right now she's a damn fine lawn ornament). Unfortunately, internal mods put me into that everyone-knows-what-they're-doing-but-you class too. While I can't share any insight from personal experience, I believe I can explain why a softer setting is better up front on a FWD platform. You want the drive wheels to be as pliable as possible (within reason, of course) to allow them to stay planted all the time. A stiffer rear end encourages it to want to step out (not that it's easy with a FWD unless you're on the eBrake) and it's a way to dial out some of the understeer.
Fortunately for me, I've met the local tech guy and he said he would let me run in whatever the stock class was unless I started eating people up. I think you have to run in a novice class until you win something like three races, then you go into whatever class you tech for. Something to think about. When you go early, there are veterans there who can go out with you to walk the course or make practice runs to give you some coaching too.
#26506, "RE: need some input- autox related" In response to Reply # 16
Originally posted by DR1665 I'm sorry I didn't see this thread sooner. I would love to get some solotime in this year (if Daisy ever gets back on the road - right now she's a damn fine lawn ornament). Unfortunately, internal mods put me into that everyone-knows-what-they're-doing-but-you class too. While I can't share any insight from personal experience, I believe I can explain why a softer setting is better up front on a FWD platform. You want the drive wheels to be as pliable as possible (within reason, of course) to allow them to stay planted all the time. A stiffer rear end encourages it to want to step out (not that it's easy with a FWD unless you're on the eBrake) and it's a way to dial out some of the understeer.
Nice ....the key in winning is finding the sweet spot in which to set them both. Also in setting it to the drivers handling abilty . Me personally would set the rear soft + camber to let it come around with a stiff front-end allowing the rear to roll and almost bring it around. I worked with set-ups on dirt tracks (I know not the same) but we did figure 8's quite a bit.
#26510, "RE: need some input- autox related" In response to Reply # 16
Originally posted by DR1665 I'm sorry I didn't see this thread sooner. I would love to get some solotime in this year (if Daisy ever gets back on the road - right now she's a damn fine lawn ornament). Unfortunately, internal mods put me into that everyone-knows-what-they're-doing-but-you class too. While I can't share any insight from personal experience, I believe I can explain why a softer setting is better up front on a FWD platform. You want the drive wheels to be as pliable as possible (within reason, of course) to allow them to stay planted all the time. A stiffer rear end encourages it to want to step out (not that it's easy with a FWD unless you're on the eBrake) and it's a way to dial out some of the understeer. Fortunately for me, I've met the local tech guy and he said he would let me run in whatever the stock class was unless I started eating people up. I think you have to run in a novice class until you win something like three races, then you go into whatever class you tech for. Something to think about. When you go early, there are veterans there who can go out with you to walk the course or make practice runs to give you some coaching too. Do it, Greg!
hopefully they will allow me to stay in the novice class since im just starting out but only time will tell. my first test and tune should be early may or june.
#26509, "RE: need some input- autox related" In response to Reply # 15
Originally posted by 992gnt Your strut bars put you into a Street prepared class (D I think?). I would recommend that for the first event or two all you worry about is driving. You won't be able to adjust your shocks and suddenly be 3 seconds faster. Shock settings and sway bar adjustments are for tenths of a second, and you may just make your car an ill-handling pig and never know why. In my opinion the best thing to do is get comfortable (read: fast) with the car as is, then start adding parts one at a time. The really fast guys can drive ANYTHING fast, regardless of suspension or tire setup. All I took with me on sundays were a tire gauge, air tank, and a notebook my first year racing. Hell, even last Sunday we had a T&T event locally and I didn't even take a tire gauge since I had put on the JIC's since last fall. All I wanted to do is see how the suspension changes affected the car. This weekend is our first points event and I'll start tweaking then.
thanks for the insight. believe me tho, i am more focused on my driving right now than the mods. i dont even plan on doing any serious mods for a while, im just keeping them in mind for later on when i have the money and decide to use it. for now, the only new things going on will be wheels and tires, a gst rear swaybar, crankscraper and probably an afx udp.
EDIT: Looks like Daisy would only be allowed to play in Street Mod until she's boosted, then they might only let me run for shits and giggles if they have a slot open or I wanted to finally figure out that whole PAX thing. Looks like I have some reading up to do.
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My best friend bought her though, so she's still in good hands.
