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Subject: "ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question"

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Keith2172	Jul-19-04 01:30 PM
Member since Jan 16th 2004 1281 posts,

#272, "ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question"

I am posting this here inspite of the fact that I want to start MS naturally aspirated and go turbo later BUT...
1) Are you running Wide-band or Narrow-band, and what value do you have your EGO set at? The manual says to set it at .45 - .5 for narrow and about 2.5 for wide, that sounded to small for narrow band to me, is this a center value?
2) How do you calculate ignition events for the o2 step%? Im still not getting that concept.

Representing the Central Cali chapter of 2GNT!
(I think I'm the only member )

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RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question, Administrator

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Star Turbo Talon, Jul-19-04 05:45 PM, #1

RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question, Keith2172, Jul-19-04 07:34 PM, #2

RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question, MrSlick, Jul-20-04 04:39 AM, #3

RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question, Keith2172, Jul-20-04 09:03 PM, #4

RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question, Keith2172, Aug-13-04 05:55 AM, #5

RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question, grain, Aug-13-04 07:50 AM, #6

RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question, MrSlick, Aug-13-04 08:46 AM, #7

RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question, Keith2172, Aug-16-04 04:43 AM, #8

RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question, Administrator

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Star Turbo Talon, Aug-16-04 06:17 AM, #9

RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question, Keith2172, Aug-17-04 04:27 AM, #10

RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question, Administrator

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Star Turbo Talon, Aug-17-04 04:57 AM, #11

RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question, MrSlick, Aug-17-04 07:10 AM, #12

RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question, Administrator

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Star Turbo Talon, Aug-17-04 03:30 PM, #13

RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question, BlueMoonEclipse, Aug-18-04 08:44 PM, #14

RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question, MrSlick, Aug-19-04 01:52 AM, #15

RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question, Keith2172, Sep-13-04 05:01 AM, #16

RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question, MrSlick, Sep-13-04 07:02 AM, #17

RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question, Keith2172, Sep-13-04 12:50 PM, #18

RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question, MrSlick, Sep-13-04 05:11 PM, #19

Star Turbo Talon	Jul-19-04 05:45 PM
Member since Oct 21st 2003 8331 posts,

#273, "RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question"
In response to Reply # 0

he runs a tech edge wideband...not sure of settings though

as for ignition he is working with the ford edis setup not ours.

Terry

96 Eagle talon ESI
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges

97 Eclipse
Greddy header - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

Mitchell on Demand copies available

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Keith2172	Jul-19-04 07:34 PM
Member since Jan 16th 2004 1281 posts,

#274, "RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question"
In response to Reply # 1

Yeah, I heard about the EDIS thing, but Im not sure Ill go after that quite yet. I'm almost thinking about the MSD programmable DIS-2 unit to make it easier, but that will come in due time. Im pretty sure those values are a center setting ( .5 for the 0-1 volt narrow, 2.5 for the 5 volt wide) but wanted to make sure.

Representing the Central Cali chapter of 2GNT!
(I think I'm the only member )

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MrSlick	Jul-20-04 04:39 AM
Member since Jul 22nd 2002 1120 posts,

#275, "RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question"
In response to Reply # 2

Howdy,

To answer your questions:

I was running a narrow band with the old setup... but as pointed out my new engine will be using a techedge wideband... yay.
The switchover point should be set to 0.5v for narrow band. The reason being is that where stoich is at on a narrow band... when in closed loop you want to swing either side of that value... just like the stock ecu does.
As for the ignition steps numbers I don't remember off hand.
I'll tell you this though... those numbers are the leassst of your concern.

You will have most trouble finding a good rpm signal, and getting the accell enrichments set good.

For the ignition trigger if you do not modify the MS (I'll tell you how later) then you must use one of the two coil pack trigger wires for the rpm tap. This then means that you have to tell the MS that the motor is a 2 cylinder...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Megasquirt powered 420A
Custom turbo system

http://www.ms-custom.com

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Keith2172	Jul-20-04 09:03 PM
Member since Jan 16th 2004 1281 posts,

#276, "RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question"
In response to Reply # 3

Originally posted by MrSlick
For the ignition trigger if you do not modify the MS (I'll tell you how later)

too much anticipation

Originally posted by MrSlickthen you must use one of the two coil pack trigger wires for the rpm tap. This then means that you have to tell the MS that the motor is a 2 cylinder...

eewwwww, that doesn't sound good

either way I've got a lot more reading to go before I buy this thing

Representing the Central Cali chapter of 2GNT!
(I think I'm the only member )

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Keith2172	Aug-13-04 05:55 AM
Member since Jan 16th 2004 1281 posts,

#277, "RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question"
In response to Reply # 4

OK, More questions, I have been reading the manual A LOT (Im on my third time through taking notes) and I wanted to know a couple things. Dont worry, more questions will come. Here goes:

1) Are you using GM sensors or stock sensor? If stock, where did you get the EasyTherm files?

2) What did you do with the stcok injector harness? Did you get any CEL's? Did yoou have to wire in any resistors?

3) What sensor did you use for IAT? Since you're turbo Im assuming you went to an open cage sensor. Did you leave the stock one tied into the stcok ECU?

4) A little off topic, how did you run the fuel regulator? Can you tap into the back of the fuel rail with an AN fitting, or did you have to go off of some sort of pressure port?

Alright, thats all for now. Thanks in advance, I know it's a lot of questions but I want to go in with as much knowledge as possible. I hope to have the MegaSquirt put together and on the car in a month and I'll be running it NA for a while to learn to tune it more and to see how much it will do for a non boosted engine. OK, back to work.

Representing the Central Cali chapter of 2GNT!
(I think I'm the only member )

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grain	Aug-13-04 07:50 AM
Donating 2GNT member 2551 posts,

#278, "RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question"
In response to Reply # 5

Originally posted by Keith2172
OK, More questions, I have been reading the manual A LOT (Im on my third time through taking notes) and I wanted to know a couple things. Dont worry, more questions will come. Here goes: 1) Are you using GM sensors or stock sensor? If stock, where did you get the EasyTherm files?

use the gm sensors. the napa part numbers are:
IAT: TS4026
CT: TS4015

2) What did you do with the stcok injector harness? Did you get any CEL's? Did yoou have to wire in any resistors?

stock injector harness is usually chopped up, unless you have a spare one. 5 cel right away from disconecting the injectors from the ecu. no resistors that your thinking of.

3) What sensor did you use for IAT? Since you're turbo Im assuming you went to an open cage sensor. Did you leave the stock one tied into the stcok ECU?

yes, leave the stcok iat sensor connected.

4) A little off topic, how did you run the fuel regulator? Can you tap into the back of the fuel rail with an AN fitting, or did you have to go off of some sort of pressure port?

theres a test port off the fuel rail, with a -4an male fitting. so you go off there to the regulator and then from the reg. to the tank. and then remove the stock fpr.

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MrSlick	Aug-13-04 08:46 AM
Member since Jul 22nd 2002 1120 posts,

#279, "RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question"
In response to Reply # 6

Originally posted by grain

Originally posted by Keith2172 OK, More questions, I have been reading the manual A LOT (Im on my third time through taking notes) and I wanted to know a couple things. Dont worry, more questions will come. Here goes: 1) Are you using GM sensors or stock sensor? If stock, where did you get the EasyTherm files?

use the gm sensors. the napa part numbers are: IAT: TS4026 CT: TS4015

2) What did you do with the stcok injector harness? Did you get any CEL's? Did yoou have to wire in any resistors?

stock injector harness is usually chopped up, unless you have a spare one. 5 cel right away from disconecting the injectors from the ecu. no resistors that your thinking of.

3) What sensor did you use for IAT? Since you're turbo Im assuming you went to an open cage sensor. Did you leave the stock one tied into the stcok ECU?

yes, leave the stcok iat sensor connected.

4) A little off topic, how did you run the fuel regulator? Can you tap into the back of the fuel rail with an AN fitting, or did you have to go off of some sort of pressure port?

theres a test port off the fuel rail, with a -4an male fitting. so you go off there to the regulator and then from the reg. to the tank. and then remove the stock fpr.

Thanks for answering his questions grain.

To add a little more info though, I got my sensors at Autozone. Simply ask for Wells SU107 and Wells SU109 if I remember right. I got the pigtails for the sensors from NAPA.

And the missing info from the puzzle... how to read the Tach. signal correctly from the stock ecu and have no problems... That I shall tell you later...

I have it figured out and it's very easy. just a few mods to the MS are all that's required.

And as far as the injectors go, it should be no problem to wire in resistors to fool the stock ecu. I'll be testing that this weekend more than likelly. My car is back running again with my new motor and turbo.

grain: Did you get all your install finished yet? Do you have the car running yet?
Curious to see who's gonna have the 2nd 2GNT with MS power...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Megasquirt powered 420A
Custom turbo system

http://www.ms-custom.com

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Keith2172	Aug-16-04 04:43 AM
Member since Jan 16th 2004 1281 posts,

#280, "RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question"
In response to Reply # 7

Thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate it. Tell me how the resistor thing goes. I was told by an elec. engineer friend of mine that fuel injectors act a lot like inductors and so, if the computer is paying too much attention to the injectors for resistors to work then maybe that ought to be tried. And as far as this mod to MS for ignition, do I need to get a bootloader or something for this, I want to have everything before I put it on. On a side note, I'll probably not beat Grain to the proverbial MS punch, but I'll definately be the first to run it NA , and thats gotta be worth something.

Representing the Central Cali chapter of 2GNT!
(I think I'm the only member )

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Star Turbo Talon	Aug-16-04 06:17 AM
Member since Oct 21st 2003 8331 posts,

#281, "RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question"
In response to Reply # 8

you are dealing with a DC current so inductance is not going to be an issue. Inductance only plays a part in AC current due to the 60 hertz cycle that our electricial system operates at. the inductance causes the phasing to distort hence the reason Capacitor banks are installed on three phase ovhd electrical systems. The capacitor counteracts the phase distortion cause by three phase motors and equipment. (these motors act as inductors to the system. With DC there is no cycle rate therefore the voltage and "time" is not altered/distored.

I am not the best at explainign this without diagrams and picture but i hope this gives you an idea why you would be able to substitute resistors in place of injectors.

Terry

Best way to understand is to view AC on an occilloscope.
Inductance causes voltage to lag the current. When capacitance is intruduced into the circuit the voltage will lead the current. In DC current there are no cycles, therfore no problem. 12v dc stays 12v dc constant. in AC current each phase cycles at 60 hertz, goes from 0 v to 120v to 0 and back to 120 60 times a second (120/240v residential circuit for example)

96 Eagle talon ESI
Greddy header - Greddy exhaust

97 Eclipse
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Apexi SAFC - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

Mitchell on Demand copies available

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Keith2172	Aug-17-04 04:27 AM
Member since Jan 16th 2004 1281 posts,

#282, "RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question"
In response to Reply # 9

Im not an electrical engineer by any stretch, but that made some sense. Is there a simple formula for figuring out how much of a resistor to use? Does impedance really matter for this formula or just the ohm rating?

Representing the Central Cali chapter of 2GNT!
(I think I'm the only member )

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Star Turbo Talon	Aug-17-04 04:57 AM
Member since Oct 21st 2003 8331 posts,

#283, "RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question"
In response to Reply # 10

I am not good explaining some things and that is one...but i can draw one hell of a crappy diagram..lol

Impedance is the ohm measurement basically. I would install 13-15ohm 10watt or larger resistors. I say 10w because some guys here used 10watt for the resistor pack when running low impedance injectors on our circuit and had no problems. I have no idea what the factory gst pack is. If you get too low of a resistor it will burn out. i would say look for 20w if they are made just for security. they will need a heatsink and you will have to monitor the heat temp for the first month to be safe. When i build mine thats the route i am going. Hopefully i will have my kit ordered by mid next month. Keep me posted if you get around to this before i do, if not i will do the same.

Terry

96 Eagle talon ESI
Greddy header - Greddy exhaust

97 Eclipse
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Apexi SAFC - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

Mitchell on Demand copies available

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MrSlick	Aug-17-04 07:10 AM
Member since Jul 22nd 2002 1120 posts,

#284, "RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question"
In response to Reply # 11

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
I am not good explaining some things and that is one...but i can draw one hell of a crappy diagram..lol Impedance is the ohm measurement basically. I would install 13-15ohm 10watt or larger resistors. I say 10w because some guys here used 10watt for the resistor pack when running low impedance injectors on our circuit and had no problems. I have no idea what the factory gst pack is. If you get too low of a resistor it will burn out. i would say look for 20w if they are made just for security. they will need a heatsink and you will have to monitor the heat temp for the first month to be safe. When i build mine thats the route i am going. Hopefully i will have my kit ordered by mid next month. Keep me posted if you get around to this before i do, if not i will do the same. Terry 96 Eagle talon ESI Greddy header - Greddy exhaust 97 Eclipse Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Apexi SAFC - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks Waiting to be installed: HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors) Mitchell on Demand copies available

I can test the resistor trick this week.
Just so you know... when I used the resistors for 450CC DSM injectors to work I used 2 x 20 Ohm 25 Watt resistors on each injector driver. This works out to 10 Ohm 50 Watts per injector driver. So that's about what you need to be safe. I would say at least 25W...

Do the math...

Watts = Amps x Volts
We know Volts = 13.4
And the Amps are about 2 I think for high impedenc injectors.
So Watts = 13.4 x 2 = 26.8W

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Megasquirt powered 420A
Custom turbo system

http://www.ms-custom.com

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Star Turbo Talon	Aug-17-04 03:30 PM
Member since Oct 21st 2003 8331 posts,

#285, "RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question"
In response to Reply # 12

Yes very true lee but the amperage is about 1.1~1.3 amp.....Ok ok so i am anal...lol but you are correct..good info

Terry

96 Eagle talon ESI
Greddy header - Greddy exhaust

97 Eclipse
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Apexi SAFC - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

Mitchell on Demand copies available

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BlueMoonEclipse	Aug-18-04 08:44 PM
Member since Sep 25th 2003 1352 posts,

#286, "RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question"
In response to Reply # 13

Hey MR slick do you have MS2 running? (spark control also) if so did you find a way to make MS2 generate spark using the CAS hall efect sensor (cam angle) or using some other sort of trigger?

vote for your choice of body style for Bluie!! http://www.cardomain.com/id/bluemooneclipse

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MrSlick	Aug-19-04 01:52 AM
Member since Jul 22nd 2002 1120 posts,

#287, "RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question"
In response to Reply # 14

Originally posted by BlueMoonEclipse
Hey MR slick do you have MS2 running? (spark control also) if so did you find a way to make MS2 generate spark using the CAS hall efect sensor (cam angle) or using some other sort of trigger?

Well MS2 is about 2-4 months away from actual release yet... so no I don't have that.
But here shortly I will have the Megasquirt 'N' Edis setup running... I believe that's the best way to go as far as ignition. The EDIS setup is pretty nice.
I just need to machine my crank trigger wheel and she'll be ready to go.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Megasquirt powered 420A
Custom turbo system

http://www.ms-custom.com

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Keith2172	Sep-13-04 05:01 AM
Member since Jan 16th 2004 1281 posts,

#288, "RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question"
In response to Reply # 15

Anyone try the resistors on the injector harness yet, I don't want to deal with CEL's but I'm about a month from actual install so I can't test myself. Also, Mr Slick, you wrote in another post:

" You need to modify the Megasquirt as follows for it to work with the 2GNT Tach circuit:

. Remove D5, D8, R10
. Remove jumper between XG1-XG2
. Fit wire between XG1 and right of D5 (non band)
. Fit wire between bottom of R10 and right of D9 (band)
. Fit 1.3k resistor in place D8 <1.3k-2k ok, function as above> "

is there anything else that needs to be changed ( C12, R32 ) and did you have to do any funny business with XG1 to X11 or anything like that?

Representing the Central Cali chapter of 2GNT!
(I think I'm the only member )

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MrSlick	Sep-13-04 07:02 AM
Member since Jul 22nd 2002 1120 posts,

#289, "RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question"
In response to Reply # 16

Originally posted by Keith2172
Anyone try the resistors on the injector harness yet, I don't want to deal with CEL's but I'm about a month from actual install so I can't test myself. Also, Mr Slick, you wrote in another post: " You need to modify the Megasquirt as follows for it to work with the 2GNT Tach circuit: . Remove D5, D8, R10 . Remove jumper between XG1-XG2 . Fit wire between XG1 and right of D5 (non band) . Fit wire between bottom of R10 and right of D9 (band) . Fit 1.3k resistor in place D8 <1.3k-2k ok, function as above> " is there anything else that needs to be changed ( C12, R32 ) and did you have to do any funny business with XG1 to X11 or anything like that?

Howdy,

Nothing else you have to do. Those changes assume a standard Megasquirt with just the XG1 to XG2 jumper in place, and with no "Dave Cap".

As far as the injectors.. I now have the stock injector harness with the stock injectors plugged into it with the injectors just in the air.
This causes no codes, drives fine, and gets normal timing...

If you wont want to do that then yes resistors should work. Just makes sure you have 50 watta on each on at least...

Any other questions?>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Megasquirt powered 420A
Custom turbo system

http://www.ms-custom.com

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Keith2172	Sep-13-04 12:50 PM
Member since Jan 16th 2004 1281 posts,

#290, "RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question"
In response to Reply # 17

Cool deal, I think I'll try the resistors for packaging issues (trying to get by visual on the smog inspection) Right now I'm fighting the stim cause I can't get a reading from either of the RPM pots while testing. I think I burned up the 555 unit and I know I had the 2222A transistor backwards so hopefully replacing those will fix. I may also replace U4 on the Squirt board but thats more piece of mind then a problem. I'll keep you updated.

Representing the Central Cali chapter of 2GNT!
(I think I'm the only member )

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MrSlick	Sep-13-04 05:11 PM
Member since Jul 22nd 2002 1120 posts,

#291, "RE: ATTN: MrSlick Megasquirt question"
In response to Reply # 18

Originally posted by Keith2172
Cool deal, I think I'll try the resistors for packaging issues (trying to get by visual on the smog inspection) Right now I'm fighting the stim cause I can't get a reading from either of the RPM pots while testing. I think I burned up the 555 unit and I know I had the 2222A transistor backwards so hopefully replacing those will fix. I may also replace U4 on the Squirt board but thats more piece of mind then a problem. I'll keep you updated.

I smoked my stim 3 times now... haha, it looks like frankensteins stim... heh.

Also, if you didn't have the XG1 - XG2 jumper or the 2gnt mods done then you wouldnt get an rpm reading...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Megasquirt powered 420A
Custom turbo system

http://www.ms-custom.com

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