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Subject: "Sigh... I need help guys. I felt so sick of it all of a sudden!"

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gilee_8	Aug-05-06 07:20 AM
Member since Jun 11th 2002 1441 posts,

#2353, "Sigh... I need help guys. I felt so sick of it all of a sudden!"
Aug-05-06 07:24 AM by gilee_8

Sup guys.
Since I started doing MS to my eclipse 1 month ago, many many problems come up from here and there. And I am getting very tired from things.

Now I don't know if my LC-1 WBo2 unit is dead or not, but I cannot get the analog output to work correctly with anything. Voltmeter, Digital AFR Gauge, or the MS. MS keep saying it's 0volt read, my gauge keep saying 0.250, and the volt meter is like.. somewhere constant. I programmed the LC-1, I reload the firmware, I recalibrate... nothing works. Only the Analog output is bad, the digital output is good, so I can only use my PC to view the AFR value.

Then the MS setup. I can start the eclipse, but it idle roughly, so I play around with the warmup wizard, and it warmup very smoothly now.
But somehow after it idle with CLT around 170-190F... then I try to move the car, it will die very ROUGHLY! and I will not be able to start the car afterward unless I wait over nite. ??? what's wrong?

I try to run the Autotune when idling, but it keep saying the value is outside the window.

So can someone shine me some light on this? I currenly hooked up the stock Narrow Band O2 to the MS. and use my PC to read the WBo2 signal. At idle, the WBo2 signal shift around from 13.x to 15.x value. so I should be at the right spot correct?

Any help will be great!
Thanks all!

EDIT: here is the two log I got this morning. I tried to start yesterday, then when I move it, I died. then I have to wait till today to able to start it again. Then I died again when I try to move it. so now I have to wait again. I try cranking it, but it won't fire, even with or without full throttle pressed!

http://www.geocities.com/gilee_8/eclipse/datalog200608051131.xls
http://www.geocities.com/gilee_8/eclipse/datalog200608051223.xls

~~~~~~~~Modification~~~~~~~~
Performance: MegaSquirt v3.0 Fuel & Spark, 8.6:1 JE piston, Eagle Long Rods, SPEC III Clutch, EVOIII B16G, FMIC, Aeromotive 1:1 FPR, Walbro 255HP, 680cc Injectors, 2.5" DP, 3" Magnaflow Cat, 3.5" Greddy EVO CatBack, Greddy Electronic EGT,FUEL,BOOST,A/F gauges...
Interior: Racing Seats, Metallic Interior, 15-Speakers System, Keyless, Dynomat Insulated, Neons...
Exterior: 1999 Body with turbo wing, Halo Projector Headlight, 4300K HID, 17" Mille Rims, GSX Calipers...
Coming Soon: Water Injection, Redo Undercarriage, Repaint Exterior

$240 For New Complete GSX Calipers Kit (Calipers, Bracket, Shim, Pad, Bolts, etc) Email Me If Interested!

1995 RED Eclipse GS-'T': Stage VI 20PSI
2010 Audi S5 Quattro

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RE: Sigh... I need help guys. I felt so sick of it all of a sudden!, Team

XtremeRS, Aug-05-06 11:40 AM, #1

Here is all my information now. (files and pic inside), gilee_8, Aug-05-06 06:53 PM, #2

RE: Sigh... I need help guys. I felt so sick of it all of a sudden!, Team

XtremeRS, Aug-06-06 04:22 AM, #3

RE: Sigh... I need help guys. I felt so sick of it all of a sudden!, gilee_8, Aug-06-06 04:30 AM, #4

RE: Sigh... I need help guys. I felt so sick of it all of a sudden!, gilee_8, Aug-06-06 05:07 AM, #5

RE: Sigh... I need help guys. I felt so sick of it all of a sudden!, Team

XtremeRS, Aug-06-06 05:23 AM, #6

RE: Sigh... I need help guys. I felt so sick of it all of a sudden!, gilee_8, Aug-06-06 08:24 AM, #7

RE: Sigh... I need help guys. I felt so sick of it all of a sudden!, gilee_8, Aug-06-06 11:33 AM, #8

RE: Sigh... I need help guys. I felt so sick of it all of a sudden!, Team

XtremeRS, Aug-06-06 03:47 PM, #9

RE: Sigh... I need help guys. I felt so sick of it all of a sudden!, gilee_8, Aug-06-06 06:20 PM, #10

RE: Sigh... I need help guys. I felt so sick of it all of a sudden!, Team

XtremeRS, Aug-07-06 03:27 AM, #11

RE: Sigh... I need help guys. I felt so sick of it all of a sudden!, gilee_8, Aug-07-06 04:45 AM, #12

XtremeRS	Aug-05-06 11:40 AM
Member since May 20th 2003 6329 posts,

#2354, "RE: Sigh... I need help guys. I felt so sick of it all of a sudden!"
In response to Reply # 0
Aug-05-06 11:42 AM by XtremeRS

post your .msq file that you are using,or email it to me, maybe I can take a look at it and see whats up with your settings. The autotune feature is set for certain perameters only, unless you manually configure it to what you want. Default is like 60kap to 90 kpa, and from 2000 rpm on up to 4000 rpm, or somewhere in those lines. So you need to be actually driving the car to use autoune, and it must be within those settings. Make sure you dont have your EGO settings in closed loop at idle at first, so you can tune in the idle A/F fairly good. If you send an msq file, be sure to let me know the specifics of your setup: fuel injector size, idle fuel pressure, running spark and fuel, and if you have low or high impeadance injectors.

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

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gilee_8	Aug-05-06 06:53 PM
Member since Jun 11th 2002 1441 posts,

#2357, "Here is all my information now. (files and pic inside)"
In response to Reply # 1
Aug-06-06 04:27 AM by gilee_8

Thanks Matt.
Here is the MT MSQ file & I exported the VE table also. (somehow I cannot send to your email at attbi.com, it keep failing)
http://www.geocities.com/gilee_8/eclipse/MainSetup.txt (Change .txt to .msq)
http://www.geocities.com/gilee_8/eclipse/VE_Table.txt (Change .txt to .vex)
(Sorry for the trouble, I cannot upload msq and vex file type)

***I just did some changes to the tuning this morning 8/6/06***
http://www.geocities.com/gilee_8/eclipse/MainSetupNew.txt (Change .txt to .msq)

My Setup Details are:
680cc fuel injector, Static Fuel Pressure is 34.8PSI, idling fuel Pressure (without vaccum plugged) is around 43.5PSI, I am running fuel only, and the injectors are Low Impedence. Using Narrow Band O2 sensor right now, and with a 2.5Bar MAP sensor right now. I have the MS v3.0 board with MS-I chip.

I also include two logs that I just ran after I waited 6 hrs today after running today at noon time. Remember I said, after the car died, I cannot start up the engine again. so I have to wait.

Tonite, I did some more tuning, and it runs better I believe. And things look pretty good, but somehow to me it seems like when the car is fully warmup, it kick into another mode, (like using the VE table or something) So as soon as the Coolant temp get over like 160 or 170F, the car seems to run like shit. so I just start going into the VE Table, and start change the highlighted number to make the car stay running. So it is kinda rough at idle after warmup. Then after I shut it off, it own't start up again.

And from the log, I see the coolant temp goes to like 200F after engine is sat there for about 15 mins after it's off (after full warm up)
So I am thinking, does the coolant temp has to do with the problem not able to restart? like the amount of fuel injected?

I included the two logs, one is during the Running time after warmup, it shows how rough RPM is, then I try to change the values in the VE table to make it stable again.
http://www.geocities.com/gilee_8/eclipse/Running_After_Warmup.xls

The other log is after I turn off the engine and try to restart it again after 3-5 mins, and I crank it a few times, but with no luck!
http://www.geocities.com/gilee_8/eclipse/Will_Not_Start.xls

Thanks again Matt. Let me know what you think of my setting.
I greatly appreicated your help.
Gilbert

P.S. I read from other post, and from what you mentioned before, that I should make the EGO (O2 sensor) not in closed loop right?
So where can I set it to not closed loop? I looked through all the options in MT but I don't see where I can change it to open loop.
The only option that I believe it can do so is the EGO option under Basic setting, do I just set the active RPM to like 6000 or something very high, so the EGO will not do any fuel correction until I hit 6000RPM, so it is kinda like turned off? Thanks again.

*** 8/6/06 Update ***
I just went out to do some changes all over my MegaTune, and I got a long log, but I cut and paste a part I believe it's important.
To me, it seems like once the Coolant Temp get to 180+F, the O2 sensor signal or the AFR get really rich.. like 0.9 for 30 second. The rest of the log for about 650sec, the O2 signal stay to bounce around (NBo2) but once 180+F, it stay constant at 0.9 and up to 1.xx, then the car choked and die after 30 second.

Here is the entire Log if you want to take a look:
http://www.geocities.com/gilee_8/eclipse/Die_After_180F.xls (right click and save as)

Take a look at the log. This is what I suspect maybe some setting I have is wrong, so once the Coolant temp get to a certain temperature, the AFR get all messed up?? car ran idling for over 10 mins.

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XtremeRS	Aug-06-06 04:22 AM
Member since May 20th 2003 6329 posts,

#2358, "RE: Sigh... I need help guys. I felt so sick of it all of a sudden!"
In response to Reply # 2

I cant get the links to show right in MT..email the msq to: eclipsed4evr@comcast.net Yes, the exhaust settings for rpm, is what you want to do to not have closed loop idle. Set it to like 1300 rpm. Since you have low Impeadance injectors, are you using a flyback board, or injector resisitors, or just the PWM feature in the software? This is very important to know..

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gilee_8	Aug-06-06 04:30 AM
Member since Jun 11th 2002 1441 posts,

#2359, "RE: Sigh... I need help guys. I felt so sick of it all of a sudden!"
In response to Reply # 3

I am sending to your email now.

I am using everything the stock MS v3.0 has.

I am using the flyback board, no resistor, and since I use the flyback board, I set the PWM to 30% for now.

you should get the email in 5 mins.
Thanks alot!

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gilee_8	Aug-06-06 05:07 AM
Member since Jun 11th 2002 1441 posts,

#2360, "RE: Sigh... I need help guys. I felt so sick of it all of a sudden!"
In response to Reply # 4

Sup,
I just got the car running again.
And I believe it was FLOODED with gas, not because of coolant temperatue.
I am more certain now because after it's dead, I unplug the injectors and sparks, and just crank it 10 seconds, then I try to start the engine again, it comes right up!

so what's up???

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XtremeRS	Aug-06-06 05:23 AM
Member since May 20th 2003 6329 posts,

#2361, "RE: Sigh... I need help guys. I felt so sick of it all of a sudden!"
In response to Reply # 5

email just sent, with updated .msq file, load it up and see what happens

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gilee_8	Aug-06-06 08:24 AM
Member since Jun 11th 2002 1441 posts,

#2362, "RE: Sigh... I need help guys. I felt so sick of it all of a sudden!"
In response to Reply # 6

Thanks alot Matt.

Before I run your update, or right after I sent you the email a few hrs ago, used my Newer tuned MSQ file, and I got car started and run pretty good.

I was able to drive the car around, and I drove about 20 miles. it runs ok, and I tried autotune as well. I haven't try Boost yet.

But one bad thing is, (what I kinda mentioned before) sometime when I am idling, it will idle great, but randomly at idling, after like 5 mins or so, it will go extremely rich and the car will get flooded and died.

One horrible thing is I stopped at a light when I am heading back home, and the car just shutted off. Damn man.. so embrassing, and worst is, a cop car stopped behind me, lucky I crank the engine with no fuel and spark, and cleared the flood in time (before the cop come over) lol.

So that's my problem right now. I feel so scared to idle the car right now!

But anyhow, I will try out your MSQ right now.
Thanks alot!

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gilee_8	Aug-06-06 11:33 AM
Member since Jun 11th 2002 1441 posts,

#2363, "RE: Sigh... I need help guys. I felt so sick of it all of a sudden!"
In response to Reply # 6
Aug-06-06 11:38 AM by gilee_8

sup matt
i tried out your msq... but somehow the engine wont fireup after i load your msq. it flooded the engine right away after i try to crank, so it wont even try to fire up...just crank!

i load back my backup msq then i unplug the injs and crank to clear out the flooded fuel then it start right rigt. but again...with my msq...the engine will just die sometimes when i leave the engne running at idle for too long (around 3 mins)

i read through your msg and i kinda embedded some of the setting you had in your msq to my msq for the ones i am not sure what they do....so i just trust you on those values matt =)

i will try the embedded msq againtonite..but i have to go out now.so i cannot try it out now. i let you know how it turns out.

i do have a question thou...about the wheel decoder..i didnt pick the 420A/neon one but how come i stll get the rpm signal?
also the hardware mod you talking about you mean the changes in this link for the input mod? (first part?)
http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/setup-neon.html

thanks
gilbert

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XtremeRS	Aug-06-06 03:47 PM
Member since May 20th 2003 6329 posts,

#2366, "RE: Sigh... I need help guys. I felt so sick of it all of a sudden!"
In response to Reply # 8
Aug-06-06 03:49 PM by XtremeRS

Yes, the hardware mods on that link.. Those mods need to be done in order to use the stock crank sensor as rpm/trigger input to the MS. If those mods were not done, then you would have to use the tach wire on the stock ecu to get rpm/trigger input to the MS. This is fine for running fuel only. To run spark, you would have to do those board mods, and use the crank sensor wire. If those mods were NOT done, then that is why its not running with the msq i sent you..Other than that, it should at least start and run..maybe not the greatest, but at least run..Did you do those board mods then? If so, then you need to put in on the decoder setttings, 420a decoder,and the rest of the options, are off-no settings. Msns setting would be fine if you did NOT do the board mods, and are using the stock TACH wire as input.

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gilee_8	Aug-06-06 06:20 PM
Member since Jun 11th 2002 1441 posts,

#2372, "RE: Sigh... I need help guys. I felt so sick of it all of a sudden!"
In response to Reply # 9

Hi Matt.
I connected the wire from the Crank position Sensor (the blue/white wire) and I connected that to the TACH pin in the relayboard.
But after playing around with it a few times tihs evening, whenever I have the Decoder turned on to the 420A/Neon, the car will not start up (when I crank, the MT's RPM gauge doesn't move) only if I turn it off, then the car start right up. and also during cranking, the RPM gauge moves.

I did that INPUT MOD. could there be something I missed other then just those mod?

BTW, I ONLY did the INPUT MOD section.

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XtremeRS	Aug-07-06 03:27 AM
Member since May 20th 2003 6329 posts,

#2375, "RE: Sigh... I need help guys. I felt so sick of it all of a sudden!"
In response to Reply # 10
Aug-07-06 03:30 AM by XtremeRS

Hmm well that means something isnt right somewhere then..Its prob why its running sooo rich as well. Go over your board and see if everything is installed correctly.The V3 board takes diff mods then the 2.2, so be sure you did the mods for v3 only, and double check the optoisolator and see if its sitting on the board in the correct orientation as well. It should run perfectly when its on the 420a decoder..

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gilee_8	Aug-07-06 04:45 AM
Member since Jun 11th 2002 1441 posts,

#2376, "RE: Sigh... I need help guys. I felt so sick of it all of a sudden!"
In response to Reply # 11

I will take a look today.

It's funny, or is this how it works?
If I have the 420A/Neon Decoder on, the engine will not start.
but if I turn it off, the engine will start right up.
But if I got the engine running, then turn on the 420A/Neon Decoder on, and burn it to ECU, the engine still run fine, and RPM till show the correct value.

Should that be true?

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