97 Related mods: AFX ECU, crower 2's, ported head.

Well about a week ago the car decided to barely want to start...cranked for awhile and then finally started up. I drove home and parked it for the night. The following day when I woke up to get ready to work the car would not start. It would just keep cranking and cranking.

I did notice however that the fuel pump was not priming when the key was turned to the 'ON' position. No hum/buzz sound whatsoever. Everything else in the car works fine. I checked for power at the pump, and was getting around 12v for about a second when I would turn the key to 'ON'. I checked the test port at the fuel rail and there was no pressure in the rail.

My conclusion at this point was that I had a fuel pump failure, so I picked up a Walbro 255lph since I was planning to turbo the car in the future. I installed that today and everything went smoothly...went to turn the key to 'ON' and once again no priming sound of the pump, no pressure at the fuel rail, and I'm still getting a 12v reading back at the fuel pump.

I'm really stumped on wtf is wrong. I assume all thats left is to check ASD relay, other than that a possibly bad ECU...which I really hope not, because its an AFX ECU. I've never had to check or replace the ASD relay...can someone enlighten me on that matter please? Also any other thoughts or opinion are welcomed. Thanks.

http://www.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=1030

I take it this will solve my answer. Thank you search function.



http://www.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=1030

Well I think I've found the culprit finally. It's looking like a faulty ignition key switch. After diagnosing everything related electrically to the fuel pump and relays; everything checking out okay, I decided to mess with the key turning it on and off for a bit.

To my surprise after several attempts the pump kicked on and the car started perfect and ran perfect! However, if you bumped the key from the position it was able to start from, the car would eventually lose fuel pressure and die.

The only thing I can think of it being is a loose wire/connection somewhere inside the steering column thats related with the ignition key switch. Has anyone else ever had this problem or atleast heard of it before? I've never had to take this area of the car apart before, and it would be great if I could get some advice and or some direction.

http://www.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=1030

Not one single person has a suggestion or atleast some kind of info to input?

http://www.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=1030

Sounds liek a bad ignition. There isnt much as far as connections that can fail at the column. you can clean the plug that connects to the ignition switch but that prolly isnt it. Ignition switched failing is common with older vehicles. Ther switch can only take so much twisting.

The relays are on the way Cas, keep them for spares.

Terry

Thanks Terry I appreciate the response. I've got the column apart right now but, I'm having trouble being able to reach in anywhere to take the ignition switch out. The screws that hold it I can't reach to without taking the steering wheel off, so I think thats my next step...and to also start looking for a ignition switch to buy. Man I hope I don't get raped on one of those.

http://www.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=1030

Well, I tried a new ignition switch and the pump is still not kicking on, no prime, no fuel pressure. Car cranks and cranks.

I jumper'd the fuel pump relay to the battery and the pump kicks on and runs perfect. So I suspect it is not relay. Also the power wire (black/blue stripe) that leads to the connection of the fuel is getting a steady voltage.

I've checked various grounds on the ECU and have an established ground. This is a 97 AF/X ECU, and I'm really hoping its not a bad ECU, however I do not have a spare 97 ECU to swap out and check.

Other than this, I'm stumbled. I was looking forward to driving it up to the Chicago 2GNT meet next weekend, but at this point it's looking like its not gonna make it. HELP!

http://www.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=1030

Just for the hell of it, replace the relay..i've seen relays go bad and show voltage, but there isnt enough current potential to drive the pump. Verify the ground at the fuel pump connector as well. When you "jumped" the relay and it worked, how did you jump it? Did you go arouund the relay, or did you turn on the relay by suppling ground to the relay coil? I would also verify the ground signal to the fuel pump relay that comes from the ECU. Remember, when you turn the key to on, the ground signal from the ECU only lasts a few seconds to prime the pump, then it shuts down.

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

Here are your wire colors and functions for the fuel pump relay:

black/white- switched ignition power 12volts(hot in start and run)
white/red- ground signal from ECU to turn on relay

These 2 wires, the black/white and white/red are the relay wires that turn the relay on and off.

red/black - this is the 12volt power feed input to the relay
black/blue - this is the power output wire to the fuel pump

The red/black and the black/blue are electrially connected together within the relay when the relay is switched on.

So now, you need to test the relay SOCKET with the relay unplugged.

Turn the key to ON, and put the meters ground on the battery, and the positive lead on the black/white wire. You should get 12 volts.

Also with the key on, meter ground on the battery ground, put the pos meter lead on the red/black wire. You should see 12 volts.

Now put the pos meter lead on battery positive, and the meter ground lead on the white/red. You should see 12 volts when the key is on for approx 2 seconds from key off, to key on, and also during "crank".

The black wire at the fuel pump harness, is the ground wire, and is grounded to the body. Put the meters pos lead on the battery pos, and the meters ground lead on the black wire at the fuel pump harness. You should see 12 volts all the time, regardless of key position.

Hopefully this helps a bit..

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

Just get some spare wire somewhere, and connect that to the battery, then run the wire to the backseat where your meter is and connect that wire to the meter lead..

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

Cas, thats the same thing i walked through earlier. Good luck but it looks like the ECU is not outputting a neg signal to the relay.

Terry

Sounds like Matt mixed up the black/blue and black/red, or you did or your car is backwards, who knows.

I know these two wires are fine MAtt because when he jumpers the relay out with a jumper wire to power up the pump, the car will run fine.

the white/red is the problem, 5v really isnt possible unless the wire is shorted. Can you locate that wire at the ECU plug? Test for ground signal there.

If the wire tests fine at the ECU then you have a bad wire. If your not getting any ground signal at the ECU plug then there is a problem in the ECU.

Terry

When i say ground signal i mean a GROUND. The Relay needs ground on the white/red to make the relay switch. The ECU always used ground when possible instead of Positive voltage. So with that being said the ECU connected the white/red wire to ground internally so the relay gets the ground it needs to switchover.

Jumper it and bring it to the meet

Edit: What year is your car? 97 right?

Edit: When you say you traced it back, you exposed the wire from the harness correct? every inch of it? If you didnt, the wire could be shorted to another wire and that would cause the 12v on that wire. The ECU wouldnt expect any difference because it sees 12v from the relay.



Terry

Ok then lets go with this plan.

At the ECU, cut the white/red wire about 6inches from the ECU plug. Test again for a ground when the key is turned on. You are testing the wire that goes to the ECU.

Test for ground: Pos lead of meter on battery pos post and neg lead of meter on white/red wire.

***IF that tests good, the ECU is fine. The wire must be shorted to a 12v positive wire. IF you still dont get a ground on that wire then the ecu is shorted internally....proceed.....

Next take the pos lead of the meter and place it on the white/red wire going to the Relay and place the black lead of the meter on the battery. With the relay removed, you should NOT see voltage. If you see voltage then just stop and post/call me.

If no voltage then proceed....


Temp Fix that is safe: Take the white/red wire that goes to the relay and splice in some wire and run it into the console someplace to a switch. take the other lead of the switch and ground it. When you turn the switch on the pump will run continuous. This is safe as long as your connections are good and taped up.


***Now go back, if the ECU tested fine above for a ground signal, then run a wire from the ECU to the relay and cut the white/red in between the two (it could be shorted).

I should be free tonight give me a ring.

Terry

yeah sounds like the ECU isnt suppling the ground on the white/red. The red/black is the power feed to the relay, coming from the fuse in the underhood fusebox..

I dont think i've heard of this issue before, but anything is possible. Its just a low current transistorized output inside the ECU to supply ground to the relay. Its possible too, that the white/red may have somehow got shorted to positive voltage, who knows. At least you've got it pinpointed now.

13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!)
S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
fuel injection)
My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net
-1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy"
-1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD)
-2000 Honda CR-V(daily)

Well turns out I screwed up and blew a the engine motor 30amp fuse in the fuse box (first fuse top left corner). I replaced the fuse, and jumper'd the relay (THE CORRECT WAY THIS TIME) and the pump kicks on.

Looks like all I gotta do now is wire that switch in as a temporary fix until I make it to the meet next weekend.

Thanks guys for taking your time to help.



http://www.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=1030

wow lol...I need that kinda help with all my wires but for a 95

-Xavier-
95 Eclipse RS-T...lost in the frozen tundra

Me too. Anybody? Say I have the same situation. What relay slots would I jumper?

CRAP! I'm a year late.

Oh well. Anybody know what wire I'd ground out on the fuel pump relay or the ASD relay? And I could just use a T-Tap to do this, right? T-tap into the wire and ground it, just to see if that's right.

*edited to get my subscribe on*

**************************************
1995 Eclipse GS - bone stock
2000 Camaro SS - heads/cam/bottle

Come on, you guys. Some of you guys know more than I could ever dream of knowing. Help us out on this.

**************************************
1995 Eclipse GS - bone stock
2000 Camaro SS - heads/cam/bottle

If you guys are having a no start condition due to the ECU not triggering the ASD relay, and your connections are good, a faulty crank angle (position) sensor or cam position sensor is probably the culprit, as the ECU requires a valid crank and cam signal to trigger the ASD relay and of course run the car (so shorting the ASD circuit won't help in this situation).

Joel Baldridge, ASE Certified Master Technician, Audi Certified Expert Technician

Checked mine today. Not the relay. I noticed no fuel pump noise. So I unplugged then plugged in the fuel pump, and all was well. Odd.

**************************************
1995 Eclipse GS - bone stock
2000 Camaro SS - heads/cam/bottle

Checked mine two days ago, i'm getting fuel and spark. checked the ASD and MFI relays both read like 77 ohms.

wow, same problem here, for a 95'.

Bad news...this came back to haunt me again today. Car is dead again and stuck at my work. Ran the following tests, but have one question on one of these tests, read the third test below about the white/red stripe wire that sends ground signal

I contributed to the Wiki.

For the record, my problem ended up being that the wiring plug on the fuel pump was making a bad connection on the top side of the bulkhead. I just popped off the access panel, bent the prongs slightly so they make more contact, and plugged back in. Fixed it! You could always try that. It's free and fast.

**************************************
1995 Eclipse GS - bone stock
2000 Camaro SS - heads/cam/bottle

I contributed to the Wiki.

Ground the white / red stripe wire. Did the fuel pump kick on?

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

ok Cas if the relays are clicking over and all the results you just posted are correct, then go to the pump and check for power. 2 wires at the pump one is ground the other is 12v. use your test light. Make sure you put the negative lead of the meter/test light on the chassis ground when you test for 12v pos. If you have 12v then take the negative lead and touch it to the ground wire at the plug to the fuel pump.
(Keep in mind the pump only gets power for 2 secs when turned on so Maria will need to keep turning off the car for 10 secs as you change probes around. If you have power at the pump then you have a bad pump. I have many i can ship you.

IF NO VOLTS AT PUMP:

Go bck to the relay and make sure with the relay removed and key on that 2 of the 5 pins in the relay harness plug have 12v. 2 of them must have 12v constant. If not then you have no power to the relay. Start checking fuseable links

IF POWER EXISTS TO THE RELAY:

re-install the relay. Next lets test the output wire of the relay. thats the wire that supplys 12v to the pump. with the relay installed and key first turned on you should get 12 v on the black/blue trace wire. if you get power in that wire then you should have power at the pump or you have a broken wire.

I contributed to the Wiki.

I went back the next day and tested for power at the pump again, and this time I was NOT getting any reading whatsoever. I went back to the battery and checked my in-line fuse wire that sends 12v to the pump (FP re-wire mod) and one of the prongs on the fuse was melted and it's contact corroded and burnt up pretty bad. I cleaned up the contact points and put a new fuse in and boom I was getting 11.7v or so at the fuel pump connector.

However, the pump is still not turning on. All relays click over, if I can hear the one in the back by the pump clicking over I know it's not a problem with the relay in the engine bay. If the hot wire (black/blue stripe) is getting 12v for 2 seconds with key ON, I know there is not a break in the wire. It HAS to be a pump failure now. When I replace the pump if it doesn't work after that, I'm gonna be completely stumped.

I contributed to the Wiki.

This one is complete. Put the stock fuel pump and sure enough kicked right on started up first try. The Walbro was dead.

In the future, if anyone has a problem with fuel pump not running, or not hearing it turn on, or having a relay issue, etc...they shouldn't have a problem diagnosing the issue. There is plenty of information in this one.

I contributed to the Wiki.