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Subject: "weird idle after topend rebuild" Previous topic | Next topic
hs_elrodDec-26-05 11:55 AM
Member since Aug 26th 2004
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#95242, "weird idle after topend rebuild"




          

Sup all,

I just finished putting it back together after having mild port work done to the exhaust and a multi angle valve job using the stock springs, stems, ect (<--- was that a mistake?)( it was resurfaced too)

i have had ignition coil pimary a/b circuit Pcodes off and on. and the coil pack did fail a resistance test as per Haynes spec. But that cell went away and stayed gone.... ? (new one is on order)

i also have the engine coolant temp sensor voltage too high code. (i'll be picking up a new one of those tomorrow)

the car idles fine for about 30 seconds then begins to shutter slightly (violently when cold) if I rev it up it is smooth as glass all the way up to redline and then revs down just as smooth. returning to a shuttering idle.

i have moisture out the tailpipe and im pretty sure it's water.

my comp numbers (after idling for about 10 minutes) were:

175 180 179 195

TIA for any help you can offer.

I'm a novice listen to what I say and make your own conclusion.

  

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Replies to this topic
RE: weird idle after topend rebuild, eclipse982nrRST, Dec-26-05 01:25 PM, #1
RE: weird idle after topend rebuild, freddy_00_69, Dec-26-05 02:11 PM, #2
      RE: weird idle after topend rebuild, eclipse982nrRST, Dec-26-05 02:50 PM, #3
           RE: weird idle after topend rebuild, hs_elrod, Dec-26-05 02:59 PM, #4
                RE: weird idle after topend rebuild, TeamDR1665, Dec-26-05 04:41 PM, #5
                     RE: weird idle after topend rebuild, hs_elrod, Dec-26-05 05:02 PM, #6
                     RE: weird idle after topend rebuild, djtrickee, Dec-27-05 05:11 AM, #7
                     RE: weird idle after topend rebuild, bloodyangel1, Dec-27-05 12:30 PM, #8
                          RE: weird idle after topend rebuild, TeamDR1665, Dec-27-05 03:57 PM, #9
                               RE: weird idle after topend rebuild, bloodyangel1, Dec-27-05 05:44 PM, #10
                                    RE: weird idle after topend rebuild, TeamDR1665, Dec-28-05 04:38 AM, #11
                                         RE: weird idle after topend rebuild, bloodyangel1, Dec-28-05 05:16 AM, #12
                                              RE: weird idle after topend rebuild(I retimed it), hs_elrod, Jan-10-06 03:07 AM, #13
                                                   RE: weird idle after topend rebuild(I retimed it), ForceFed420a, Jan-10-06 03:21 AM, #14
                                                        RE: weird idle after topend rebuild(I retimed it), hs_elrod, Jan-10-06 03:59 AM, #15

eclipse982nrRSTDec-26-05 01:25 PM
Member since Mar 16th 2004
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#95243, "RE: weird idle after topend rebuild"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I GURANTEE its one of these following.

1. CTS (Coolant temp sensor)

or

2. Re-check your timing

or

3. Vac leak.


I would go in that order as a CTS is only $12.

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

  

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freddy_00_69Dec-26-05 02:11 PM
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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#95244, "RE: weird idle after topend rebuild"
In response to Reply # 1




          

Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST
I GURANTEE its one of these following. 1. CTS (Coolant temp sensor) or 2. Re-check your timing or 3. Vac leak. I would go in that order as a CTS is only $12.



I think number 2, i have had idle problems that were caused by being off a tooth or so on timing. Just my $.02.


99 RS-T
"New bottom end(8.6:1 w/long rods)"
Turbonetics 60-1/Portfueler/etc!!!!!

  

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eclipse982nrRSTDec-26-05 02:50 PM
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#95245, "RE: weird idle after topend rebuild"
In response to Reply # 2


          

Originally posted by freddy_00_69
Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST I GURANTEE its one of these following. 1. CTS (Coolant temp sensor) or 2. Re-check your timing or 3. Vac leak. I would go in that order as a CTS is only $12.
I think number 2, i have had idle problems that were caused by being off a tooth or so on timing. Just my $.02.


I really head towards the CTS, However, the timing could be off just a half tooth like you said and be just a pussy hair loopy.

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

  

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hs_elrodDec-26-05 02:59 PM
Member since Aug 26th 2004
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#95247, "RE: weird idle after topend rebuild"
In response to Reply # 3
Dec-26-05 02:59 PM by hs_elrod



          

Mike I know your no idiot but "garantee" ??

CTS is def the next step. and food for thought i haven't pulled timing tensioner pin yet....

edit: I cant spell

I'm a novice listen to what I say and make your own conclusion.

  

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TeamDR1665Dec-26-05 04:41 PM
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#95251, "RE: weird idle after topend rebuild"
In response to Reply # 4


          

Originally posted by hs_elrod
i haven't pulled timing tensioner pin yet....

What?

What the hell is wrong with you? You actually tried running the engine without pulling that pin out of the tensioner? How is it supposed to apply tension to the belt with the locking pin in place? Holy shit.

Forget the CTS. Your timing is wrong. I don't care how good it looked or that the car ran, you did not complete the proceedure, therefore the belt will not maintain proper timing unless it has the right tension on it. Considery yourself lucky you didn't just pull a bloodyangel on your newly built head and fuck it all up the day you installed it.

REDO YOUR TIMING. JESUS.

  

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hs_elrodDec-26-05 05:02 PM
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#95254, "RE: weird idle after topend rebuild"
In response to Reply # 5




          

Originally posted by DR1665
Originally posted by hs_elrod i haven't pulled timing tensioner pin yet....
What? REDO YOUR TIMING. JESUS.


Thanks will do!


I'm a novice listen to what I say and make your own conclusion.

  

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djtrickeeDec-27-05 05:11 AM
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#95273, "RE: weird idle after topend rebuild"
In response to Reply # 5




          

Originally posted by DR1665
JESUS.


X2

.........................................................................................................................

Built. That's All...
.........................................................................................................................
www.monkeybuttpirate.com
.........................................................................................................................
2 Fingers of Scotch with a milk back... Stat!

  

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bloodyangel1Dec-27-05 12:30 PM
Member since Aug 02nd 2005
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#95285, "RE: weird idle after topend rebuild"
In response to Reply # 5


          

Originally posted by DR1665
What? Considery yourself lucky you didn't just pull a bloodyangel on your newly built head and fuck it all up the day you installed it. REDO YOUR TIMING. JESUS.


haha driggs, your so funny, but i actually think i got the thing running close to perfect now, i was driving it today, i actually had it running over the weekend, b4 x-mas like you said, and when i hit 5k rpms, man did she take off, you werent kidding -lol- but i think i did the same thing as him, i cant exactly remember if i took the nail out of the tensioner or not, ill have to check when im not to lazy, at least he got a better chance of surviving with the pin in, than only having one bolt holding it on

  

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TeamDR1665Dec-27-05 03:57 PM
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#95287, "RE: weird idle after topend rebuild"
In response to Reply # 8


          

Originally posted by bloodyangel1
haha driggs, your so funny,

I know.

Originally posted by bloodyangel1
i actually think i got the thing running close to perfect now, i was driving it today, i actually had it running over the weekend, b4 x-mas like you said, and when i hit 5k rpms, man did she take off, you werent kidding -lol-

Told you so. Good shit, right there. Glad to hear it.

Originally posted by bloodyangel1
but i think i did the same thing as him, i cant exactly remember if i took the nail out of the tensioner or not, ill have to check when im not to lazy, at least he got a better chance of surviving with the pin in, than only having one bolt holding it on

You see, that's the thing. He got damn lucky. You know, ther are some people who refer to that "nail" as a "grenade pin." Know why? Because, if you don't pull it out, the grenade is a dud, only, in this case, duds blow up. If you aren't sure if you pulled that pin out, every time you turn that key until you know for sure is a SEVERE risk to your engine.

You thought you caught hell before. Blow that shit up again because you left the tensioner pin in place and watch the fucking sky fall.

Seriously. Check that shit before you drive the car anywhere, man.




  

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bloodyangel1Dec-27-05 05:44 PM
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#95290, "RE: weird idle after topend rebuild"
In response to Reply # 9
Dec-27-05 06:25 PM by bloodyangel1

          

i will, hopefully i can check it without taking the whole left side of the engine off. the only real problem now is, when i start it up, it starts funny, cranks slow (battery was dead), then turns over, but i dunno, its hard to explain, it just doesnt start like it normally does, like it kinda sounds like someone farting or some shit, ugh, u would just have to hear it, but other than that, it idles pretty good, and ideas? think timing might be off a tad bit?

edit; oh, btw, isnt it said that if the pin is able to be pulled out, and put right back in, then that is where the tension should be, becuz thats how it was for me, so even if the nail is still in there, wouldnt tension still be the same as if it was out?

  

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TeamDR1665Dec-28-05 04:38 AM
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#95291, "RE: weird idle after topend rebuild"
In response to Reply # 10


          

Originally posted by bloodyangel1
i will, hopefully i can check it without taking the whole left side of the engine off.

Not thinking so unless you left the cover off. emoji

Originally posted by bloodyangel1
the only real problem now is, when i start it up, it starts funny, cranks slow (battery was dead), then turns over, but i dunno, its hard to explain, it just doesnt start like it normally does, like it kinda sounds like someone farting or some shit, ugh, u would just have to hear it, but other than that, it idles pretty good, and ideas? think timing might be off a tad bit?

That sounds like timing being off to me. I redid my timing several times with the same results (almost sounded like a piece of shit Harley-Davidson) until we figured out that the tensioner wasn't working properly (old and tired, looked like it worked, but did not maintain proper tension) and I lost a couple teeth.

Lose a little timing (1/2 tooth or so) - rough idle. Drives "fine."
Lose a little more timing - no idle. Valves begin to open at the same time, no compression = no go.
Lose too much timing - valves are open when they should not. Pistons high-five them. Time to order new valves. (If this happens at speed, try to coast into the nearest Honda dealership.)

Originally posted by bloodyangel1
btw, isnt it said that if the pin is able to be pulled out, and put right back in, then that is where the tension should be, becuz thats how it was for me, so even if the nail is still in there, wouldnt tension still be the same as if it was out?

That situation assumes a new belt. As time goes by, the belt can stretch a bit. Also, due to variations in throttle/engine speed, the belt can want to jerk along on the gears (think: downshifting, dumping clutch). When this happens, the tensioner takes up the slack in the belt to maintain proper tension and alignment of the cams and crank.

If you don't take the pin out of the tensioner, then wind the engine out like that a couple times, maybe downshift, or even just shut the engine off at the "right" time, the belt can hiccup or whatever, and then you've lost a couple teeth.

Hate to say it, but it's going to get worse if that pin is still in there...

  

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bloodyangel1Dec-28-05 05:16 AM
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#95293, "RE: weird idle after topend rebuild"
In response to Reply # 11


          

actually its fine now, is still cranks slow, but starts up good, and i was thinkin i might be able to take off the 2 bolts on the lower t-cover and slide my hand or some pliers and pull the pin out, that way i wont have to rent that damned crank puller for the 20th time, and have to redo the belts again. it idles pretty good, but if it gets lower than 900-1000, its starts to shake a little bit, guess ill turn it up a notch to fix that

  

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hs_elrodJan-10-06 03:07 AM
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#95625, "RE: weird idle after topend rebuild(I retimed it)"
In response to Reply # 12




          

Well i retimed it and it idles alot better. (but not perfect) I'm still throwing the "engine coolant temp sensor" code so a new one of those is coming tonight.

The car idles fairly rough (seems to smooth out a little as it warms up). Between 1500 and 2500 rpms it is almost lopey and the car shakes. once I pass 3k it smooths out and sounds better than ever.

the only things outside of stock at this point are udp, ported exhaust and an oversized bolt in the front motor mount.

I ran it hard then checked timing again it looked good.

Any input would be appreciated.




I'm a novice listen to what I say and make your own conclusion.

  

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ForceFed420aJan-10-06 03:21 AM
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#95626, "RE: weird idle after topend rebuild(I retimed it)"
In response to Reply # 13


          

Originally posted by hs_elrod
Well i retimed it and it idles alot better. (but not perfect) I'm still throwing the "engine coolant temp sensor" code so a new one of those is coming tonight. The car idles fairly rough (seems to smooth out a little as it warms up). Between 1500 and 2500 rpms it is almost lopey and the car shakes. once I pass 3k it smooths out and sounds better than ever. the only things outside of stock at this point are udp, ported exhaust and an oversized bolt in the front motor mount. I ran it hard then checked timing again it looked good. Any input would be appreciated. I'm a novice listen to what I say and make your own conclusion.



Throw the new CTS in. I'm sure it'll smooth right out.

When the CTS takes a dump, the ECU throws lots of fuel to protect itself. Above 3K, the engine is inhaling enough air to suffice for the extra fuel, but below it gets overwhelmed.

I'm guessing that's what's happening.

I'm also assuming you took the pin out of the tensioner this time?

Brian

Red 97 Eclipse GS (420a) MTX
Custom Garrett T3 Turbo system
Megasquirt w/52 lb/hr injectors & a Walbro 255
Kicker/Alpine Audio (3 amps, 2 subs)
90 Cav 2.2 TBI auto (winter) <- yeah, it's fast

  

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hs_elrodJan-10-06 03:59 AM
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#95631, "RE: weird idle after topend rebuild(I retimed it)"
In response to Reply # 14




          

Originally posted by ForceFed420a
I'm also assuming you took the pin out of the tensioner this time? Brian


Yeah. I did. Thanks for the quick response. I was really hoping someone say "just replace the CTS you'll be fine" But now after having retimed it and also getting partially flamed I have reached that point. Wooh!

I'm a novice listen to what I say and make your own conclusion.

  

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