my buddy ratfinkle had posted something about my car on this site- heard you guys wanted me to sign on- finally had a chance to do so.
well folks here's the rundown of what i have installed so far-

engine-
block bored 20 thousanths over honed and o-ringed
copper head gasket with copper coat sealant
crank resurfaced maged and polished
eagle h-beam rods
wiseco 12:1 xt pistons with rings and wristpins
clevite 77 main and rod bearings
arp rod bolts
arp head studs

head-
milled 30 thousanths
originally designed for turbo setup- big port and polish on intake- moderate porting/polishing done on exhaust side due to water jackets-
radius cut valve job-
titanium keepers-
2.4L cams
aem tru time cam gears

intake-
intake plenum-bored 60mm ported and polished
throttlebody-modern performance 60mm billet
ice man intake w/ k&n filter

fuel-
rochester 50lbs fuel injectors
fabricated fuel returnline using aeroquip fitings and push fit hose
aem fuel pressure regulator w/ b&m fuel pressure gauge
walbro 255lph high pressure intank fuel pump
apexi safc2 fuel management

ignition-
msd dis-2 ignition system
msd tach fuel adaptor

exhaust-
piece of shit -fit like shit- worth crap- pace setter header- will be swapped for greddy header soon
custom 2 1/2" exhaust with resonator, flex pipe, and twin 3a racing mufflers

suspension-
front and rear z-speed strut tower braces
front and rear suspension techniques swaybars
sprint 1 3/4" drop springs--
soon to be upgraded with one of the following
jicmajic coilover suspension kit
tein flex type
or koni yellows with ground control coilovers
also need to get energy suspension master bushing set

cooling-
180 degree thermostat
just ordered a c&r alumium radiator w/ spal lightweigt highflow fan--must have cause i have been overheating at idle-

exterior- valspar 2002 pt cruiser silver with house of kolor graphics including candy oriental blue- valspar white- spies hecker purple that we mixed up- 2002 lexus is 300 charcol - and chartruse(not sure on spelling) pinstriping
erebuni shogun body kit- sideskirts have been molded in, scoops cut out so they look like scoops, all molded in
shaved handles and antena
i fabricated my own rear sideskirts and rear under spoiler all molded
factory wing

lighting-
rear clears with neon in center- so lights up red the whole way across- clear bumper corners- i took ambers out of headlights so they are clear- nokya hyperwhite 100w low beams and hyperwhite highbeams
nice piaa take offs i found at wallyworld cause 3 sets of piaas have been stolen- not buying any more they look good and seem to be doing the trick
jumpered foglight mod so fogs can be turned on with just parkin lights

i think that's about all

still tuning the car right now- gonna try and run as much 93 octane as possible but for the time being i am running 110 octane-- getting kinda expensive.

would really like advice on tuning-- fuel pressure right now is 25 psi and under throttle dropps to 20 psi- am goin to try to raise it to 30-35 psi but having trouble due to overheating-- waiting for radiator to finish tuning car

that's what ive been up to

questions/comments/advice welcome

also forgot to mention-
brakes-
aem gas slotted cross-drilled 12" 2 piece anodiezed blue rotors with oem caliper reposition kit

konig monsoons 18 x 7 1/2" rims

federal 595 rear tires and continental sport contact front tires 225/40

-"Easy Mac"
05 Mazda RX-8 (RR8 #88)
99 Eclipse RS 398whp & 372lb-ft

why 2.4l cams?

why 2.4l cams?

this is what i had in the car when i purchased it--- i was also told that they were a little hotter than stock 2.0 cams..maybe not since the reaction you all have been having--

Surprised it doesn't choke itself out on fuel, those injectors are about twice as big as you need.--

---just so happend when i installed the fuel pressure regulator the set screw was all the way out- so when started the car without fuckin with safc- it ran- reved ok only till about 3000rpm- so i pulled away some fuel with the afc and upped the fuel pressure- only 5 psi but for the time being its all the time i had for tuning- so i will continue to up the fuel and take away more from the afc

Did you have fun indexing the PT cams to work with our head.----

----to tell you the truth those cams actually were in the car when i bought it from some lady in rockwall-- the numbers are for a 2.4L crysler-- same as in the caravan-- the cam gears were flipped the other way round---

You got titanium retainers and didn't upgrade your valve springs?---
----i bought the head from a friend of mine- this was the setup his backup head-- he doesnt remember if the springs were replaced or not-- i will check into this cause this will limits how high i spin the motor

I assume you got your head oringed and a receiver goove machined into the block?---

----the block was oringed- mushes into the copper headgasket- there was a reciever groove in the gasket- head wasn't o-ringed---- no leaks-- used coppercoat sealant

What is an MSD tach fuel adapter? Do you mean the tach adapter so you don't get a CEL?--

--- this was the adaptor msd said i had to run cause when i installed it the first time the car wouldnt start-- if i remember correctly its because the msd dis-2 took power away from the fuel injectors and i believe the tach as well-

Fuel pressure you want to stay above 30psi or you can adversely effect the spray pattern of the injectors.----

---- this i understand- i do believe that i picked up a set of injectors that were a bit too large-- but bob norwood said i should be able to take away enough fuel from the safc to get it to run right-- if i continue to have a problem i will take them back--- they were flowed at motech at 45lbs@50psi

Running 12:1 compression you should have the ability to retard ignition timing if needed. An ignition amp with retard module would do the trick.---

--- the msd dis-2 has timing retard built in-- havnt played with this feature yet cause im running 110 octane and not detonating-- im sure it will come in handy when i start adding more 93 octane

So tell me why raising your fuel pressure would cause you to overheat?----

--- the way i wrote that made it sound like that-- my appologies-- i was going to up the fuel pressure, but do to the fact my car liked to overheat so quickly at idle i was not able to tune the car, or up the fuel pressure. i have an aluminum c&r radiator with a spal lightweight highflow fan on the way and should take care of the overheating issue- i hope. it should be here on friday.

If you truly are running this set up you have too much fuel. You could tune stock injectors to run this set up. I'd say 24 or 26 lb/hr injectors would do the trick, especially with the small cams.--

----i dont have the time to play around with you folks- not a liar-- this is my setup!

----i have a set of custom ground crower drag cams with a 532 lift but need to do some research to make sure they wont hit the tops of the pistons--- they were installed on my car before going high compression but we couldnt get the car to start- we figured out that the dowls needed to be redrilled- we'll see what happens when i get the cams back from my friend.
to add stock injectors are 235cc if im not mistaken so they are already about 24lbs. for the power id like to make everyone tells me they are too small-- i really needed about a 40lbs injector but norwood didnt have any at the time--- one thing cool about running larger injectors is when you take away fuel from the safc it actually tricks the stock computer into thinking that fuel cut is actually after 7000 rpm- so i should technically be able to spin the motor higher than stock limits when taking away fuel from the safc 2.

hope this answered your questions
Kareem

i 3rd the pic request

2005 Legacy GT Ltd, Garnet Red Pearl
speak softly and spool a big turbo

dunno about the cams man--- the car runs--- as for the information i got for the safc was provided by road race engeniering.com- they had a section about that. i thought it was just a pirk of taking away fuel, may be different on our cars.
send me your email address and ill send you all the pics you can handle.
kkaidbey01@sprintpcs.com

thanks
Kareem

yall wanted pics---- well here ya go


night shot of car- minus iceman intake

block in engine bay- copper head gasket- arp head studs- wiseco pistons 12:1

up close


front bumper was painted but my buddy backed into it 1 1/2 weeks after paintjob was done- so had to fix it and havnt sprayed it since



apexi safc 2 mounted on dash

rochester 50lbs injectors next to stock 235cc injectors

clutchmasters stage 3 clutch and aluminum flywheel



aem fuel pressure regulator and fabricated fuel return line

fuel rail and fabricated fuel return line aeroquip fittings







o-ringed block- pistons peekin out

eagle h-beam rods arp bolts

hope you like it

Very nice.

What are your power goals with the car? get your fuel sorted out and you should be making some good numbers.

Road Race is a 4G63 shop. They are not fans of the 420A, so carry very little support for us. There tuning info is also set towards the 4G63 which is mass air instead of MAP based, and a totally different ECU programming. So not everything they have applies to us as far as info goes.

I know I came at you a little hard, but welcome aboard, glad to have you.



Exile Racing Technologies: http://www.exileracing.com
una salus victus

trust me dude- its 60mm- and rolled back to the rest of the manafold- the guys at kim barr racing did a great job on it- if you have any questions you are more than welcome to check it out for yourself.

and to answer a previous question- i would love to hit 300hp all motor- dont know how fesable it is but im gonna try to get close.. tis my goal anyway

dallas texas

Kareem

quote from Mike:

>The only thing we've seen is that the ECU can advance timing a few >degrees by leaning out the S-AFC.

Exactly. With bigger injectors than you need you SHOULD be able to lean the SAFC, get the fuel ratio you want, and trick the computer into giving you even more timing advance. I actually tried this, but for some reason the injectors I used didn't agree witht he car. I couldn't get the fuel curve to smooth out. I might try again soeday.

And, good luck with your setup. With that many mods, some practice and the right launch you should be running 14s. I don't know about 300hp NA, unless you find a way to rev to 9000 rpms reliably.

"Tutto fa brodo."

Todd Scungio
98 RS
15.173 @ 90.70 MPH

And also a 2011 Ralliart

NOS is definatly in the future for my car but getting the fuel right is the issue right now--
i think i have my cooling issue licked-- c&r radiator has been installed- still a little bit of air in the system but i am workin it out-
dont like the fact it only comes with one spal fan, but the guys at morepowerracing.com say it does the job of both-- only have the cooling fan harness hooked up to it-- once i get my a/c hooked back up i will connect the condenser fan harness to it--
-- after playing around with safc and fuel i have pressure at idle to be about 33psi

If you are going to make a serious run at 300hp. You are most likely going to have to save your pennies and go stand alone.

The stock ECU just isn't that smart.

That is a big damn fan... If you are having problems staying cool, I would add some water wetter.



Exile Racing Technologies: http://www.exileracing.com
una salus victus

damn dude thats a sweet car and motor build... I think i may have just found a new favorite... now we need some better pics of the car so i can add it to my background on my laptop.

props to another goin all motor. Im seriously thinking of going this route. I was something challanging. I just need to get a daily driver before that ever happens.

_______________________________________
The end of the internet begins here... www.broke-off.com

i have to give it to you man, yoru car is fuckinga wsome... inside and out

2005 Corolla XRS
2ZZ 6-speed

So have you had it out on the street much in that state of tune? I'm curious as to how streetable the 12.5:1 CR is. I've got the 10.5 right now and I have to say, those pistons look like fucking Pike's Peak in those cylinders. LOL

well fellas i couldnt be happier with those last replies-- im elated to know you like my car. i will work on getting some more pics online.
as for my tuning--- gotten the fuel close-- its pretty quick-- but to tell you the truth i wish it was faster for the time and money i put into it-- then again its tuned rather roughly--- only has about 600 miles on the motor-- cooling isnt a major problem anymore and i think i have attributed the overheating to irratic detonation--- but i couldnt understand why i would have any detonation at all runnin straight 110 octane in the past.--
latley i have been playin around with fuel mixtures (couple tanks of 25% 110 and 75% 93) cause to tell you the truth-- 2.10 a gallon is a lot better then 5.10 a gallon.-ESPESIALLY SINCE MY CAR CAN SUCK SOME DAMN GAS DOWN- just got off of work and had less than an 8th of a tank of 93/110 mix-- so i threw some of that NOS Racing formula octane booster and was glad to see it wasnt detonating much,acutally one or two knocks less than the 110mix, except for a couple of full throttle pulls, detonation got up there.-- my detonation is rather irratic with and without the new nos run-- cant quite figure it out yet-- but for the most part at idle I get anywhere from 1-9 knocks, over that on low throttle seems to be vertually no knocking- just intermittent 3 or 4 pings-- i am getting those reading from the safc2-- this all means good news cause i dont have to rely on stopping off at the race shop to make sure i always have 110 on hand.- versatility is the key-- cant be bound to race shop hours.--- we'll see how long that lasts cause i only drove it after filling up for about 10 min-- fuckin tired-long day at work--

so progress is ok on my rizide-- one thing that really bothers me is i have found a little oil leak- seems to be comming from where the bed plate meets the block just above the oil filter next to the crank position sensor. i was under my car last night changing my 500 mile black ass oil and re tightened the bed bolts on the back side of the motor over spec of 21lbs, they are about 26lbs now-- fuck pullin the oil pan off at 1 in the morning. but sad to see the leak is still there-- when i was assembling the motor, i called dodge and mitsu and they both said < to my suprise> no sealant was nessasary between the bed plate and block but if i was REALLY worried about it i could use some rtv or something. so goin by what they said i used no sealant. wish i did now-- leak is rather small- about a drip every second or so. i would love to get rid of this,synthetic oil is expensive too and at at LEAST one quart every 4 days or so--- ANY real suggestions on fixing this problem besides pullin the motor and takin the bed plate back off would be greatly appriciated-----PLEASE HELP--
as for the cooling issue again- i will try some of that water wetter as soon as i get my hands on a bottle-- every bit will help-

to add this is my daily driver-- have a second car 91 pos cavalier but dont wanna ever drive that again-- i aught to throw some pictures of it up here and let yall see what ive been driving for 5 months-- really scary

THANKS AGAIN FOR YALLS IMPUT -- AND LOVIN THE PRAISES-- KEEP EM COMMIN'


KAREEM

to add i have retarded the timing on the msd dis-2 3 degrees-may need more retardedness heheheheh

For your bedplate leaking problem.

Did you use anerobic sealer between the bedplate and the block?

There is also an o-ring that has to go between the two, and if it's not there will cause a leak. There are a few guys around here that have forgotten that o-ring, and sprung a leak.



Exile Racing Technologies: http://www.exileracing.com
una salus victus

Finally. Someone did it right and built it up all out all motor. Now just pull and redo the bedplate so it doesn't die on you. I agree with Michael on getting setup with a full standalone. That's the only way to pull every last bit of power out of the car. Since you are already knocking I would retard a little timing but that's up to you. Good luck, I would love to see some videos of the car and hear it run, I'm sure it sounds like a beast!




______________________________________________________________________________
Car Sold

http://hometown.aol.com/ohshootuhh/
www.Fast420A.com

2005 Corolla XRS
2ZZ 6-speed

well shit........now i really cant remember if i put in the o-ring or not- i will try to do this from under the car-- the only thing im worried about is making sure that rear seal stays straight
--- and to clarify the bed plate torque specs are 55lbs for the main bolts and 21lbs for the perimiter bolts, correct?
what brand sealant would you recommend-- would something like coppercoat work well here?

i will try and get this done sunday or monday-- we'll see how time alots its self for me.

thanks
Kareem

What is true ... and what you want to be true ... isn\'t always the same thing.

why dont you come over and paint it for me Jeremy-- you have more time than i do

dOOd, ur car is sick!!!!!

To say teh least I am very impressed witht the knowledge that goes into builing a motor like that. And that paintjob is AMAZING!! I haven't seen very many cars (let alone an eclipse) that can pull that off so nicely. And wingless too.

Brian has some competion in teh house IMO. with deep pockets by the looks of it!! lol

I eat emo kids for breakfast

1995 Eagle Talon (SOLD)
72' SuperBeetle
72' Standard Beetle
56' Deluxe Beetle

Originally posted by cream420

---

2012 2500HD LML

power goals i would love to have 300- right now it feels like about 200- goals for the moment is to be able to run 93 octane--- might be a fat chance w/o a stand alone. we'll see--

as for the c&r radiator- it comes with one spal lightweight highflow fan- it is mounted in the position that the factory compressor fan is located (directly infront of motor)- they claim it will do the job of both fans if spal is hooked up to both harnesses (compressor and cooling).

i am actually still having issues with cooling-- i had to add coolant today-- overflow was were it should be- no coolant leaks xpt for what comes out of the overflow when it starts to boil-- still havnt had the chance to get some water wetter.

- as for the sealant i used coppercoat brushed on sealant for the head gasket (they make an aerosol as well)-- will this work or can you suggest a name brand that works well

---

2012 2500HD LML

Hmm... if you are actually overflowing the coolant I would look towards the copper headgasket as being a possible culprit. I tried a copper gasket a while back and it didn't seal right. Granted I didn't have the deck checked and was using OEM head bolts. But it still is something to concider.



Exile Racing Technologies: http://www.exileracing.com
una salus victus

"As for the sealant, the copper stuff is good stuff, but not for the bedplate. We use the copper spray on all kinds of stuff down here in Arizona, but the bedplate is not one of them. For the amount of work it takes to get the bedplate off, it's only smart that you use the right stuff so you never have to do it again. Wouldn't you agree? Get the anaerobic and get it done right so you don't have to worry about that thing leaking."


can you specify a good brand to use- or is any spray that says anaerobic sealant on it good enough---- if im correct anaerobic sealants harden when there is no air present, correct???

thanks for your help------- on another note that cooling problem is driving me nuts- i cant figure it out- but one things for sure if the system is not topped off with coolant it doesnt like to sit at idle for too long.

are you talkin about somethin like this:

http://www.permatex.com/products/industrial_individual_products2.asp?selectid=100&category=gasketing&oe_category=exterior&product=Permatex,%20Anaerobic%20Gasket%20Maker

or loctite 518 or 510

when i spread it on the bed plate- i sould use an even THIN coat over mating surfaces, correct???

where can i get these products,,, napa, oriley's, autozone?

I have two of these tubes sitting in my garage right now:

http://permatex.com/products/prodidx.asp?automotive=yes&f_call=get_item&item_no=51845

The AZ2GNT crew uses this for the bedplate and oil pump. It works well for using between machined surfaces. I know my 5 speed is put together with it. We use it in my shop when re-assembling transmission cases. Good stuff bro.

EDIT: Napa sells it. I think Autozone could even get it if they do not shelf it. As for the bedplate, just lay an even bead around the block before seating the bedplate. No need to smooth it with your finger or anything. Almost like laying a bead of silicone.

---

2012 2500HD LML

well just picked up some of that anaerobic permitex gasket maker, like you said autozone didn't have it but its on the shelf at napa (about 15 bucks for a 50ml tube)- also picked up an autometer ultra lite egt with probe today- should help with the tuning.- gonna also try running 114 instead of 110 octane so i picked up 5 gal of that today too.- as soon as i can find the time to rip the bedplate off- she's gonna sit idle for a while -gonna drive the girlfriend's car for right now. wish me luck pullin that bedplate from underneath the car.
thanks

Kareem

Looks pretty sweet to me. Especially the intake manifold pics. Good luck getting everything running right and breaking into the 14's. It would be nice to finally see a decently fast NA 2gnt. BTW on the dual exhaust!
-Dave

2009 Corolla S - waiting until 2012 for my next toy!
*SOLD* 1992 3000GT VR4 - pearl white and 45,6xx miles!
*SOLD* 2007 Subaru Legacy GT sedan
*SOLD* 95 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 - BPU
*SOLD* 97 Eclipse GS Star Stage 2

just outta curiosity what should my egt read on this kind of a setup- what degrees would tell me how rich or lean i am? what range should i stay in?

you live in dallas? hmm i think i talked to you once at earmark audio ? anyways the intake manifold is smaller than the tb so i think thats what he meant when he said to check

anyways good to see someone else from dallas. i wanna see what your badboy is capable of

do you know josh? stage 6+ gs with over 600hp? (if it will ever run again)

______________________________________

11.65 @ 115

kareem, check ur pm's

Ben... i don't think Joshie's car well ever see the sexy asphault for more than 3 minutes at a time. not 2, not 4, but 3... yeh that's right.LOL, i wish he would thought, i love smellin that thing drivin in front of me, raw powa...really raw

"kareem, check ur pm's "

what do you mean by pm's

agian to clarify- the intake manifold was bored to 60mm- then was ported and polished--they rolled it in to the rest of the manifold- trust me it is 60mm.- that picture kind of makes it look that way- but on the otherhand look how off-center it is, if it was that way i wouldnt put that on my car

can anyone tell me what should my egt read on this kind of a setup- what degrees would tell me how rich or lean i am? what range should i stay in?
- help on this could really help me tune this car better
thanks
Kareem

____________________________________________________
four nails four corners four riders and four horses

when she says pm's she means private messages. at the top of the page it should say user control panel. inside that link it say inbox. you read the messages people from the board send you

______________________________________

11.65 @ 115

i dont have anything that says control panel or anything that says inbox on this page or at the homepage of 2gnt

i was told that that gauge and probe were fairly accurate-- since i dont have a datalogger i figured this would suffice-maybe later i will get that other thermoprobe- and no im not gonna pay 300 dollars for a greddy gauge. i spend what i need to spend when i have to spend it- i work real hard for my money.

to add where is a good place to drill in the header for the egt probe- autometer says 1-2 inches away from head (which only gets readings from the one cylinder) or 6 inches down from where manifold and pipe meet.(in my case it only gets readings from 2 cylinders)
i was under the impression that it would go after all the pipes came together but before the catalitic converter.

where should i drill to tap the egt probe in?

thanks
Kareem

The turbo guys usually put it in the runner for cylinder #4 (farthest from cam gears) as that cylinder tends to be the leanest one if at all.

would that still apply with a fuel return system.-- inlet is on the side away from cam gears, return line closest to cam gears?


as a side note- i just finished pealin the block and bedplate apart and found no o-ring - so with the working space of less than a 1/4 inch and armed with a mirror and a drop light and a piece of a ziptie i try my best to align the o-ring up with the recess in the block. the bed plate has no recess for the o-ring. did my best to clean up the mating area and squeezed some of that nasty red anaerobic sealant in the cracks- squeezed the block and plate back together and reassembled everything. funny thing is i had the cops called on me for a noise complaint-- guess my neighbors didnt like me using a hammer at 1:00am- anyway- filled the car back up with oil and turned the motor over a few times with the msd disconnected to build up some oil pressure- then plugged the msd back up and fired it over-- sad to say that there is still a little dribble commin out. i went under and tightened one of the bed bolts and left it at that-
i hope this procedure has at least reduced the amount of oil it leaks- hopefully all of it - maybe that sealant has to cure longer we'll see this weekend-- ill install the egt and oil pressure gauges this weekend hopefully and get my car on the dyno soon to get my car tweeked the right way.

you want to see an na car... just wait...

Cyrus

drove my car today-- i have virtually no oil leak- so that was to my relief, cuz i really didn't wanna take that damn bedplate loose again.- one of the most tedious and probably the hardest thing ive had to do to the car.

can anyone tell me what should my egt read on this kind of a setup- what degrees would tell me how rich or lean i am? what range should i stay in?
- help on this could really help me tune this car better
thanks
Kareem

you should be running a water/methanol injection setup to boost your 93 or 94 octane up so you dont have to pay out the ass for race gas imo.
www.snowperformance.net

the fastest 420a na ive heard of was this guy with a neon all motor at like 320hp to the wheels. but of course he has some crazy ass setup like crane 0022 cams and 18:1 cr and shit.

Steve-o
Top secret.

Originally posted by FlyinEsi
I guess I'll just have to live with a 500+ hp AWD 4-banger.

ok folks, this is where i sit now......

just finish re-torqued the head studs to 75ft/lbs- cause there was a good possibility the head-gasket is leaking on the inside (cant explain why, cause i used enough coppercoat) so re torquing the bolts may help. after running the car it still got hot- after running the car for 30 min it doesnt like to stay cool at idle either. but by reving to about 3000 it quickly subsides.---- may need to go to just a regular MLS gasket and say fuck the copper gasket(150bucks) and forget about the money i spent o-ringin the block(100bucks). this cooling issue is rather aggrivating.

attached my competition extention to the iceman intake-- big difference. noticed my knock numbers were lower then they normally are especially at idle after driving for a while. power gains as well. thinkin that the engine before was suckin in too much of that hot header air, probably why the numbers went down after the install, especially at idle. but the intermittent knocking is still bothering me

also hooked up my dual pod full a-pillar egt and oil pressure gauge the probe is about 3 inches away from the head (all that's left is hooking up the vacuum line to the oil pressure port- just need to pickup some brass fittings so i can also have the stock oil light working right). the gauge pillar looks nice. got rid of that stupid monster tach and shiftlight. dont really need them.

so i ran the car tonight and like i said more power with the iceman comp pipe. my egt read about 1000 degrees or just over when just cruisin (3-4000rpm), but gave it a couple of good 3rd 4th 5th gear pulls and the temps climb to around 1200+ degrees. it never hit 1300 as far as i saw. i also noticed that when i decelled the temp dropped sometimes to about 800 but not less.
What does this say about how im runnin- ive never had an egt or had to monitor one. does this mean im getting leaner? or does it naturally just run hotter on pulls cause more gas is being burned?
where does my temp range need to be?
PLEASE HELP?
egtprobe in header
autometer monster tach that now lives in my bedroom
gauges illuminated
egt and oil pressure autometer ultralight gauges
interior

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong here, but your EGTs will go as you lean out. Richening the mixture acts a sort of coolant and lowers temps at the cost of ultimate power. So if you have an SAFC, you might think about adding a little more fuel between 3000-5000 rpm.


Glad to hear its running better. You've almost got it done man. Word to your mother.

thank you for that reply--- so with an NA car do those temps apply?
if so just stay cooler than 1300? im generally around the 1000 range on a hard pull it will hit just over 1200
i acutally added some fuel at the top end and noticed more power (it climbed a bit smoother .. plus i got a scratch in third-- and with my motor mounts that says alot-- (need new mounts, at least passanger side)

what kind of datalogger would you recommend- and about what is the price range?--
also where can you get windshield adhesive?- if i remember correctly we can use this to fill existing motor mounts to make them stronger.

thanks Kareem

i am still blowin a smoke cloud under hard acceleration starting at low rpms and another at the begining and again when i shift to second-so im running too rich sometimes and not enough others- i need to know where exactly to be adding fuel- this is why i got the egt. what degrees let you know what is rich and lean for our cars? or where should i stay around?

I'm selling an Accell DFI 6 if youre interested. better fine tuning for your setup than the afc imo

AND IT ALL COMES TUMBLING DOWN........

car for the past couple days has been spontaniously dying. first time just takin a left turn then i was able to start it right back up.happened again that night. next day drove it and it died on me a bunch. then i learned that if i armed the car and disarmed it it would start right back up, but if i didnt i could spin the motor over forever without starting. the third day the alarm arm disarm thing didnt respond as well got stuck out in garland for 45 minutes after getting some 110 octane. jacked car up and checked crank sensor-disconnected and reconneced- i didnt have tools to take it out but looks brand new like the day i put it in not but 2 months ago. checked the cam sensor looks fine- msd box i bypassed and still same issue- i can watch the led on the top of the msd when connected and see if its getting/sending signal, no blinky blinky, just a half ass blink at the very begining of a crank and doesnt happen every time. errr. what could the problem be? i was thinking possibly the alarm system but learned that it has ignition kill on the csm-2(code alarm's remote start module)- so i pulled the module- still didnt start.the brain has starter kill but no ignition kill if im not mistaken (code alarm pro 5500). anyway i have no spark- i remember a while ago i had to get my computer replaced for the very same thing- could spin the motor over but no spark. that time it started for me once after but took some coaxing, then never started again. my issue now is goin on 4 days- and i had to pull my car with a tow strap to my house behind my girlfriend in her 98 protoge, what a scene.

any suggestions?

does anyone have a stock 96 computer i could plug up to see if that's the case?

i also purchased a new alarm and will rip the old one out soon to do some diagnostics with the alarm removed.

Do0d, you might want to see about posting this recent problem in the perf/engine forum to get some more exposure. Granted, you may wait just as long to get the real solution to the problem, but at least you will get answers to read while you wait.

ive replyed on the performance/engine side and only one reply-- says to check the fuel and ignition relays-- i dont know were they are located-- to tell you the truth i didnt know they existed


PLEASE HELP


Kareem

Hi Kareem, Whew! where do I start?
I notice you are having a major problem with your set up.
here is some of the things I think you can change to make your car more drivable.

1st get rid of the injectors, get some Accel 24# injectors, Accel has the best spray pattern even at low fuel pressures if you need to pull some fuel.

2nd you have way too much compression if you are running 110 octane and still getting pinging.

Only way to properly use that much compression is if you have really big cams in the 280 to 300 degree advertised duration.

But most stock or even AFX pcm's have problems with cams above 260 degree duration because of the low vacuum signal at low rev ranges.

3rd it appears you still have your catalytic comverter still on, with that much compression and big cams it will definently hurt and make the motor run hot.

Run a resonator and the most freeflow muffler you can find.
If you get the Accel injectors turn the fuel pressure up to 45 psi and tune from there.

4th your goal of 300 whp is not very realistic, because you would have to spin around 9600 rpm to get those numbers and some giant cams, not to mention standalone computer.

If you are getting a standalone, that will help you out tremendously but tuning, to straighten it out will take a loooong time on the dyno.
Even then your compression ratio might still be a problem.

There was a neon org member that tried a similar set up to yours and was told that if he coated everything, he could drive it on pump gas or at least 100 octane.
The Neon vendor sold him coated everthing , piston tops, skirts, valves,exhaust ports and combustion chambers.
Car pinged right above idle and everywhere else for that matter, not even 100 octane cured it.

If you are not getting a standalone and have to rely on a stock or stock based computer, lower the compression, with your head milled .030 you are well within the 12.5 range if not higher.

How big will your custom race cam be? duration will play a key factor in weather or not you should keep your current ratio.

5th if your cam is going to have a lift of .532, you will definatly need a custom valve spring retainer and springs.

that much lift at low speeds will give you a lot of reversion if you keep your cat.

Not knowing your intended cams size I can only give you this advise, lower your compression ratio.
You can take out the piston and have them shaved .050, the Wiseco's are notorious for having thick domes.

You can also lower the compression by modifying the combustion chambers in the cylinder head, it can get you down in the 11 to 1 or 11.5 to one area depending on your cams you are going to use.

lastly it appears you got bit by the bigger is better bug and got a little carried away in your selection of parts and now, as you can see the car is a pain to drive , isn't it?... and not very reliable.

Whoever is building your motor or advising you on the selection of parts seems to have be experimenting with new ideas with your car, just like the Neon owner that drove 300 miles from the Neon vendors "performance" shop all the way back home with his car pinging every step of the way.

If working with 12.5 compression and giant cams on a street vehicle was your goal , then you should have started with a standalone and dyno tuned every step of the way.

If you go that route, take it to the dyno right away, even forged piston can melt..............
Eddy Fierro

go fast or go home

thank you Eddy that was alot of good information-- i will probably get rid of the cat or go high flow- definalty dyno tuning is in the future- but i need to get it running again--
PLEASE READ
"AND IT ALL COMES TUMBLING DOWN........

car for the past couple days has been spontaniously dying. first time just takin a left turn then i was able to start it right back up.happened again that night. next day drove it and it died on me a bunch. then i learned that if i armed the car and disarmed it it would start right back up, but if i didnt i could spin the motor over forever without starting. the third day the alarm arm disarm thing didnt respond as well got stuck out in garland for 45 minutes after getting some 110 octane. jacked car up and checked crank sensor-disconnected and reconneced- i didnt have tools to take it out but looks brand new like the day i put it in not but 2 months ago. checked the cam sensor looks fine- msd box i bypassed and still same issue- i can watch the led on the top of the msd when connected and see if its getting/sending signal, no blinky blinky, just a half ass blink at the very begining of a crank and doesnt happen every time. errr. what could the problem be? i was thinking possibly the alarm system but learned that it has ignition kill on the csm-2(code alarm's remote start module)- so i pulled the module- still didnt start.the brain has starter kill but no ignition kill if im not mistaken (code alarm pro 5500). anyway i have no spark- i remember a while ago i had to get my computer replaced for the very same thing- could spin the motor over but no spark. that time it started for me once after but took some coaxing, then never started again. my issue now is goin on 4 days- and i had to pull my car with a tow strap to my house behind my girlfriend in her 98 protoge, what a scene.i also purchased a new alarm and will rip the old one out soon to do some diagnostics with the alarm removed---- i also disconnected both brains to the computer and still nogo-- so i dont think its the alarm.

any suggestions?

does anyone have a stock 96 computer i could plug up to see if that's the case?


HELP PLEASE---
someone mentioned fuel and ignition relays that could be the cause of the no spark-- where are they located if they exist

1st take out the spark plugs, clean them and gap them to .035, starting your car is the goal right now and that gap puts the least amount of strain on the coil packs,better yet get a set of new plugs.

We use that plug gap on our turbo neons with 18 psi boost and COMPLETELY stock ignition system, very reliable.

If that doesn't get you started, check resistance at the coil pack between electrodes and compare to stock values, don't have my book in front of me right now, but I am sure someone can chime in.

Msd ignition and tach adapters have been known to fry coils, especially if you gapped over .040 on the plug.

If the coil packs check out, check for power at the coil pack, both sides at the connector harness while cranking, are both sides of the coil getting juice?

If spark is ok then your next place to look at is the injectors, get a mechanics sthesoscope (real cheap $14 at autozone or Pep boys)place the probe on the injector body itself, it should sound like a loud metalic tapping when the injector opens up during cranking.

If the injector checks out , see if you have enough fuel pressure or even if the fuel pump is working at all.

If the fuel pump is not working , check the fuses for the fuel pump, if they keep blowing it might be a bad 02 sensor since it blows fuses when they go bad and are tied to the fuel pump fuse.

Have to wait and see the results to go to the next set of troubleshooting steps if the car still doesn't start.

go fast or go home

And FYI, the relays you're looking for are mounted on the firewall on the driver's side. They are on a bracket and plug in from the bottom. Eddy knows what he's talking about though. If I was in your shoes, I'd be all over what he's suggesting.

12:1 CR pistons + .030 mill will net you around 13:1 CR or higher (I had a .030 mill on my car ... bumped up compression around 1 point). The copper HG if it is not the stock thickness will bump you up even higher. 12:1 car will run fine on 100+ octane. 13+:1 ... kinda crazy. Just FYI.

-"Easy Mac"
05 Mazda RX-8 (RR8 #88)
99 Eclipse RS 398whp & 372lb-ft

"1st take out the spark plugs, clean them and gap them to .035, starting your car is the goal right now and that gap puts the least amount of strain on the coil packs,better yet get a set of new plugs."
--- i just changed the plugs-- spec on ngk r (vpower) is .050- that's what i gapped them at-

"We use that plug gap on our turbo neons with 18 psi boost and COMPLETELY stock ignition system, very reliable."

"If that doesn't get you started, check resistance at the coil pack between electrodes and compare to stock values, don't have my book in front of me right now, but I am sure someone can chime in."
--- coil pack is new less than 1000 miles

"Msd ignition and tach adapters have been known to fry coils, especially if you gapped over .040 on the plug."
----.050

"If the coil packs check out, check for power at the coil pack, both sides at the connector harness while cranking, are both sides of the coil getting juice?"
---- no -- havnt checked with volt meter or testlight yet, but the signal cable goes to the msd then to the coil pack-- the msd gives a weak led light for the first part of the crank if any light then contiued black light-- which means no spark is being sent--- so i bypassed the msd and still no luck-- i will check the lines for juice but dont think we'll find any.

"If spark is ok then your next place to look at is the injectors, get a mechanics sthesoscope (real cheap $14 at autozone or Pep boys)place the probe on the injector body itself, it should sound like a loud metalic tapping when the injector opens up during cranking."
getting fuel"
- its gettin fuel-can smell gas when trying to crank continuously

"If the injector checks out , see if you have enough fuel pressure or even if the fuel pump is working at all."
----have fuel pressure-- 36psi-- what i set it at


"If the fuel pump is not working , check the fuses for the fuel pump, if they keep blowing it might be a bad 02 sensor since it blows fuses when they go bad and are tied to the fuel pump fuse."
-- i hear the fuel pump prime when i turn the key"

"Have to wait and see the results to go to the next set of troubleshooting steps if the car still doesn't start."
------thanks -- what else you suggest?---- know anyone that works on pcms for our cars so they can test this one or fix it?

YYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS


THANK YOU VERY MUCH---- it was the ignition relay-- just swapped it out with one from my door poppers since my entire consol was conveniently removed. and took a second but fired up-- THE ECLIPSE IS ALIVE--- so now to autozone to get a replacement!!!!!!

I STRIKE THAT PREVIOUS STATEMENT FROM THE RECORD---DROVE IT FOR THE FIRST TIME IN A WEEK AND MADE IT HALF WAY TO WORK-- STILL HAVIN SAME ISSUE--- CAR WILL RUN FOR UNSPECIFIED AMOUNT OF TIME BETWEEN 3-30 SECONDS--- --
WHAT IS THIS PROBLEM?--- WHY NOW AFTER EVERYTHING IVE DONE?

PLEASE HELP---

DOES SOMEONE HAVE A PCM I CAN PLUG UP FOR 5 MINUTES?


HELP HELP HELP

I didnt read through this whole thing, but if you are detonating:

1. ignition amplifier
2. gap your plugs colder (.030-.028)
3. propane injection (~110octane) www.importpoweronline.com


Don't run a stock cat, its probably gobbed up already. Testpipe or high-flow depending on emissions.

Those are my suggestions. The cheapest being to regap your plugs, Kenne Bell boost-a-spark, then IPO Propane. I'll be running the propane on my friends 3kGT SL-TT. Thats right, TT w/ 10:1 CR. Hit me up on AIM.

the car has been spontaniously dying. first time just takin a left turn then i was able to start it right back up.happened again that night. next day drove it and it died on me a bunch. then i learned that if i armed the car and disarmed it it would start right back up, but if i didnt i could spin the motor over forever without starting. the third day the alarm arm disarm thing didnt respond as well got stuck out in garland for 45 minutes after getting some 110 octane. jacked car up and checked crank sensor-disconnected and reconneced- i didnt have tools with me to take it out but looks brand new like the day i put it in not but 2 months ago. checked the cam sensor looks fine- msd box i bypassed and still same issue- i can watch the led on the top of the msd when connected and see if its getting/sending signal, no blinky blinky, just a half ass blink at the very begining of a crank and doesnt happen every time. errr. what could the problem be? i was thinking possibly the alarm system but learned that it has ignition kill on the csm-2(code alarm's remote start module)- so i pulled the module- still didnt start.the brain has starter kill but no ignition kill if im not mistaken (code alarm pro 5500). anyway i have no spark- i remember a while ago i had to get my computer replaced for the very same thing- could spin the motor over but no spark. that time it started for me once after but took some coaxing, then never started again. my issue now is goin on over a week PLEASE HELP-i also purchased a new alarm and will rip the old one out soon to do some diagnostics with the alarm removed---- i also disconnected both brains to the computer and still nogo-- so i dont think its the alarm.

please help--- what could be goin on--- is it the pcm?
thanks for the help with the detonation issue but i need the car to stay running right? heheheh
thanks
Kareem

It is my understanding that our cars do not have a knock sensor. So what did you attach the safc-2 to?
I have it as well, and if in fact we DO have a knock sensor, I would like to hook mine up as well.

Built block.
Refinished head.
Tuned suspension.
TURBO.

__________________________________________
~Chris
03 SRT-4

~Luke
Facebook
1969 Cougar - 11.91 - 380HP
2007 GSXR 750
1999 OZ - SOLD - 15.26 NA - 14.71 on 75 shot

There is a knock sensor, but it is not compatible with the SAFC2 and will not display accurate results.

For the record, it's the white wire with a yellow stripe in the ECU harness.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

so why is it when my car knocks... the timing isn't retarded by the ecu till it goes away. It will just keep knocking if I maintain that engine load and RPM.
What keeps safc from reading it correctly. Is it worth hooking it up just to... well... have some sort of reading??

Built block.
Refinished head.
Tuned suspension.
TURBO.

sorry it took so long to reply but i havnt been on in a while
i have recently purchased a 2003 wrx and love it
still have the eclipse though..... anyway
as far as the knock sensor
the safc-2 will take readings from your motor at idle and at a raised rpm-- and from there set a base for what additional readings the knock sensor picks up----
this is not an accurate means of knock monitoring-- just an idea and for lack of better terminoligy another bell or wistle of the safc-2


kareem

Did you ever figure out the spontaneous dying of the motor? If not, Im 99% sure its you MSD. I had one and I had all the symptoms you did/do. Dying at left turns escpecially. If you die again, bypass the MSD with your plug and I bet it starts.

Hey, nice to see someone is just as crazy as i am, ive done almost the same kareem has to his, and i know exactly what your talking about with all the problems. I had the same problem with the oil leak and O-ring, and have burned 2 motors due to detonation, im just now finished with my most recent rebuild, and am starting her up in a few days. ill include a list of my mods for comparision/good idea, bad ideas and what not.

Engine:
CP 10.5-1 high compression pistons
Head Milled six thousanths for clean up purposes
Wiseco Rings
Balanced rotating assembly
Clevite Rod and Main Berrings
Block bored thirty thousanths over
Block Sleeved and honed
ARP Head Studs
Crane stage 2 cams
Crane Adjustable Cam gears
PT cruiser Rockers/lifters
Crane valve springs/tit. retainers
stainless steel valves
Modern Performance 60mm billet throttle body
MSD Dis-2 ignition w/retard (& launch control!)
MSD Coil
NGK Wires
Zex plugs
Hp racing 4-1 header
Greddy EVO exhaust
AEM Cool air intake w/bypass valve
Injectors ported to 310cc/min by RC Engineering
Walbro 255lph fuel pump
Adjustable fuel pressure regulator
Mopar performance ECU
Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch

Suspension:
Tein Flex Coil Over system
DC Sports strut tower bar

Other:
Autometer oil pressure, and air/fuel ratio gauges

The ecu i have changes the timing map and advances the timing a lil bit but i have no pinging problems yet. And i have good power from about 2500 on. The ecu is for a neon but it works. The reason for my previous blown engines was a poor fuel system, but thats changed now. I look to be running pretty strong, ill post pics in a week or you can just go to my site, which has old pics...http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/775307

Im new to this forum, but im glad to see another nonturbo build up, its good to know others are as crazy as i am.

Drive fast, live dangerously, look out for police
-Robbie