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Subject: "55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"

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cougar694u	Apr-18-05 12:13 PM
Donating 2GNT member 3381 posts,

#88421, "55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"

This maybe a possible repost, but I thought it'd be helpful since a ton of people go back and forth between 55's, 60's, and a 57.

49mm TB flows 252 cfm
52mm TB flows 283 cfm
55mm TB flows 317 cfm
60mm TB flows 377 cfm

At 8200 RPM a 122 cubic inch engine will need 290 cfm at 100% volumetric effiency, using the formula ((Max RPM/2)*Displacement)/1728. Rule of thumb is to go 10% over because a naturally aspirated engine can go above 100% volumetric efficiency because of cam overlap, header design, etc. Go above that and you kill low end because of reduced velocity, go below that you starve the engine for air at top end. 110% is volumetric efficiency is 319 cfm

It came from here:
http://www.allpar.com/neon/performance.html

but it applies to us just the same.

~Luke
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1969 Cougar - 11.91 - 380HP
2007 GSXR 750
1999 OZ - SOLD - 15.26 NA - 14.71 on 75 shot

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Replies to this topic

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, a_miller_76, Apr-18-05 12:22 PM, #1

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, DJ420a, Apr-18-05 12:29 PM, #2

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, madhatter210, Apr-18-05 12:30 PM, #3

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, baxsom, Apr-18-05 12:47 PM, #4

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, a_miller_76, Apr-18-05 12:49 PM, #5

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, ajcfalcon, Apr-18-05 01:11 PM, #6

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, a_miller_76, Apr-18-05 01:14 PM, #7

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, ajcfalcon, Apr-18-05 01:46 PM, #8

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, turbo8u, Apr-18-05 01:49 PM, #9

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, cougar694u, Apr-19-05 03:24 AM, #10

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, WickedESi, Apr-19-05 05:43 AM, #11

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, a_miller_76, Apr-19-05 05:48 AM, #12

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, Global Ruler Of All Things

Global Ruler Of All Things

DarkOne, Apr-19-05 05:55 AM, #13

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, a_miller_76, Apr-19-05 06:01 AM, #14

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, turbo8u, Apr-19-05 07:24 AM, #15

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, Global Ruler Of All Things

Global Ruler Of All Things

DarkOne, Apr-19-05 07:58 AM, #16

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, silverarrow, Apr-19-05 07:38 AM, #17

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, Global Ruler Of All Things

Global Ruler Of All Things

DarkOne, Apr-19-05 07:57 AM, #18

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, a_miller_76, Apr-19-05 10:32 AM, #19

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, ajcfalcon, Apr-19-05 11:08 AM, #20

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, silverarrow, Apr-19-05 08:09 AM, #21

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, cougar694u, Apr-19-05 10:26 AM, #22

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, CustomGS, Apr-19-05 12:16 PM, #23

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, cougar694u, Apr-20-05 03:46 AM, #24

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, a_miller_76, Apr-20-05 03:56 AM, #25

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, cougar694u, Apr-20-05 04:41 AM, #26

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, a_miller_76, Apr-20-05 05:30 AM, #27

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, turbo8u, Apr-20-05 06:44 AM, #28

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, Ryan_Hes, Apr-20-05 07:32 AM, #29

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, BlackMagic, Apr-20-05 09:24 AM, #30

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, 97whitESi, Apr-20-05 10:54 AM, #31

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, BlackMagic, Apr-20-05 01:41 PM, #32

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, DegreE, Apr-23-05 06:42 AM, #33

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, SilverBullet20g, Apr-23-05 07:06 AM, #34

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, turbo8u, Apr-24-05 07:26 AM, #35

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, CustomGS, Apr-20-05 09:50 AM, #36

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, cougar694u, Apr-20-05 11:39 AM, #37

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, Kaoz78, Apr-20-05 07:06 PM, #38

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, WheatKing, Apr-28-05 06:28 AM, #39

RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors, BlackMagic, Apr-28-05 06:40 AM, #40

a_miller_76	Apr-18-05 12:22 PM
Donating 2GNT member 9515 posts,

#88423, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 0

Dude it's like beating a dead horse. These kids who believe their 60-70mm tbs "make them faster" will NEVER believe your numbers. I'd say just drop it emoji

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DJ420a	Apr-18-05 12:29 PM
Member since May 19th 2004 1219 posts,

#88424, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 1

Well this def helped me. Ive been contemplating on what size to get, and I didnt even have to search.
Thanx for the info, points for you!!

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madhatter210	Apr-18-05 12:30 PM
Donating 2GNT member 2720 posts,

#88425, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 1

Originally posted by a_miller_76
Dude it's like beating a dead horse. These kids who believe their 60-70mm tbs "make them faster" will NEVER believe your numbers. I'd say just drop it emoji

lmao, but maybe if its repeated over and over again it will catch on emoji

a good refresher to post for those thinking of buying one

http://www.murderpimp.com

2gnt T-shirts&swag
http://www.cafepress.com/mads

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baxsom	Apr-18-05 12:47 PM
Member since Nov 27th 2004 758 posts,

#88426, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 3

i just went 55 because i am lazy
the opening on our intakes is within a mm of 55 when i measured mine so that was the less work to match up

besides concept illusions will do your stock to 55 and powdercoat for half the price of a 60mm

so ok i am cheap and lazy

1996 eclipse GS-T
1968 Ford Mustang
2004 Suzuki GSXR600
2006 Honda CBR1000RR
Decisions Decisions

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a_miller_76	Apr-18-05 12:49 PM
Donating 2GNT member 9515 posts,

#88427, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 4

You should also point out if you get a TB bigger than the opening in your intake manifold it's pointless unless you port out your intake manifold. I saw a kid with a 60mm tb or something on his Honduh once and when you opened the plate and looked at the manifold there was this wall of metal. So he had a 60mm tb with a 45mm opening. Sure it made you faster emoji

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ajcfalcon	Apr-18-05 01:11 PM
Member since Nov 22nd 2003 1104 posts,

#88428, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 5

Hey,
i have an afx 55mm and i was considering selling it and getting a 60mm because i got my intake manifold ported to ~59mm. I guess i should stick with the 55mm emoji

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a_miller_76	Apr-18-05 01:14 PM
Donating 2GNT member 9515 posts,

#88429, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 6

Originally posted by ajcfalcon
Hey, i have an afx 55mm and i was considering selling it and getting a 60mm because i got my intake manifold ported to ~59mm. I guess i should stick with the 55mm emoji

Yup, until you go turbo.

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ajcfalcon	Apr-18-05 01:46 PM
Member since Nov 22nd 2003 1104 posts,

#88431, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 7

well in that case im glad you posted this man!

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turbo8u	Apr-18-05 01:49 PM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#88432, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 7

yea all this VE this, VE that doesnt really matter to a boosted car

a 60mm throttle body will flow more air, so if you're making any decent power...i wouldnt stick with a 55mm for to long

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

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cougar694u	Apr-19-05 03:24 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3381 posts,

#88455, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 9

Originally posted by turbo8u
yea all this VE this, VE that doesnt really matter to a boosted car a 60mm throttle body will flow more air, so if you're making any decent power...i wouldnt stick with a 55mm for to long

Having a throttle body too big can hurt overall performance, so unless you seriously changed the air flow characteristics inside your engine, I wouldn't use anything bigger than 55mm throttle body.

I'd say that a turbo is 'seriously changing the air flow characteristics' of your motor.

I figured if people had a formula they could read, then they'd understand them. This is more relational to stock, but should even hold true with mild mods.

~Luke
Facebook
1969 Cougar - 11.91 - 380HP
2007 GSXR 750
1999 OZ - SOLD - 15.26 NA - 14.71 on 75 shot

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WickedESi	Apr-19-05 05:43 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3090 posts,

#88461, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 10

Yeah, this really only applies to N/A.

Joel Baldridge, ASE Certified Master Technician, Audi Certified Expert Technician

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a_miller_76	Apr-19-05 05:48 AM
Donating 2GNT member 9515 posts,

#88462, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 11

Originally posted by WickedESi
Yeah, this really only applies to N/A.

Yes it does. But there are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many newbs on here that think bigger is better no matter what. Like that guy with the 8 injectors, 70mm tb, and dual 3" exhaust on a NT car. You CAN NOT tell him that he's got a fucked up set-up because he believes what he wants to believe.

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DarkOne	Apr-19-05 05:55 AM
Donating 2GNT member 14955 posts,

#88464, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 12

So volumetric efficiency of a turbo motor has no bearing on its power production? Riiiiiight...

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
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Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

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a_miller_76	Apr-19-05 06:01 AM
Donating 2GNT member 9515 posts,

#88465, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 13

Originally posted by DarkOne
So volumetric efficiency of a turbo motor has no bearing on its power production? Riiiiiight...

Yeah but isn't the posters math based of NT statistics? I understand that VE is important in all internal combustion engines, but I'd think blowing 15psi into an engine as opposed to being NA would change your TB CFM requirement drastically.

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turbo8u	Apr-19-05 07:24 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#88470, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 13
Apr-19-05 07:25 AM by turbo8u

Originally posted by DarkOne
So volumetric efficiency of a turbo motor has no bearing on its power production? Riiiiiight...

no one said that choad.

what we're saying is, when the engine is being fed boost, VE rises to 120 or 150 or even 200%, air flow through the throttle body at 80% VE (naturally aspirated), and airflow at 200% VE are going to be entirely different. we didnt say anything about power persay. double the VE, and you effectively double the engines size...so yea, more ve = more powah.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

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DarkOne	Apr-19-05 07:58 AM
Donating 2GNT member 14955 posts,

#88473, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 15

Originally posted by turbo8u

Originally posted by DarkOne So volumetric efficiency of a turbo motor has no bearing on its power production? Riiiiiight...

no one said that choad. what we're saying is, when the engine is being fed boost, VE rises to 120 or 150 or even 200%, air flow through the throttle body at 80% VE (naturally aspirated), and airflow at 200% VE are going to be entirely different. we didnt say anything about power persay. double the VE, and you effectively double the engines size...so yea, more ve = more powah.

Thank you for clearing that up for the benefit of all those people who don't know better.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)

Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

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silverarrow	Apr-19-05 07:38 AM
Donating 2GNT member 178 posts,

#88471, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 0

Well, is 55mm going to cost bottom end enough to effect the car's use as a daily driver? I have a MSD Blaster coil, MSD 8.5mm wires, new NGK plugs and a short-ram by AEM, and am looking for the next step before exhaust. Since I use my car as a daily driver, am I better off getting the 52mm port by Concept Illusions to maintain low-end power, or can I go for broke and get the 55mm bore?

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DarkOne	Apr-19-05 07:57 AM
Donating 2GNT member 14955 posts,

#88472, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 17

Originally posted by silverarrow
Well, is 55mm going to cost bottom end enough to effect the car's use as a daily driver?

Oh please. This is like asking if your plug wires are going to net you a power gain.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)

Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

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a_miller_76	Apr-19-05 10:32 AM
Donating 2GNT member 9515 posts,

#88481, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 18

Originally posted by DarkOne

Originally posted by silverarrow Well, is 55mm going to cost bottom end enough to effect the car's use as a daily driver?

Oh please. This is like asking if your plug wires are going to net you a power gain.

I love how now that you're not a mod you let all that anger fly instead of bottling it up LOL

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ajcfalcon	Apr-19-05 11:08 AM
Member since Nov 22nd 2003 1104 posts,

#88482, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 17

dude, get the 55. i noticed a BIG difference in top end, and especially throttle response. i didnt feel a loss in low end power AT ALL.. but then again i have a lot more mods than you. Get the 55, if you dont you will want to later.

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silverarrow	Apr-19-05 08:09 AM
Donating 2GNT member 178 posts,

#88478, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 0

Originally posted by cougar694u
Go above that and you kill low end because of reduced velocity, go below that you starve the engine for air at top end.

I never said I was going to run 13s with my car with nothing but a sack of rice. All I am asking is, if the quote above is true, will my car be affected by 55mm as opposed to 52mm? I am taking this one small step at a time, so yeah, I won't be netting any major power gains anytime soon (I also plan on staying NA). I am doing this step-wise and therefore have immediate concerns (driving in stop and go traffic) and long term concerns (is this one mod worth it in the end when everything is eventually completed).

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cougar694u	Apr-19-05 10:26 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3381 posts,

#88480, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 21

Originally posted by silverarrow
...is this one mod worth it in the end when everything is eventually completed...

Yes, just do it. If you're gonna pay to get a 52mm, just take that extra step and get a 55mm.

~Luke
Facebook
1969 Cougar - 11.91 - 380HP
2007 GSXR 750
1999 OZ - SOLD - 15.26 NA - 14.71 on 75 shot

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CustomGS	Apr-19-05 12:16 PM
Member since Jul 15th 2004 668 posts,

#88483, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 21

Originally posted by silverarrow I am taking this one small step at a time, so yeah, I won't be netting any major power gains anytime soon (I also plan on staying NA).

Now theres a bright idea, should i even ask why he wants to stay NA.
F***ING WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY!!!!!! emoji

Chris
---------------------------------------

98 Eclipse GS 5 spd- sold
95 Camaro Z28
64.5 Mustang 302 3spd

Originally posted by DR1665
Sometimes, you don't need to pull away to win. You just need to show them they have nowhere to run.

Originally posted by Nine5eclipse03
No, but one time i tried to pee over a car, and pooped my pants.

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cougar694u	Apr-20-05 03:46 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3381 posts,

#88511, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 23

Originally posted by CustomGS

Originally posted by silverarrow I am taking this one small step at a time, so yeah, I won't be netting any major power gains anytime soon (I also plan on staying NA).

Now theres a bright idea, should i even ask why he wants to stay NA. F***ING WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY!!!!!! emoji

I plan on staying NA. What's wrong with that?

~Luke
Facebook
1969 Cougar - 11.91 - 380HP
2007 GSXR 750
1999 OZ - SOLD - 15.26 NA - 14.71 on 75 shot

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a_miller_76	Apr-20-05 03:56 AM
Donating 2GNT member 9515 posts,

#88512, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 24

Originally posted by cougar694u

Originally posted by CustomGS

Originally posted by silverarrow I am taking this one small step at a time, so yeah, I won't be netting any major power gains anytime soon (I also plan on staying NA).

Now theres a bright idea, should i even ask why he wants to stay NA. F***ING WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY!!!!!! emoji

I plan on staying NA. What's wrong with that?

Have you driven a boosted car? Not a boosted 2gnt necessarily, but a boosted car in general? There's no comparison bro.

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cougar694u	Apr-20-05 04:41 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3381 posts,

#88513, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 25

Originally posted by a_miller_76
Have you driven a boosted car? Not a boosted 2gnt necessarily, but a boosted car in general? There's no comparison bro.

I've driven everything from my brother's 540 HP mustang to a VR-4 to a GS-T to a stock 420a. My point was simply that it depends on what he/she is trying to do, or wants to do, with their car. It's a matter of preference and choice. I don't want to turbo my car, ^^^^ doesn't want to turbo theirs either.

Maybe they're intimidated by the install of a turbo kit, but who fuckin cares?

~Luke
Facebook
1969 Cougar - 11.91 - 380HP
2007 GSXR 750
1999 OZ - SOLD - 15.26 NA - 14.71 on 75 shot

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a_miller_76	Apr-20-05 05:30 AM
Donating 2GNT member 9515 posts,

#88515, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 26

I was just curious dude. A lot of guys who've never experienced REAL horsepower think that a modded 2gnt is "fast" when it's no where close being NT. The fastest NT is still like 14.9 or something which isn't really that fast. Not saying I could come close, and Todd is a fucking awesome driver, but in the grand scheme of things it isn't that fast.

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turbo8u	Apr-20-05 06:44 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#88518, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 27

NA, 2GNT, and FAST....are not allowed in the same sentence unless its covered in sarcasm

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

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Ryan_Hes	Apr-20-05 07:32 AM
Old School 2GNTer 3450 posts,

#88519, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 28
Apr-20-05 07:32 AM by Ryan_Hes

Defintely true - Investing in any power adders on a 420A Eclipse aside from turbo is a waste of money and time.

Take it from someone who is on their second Eclipse, and has already tried the first route... it doesn't even compare to a turbocharged setup. Day and night.

______________________________

Ryan
IRyanHester@Hotmail.com

'03 Mazda 6s

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BlackMagic	Apr-20-05 09:24 AM
Donating 2GNT member 1243 posts,

#88521, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 29

yea i was thinking about going NA, but then you read all the posts about people going NA and almost spending as much money on their motors, and they're not even getting 200whp, if you're going for all out performance, turbo is the way to go, don't blow it all going NA, look how much this guy put into his motor, and how little power he's getting out of it http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=32&topic_id=1711&mode=full

_____________________________________

http://www.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=1133
*form follows function*

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97whitESi	Apr-20-05 10:54 AM
Member since Mar 17th 2004 1334 posts,

#88524, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 30

Originally posted by BlackMagic
yea i was thinking about going NA, but then you read all the posts about people going NA and almost spending as much money on their motors, and they're not even getting 200whp, if you're going for all out performance, turbo is the way to go, don't blow it all going NA, look how much this guy put into his motor, and how little power he's getting out of it http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=32&topic_id=1711&mode=full

uhhhh, ever consider nitrous? thats NA....

2005 Legacy GT Ltd, Garnet Red Pearl
speak softly and spool a big turbo

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BlackMagic	Apr-20-05 01:41 PM
Donating 2GNT member 1243 posts,

#88527, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 31

Originally posted by 97whitESi

Originally posted by BlackMagic yea i was thinking about going NA, but then you read all the posts about people going NA and almost spending as much money on their motors, and they're not even getting 200whp, if you're going for all out performance, turbo is the way to go, don't blow it all going NA, look how much this guy put into his motor, and how little power he's getting out of it http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=32&topic_id=1711&mode=full

uhhhh, ever consider nitrous? thats NA....

well it's NA in the sense of not having a turbo, but nitrous is still considered a "power adder", but yea im sure nitrous can be very effective, but turbo is more efficient power source.

_____________________________________

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DegreE	Apr-23-05 06:42 AM
Member since Jul 04th 2004 303 posts,

#88626, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 30

okay,

look at my mod list...

whats an ideal TB size for me? 55mm?

<--This is our god... god decides our fate. We shall not upset our god. God can and will ruin our lives if we were to upset him.

OBX 4-1 Ceramic Coated Headder, EGR Block-off kit, Howell 30% Underdrive pulley, EBay Cold-Air Intake, Holley Air Mass CatBack Exhaust System: 2.5" pipe w/ 5" tip

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SilverBullet20g	Apr-23-05 07:06 AM
Member since Sep 25th 2004 558 posts,

#88627, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 28

Originally posted by turbo8u
NA, 2GNT, and FAST....are not allowed in the same sentence unless its covered in sarcasm

New quote for me....Thanks Turby

_____________________________________
Scott
90' GSX, 06' Effo SSL

(parting out 95 GS)

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turbo8u	Apr-24-05 07:26 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#88648, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 34

Originally posted by SilverBullet20g

Originally posted by turbo8u NA, 2GNT, and FAST....are not allowed in the same sentence unless its covered in sarcasm

New quote for me....Thanks Turby

have you ever had a NT 2gnt want to race you? LOL! its beyond embarassing... its like brrrringggg bahhhhh dinggg bahhhh. OWNED.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

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CustomGS	Apr-20-05 09:50 AM
Member since Jul 15th 2004 668 posts,

#88523, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 24

Originally posted by cougar694u

Originally posted by CustomGS

Originally posted by silverarrow I am taking this one small step at a time, so yeah, I won't be netting any major power gains anytime soon (I also plan on staying NA).

Now theres a bright idea, should i even ask why he wants to stay NA. F***ING WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY!!!!!! emoji

I plan on staying NA. What's wrong with that?

Absolutely nothing wrong with staying NA...If you dont want a fast car..I dont want to shit on anyones hopes and dreams,and there are a few built 420a's making some good power (at the crank) without forced induction. But, Cost effectiveness goes out the window and the hp#'s are nowhere near worth it. I would say that 99% of this board feel the same. I respect the work that is put into all motor 2G's but i will never respect the power capability of it.

Chris
---------------------------------------

98 Eclipse GS 5 spd- sold
95 Camaro Z28
64.5 Mustang 302 3spd

Originally posted by DR1665
Sometimes, you don't need to pull away to win. You just need to show them they have nowhere to run.

Originally posted by Nine5eclipse03
No, but one time i tried to pee over a car, and pooped my pants.

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cougar694u	Apr-20-05 11:39 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3381 posts,

#88525, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 36

Originally posted by CustomGS

Originally posted by cougar694u

Originally posted by CustomGS

Originally posted by silverarrow I am taking this one small step at a time, so yeah, I won't be netting any major power gains anytime soon (I also plan on staying NA).

Now theres a bright idea, should i even ask why he wants to stay NA. F***ING WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY!!!!!! emoji

I plan on staying NA. What's wrong with that?

Absolutely nothing wrong with staying NA...If you dont want a fast car..I dont want to shit on anyones hopes and dreams,and there are a few built 420a's making some good power (at the crank) without forced induction. But, Cost effectiveness goes out the window and the hp#'s are nowhere near worth it. I would say that 99% of this board feel the same. I respect the work that is put into all motor 2G's but i will never respect the power capability of it.

I'm not doing it to be fast, I've already got a fast car. My 2gnt is a toy to play with.

~Luke
Facebook
1969 Cougar - 11.91 - 380HP
2007 GSXR 750
1999 OZ - SOLD - 15.26 NA - 14.71 on 75 shot

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Kaoz78	Apr-20-05 07:06 PM
Member since Dec 21st 2003 407 posts,

#88550, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 21

Originally posted by silverarrow
I never said I was going to run 13s with my car with nothing but a sack of rice.

Sigged.

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WheatKing	Apr-28-05 06:28 AM
Old School 2GNTer 133 posts,

#88821, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 0

Originally posted by cougar694u
This maybe a possible repost, but I thought it'd be helpful since a ton of people go back and forth between 55's, 60's, and a 57. 49mm TB flows 252 cfm 52mm TB flows 283 cfm 55mm TB flows 317 cfm 60mm TB flows 377 cfm At 8200 RPM a 122 cubic inch engine will need 290 cfm at 100% volumetric effiency, using the formula ((Max RPM/2)*Displacement)/1728. Rule of thumb is to go 10% over because a naturally aspirated engine can go above 100% volumetric efficiency because of cam overlap, header design, etc. Go above that and you kill low end because of reduced velocity, go below that you starve the engine for air at top end. 110% is volumetric efficiency is 319 cfm It came from here: http://www.allpar.com/neon/performance.html but it applies to us just the same.

i beg to differ with this..

you fail to realize that VE is also dependant on the pieces that FEED THE CYLINDERS..

so... even 10% extra.. you have to take into account, your air filter, your throttle plate.. turbulance.. friction losses..

besides.. your only moving the torque curve.. you only lose power if your bench racing with a dyno sheet.. dyno's lie.. stop watches are a better indicator of power

ever flow an intake manifold without a TB on it.. how much you wanna bet it chokes at about 225CFM..

our engines are *similar* to a neon engine.. but VERY different with regards to the heads, the manifolds and just about all the little things that make a difference in regards to flow.

the turbo guys get away with making more power because they compress the air.. NA guys don't have it soo easy.

there is a reason the fastest NA car is only making about 170hp or so.. and it's got nothing to do with the size of the throttle body.. or the cam.. or the port work.. or the header

There is no magic bullet.. until you figure out the systems your dealing with.. no amount of bolting crap on will help unless you get extremely lucky.

-- DSM Junkie --
4 - 1G talons
4 - Avenger/sebrings
1 - Jeep to tow em home when they break

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BlackMagic	Apr-28-05 06:40 AM
Donating 2GNT member 1243 posts,

#88822, "RE: 55mm throttle body is optimum for our motors"
In response to Reply # 39

Originally posted by WheatKing
besides.. your only moving the torque curve.. you only lose power if your bench racing with a dyno sheet.. dyno's lie..

yea when you're on a dyno, you don't want to look for max power, you want to look for the largest area under the curve, if you know what i mean, so everyone when you go to the dyno next time, know your calculus!

_____________________________________

http://www.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=1133
*form follows function*

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