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Subject: "About balancing the rotating assembly." Previous topic | Next topic
powelldsApr-04-05 06:05 PM
Member since Jul 06th 2003
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#87772, "About balancing the rotating assembly."




          

I'm taking my things in tomorrow to get it balanced. I know I bring the crank and the rods, but do they need the pistons or bearings?? Also, I asked in my last post about what the main and rod journals should read when they are miked so I know whether I need different size bearings. Oh, one more thing, can I have them put the rings on my pistons and install them later on by myself?? Anything else I'm overlooking? Thanks in advance.
~Jeffo


Hey, have you seen my tail lights? Yeah, well get used to looking at them.

  
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Replies to this topic
RE: About balancing the rotating assembly., 96NTeclipse, Apr-04-05 06:23 PM, #1
RE: About balancing the rotating assembly., 2point4, Apr-04-05 06:32 PM, #2
      RE: About balancing the rotating assembly., powellds, Apr-04-05 08:30 PM, #3
      RE: About balancing the rotating assembly., cougar694u, Apr-05-05 02:43 AM, #4
      RE: About balancing the rotating assembly., SilverBullet20g, Apr-05-05 05:38 AM, #5
RE: About balancing the rotating assembly., VendorAFX_Manufacturing, Apr-05-05 03:19 AM, #6
RE: About balancing the rotating assembly., Ducking_Fumbass, Apr-05-05 06:48 AM, #7
      RE: About balancing the rotating assembly., Moderatormicyek, Apr-05-05 07:02 AM, #8
      RE: About balancing the rotating assembly., cougar694u, Apr-05-05 07:22 AM, #9
           RE: About balancing the rotating assembly., 96NTeclipse, Apr-05-05 10:50 AM, #10
      RE: About balancing the rotating assembly., a_miller_76, Apr-05-05 07:22 AM, #11
      RE: About balancing the rotating assembly., SILVERNT, Apr-05-05 07:25 AM, #12
      RE: About balancing the rotating assembly., a_miller_76, Apr-05-05 07:32 AM, #13
      RE: About balancing the rotating assembly., eclipse_99rs, Apr-05-05 07:28 AM, #14
           RE: About balancing the rotating assembly., BlackMagic, Apr-05-05 10:37 AM, #15
                RE: About balancing the rotating assembly., Ducking_Fumbass, Apr-05-05 10:52 AM, #16
                     RE: About balancing the rotating assembly., SILVERNT, Apr-05-05 08:12 PM, #17
                          RE: About balancing the rotating assembly., TeamXtremeRS, Apr-05-05 08:26 PM, #18
      RE: About balancing the rotating assembly., VendorAFX_Manufacturing, Apr-11-05 05:30 AM, #19
RE: About balancing the rotating assembly., lgjhn, Apr-06-05 07:12 AM, #20
RE: About balancing the rotating assembly., Global Ruler Of All ThingsDarkOne, Apr-06-05 07:15 AM, #21
      RE: About balancing the rotating assembly., powellds, Apr-06-05 10:43 AM, #22

96NTeclipseApr-04-05 06:23 PM
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#87773, "RE: About balancing the rotating assembly."
In response to Reply # 0

          

You will need to take the pistons. just get them to grind the journals since you are rebuilding and get oversize bearings. They will recommend doing that anyway.

**********************************
Current Mods:
AEM V2 intake, MP 60mm TB, Accel 24lb injectors, Crane #12 cams,Ross forged 10:1 pistons, Eagle H-beam rods, ARP head and main studs,
Ported and polished head, Crane valve springs, PT rockers and lifters, MSD coil, Accel wires, AFX underdrive pulley,
DC sports ceramic coated header, Ebay testpipe, Apex-i N1 catback, 255 lph fuel pump, Apex-i SAFC, Spec Stage III clutch, Phantom Grip,
full Energy Suspension polyurethane bushing kit, Tokico springs and blue shocks, Russell steel braided clutch and brake lines,
17" Koning Imagines, NOS 100 hp direct port N20 kit

  
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2point4Apr-04-05 06:32 PM
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#87774, "RE: About balancing the rotating assembly."
In response to Reply # 1

          

when i was checking on balancing (actually it was for you bro, lol) they wanted the front hubs, flywheel, and udp also...chris

  
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powelldsApr-04-05 08:30 PM
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#87780, "RE: About balancing the rotating assembly."
In response to Reply # 2



          

Thanks for the input guys, anyone know about what the rod and main journals should read when measured so I know what size bearings to get?? Thanks emoji
~Jeffo


Hey, have you seen my tail lights? Yeah, well get used to looking at them.

  
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cougar694uApr-05-05 02:43 AM
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#87788, "RE: About balancing the rotating assembly."
In response to Reply # 3
 Apr-05-05 02:45 AM by cougar694u



          

Originally posted by powellds
Thanks for the input guys, anyone know about what the rod and main journals should read when measured so I know what size bearings to get?? Thanks emoji


Go get some plasti-gauge and test it with a stock rod (NEW) bearing. It'll tell you how much clearance you've got. I dunno what the actual size is, but if you use the plasti-gauge, it'll show you if you've got too much clearance. If it spun a bearing before, has any visible ridge, or anything you can feel with your finger nail or a razor blade, get the crank turned, and let the machine shop tell you which bearings to get. Since you're building the new motor, don't go cheap, have it done right.

~Luke
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2007 GSXR 750
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SilverBullet20gApr-05-05 05:38 AM
Member since Sep 25th 2004
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#87795, "RE: About balancing the rotating assembly."
In response to Reply # 2

          

Originally posted by 2point4
when i was checking on balancing (actually it was for you bro, lol) they wanted the front hubs, flywheel, and udp also...chris


Same here..My local machine shop took weight off of the udp to balance it

_____________________________________
Scott
90' GSX, 06' Effo SSL

(parting out 95 GS)

  
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VendorAFX_ManufacturingApr-05-05 03:19 AM
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#87790, "RE: About balancing the rotating assembly."
In response to Reply # 0

          

Originally posted by powellds
I'm taking my things in tomorrow to get it balanced. I know I bring the crank and the rods, but do they need the pistons or bearings?? Also, I asked in my last post about what the main and rod journals should read when they are miked so I know whether I need different size bearings. Oh, one more thing, can I have them put the rings on my pistons and install them later on by myself?? Anything else I'm overlooking? Thanks in advance. ~Jeffo Hey, have you seen my tail lights? Yeah, well get used to looking at them.



You need to take in the following:

Crank
Rods
Pistons
Pins
Rings
Rod Bears

Visit the Howell Automotive Open House August 20th, 2005. The largest gathering of Chrysler 2.0 engines on the planet.

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Ducking_FumbassApr-05-05 06:48 AM
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#87800, "RE: About balancing the rotating assembly."
In response to Reply # 6

          

Gary...

What about the flywheel, clutch disc, pressure plate, and crank pulley? Would you recommend getting them balanced individually, or as a part of the assembly?

I have never tried to keep a 420a crank pulley indexed to the crank, but I am curious if there is ever any slip between the pulley and the crank end, as it is not indexed. If it can slip, it should be balanced seperately.

I would, at the very least, have the flywheel, clutch disc, and pressure plate balanced with the rest of the rotating assembly. Just make sure that you know how everything was balanced so that it can be reassembled to the same index.

  
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ModeratormicyekApr-05-05 07:02 AM
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#87801, "RE: About balancing the rotating assembly."
In response to Reply # 7
 Apr-05-05 07:03 AM by micyek

          

Originally posted by Ducking_Fumbass

I would, at the very least, have the flywheel, clutch disc, and pressure plate balanced with the rest of the rotating assembly. Just make sure that you know how everything was balanced so that it can be reassembled to the same index.



What happens if/when you change the clutch? You have to get everything balanced together again? I Guess if you only change out the clutch disk it wouldn't be bad...but I would have to say on something as perishable as a clutch, balancing the engine with it, is kind of excessive...just my opinion though.

getty up

-kent-




'98 Talon...gone, but not forgotten

  
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cougar694uApr-05-05 07:22 AM
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#87802, "RE: About balancing the rotating assembly."
In response to Reply # 8



          

Isn't our motor internally balanced already? In which case the flywheel and drive pulley should all be center balanced anyway, am I right?

The reason I brought this up is because my brother's motor is fully balanced internally (SB Ford v8). His crank pulley and flywheel are center balanced and there's no key on the crank anymore.

They didn't didn't ask for his crank pulley or flywheel.

When I had mine balanced, I took them the crank, rods, and pistons, and I told them I had the SFI damper. They told me which weighted flywheel to get, they only go on one way.

The clutch assembly should already be balanced, at least I think it should be.

~Luke
Facebook
1969 Cougar - 11.91 - 380HP
2007 GSXR 750
1999 OZ - SOLD - 15.26 NA - 14.71 on 75 shot

  
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96NTeclipseApr-05-05 10:50 AM
Member since Oct 06th 2003
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#87822, "RE: About balancing the rotating assembly."
In response to Reply # 9

          

Originally posted by cougar694u
Isn't our motor internally balanced already?


If the engine is internally balanced from the factory, they do a lousy job of it. My machinist took a pretty good bit of metal out of the counterweights to balance it. And i forgot to say in my earlier post that they would want to balance the flywheel and crank pulley too.

**********************************
Current Mods:
AEM V2 intake, MP 60mm TB, Accel 24lb injectors, Crane #12 cams,Ross forged 10:1 pistons, Eagle H-beam rods, ARP head and main studs,
Ported and polished head, Crane valve springs, PT rockers and lifters, MSD coil, Accel wires, AFX underdrive pulley,
DC sports ceramic coated header, Ebay testpipe, Apex-i N1 catback, 255 lph fuel pump, Apex-i SAFC, Spec Stage III clutch, Phantom Grip,
full Energy Suspension polyurethane bushing kit, Tokico springs and blue shocks, Russell steel braided clutch and brake lines,
17" Koning Imagines, NOS 100 hp direct port N20 kit

  
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a_miller_76Apr-05-05 07:22 AM
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#87803, "RE: About balancing the rotating assembly."
In response to Reply # 7



          

Originally posted by Ducking_Fumbass
I have never tried to keep a 420a crank pulley indexed to the crank, but I am curious if there is ever any slip between the pulley and the crank end, as it is not indexed. If it can slip, it should be balanced seperately.


Okay I may be retarded, but if your crank pulley slips wouldn't that throw your timing off?

  
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SILVERNTApr-05-05 07:25 AM
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#87804, "RE: About balancing the rotating assembly."
In response to Reply # 11
 Apr-05-05 07:26 AM by SILVERNT

          

Originally posted by a_miller_76
Originally posted by Ducking_Fumbass I have never tried to keep a 420a crank pulley indexed to the crank, but I am curious if there is ever any slip between the pulley and the crank end, as it is not indexed. If it can slip, it should be balanced seperately.
Okay I may be retarded, but if your crank pulley slips wouldn't that throw your timing off?


since when was the timing belt driven by the crank pulley? ps/ac/alt only. Timing is driven by the crank sprocket.

and yes you're retarded

  
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a_miller_76Apr-05-05 07:32 AM
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#87806, "RE: About balancing the rotating assembly."
In response to Reply # 12



          

Originally posted by SILVERNT
Originally posted by a_miller_76
Originally posted by Ducking_Fumbass I have never tried to keep a 420a crank pulley indexed to the crank, but I am curious if there is ever any slip between the pulley and the crank end, as it is not indexed. If it can slip, it should be balanced seperately.
Okay I may be retarded, but if your crank pulley slips wouldn't that throw your timing off?
since when was the timing belt driven by the crank pulley? ps/ac/alt only. Timing is driven by the crank sprocket. and yes you're retarded


Wow I just owned myself. I don't know why I was thinking that way. Nevermind, retard moment has passed.

Stand by for the next one, it will be comin' around shortly.

  
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eclipse_99rsApr-05-05 07:28 AM
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#87805, "RE: About balancing the rotating assembly."
In response to Reply # 11

          

I think he might have been talking about the harmonic balancer/dampener.



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BlackMagicApr-05-05 10:37 AM
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#87821, "RE: About balancing the rotating assembly."
In response to Reply # 14



          

technically there is no crank pulley, that IS the harmonic balancer, when i took my block in to get bored and the rotating assembly externally and interbally balanced, they needed the crank, the sprocket, the harmonic balancer, the clutch, the flywheel, the pressure plate

_____________________________________


http://www.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=1133
*form follows function*

  
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Ducking_FumbassApr-05-05 10:52 AM
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#87823, "RE: About balancing the rotating assembly."
In response to Reply # 15

          

It's not like the spoon in the Matrix... there is a crank pulley. It just doubles as the harmonic dampener. It is not, however, a harmonic balancer. The 4G63 uses a harmonic balancer. A harmonic balancer must somehow be indexed to the rotating assembly, while a dampener does not.

  
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SILVERNTApr-05-05 08:12 PM
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#87872, "RE: About balancing the rotating assembly."
In response to Reply # 16

          

Originally posted by Ducking_Fumbass
It's not like the spoon in the Matrix... there is a crank pulley. It just doubles as the harmonic dampener. It is not, however, a harmonic balancer. The 4G63 uses a harmonic balancer. A harmonic balancer must somehow be indexed to the rotating assembly, while a dampener does not.


thank you bill

  
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TeamXtremeRSApr-05-05 08:26 PM
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#87873, "RE: About balancing the rotating assembly."
In response to Reply # 17

          

Just have your crank, rods, and pistons balanced...there its that simple..don't worry about anything else


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VendorAFX_ManufacturingApr-11-05 05:30 AM
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#88118, "RE: About balancing the rotating assembly."
In response to Reply # 7

          

Originally posted by Ducking_Fumbass
Gary... What about the flywheel, clutch disc, pressure plate, and crank pulley? Would you recommend getting them balanced individually, or as a part of the assembly? I have never tried to keep a 420a crank pulley indexed to the crank, but I am curious if there is ever any slip between the pulley and the crank end, as it is not indexed. If it can slip, it should be balanced seperately. I would, at the very least, have the flywheel, clutch disc, and pressure plate balanced with the rest of the rotating assembly. Just make sure that you know how everything was balanced so that it can be reassembled to the same index.


The pulleys are zero balanced to start with, and since they are not indexed you can't balance them to the crank, nor would you want too.

You can balance the flywheel as it is indexed to the crank.

The presure plate can go on 3 different ways, and they are made zero balanced anyway.

The clutch disc is attacted to the transmission and not the engine. Every time you release the clutch it stops in a different position.



Visit the Howell Automotive Open House August 20th, 2005. The largest gathering of Chrysler 2.0 engines on the planet.

US Small Business Administration Export Business of the Year for 2003

Visit Howell Automotive at www.howellautomotive.com

  
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lgjhnApr-06-05 07:12 AM
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#87888, "RE: About balancing the rotating assembly."
In response to Reply # 0

          

Originally posted by powellds
I'm taking my things in tomorrow to get it balanced. I know I bring the crank and the rods, but do they need the pistons or bearings?? Also, I asked in my last post about what the main and rod journals should read when they are miked so I know whether I need different size bearings. Oh, one more thing, can I have them put the rings on my pistons and install them later on by myself?? Anything else I'm overlooking? Thanks in advance. ~Jeffo Hey, have you seen my tail lights? Yeah, well get used to looking at them.


Crank Mains: 2.0469" to 2.0475"
Crank Rod Journal: 1.8894" to 1.8900"
You can get most specs from here:
http://www.ecanfix.com/users/manualcd/gift/dsm/2gnt_420a_overhaul.pdf
You may want to burn yourself a copy and have it with you for reference when you go to the shop.
You can have em put the rings on, but these need to be checked for end-gap tolerence in the finished cylinders before they're installed. Again, burn yourself a copy of the above and peruse through it.

  
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Global Ruler Of All ThingsDarkOneApr-06-05 07:15 AM
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#87889, "RE: About balancing the rotating assembly."
In response to Reply # 20



          

Originally posted by lgjhn
You can get most specs from here: http://www.ecanfix.com/users/manualcd/gift/dsm/2gnt_420a_overhaul.pdf


Also available at http://www.2gnt.com/2gnt_420a_overhaul.pdf

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powelldsApr-06-05 10:43 AM
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#87902, "RE: About balancing the rotating assembly."
In response to Reply # 21



          

Thanks for all of the help!! Soon my baby will live again.
~Jeffo


Hey, have you seen my tail lights? Yeah, well get used to looking at them.

  
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