Ok, recently I spent about $2,200 in my cylinder head and such, and after taking my time, it's finally done. I had it together once before, but the OBX cam gears I bought, (big mistake) were crap, so I sold 'em and got the red Fidanza's, they are lighter and don't feel so cheap. Oh yeah, the timing marks are right on the money too. I got it started that day, and she rips and runs beautiful, I need to fine tune it in portland at Torque Freaks soon though. So, here's exactly what I have done......

Head resurfaced, race head port and polish job, Rev standard size racing valves, Crower 2 cams with Crower springs and retainers, Fidanza cam gears, ported and polished intake manifold, OBX fuel rail, 60mm throttle body (thinking about going back to 55mm), AEM cai, OBX header, high flow cat, Magnaflow Catback, Howell AFX Race computer, AFX underdrive pulley, short throw shifter, MSD stock replacement coil (going to go with the Screamin Deamon soon probably), MSD Spark plug wires, NGK Platinum plugs (should I just use the NGK VPower plugs? I heard platinum is harder to heat up), and a Ground wire system. As for performance mods, I believe that's it. Everything is red and black since I had plenty of time to wait for pats. I plan to put a new 2.2 shortblock in this spring with Eagle rods, JE 10.5 or custom 11:1 pistons not sure yet, I already have to run 93 octane because of the computer. Melling oil pump, you know, basically brand new goodies for the bottom. I'm planning to stay all motor and make it fast.

Tonight I found that my throw out bearing is making a little noise, I'm thinkin Clutchmasters stage 3? What do ya'll think? I will be posting pictures of the rebuild and the finish.

1992 Plymouth Laser
-Bone stock for now.

I eat emo kids for breakfast

1995 Eagle Talon (SOLD)
72' SuperBeetle
72' Standard Beetle
56' Deluxe Beetle

hey, im going with all engine also, where did you find 11-1? all i found was 12.5, and 10.5 at howel. 12.5 is almost to much for my uses. and will that afx work with a 96 NT? i already have 2 fuel rails, and a 70mm mustang TB ready (summer project). at the same time im going to do TRUE dual exhaust. good luck, hope to hear from you guys again

______________________________________________
the real skill isnt in the wrenching, its in the tuning and sorting out of the details once the nuts and bolts are tightened up.



70mm mustang TB
2 fuel rails (8-injectors)...in hand but not yet installed.
funtional chrome vette sidepipes (true dual exhaust)
75 shot nitrous
4000 watt stereo
and bunch of minor mods on her now.

Get 11:1 compression. why are you running Crower 2's if youre staying NA..

good point lol true duals would entail 2 exhaust manifolds.
if you actually did this... this is what ppl on this board would do to you

-EE

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/>

Originally posted by THEBALLIN1
good point lol true duals would entail 2 exhaust manifolds. if you actually did this... this is what ppl on this board would do to you -EE

---

2012 2500HD LML

"By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
Second, by imitation, which is easiest;
and third by experience, which is the bitterest." - Confucius

I'll be blunt - if you think your 420A will be fast and N/A you are fucking in dreamland. Have fun. I don't care how fast it "feels" or sounds because of the aggressive compression or cam gears - without a turbo it is a joke.

______________________________

Ryan
IRyanHester@Hotmail.com

'03 Mazda 6s

-----------------------------------

My DSM registry.......Powered By Exile Racing
VW= The joy of driving
DSM= The frustration of fixing

The wonders of 2gnt chat:

"By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
Second, by imitation, which is easiest;
and third by experience, which is the bitterest." - Confucius

Umm...all motor should be 2.5L bored/12:1 cr/stripped interior/full race head/Crower 3's/MS/methanol-water injection/quad tb intake manifold/long tube header/2.5" exhaust/testpipe/quaife/udp/55mm tb/15 wheels with race slicks, good suspension, clutch and other tidbits and a good driver etc....uh low 14's/ high 13's.(*cowers in corner*) add rotate and bolt engine sideways, bolt up NVT 1500/ford rear/custom rear or gsx driveshaft..never pop the hood..um high 12's! (*runs and hides*)

I eat emo kids for breakfast

1995 Eagle Talon (SOLD)
72' SuperBeetle
72' Standard Beetle
56' Deluxe Beetle

I know what you're saying...but when you step back and look at the big picture. Supras, 350Z's, 3000GT's, TransAm's......Non-turbo Eclipses. Which one is out of place and why? Well it is the non-turbo eclipse, because it is pathetically slow, can be beaten by my mom's V8 Jeep and it just can't hang!

I feel bad saying it on the board...and I'm not trying to be a dick - but the 2.0 420A just isn't gonna do it!

______________________________

Ryan
IRyanHester@Hotmail.com

'03 Mazda 6s

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX


"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

2.0 420A in the Eclipse; I should have been more precise.

______________________________

Ryan
IRyanHester@Hotmail.com

'03 Mazda 6s

I would personally discourage the "all motor" path, in regards to the 420A in the 3000lb Eclipse...because it has been proven to be a monumental waste of time/money. im all for the road less traveled and everything, but you have to be realistic sometimes too. if you do EVERYTHING to your car all-motor that is possible(which includes running such high compression that it will barely be streetable....cause that is what you will HAVE to do to see any descent gains) you most likely wont even come close to the 240whp mark...and will have a TON of money sank into an, at BEST, high 14-sec car. I understand some people cant afford a turbo, in that case the all-motor general mods, and even N2O, or more than practical. but unless you want a trailered car, tons of money invested, and still run 14's....id HIGHLY suggest going with a turbo. you WILL thank me later.


1997 Silver RS
Built
T3/T4 BB Turbo
20psi
Most current 1/8th mile time: 8.1@93mph 2.015 60'
1996 Black Supra TT
2004 Silver Snake

"By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
Second, by imitation, which is easiest;
and third by experience, which is the bitterest." - Confucius

I understand where you are coming from...its just that "most" people that ive saw get real into the "all motor build" thing, have expectations that are WAY too high. i understand wanting to build something all-motor, but it just doesnt make "economic" sense to me, in these cars. in a civic hatch or something, yes...cause you can motor swap, they are light, etc. its just that, a 3k turbo kit...and just 5psi will be quite a bit faster than an all-motor setup with twice that amount of money in it. im not trying to "hate" on an all-motor build or anything at all. i like anything thats modified to BE faster, and not just LOOK faster. ive just saw tons of guys on here over the years expecting to be able to build some high 200hp monster all-motor....and it just isnt going to happen. I say goodluck to however you try to make your car faster though.


1997 Silver RS
Built
T3/T4 BB Turbo
20psi
Most current 1/8th mile time: 8.1@93mph 2.015 60'
1996 Black Supra TT
2004 Silver Snake

Yeah if you wana go all motor...

Sell your car and buy a neon

vote for your choice of body style for Bluie!! http://www.cardomain.com/id/bluemooneclipse

Originally posted by Nitrous_RS1997
I understand where you are coming from...its just that "most" people that ive saw get real into the "all motor build" thing, have expectations that are WAY too high. i understand wanting to build something all-motor, but it just doesnt make "economic" sense to me, in these cars. in a civic hatch or something, yes...cause you can motor swap, they are light, etc. its just that, a 3k turbo kit...and just 5psi will be quite a bit faster than an all-motor setup with twice that amount of money in it. im not trying to "hate" on an all-motor build or anything at all. i like anything thats modified to BE faster, and not just LOOK faster. ive just saw tons of guys on here over the years expecting to be able to build some high 200hp monster all-motor....and it just isnt going to happen. I say goodluck to however you try to make your car faster though.

"By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
Second, by imitation, which is easiest;
and third by experience, which is the bitterest." - Confucius

Well I'd like to thank Driggs for being basically the only one to post in this thread that wasn't a dick. To answer your earlier question what he probably is concidering "race valves" are stainless steel undercut sqirl polished valves, which you have in +1mm form.

People want different things out a car. Turbo is the easiest way to make horsepower on a small engine. But some people like to do it differently. Not everyone is looking for a 400hp beast. Some people want a decent street car that's NA. Because you want a turbo doesn't mean everyone does. Maybe getting the car into the 14's would make the guy happy. Next time you might want to find out his defination of fast before you go slamming the guys plans.

The phrase sell it and buy a turbo is one of the reasons 2GNT was founded, don't forget that when you are responding.



Exile Racing Technologies: http://www.exileracing.com
Assasin of Joy

Okee dokee, talk about a day late and a buck short to responding back to this thread, sorry guys, I forgot I even posted this. First off, I want to thankevery body for their input and advice I thought about it all. As some of you may know, within the past couple of months I have recently decided to go the turbo route (imagine that). The all motor route was the path I wanted to take just because not too many people have a reasonably quick na 2gnt. My hopes of the car being fast were not unrealistic in what you all may have been thinking, I ran a 15.8 the last time I was at the track before I did all of this to the head rebuild. ( I had quite a bit of mods when I ran that too). Well, after that I did the head rebuild and I never got to see what it ran after that. I really wanted to reach the 14 sec spot after doing all I could as an na car. That was my goal, but plans changed, I got a little more money, time, and planned to rebuild the bottom end, so I figured, "I am spending quite a bid of money to just be a 14 sec. car NA. Why not be turbo'd with a solid setup?" So, here I am. Funny, I looked this up when I remembered and read all of what everyone and it was pretty much what I thought about before I found it. Thanks though fellas, for real. I'm just about to do the bottom end so I can get ready to boost. I really wish I had gone to the track with what I have done though. 15.8 before mods, 15.?? after. Hmmmm? It would have been pretty good for an na chunky ass eclipse though. I did have a lot of fun rebuilding it though and am looking foward to yanking the motor back out to finish it. You all will be helping me along the way too. Thnx~Jeffo

Yeah, I just might have to hold off for a little while and take it to the track N/A. just to see what my time is. Who knows, my gut still wants to stay N/A, just because anybody can slap a turbo on and get a crap load of HP. It is true though, if you want the real HP, you have to rebuild, you can't just buy a turbo like a lot of people say and have a lot of hp for the same price, the stock motor needs money into it, and then the turbo still costs more. I really do want to stay all motor, even if I never break 14's (which probably will not happen). You see, I need another car to seriously get into building my 420a into an all motor beast, because she's still my transportation. If I did stay NA, I would only be at 10.5 compression for the bottom end, balanced assembly, a nice clutch and light flywheel, LSD, a major diet, and some other stuff that I can't think of right now. It is a pain to come in here with plans of going N/A when there are so many people who think it's a dumb and unrealistic (in their opinion) idea. I am not discouraged by it though, but it has made me think about how easy things will be and how much money is spent vs. the results I will get. Everyone knows that for the penny, turbo is a great way to get power for cheap, instead of going all motor and spending a lot of $ and not a lot of results. I don't know, I might still go all motor, if I do, I am not going to stroke it or buy a 2.4, I want the 2.0, (would the long rod kit be good for all motor? Havn't read into what I could rev to). The reason is, the car is a 2l engine, and I would love to see the full capabilities of a somewhat street drivable N/A car. Let me hear what ya'll think, and oh, sorry about bringing dead posts back to life, it's boring in the early a.m. and you know how that gets. The main reason I wanted to turbo is to shut up my damn Honduh friends and thier blipity blah exhaut systems.

If N/A makes you happy...then do it. Just realize the money factor versus the benefits... end of story.

______________________________

Ryan
IRyanHester@Hotmail.com

'03 Mazda 6s

Well, yeah, abviously you would spend a lot of money going the N/A route, but you have to go that route first if you go turbo too. (I'm saying about building). So, you actually end up spending more going turbo. The power you get from spending that much is way more vs. if you just went N/A.

The way I see it, the only difference between a "stage 3" turbo car and an all motor car (aside from the turbo components obviously) is going to be the compression ratio you run and the size of your injectors. And even then, there are those of us building 10.5:1CR turbo cars as we speak. If you will be happy with ~230hp for ever, then just buy the kit and maintain the car, but if you want to push deep into 300hp territory and beyond, you're going to need to rebuild that motor anyways, so why not see what you can do with it, right?

Even the Hester can agree with that (although I think this thread grates on him for some reason).

Yes, by the way, what is the main problem area with a turbo'd 10.5:1 compression car, tuanability?? Like, here's a question I have been wondering about for a long time and just never asked. What's the difference between a 10.5:1 running, say 10lbs. of boost, and a 8.8:1 running 15lbs. of boost. You see what I'm saying? If they put out the same Hp, what's the diff?

Originally posted by DR1665Even the Hester can agree with that (although I think this thread grates on him for some reason).

______________________________

Ryan
IRyanHester@Hotmail.com

'03 Mazda 6s

All the head work is there to help the whole system work more efficiently. And NA car is the best example of head work being a good thing. Having driven in both the high rpm range is wher ethat head work really frees up the the top end horsepower. Drive a car with a stock head, then one that's been ported... The ported ones pulls you all the way to red line. The stock ones starts to fall off. Hell, dig up the old dyno charts from Todd and Me at the '03 Shoot Out and you can see the numbers. If you are turbo you can mask things like this by forcing the head to flow. But you're going to make your turbo work harder to do it.

I would not build a low comp turbo car for myself. It is definately an easier set up to tune. The tuning window is narrower at the same boost level compared to a lower comp motor, but the power output is higher. I would rather run higher compression and have more off boost power, and a lower max boost pressure to get to the same power output.

Any car you want to make power out of... It's all in the tuning.



Exile Racing Technologies: http://www.exileracing.com
Assasin of Joy

I'm gonna stay on the turbo side of the fence until someone shows me a high compression N/A eclipse that runs 14s or even 15s for more than 6 months.

Until we have a piston part number that doesn't have to be custom ordered every time, a cam setup that works, and the luck to have a drivetrain that doesn't spontaneously combust for strange reasons, I just cant get on the all-motor bandwagon.

Yet how many successful turbokits do we have floating around? In the hundreds I think...

Well, yes yes yes, I have seen the light, I guess I'm goin turbo after all. Just bought a new setup to run 15lbs with a spec 3 clutch. Feels good. Now I just gotta fish up that extra $3k that's lying around here somewhere, "where'd I put that"?

.....Hey, have you seen my new tail lights? Yeah, cool huh, get used to looking at them.

I believe choosing a path--turbo or n/a--is ultimately a personal choice. Each route has its positives and negatives, and each route has its power potential. I don't think either route is better than the other; it's right if it serves YOUR goal. Whether you choose all-motor, nitrous or turbo, make sure you know exactly what it is that you want to achieve with each platform. Don't mind me, I'm just an old fart (compared to most of you )

___________
Kon C

"Sometimes, a man has to do what a man has to do."

I would have to agree, you might be older, but wise sir. hehe budwiser??
Hello,

.....Hey, have you seen my new tail lights? Yeah, cool huh, get used to looking at them.

--smartass

My personal goal is to have thousands of dollars invested in the engine, except for a turbo that is- and run high 14's at BEST. SWEET! Listen to that badass loping idle... "Yeah man this thing traps 95mph...it's unreal. Not to mention this baby is abrely streetable...28:1 compression ratio doood"

--/smartass

kidding....kidding...to each their own.

______________________________

Ryan
IRyanHester@Hotmail.com

'03 Mazda 6s

I woulrd have believed you if you said 26:1. Come on, 28:1?? Get real man. lol.

Hello,

.....Hey, have you seen my new tail lights? Yeah, cool huh, get used to looking at them.

$500 nitrous kit and wallah 200 whp. At the same time you are spraying buy another block rebuild and bullet proof it. Blow your shit up! Install new block and sell the nitrous kit. Use the money from the n2o towards the turbo kit that you are about to buy. Thats my plan.

myspace.com/coastiecobb

Sounds Like fun, I was looking at the Venom recluse kit, it's like a NOS sneeky pete. That could keep me a little happy until I get my new motor and turbo. Hmmmm???


Hey, have you seen my new tail lights? Yeah, cool huh, get used to looking at them.