2GNT.com Forums - Viewing topic - Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals.

Home Site Background Info & Specs Mods & Tech Info CAPS Part Reviews Donate 2GNT Stickers

Printer-friendly copy

2 Users in Chat

Top

2GNT Technical

Performance/Engine

topic #80572

View in linear mode

Subject: "Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."

Previous topic | Next topic

CODE4	Sep-16-04 01:06 PM
Member since Nov 23rd 2003 2552 posts,

#80572, "Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."

Decent dome for an OEM turbo motor. 2.4 liters sucka!

---

2012 2500HD LML

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Replies to this topic

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., Ducking_Fumbass, Sep-14-04 05:58 PM, #1

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., Administrator

CODE4, Sep-14-04 06:09 PM, #2

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., DegreE, Sep-14-04 09:17 PM, #3

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., turbo8u, Sep-15-04 07:37 AM, #4

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., Team

ner947, Sep-16-04 03:20 PM, #5

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., injendsm, Sep-14-04 06:06 PM, #6

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., mrj82, Sep-15-04 03:14 AM, #7

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., Global Ruler Of All Things

DarkOne, Sep-15-04 07:23 AM, #8

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., MrSlick, Sep-15-04 07:39 AM, #9

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., turbo8u, Sep-15-04 08:17 AM, #10

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., 97whitESi, Sep-15-04 08:21 AM, #11

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., Global Ruler Of All Things

DarkOne, Sep-15-04 09:34 AM, #12

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., turbo8u, Sep-15-04 09:38 AM, #13

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., DarKReaLity, Sep-15-04 09:55 AM, #14

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., turbo8u, Sep-15-04 10:01 AM, #15

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., DarKReaLity, Sep-15-04 10:09 AM, #16

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., turbo8u, Sep-15-04 10:11 AM, #17

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., Global Ruler Of All Things

DarkOne, Sep-15-04 10:18 AM, #18

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., turbo8u, Sep-15-04 10:32 AM, #19

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., Global Ruler Of All Things

DarkOne, Sep-15-04 10:57 AM, #20

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., turbo8u, Sep-15-04 10:58 AM, #21

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., Ducking_Fumbass, Sep-16-04 07:38 AM, #22

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., Global Ruler Of All Things

DarkOne, Sep-16-04 08:06 AM, #23

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., turbo8u, Sep-16-04 08:15 AM, #24

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., Ducking_Fumbass, Sep-16-04 08:21 AM, #25

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., turbo8u, Sep-16-04 08:35 AM, #26

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., Global Ruler Of All Things

DarkOne, Sep-16-04 08:58 AM, #27

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., turbo8u, Sep-16-04 09:19 AM, #28

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., Ducking_Fumbass, Sep-16-04 10:50 AM, #29

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., Global Ruler Of All Things

DarkOne, Sep-16-04 11:03 AM, #30

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., BlueMoonEclipse, Sep-16-04 11:43 AM, #31

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., turbo8u, Sep-16-04 12:07 PM, #32

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., Global Ruler Of All Things

DarkOne, Sep-16-04 12:32 PM, #33

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., turbo8u, Sep-16-04 12:41 PM, #34

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., Administrator

admin2, Sep-16-04 01:05 PM, #35

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., turbo8u, Sep-16-04 03:18 PM, #36

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., Ducking_Fumbass, Sep-16-04 04:43 PM, #37

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., turbo8u, Sep-17-04 06:08 AM, #38

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., Administrator

admin2, Sep-17-04 06:47 AM, #39

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., Ducking_Fumbass, Sep-16-04 01:10 PM, #40

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., injendsm, Sep-16-04 04:11 PM, #41

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., Administrator

admin2, Sep-16-04 04:27 PM, #42

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., injendsm, Sep-16-04 05:03 PM, #43

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., GhEttOrAiD, Sep-17-04 09:01 AM, #44

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., turbo8u, Sep-17-04 09:11 AM, #45

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., injendsm, Sep-17-04 09:24 AM, #46

RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals., soldier101, Sep-19-04 05:47 PM, #47

Ducking_Fumbass	Sep-14-04 05:58 PM
Member since Aug 30th 2004 1147 posts,

#80573, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 0

Domes aren't necessarily good. Especially when they just drop the piston so that it sits below the deck to compensate for the dome, which they only did to make a non-interference motor. I'd like to hear your version of why they are so good, other then "they are cheap and hold a lot of power."

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

CODE4	Sep-14-04 06:09 PM
Member since Nov 23rd 2003 2552 posts,

#80575, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 1

Originally posted by Ducking_Fumbass
Domes aren't necessarily good. Especially when they just drop the piston so that it sits below the deck to compensate for the dome, which they only did to make a non-interference motor. I'd like to hear your version of why they are so good, other then "they are cheap and hold a lot of power."

I said nothing about why the piston is so good. Nor am I inferring it. I am only saying that when I opened the box I expected to see a relatively flat piston with valve reliefs.

---

2012 2500HD LML

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

DegreE	Sep-14-04 09:17 PM
Member since Jul 04th 2004 303 posts,

#80580, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 2

Nice, "I love the smell of new engine parts in the morning".

<--This is our god... god decides our fate. We shall not upset our god. God can and will ruin our lives if we were to upset him.

OBX 4-1 Ceramic Coated Headder, EGR Block-off kit, Howell 30% Underdrive pulley, EBay Cold-Air Intake, Holley Air Mass CatBack Exhaust System: 2.5" pipe w/ 5" tip

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

turbo8u	Sep-15-04 07:37 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80598, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 1

moly coated ring lands to prevent micro welding of the top ring land, full floating pins, moly coated skirts. cast or not they can handle the cylinder pressures of 500+hp...so whats the problem? if the shoe fits, wear it.

the ramp is a design so that the a/f charge mixes more as it hits the ramp, its not such a great idea with it being lower than the deck but they dont have detonation problems so the ramp works out just fine.

badass pistons, i got a set for like 102$ on ebay and turned around and sold them for 225, lol

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX

"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

ner947	Sep-16-04 03:20 PM
Donating 2GNT member 3168 posts,

#80688, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 1

I remember reading somewhere, at some point, that a piston that is roughly shaped as if it would mate with the top of the combustion chamber will provide good quenching. Correct me if I'm wrong.

2016 WRX STi Limited (current)
2001 A4 1.8tqms (donated)
1991 GVR4 #1933 (sold)
old.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=218 (dismantled)

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

injendsm	Sep-14-04 06:06 PM
Donating 2GNT member 6844 posts,

#80574, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 0

Originally posted by CODE4

Decent dome for an OEM turbo motor. 2.4 liters sucka!

thats gonna be my shit soon.

www.gregsorrells.com

http://ubanimator.com>

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

mrj82	Sep-15-04 03:14 AM
Member since Jun 17th 2003 283 posts,

#80583, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 6

You should polish those beams before you put it all together imo.

Originally posted by Uberingram
I will burn you for not searching...then the stabbing.

I got the sonic if you got the boom.

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

DarkOne	Sep-15-04 07:23 AM
Donating 2GNT member 14955 posts,

#80596, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 7

They're still cast, and that makes me uncomfortable. I don't care how much power they've taken in an SRT4, we don't drive SRT4's.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)

Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

MrSlick	Sep-15-04 07:39 AM
Member since Jul 22nd 2002 1120 posts,

#80599, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 8

Originally posted by DarkOne
They're still cast, and that makes me uncomfortable. I don't care how much power they've taken in an SRT4, we don't drive SRT4's.

Absolutely...

The SRT-4 PCM will control the boost and timing also to limit the load on the pistons... If you put them in a motor with our PCM... haha, who knows what will happen!

Also, the reason they made the pistons with the raised dome, but dropped down into the block is to maintain a nice consistent distance from the top of the piston to the top of the combustion chamber... emoji

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Megasquirt powered 420A
Custom turbo system

http://www.ms-custom.com

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

turbo8u	Sep-15-04 08:17 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80604, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 9
Sep-15-04 08:24 AM by turbo8u

Originally posted by MrSlick
The SRT-4 PCM will control the boost and timing also to limit the load on the pistons... If you put them in a motor with our PCM... haha, who knows what will happen!

the srt-4 that dynoed 500+whp on stock internals i DOUBT was using the stock boost control. the boost and timing are general, and besides....who's in control of your motor lee? the pcm? or your megasquirt, lol

control your own timing and fuel, but these pistons and rods will handle 500+hp, regardless of pcm.

"CFD analysis and dyno testing showed that the ski-jump-shaped dome on the piston was desirable for performance, so compression ratio was reduced to 8.1:1 by decreasing the piston compression height to lower piston position in the cylinder. Both versions are Mahle eutectic castings with Mahle Grafal skirt coating, but the turbo version also has a hard-anodized top ringland, a moly-coated 1.2mm top ring and has a shorter skirt, contributing to the 335-gram weight."

so as you can see, the reason the piston is dropped down in the bore farther...is its just another way to drop compression.

edit:

"the "ski ramp" piston dome encourages tumble in the cylinder, which improves idle stability and light-load performance. The best wide-open throttle performance, though, usually comes from a piston that comes as close as possible to the flat edges of the combustion chamber (called quench pads). The gas trapped between the piston and the quench pads gets squished out, flying directly into the flame kernel where combustion is starting. This added turbulence speeds flame propagation and reduces the chance of knock. Of course, a taller piston would raise compression, so the ski ramp would have to be replaced with a dish, but that's do-able."

-scc

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

97whitESi	Sep-15-04 08:21 AM
Member since Mar 17th 2004 1334 posts,

#80605, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 10

turbododge pistons are cast, and they can hold shitloads of power....
its just that they were designed from the start for a turbo application

2005 Legacy GT Ltd, Garnet Red Pearl
speak softly and spool a big turbo

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

DarkOne	Sep-15-04 09:34 AM
Donating 2GNT member 14955 posts,

#80608, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 10

Originally posted by turbo8u
the srt-4 that dynoed 500+whp on stock internals i DOUBT was using the stock boost control. the boost and timing are general, and besides....who's in control of your motor lee? the pcm? or your megasquirt, lol control your own timing and fuel, but these pistons and rods will handle 500+hp, regardless of pcm.

Nope. it's all in the tuning and the factory management system of the SRT, which is vastly superior to ours. I will bet money that the first person that actually gets a 2.4L running with these internals will break ringlands just like a factory piston, and never make more than 350wHP. The boost control has very little to do with it - its all in that ECU's ability to model the current conditions, provide the right amount of fuel, and keep the timing exctly where it needs to be to prevent knock, not just react to knock.

They may be able to take 500wHP on an SRT4, or in an ideal world, but in the less-than-ideal 2gnt environment, i won't beleive a lick of this until someone proves me wrong.

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

turbo8u	Sep-15-04 09:38 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80609, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 12
Sep-15-04 09:46 AM by turbo8u

Originally posted by DarkOne
I will bet money that the first person that actually gets a 2.4L running with these internals will break ringlands just like a factory piston, and never make more than 350wHP.

how much do you want to bet? 100$?

edit: timing control is a huge part of keeping detonation at bay, but its certainly not the only deciding factor on how much power the pistons and rods can take. of course with a ghetto ass tune for 500+whp in a 2gnt with srt-4 internals, it will probly blow, but do it right and its proven to work.

edit 2: tell me why the ringlands on a 2gnt break. they are weak and thin, thats why. the srt-4's are not and were specifically designed to be stronger in that area.

you're gunna get emoji

if you really do bet

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

DarKReaLity	Sep-15-04 09:55 AM
Donating 2GNT member 934 posts,

#80610, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 13
Sep-15-04 09:55 AM by DarKReaLity

i'll bet $20 that Dino is right. Eagle rods's are the way to go and JE forged pistons and total seal rings are also the way to go. besides what are your HP goals on the SRT-4 stuff?

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

turbo8u	Sep-15-04 10:01 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80611, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 14
Sep-15-04 10:03 AM by turbo8u

Originally posted by DarKReaLity
i'll bet $20 that Dino is right. Eagle rods's are the way to go and JE forged pistons and total seal rings are also the way to go. besides what are your HP goals on the SRT-4 stuff?

i'll take you up on that bet too.

total seals suck

i dont have srt-4 internals but my goal is just north of 550whp...custom rods and pistons though

edit: eagle rods arent any better than the t2 rods for the more than 350whp dino is talking about. eagle rods are more expensive as well. shot peened and cryo treated t2 rods would be strong as hell

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

DarKReaLity	Sep-15-04 10:09 AM
Donating 2GNT member 934 posts,

#80612, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 15
Sep-15-04 10:10 AM by DarKReaLity

yeah more expensive,but more reliable. and explain why total seal suck? i never had a problem with them. many Drag racers use them.

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

turbo8u	Sep-15-04 10:11 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80613, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 16
Sep-15-04 10:12 AM by turbo8u

Originally posted by DarKReaLity
yeah more expensive,but more reliable.

how so, if they'll both take it like a bitch they'll both take it like a bitch. they're both full floating and come to think of it....the srt-4 has oil gally's in the rods for the rod bearings, the eagle rods do not. they both have the same size rod bolts as well.

not more 'reliable'....

edit: people have had oil control problems with the total seals, and ive seen NO PROOF they offer any benefit whatsoever over conventional rings. talk to corbin about total seals.

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

DarkOne	Sep-15-04 10:18 AM
Donating 2GNT member 14955 posts,

#80614, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 13
Sep-15-04 10:27 AM by DarkOne

Originally posted by DarkOne I will bet money that the first person that actually gets a 2.4L running with these internals will break ringlands just like a factory piston, and never make more than 350wHP.

Originally posted by turbo8u
how much do you want to bet? 100$?

Deal.

Originally posted by turbo8utell me why the ringlands on a 2gnt break. they are weak and thin, thats why. the srt-4's are not and were specifically designed to be stronger in that area.

The ringlands are approximately the same thickness. The only difference is that addition of an anodized "skirt" around the upper ring. They're even made by the same company, probably of the same materials. It is my devout opinion that they will break if run with a 2gnt management system, due to our lack of adequate knock control, and the half-ass tuning most people do. If I can kill a set of JE's, anyone can kill a set of cast SRT4 slugs.

Regardless, i would like nothing more than to lose this $100 and have someone show me i'm wrong. Someone should do it and shut me up.

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

turbo8u	Sep-15-04 10:32 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80615, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 18
Sep-15-04 10:38 AM by turbo8u

Originally posted by DarkOne
It is my devout opinion that they will break if run with a 2gnt management system, due to our lack of adequate knock control, and the half-ass tuning most people do. If I can kill a set of JE's, anyone can kill a set of cast SRT4 slugs.

ok so the bet is on. as soon as a 2gnt with srt-4 internals hit 351whp you owe me 100 smackers emoji

knock control? got that covered. knock is a product of crappy tuning anyway, in all truth.

edit: so the real reasoning you think these 'cast pistons' wont handle the power is because of detonation and timing control? 350whp is nothing dude, some 100 octane, decent wot timing numbers, good tune, water injection and the right amount of cold boost and it's smooth sailin.

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

DarkOne	Sep-15-04 10:57 AM
Donating 2GNT member 14955 posts,

#80616, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 19
Sep-15-04 10:57 AM by DarkOne

Originally posted by turbo8u
so the real reasoning you think these 'cast pistons' wont handle the power is because of detonation and timing control? 350whp is nothing dude, some 100 octane, decent wot timing numbers, good tune, water injection and the right amount of cold boost and it's smooth sailin.

I was thinking more along the lines of pump gas, daily driven stuff. Race gas is a wholly different matter.

Oh well. Whatever.

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

turbo8u	Sep-15-04 10:58 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80617, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 20

Originally posted by DarkOne

Originally posted by turbo8u so the real reasoning you think these 'cast pistons' wont handle the power is because of detonation and timing control? 350whp is nothing dude, some 100 octane, decent wot timing numbers, good tune, water injection and the right amount of cold boost and it's smooth sailin.

I was thinking more along the lines of pump gas, daily driven stuff. Race gas is a wholly different matter. Oh well. Whatever.

pump gas is fine. water injection is a mother fucker :-D

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Ducking_Fumbass	Sep-16-04 07:38 AM
Member since Aug 30th 2004 1147 posts,

#80650, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 21

Originally posted by turvo8u
moly coated ring lands to prevent micro welding of the top ring land, full floating pins, moly coated skirts. cast or not they can handle the cylinder pressures of 500+hp...so whats the problem? if the shoe fits, wear it.

the ramp is a design so that the a/f charge mixes more as it hits the ramp, its not such a great idea with it being lower than the deck but they dont have detonation problems so the ramp works out just fine.

badass pistons, i got a set for like 102$ on ebay and turned around and sold them for 225, lol

Sure, the pistons can handle the in-cylinder pressure of 500HP. I'm quite certain that they can not handle much more in-cylinder pressure then 400HP when any knock is involved. Knock can very easily double the in-cylinder pressure. Know what that would do to an SRT-4 piston? Me neither. Better yet, let's see about pre-ignition. Pre-ignition can increase the in-cylinder pressure by 80X. I think that some people here are bad enough at getting their motors in tune that pre-detonation is a distinct possibility.

If you are in love with the ski ramp on your pistons, consider these:

http://www.howellautomotive.com/Howell/Store/catalog/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_117_230&products_id=702

No idea who makes them or what they are made of. They could be made out of spraypainted birdshit for all I know...

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

DarkOne	Sep-16-04 08:06 AM
Donating 2GNT member 14955 posts,

#80651, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 22

Originally posted by Ducking_Fumbass
pre-detonation is a distinct possibility.

Pre-detonation is a misnomer. It's either detonation or preignition, two distinctly different occurances with two disctinct results. It is never both.

Originally posted by Ducking_Fumbass
consider these: http://www.howellautomotive.com/Howell/Store/catalog/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_117_230&products_id=702 No idea who makes them or what they are made of.

They're JE's. They are made of aluminum, just like any other JE. Howell sure is on the ball...

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

turbo8u	Sep-16-04 08:15 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80652, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 22

Originally posted by Ducking_Fumbass
If you are in love with the ski ramp on your pistons,

lol, i simply was explaining what it was FOR. personally i like the dished piston...like the ones i have.

Originally posted by Ducking_Fumbass Sure, the pistons can handle the in-cylinder pressure of 500HP. I'm quite certain that they can not handle much more in-cylinder pressure then 400HP when any knock is involved.

detonation is called the hammers of hell for a reason. not even forged piston can take that abuse for long, this has nothing to do with the ability of the internals to handle 500+ hp. keep knock at bay, and they'll take the power like a bitch.

Originally posted by Ducking_Fumbass Knock can very easily double the in-cylinder pressure. Know what that would do to an SRT-4 piston? Me neither. Better yet, let's see about pre-ignition. Pre-ignition can increase the in-cylinder pressure by 80X. I think that some people here are bad enough at getting their motors in tune that pre-detonation is a distinct possibility.

pre-detonation and knock are two different things like dino said.

lets not throw knock and pre-detonation into this equation though, obviously its a factor...but certain measures can be taken to avoid both very effectively on pump gas.

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Ducking_Fumbass	Sep-16-04 08:21 AM
Member since Aug 30th 2004 1147 posts,

#80653, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 24

Yeah, with a better form of fuel management then 99% of the people here are willing to run. Simply put, without some form of actual electronic fuel management that actually takes intake temp into consideration, these pistons will not be able to avoid the hammers of hell.

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

turbo8u	Sep-16-04 08:35 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80654, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 25

Originally posted by Ducking_Fumbass
Yeah, with a better form of fuel management then 99% of the people here are willing to run. Simply put, without some form of actual electronic fuel management that actually takes intake temp into consideration, these pistons will not be able to avoid the hammers of hell.

bullshit.

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

DarkOne	Sep-16-04 08:58 AM
Donating 2GNT member 14955 posts,

#80655, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 25

This is exactly what i have been trying to get across. I don't think these internals will handle knock significantly better than a factory 2gnt piston. Their biggest benefit (aside from the extra .4L you'd have from putting these and a 2.4 block under your hood) is the lowered compression and big, beefy rods.

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

turbo8u	Sep-16-04 09:19 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80657, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 27
Sep-16-04 09:20 AM by turbo8u

Originally posted by DarkOne
I don't think these internals will handle knock significantly better than a factory 2gnt piston.

even though the factory 2gnt piston is higher compression? i dont think so, but like i said, no piston can withstand detonation for very long, even forged.

Originally posted by DarkOne
Their biggest benefit (aside from the extra .4L you'd have from putting these and a 2.4 block under your hood) is the lowered compression and big, beefy rods.

"lowered compression"

DING DING DING, knock supression's good friend is low compression.

i challenge you guys to experiment with water injection, it slaughters knock, VERY good WOT timing numbers on my car at high boost on cat piss 91 octane and NO KNOCK...i know first hand.

i think you guys are just to scared of knock, its funny

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Ducking_Fumbass	Sep-16-04 10:50 AM
Member since Aug 30th 2004 1147 posts,

#80666, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 28

It takes a fair amount of detonation to harm a forged piston. It doesn't take much to destroy a cast piston, though. The lower compression only serves to give a bigger "Fuck it, it's close enough" window to your tuning. Next, if that is your tuning mantra ("fuck it, it's close enough"), then you will need nothing short of pistons made from unobtanium.

I bet that if 100 turbo 420a's were to measure knock, they would find that they are knocking at least part of the time in high gear/high boost scenarios.

The advantages of these pistons is that they are cheap. The downside is that somebody who will cheap out on pistons will probably not get a fuel management setup that will keep said cheap pistons alive for a long time.

And if someone is going to to go through the trouble and expense to build a block, and make the 2.4 fit in their car, wouldn't you say that it is worth it to get some forged slugs?

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

DarkOne	Sep-16-04 11:03 AM
Donating 2GNT member 14955 posts,

#80667, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 28
Sep-16-04 11:04 AM by DarkOne

Originally posted by turbo8u
"lowered compression" DING DING DING, knock supression's good friend is low compression.

Sure, the same motor at the same boost level on the same turbo, one with 10:1 and one with 8:1, the higher compression motor will knock, all other things being equal. Do you know any 2gnt'ers with a built motor than run 6psi? People don't look at it as knock prevention, they look at it as a step to run higher boost with minimal tuning. You are correct in that it helps prevent knock, but a 9.6:1 motor at 10psi and a 8.6:1 motor at 18, which will knock first? Hard to say, isn't it?

Originally posted by turbo8u
i think you guys are just to scared of knock, its funny

If i were scared of knock, it wouldn't have cost me 4 JE pistons, 2 headgaskets, 1 stocker, .010 off my crank, .040 total out of my block, and a buttload of money. They're only car parts.

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

BlueMoonEclipse	Sep-16-04 11:43 AM
Member since Sep 25th 2003 1352 posts,

#80675, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 30

Well the thing is Dino...im prety sure these boys know by now that the way to go is to ditch the 2gnt ecu, im prety sure with standalone engine management we could recreate the superb results of Srt-4 guys

Something to think about.......hmmmmm 2k invested in engine management to get yah started (ok some of us resort to cheaper fuel/engine management..but i dont plan to run more than 20 pounds for quite a while, and yes im on 8.0 compression forged .020 pistons..) vs. 2k invested in new engine parts (and engine management after that)....

Actualy i gota investigate then MS board about ignition retard enabling in the code of MJolt (or ms2) i read something about it a while back

vote for your choice of body style for Bluie!! http://www.cardomain.com/id/bluemooneclipse

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

turbo8u	Sep-16-04 12:07 PM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80679, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 30
Sep-16-04 12:10 PM by turbo8u

Originally posted by DarkOne
People don't look at it as knock prevention, they look at it as a step to run higher boost with minimal tuning.

not me...

....if it were up to me i'd run 9.6:1 forged pistons and high boost all day long. tuning is fun as hell anyway, thats what its all about.

Originally posted by DarkOne You are correct in that it helps prevent knock, but a 9.6:1 motor at 10psi and a 8.6:1 motor at 18, which will knock first? Hard to say, isn't it?

many many factors here...a lot of things can induce knock, octane level, sharp edges in the intake track or piston dome, red hot spark plug tips, etc...

let me ask you this....which is better, high compression turbo, or low compression turbo? thats like asking an o.g v8 dragger which is better long rod or short rod. the fact is they both work, but obviously you need to know what you are doing. advantages of high comp turbo prove through in cars like the old f1 hondas for example. low compression turbo just enables a larger margin for error yes but i doubt this is the reason most people buy forged internals...so they can half ass the tuning. besides, a turbo raises the effective compression ratio of an engine anyway, so the real difference comes down to like 1-2psi....big woop. it is hard to say though, but from experience....the 8.6:1 (2.0) will knock at 18psi, same turbo, same octane

a 8.6:1 2.4L with 18psi from say, a 16g...would detonate on 91 octane. 3 good ways to avoid detonation...either retard timing (make less power) race gas (harder to ignite) or in-cylinder-intercooling (i.e- methanol or alcohol/water injection) i would certainly push 18psi into a 8.6:1 2.4L on 91 octane, because i'd have it set up to avoid knock. propane injection, h202, etc...all ways to avoid knock on pump gas.

If i were scared of knock, it wouldn't have cost me 4 JE pistons, 2 headgaskets, 1 stocker, .010 off my crank, .040 total out of my block, and a buttload of money. They're only car parts.

well you sir are owned by knock then. maybe you should just take off the turbo and call it a day emoji

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

DarkOne	Sep-16-04 12:32 PM
Donating 2GNT member 14955 posts,

#80680, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 32
Sep-16-04 12:33 PM by DarkOne

I'll well aware of what causes knock. I still think water/alcohol/methanol injection is a bandaid for bad tuning.

The fact remains that i do not trust these internals because they are cast, and a cast piston will NEVER take knock as well as a forged unit will. Unless you're a very competent tuner, you will break these things. You do not have the same window of safety with a cast piston as you do with a forged piston.

Sure, all the knock prevention in the world can go a long way, how else do you think Steve Anderson made 500wHP on a stock motor SRT4? The EMS is designed to prevent knock from ever occuring.

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

turbo8u	Sep-16-04 12:41 PM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80681, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 33

Originally posted by DarkOne
I still think water/alcohol/methanol injection is a bandaid for bad tuning.

well then you needed a band aid for your old motor

BOOOOOMMMM!!!

lol, tell that to the top fuel funny cars who inject methanol like a mother fucker...band aid my ass....all's fair in love and war

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

admin2	Sep-16-04 01:05 PM
Old School 2GNTer 543 posts,

#80683, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 34

Let's not degrade this to the level of cheap insults, shall we?

Running methanol or nitromethane alone is one thing. Using it on a gasoline car as an additive is another. Stay on topic.

_________________________________________
I'm the guy that bans you for breaking the rules. I am the troll killer. I am the law here.

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

turbo8u	Sep-16-04 03:18 PM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80687, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 35

Originally posted by admin2
Let's not degrade this to the level of cheap insults, shall we? Running methanol or nitromethane alone is one thing. Using it on a gasoline car as an additive is another. Stay on topic.

show me a cheap insult.

running methanol or water injection is not an "additive" its not any different than a nitrous sprayer or propane injection. like i said, all is fair in love and war...and i think everything ive posted has been "on topic"...

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Ducking_Fumbass	Sep-16-04 04:43 PM
Member since Aug 30th 2004 1147 posts,

#80694, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 36

Originally posted by turbo8u
well then you needed a band aid for your old motor

That sounded like a cheap shot to me. Cheaper then his new motor, anyways...

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

turbo8u	Sep-17-04 06:08 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80706, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 37

Originally posted by Ducking_Fumbass

Originally posted by turbo8u well then you needed a band aid for your old motor

That sounded like a cheap shot to me. Cheaper then his new motor, anyways...

that wasnt a cheap shot. if you read between the lines, im saying if he had a h20 injection system on his car, he wouldnt have been knocking and he wouldnt have blown his motor.

anyway, like admin2 said...if you're looking to push the limits, my suggestion is to talk to forward motion. they are hardcore mopar guys and they also have a very, very good set of rods and pistons that are more than you'll ever need.

the srt-4 pistons and rods at 12psi from like a 20g, would be incredibly fun shit, and with the right precautions and good tuning...can make great power without detonating

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

admin2	Sep-17-04 06:47 AM
Old School 2GNTer 543 posts,

#80707, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 38
Sep-17-04 06:48 AM by admin2

Originally posted by turbo8u

Originally posted by Ducking_Fumbass

Originally posted by turbo8u well then you needed a band aid for your old motor

That sounded like a cheap shot to me. Cheaper then his new motor, anyways...

that wasnt a cheap shot. if you read between the lines, im saying if he had a h20 injection system on his car, he wouldnt have been knocking and he wouldnt have blown his motor.

Actually, i don't think anything could have helped my motor at the point it blew. a 15:1 A/F ratio due to my Accel DFI panicing will kill just about anything when its at max load and max boost.

And yes, i felt that was a cheap shot, but whatever. Let's get back to discussion.

_________________________________________
I'm the guy that bans you for breaking the rules. I am the troll killer. I am the law here.

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Ducking_Fumbass	Sep-16-04 01:10 PM
Member since Aug 30th 2004 1147 posts,

#80684, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 34
Sep-16-04 01:13 PM by Ducking_Fumbass

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

injendsm	Sep-16-04 04:11 PM
Donating 2GNT member 6844 posts,

#80689, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 40

so the basic consensus here is to drop the extra couple hundred dollars and go with some forged internals for a 2.4l block even if you planned on using a megasquirt setup on the srt4 internals? if you only planned to boost about 12psi i would think that the srt4 internals could handle it fine but im still learning about this all and im willing to learn all that i can so please enlighten me a little bit more so that i can be sure that i am on the same page as you all.

www.gregsorrells.com

http://ubanimator.com>

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

admin2	Sep-16-04 04:27 PM
Old School 2GNTer 543 posts,

#80692, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 41

If you're trying to push the limits and go for all you can, run forged. if you're just looking to make reliable power on a 2.4L block, run the SRT4 stuff. That's the basic jist of it... in my opinion anyway. Some will argue, hence the massive derailment of this thread.

_________________________________________
I'm the guy that bans you for breaking the rules. I am the troll killer. I am the law here.

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

injendsm	Sep-16-04 05:03 PM
Donating 2GNT member 6844 posts,

#80695, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 42

Originally posted by admin2
If you're trying to push the limits and go for all you can, run forged. if you're just looking to make reliable power on a 2.4L block, run the SRT4 stuff. That's the basic jist of it... in my opinion anyway. Some will argue, hence the massive derailment of this thread.

well see im only plannin to push about 12psi on an hrc s20g for a while which im thinking might get me to my goal of 300whp so i dont think i would have too much of a problem with the srt4 internals.

www.gregsorrells.com

http://ubanimator.com>

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

GhEttOrAiD	Sep-17-04 09:01 AM
Member since Oct 22nd 2002 1226 posts,

#80709, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 0

are the SRT4's supposed to be like... a "special edition/"limited run of some sort? or are they made to be mass produced very cheaply?

i think that would answer some of the questions... it seems to me that the best technologies are discovered accidentally, overbuilt unintentionally... like... what.. 'silly putty' or something?

FS: 2.5" Test Pipe 25 shipped

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

turbo8u	Sep-17-04 09:11 AM
Member since Jun 15th 2003 10552 posts,

#80710, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 44
Sep-17-04 09:12 AM by turbo8u

Originally posted by GhEttOrAiD
are the SRT4's supposed to be like... a "special edition/"limited run of some sort? or are they made to be mass produced very cheaply? i think that would answer some of the questions... it seems to me that the best technologies are discovered accidentally, overbuilt unintentionally... like... what.. 'silly putty' or something?

the srt-4 pistons are OEM, they are made to be replacements for stock parts, just like any other oem part.

mopar turbo engines have always been very stout though

edited because of fat fingering

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

injendsm	Sep-17-04 09:24 AM
Donating 2GNT member 6844 posts,

#80711, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 44

they are 53 bucks for each piston/rod combo from bob kise which would be 212 roughly.

www.gregsorrells.com

http://ubanimator.com>

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

soldier101	Sep-19-04 05:47 PM
Old School 2GNTer 3862 posts,

#80769, "RE: Pictures of OEM SRT-4 internals."
In response to Reply # 46

I like my srt-4

turbo8u: "jiggle jiggle then vroom vroom pshhhh"
-Mike Pruett
2gnt member# 976
MOPAR Stage 2
SRTForums.com member #37 (Yeah, I signed up when it first came out, and ended up getting one, cool huh?)
"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
- General George Patton (1885-1945)

Report This Post to Admin

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Top

2GNT Technical

Performance/Engine

topic #80572

Previous topic | Next topic

Generated in 0.104 seconds, executing 108 queries.