#78677, "For those who thinks a header and TB don't do anything...."
you need kicked in the nuts hard...
one year ago mods- CAI, bored TB, greddy header, crane #12 cams, apexi catback, AFX UDP and CFDF clutch. -full interior
ran 10.21@69.55 with a 2.41 60'
fast forward to today mods- CAI, Crane #12 cams, apexi catback, AFX UDP and CFDF clutch - GUTTED interior...no carpet, no headliner, no pass or rear seats, no spare...
ran 10.35@67.63
only difference being the header and bored TB...
so the car being 100lbs lighter and nearly 2 tenths slower...hmm...so for those of you who say headers and TB do nothing...
#78678, "RE: For those who thinks a header and TB don't do anything...." In response to Reply # 0
i need to head to the track asap imo, i should be laying down low 10's in the 1/8th
Aem Cold Air AFX 55mm TB Fidanza Cam Gears NGK Wires AFX UDP Greddy Header Gutted Cat Greddy Evo Catback Energy Suspension MMI Eibach Sportlines Tokico Blues...always more to come
#78682, "RE: For those who thinks a header and TB don't do anything...." In response to Reply # 0
Originally posted by Justin99RS so the car being 100lbs lighter and nearly 2 tenths slower...hmm...so for those of you who say headers and TB do nothing...
I are no0b. Tell me why, after dropping a 100lbs (which should theoretically drop a tenth in the quarter by itself), and adding a header and TB you were almost two tenths slower and I need a kick in the junk for saying a header and TB do nothing?
I don't say those mods are worthless though. I say that spending $500 on a brand new, name brand header is a waste, when you can be within 5whp with a used Pacesetter (all other things equal). It's not that those two mods are useless, it's just that they are not going to give you magic HP numbers by themselves. They are necessary parts of a comprehensive airflow program. Used with an intake, headwork, cams, and an exhaust, they let you make the most of the tuning you do. Can't build an all motor car without them. You can, however, get too crazy with the size of your TB if you are NA and actually lose power due to lower intake velocity (mostly bottom end, but still). As long as you put some decent thought into your goals and build accordingly, they're both worthwhile mods imo. I personally have both.
#78699, "RE: For those who thinks a header and TB don't do anything...." In response to Reply # 3
yes DR..i was saying that i removed the header and TB, shaved 100lbs and was slower....and i wasn't aiming this at the few who have been saying that they are a needed mod for airflow...this was directed at those who swore it was worthless all in itself...
#78706, "RE: For those who thinks a header and TB don't do anything...." In response to Reply # 4
Originally posted by Justin99RS yes DR..i was saying that i removed the header and TB, shaved 100lbs and was slower....and i wasn't aiming this at the few who have been saying that they are a needed mod for airflow...this was directed at those who swore it was worthless all in itself...
Ah! And you see, because I had been up for 21 hours when I read it, I didn't catch on that you had removed them the second run. Meh.
#78720, "RE: For those who thinks a header and TB don't do anything...." In response to Reply # 7
I don't think 1/4 mile times reflect accurately how mods make changes to power, esp when we are talking about very little power and only one or two tenths in the 1/4. Things like 60 ft times, alititude, air temps, traction, shifting, all can make for different 1/4 times. Its best to use a dyno for measuring power mods, and at least the same dyno, and roughtly same air temps and humidity on each run. That will tell the best way of what mods are doing what for the motor.
13.5 @108 MPH-2.2 60ft(stupid FWD!) S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential fuel injection) My webpage: http://eclipsed4evr.home.comcast.net -1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS-T- "Toy" -1992 Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD(SOLD) -2000 Honda CR-V(daily)
#78724, "RE: For those who thinks a header and TB don't do anything...." In response to Reply # 8
Agreed, your kinda comparring apples to oranges. You made changes to the car, but the outside temp, humidity, clutch wear, your nuances in driving could all also make as much as .08 in time.
For what it's worth though, I think a header just plain looks better than the stupid bulky stock exhaust mani.
#78765, "RE: For those who thinks a header and TB don't do anything...." In response to Reply # 8
Originally posted by XtremeRS I don't think 1/4 mile times reflect accurately how mods make changes to power, esp when we are talking about very little power and only one or two tenths in the 1/4. Things like 60 ft times, alititude, air temps, traction, shifting, all can make for different 1/4 times. Its best to use a dyno for measuring power mods, and at least the same dyno, and roughtly same air temps and humidity on each run. That will tell the best way of what mods are doing what for the motor.
He said it best.
Shawn 99 Eclipse RS Hahn Stage 2,Full built bottom end with je 8:8 and eagle rods ect..
#78783, "RE: For those who thinks a header and TB don't do anything...." In response to Reply # 11
i think that the header really does help our cars, i got the dc sport header, and after taking the test drive with it, damn did i notice a large difference in the low and mid range power, not much of a change up top, but easily worth the money especially for me since im auto. getting off the line and into the powerband is a whole hell of alot easier now. Mods: CAI, OBX exhaust, Grillcraft grills, altezzas, ard ryver g6 17's wrapped w/ falken's, VIS racing c.f hood, 2 12" kicker comp's w/pioneer h.u, streetglow blue undercars, red dash kit, indiglo guages, n other shit
#78784, "RE: For those who thinks a header and TB don't do anything...." In response to Reply # 11
i think that the header really does help our cars, i got the dc sport header, and after taking the test drive with it, damn did i notice a large difference in the low and mid range power, not much of a change up top, but easily worth the money especially for me since im auto. getting off the line and into the powerband is a whole hell of alot easier now. Mods: CAI, OBX exhaust, Grillcraft grills, altezzas, ard ryver g6 17's wrapped w/ falken's, VIS racing c.f hood, 2 12" kicker comp's w/pioneer h.u, streetglow blue undercars, red dash kit, indiglo guages, n other shit
#78785, "RE: For those who thinks a header and TB don't do anything...." In response to Reply # 11
i think that the header really does help our cars, i got the dc sport header, and after taking the test drive with it, damn did i notice a large difference in the low and mid range power, not much of a change up top, but easily worth the money especially for me since im auto. getting off the line and into the powerband is a whole hell of alot easier now. Mods: CAI, OBX exhaust, Grillcraft grills, altezzas, ard ryver g6 17's wrapped w/ falken's, VIS racing c.f hood, 2 12" kicker comp's w/pioneer h.u, streetglow blue undercars, red dash kit, indiglo guages, n other shit
#78794, "RE: For those who thinks a header and TB don't do anything...." In response to Reply # 8
Originally posted by XtremeRS I don't think 1/4 mile times reflect accurately how mods make changes to power, esp when we are talking about very little power and only one or two tenths in the 1/4. Things like 60 ft times, alititude, air temps, traction, shifting, all can make for different 1/4 times. Its best to use a dyno for measuring power mods, and at least the same dyno, and roughtly same air temps and humidity on each run. That will tell the best way of what mods are doing what for the motor.
agreed.. I mean.. Over a year.. parts could wear down.. you could need new spark plugs.. i dunno.. things change over time
#78845, "RE: For those who thinks a header and TB don't do anything...." In response to Reply # 8 Aug-11-04 10:04 AM by Keith2172
Originally posted by XtremeRS I don't think 1/4 mile times reflect accurately how mods make changes to power, esp when we are talking about very little power and only one or two tenths in the 1/4. Things like 60 ft times, alititude, air temps, traction, shifting, all can make for different 1/4 times. Its best to use a dyno for measuring power mods, and at least the same dyno, and roughtly same air temps and humidity on each run. That will tell the best way of what mods are doing what for the motor.
While all very true, a dyno still doesn't measure power to weight, gearing, how you compensate for traction, and other various things, all of which are essential to racing. Granted a 707whp car sounds awful impressive, but how sad it would be for that car to get smoked by a 200whp car cause he burned the tires and couldn't handle the car down the track. IMO I'd rather know the track time and ( more importantly ) the trap speed of a car I were going up against then the dyno numbers, tells more about the driver.
Representing the Central Cali chapter of 2GNT! (I think I'm the only member )
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